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T5 - a couple of points

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Anonymous
October 5, 2004 5:58:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hi All,

I've been reading the specs for the T5 on Palm's web site, and a
couple of points leapt out at me:

1) Absolutely no mention of battery life anywhere on the pages. So it
isn't anything to shout about - ho-hum.

2) Web Pro seems to have been dropped in favour of Blazer - wonder why
that is.

I personally think the T5 is a huge disappointment - I'll be sticking
with my T2 for the foreseeable future. The only things I'd like to add
to my T2 are better battery life, and Cobalt for real multitasking.

If the T5 is the best Palm can do a year after the T3, I have my
doubts about their future in this industry.

S.

More about : couple points

Anonymous
October 5, 2004 5:54:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

> 1) Absolutely no mention of battery life anywhere on the pages. So it
> isn't anything to shout about - ho-hum.

T5 has 1,300 mAh vs. the 900 mAh on the Tungsten T3.

> 2) Web Pro seems to have been dropped in favour of Blazer - wonder why
> that is.

So they can standardize on one browser component across their
hardware lines (Tungsten and Treo)

> I personally think the T5 is a huge disappointment - I'll be sticking
> with my T2 for the foreseeable future. The only things I'd like to add
> to my T2 are better battery life, and Cobalt for real multitasking.

The T5 is an upgrade to the Tungsten E, not the T2 or T3.

What applications do you have now, that require multitasking?

You DO realize of course, that the multitasking limitation is not
a technical limitation, but a LICENSE limitation, right? The Kadak kernel
that PalmOS is built on top of, restricts the OS to expose only one
thread, which limits what you can do with it. Palm went with the cheaper
license years ago, and they are now paying for it (pun intended).
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 6:35:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Simon, Very well put.


"Simon Long" <simon@longnews.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:891fd138.0410050058.6ffb4e01@posting.google.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I've been reading the specs for the T5 on Palm's web site, and a
> couple of points leapt out at me:
>
> 1) Absolutely no mention of battery life anywhere on the pages. So it
> isn't anything to shout about - ho-hum.
>
> 2) Web Pro seems to have been dropped in favour of Blazer - wonder why
> that is.
>
> I personally think the T5 is a huge disappointment - I'll be sticking
> with my T2 for the foreseeable future. The only things I'd like to add
> to my T2 are better battery life, and Cobalt for real multitasking.
>
> If the T5 is the best Palm can do a year after the T3, I have my
> doubts about their future in this industry.
>
> S.
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Anonymous
October 5, 2004 10:34:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Simon Long wrote:
> I personally think the T5 is a huge disappointment - I'll be sticking
> with my T2 for the foreseeable future. The only things I'd like to add
> to my T2 are better battery life, and Cobalt for real multitasking.

I have a funny feeling, now that the T5 came out and it doiesn't run
Cobalt, that maybe Palm is going to target Cobalt primarily at phones.
I would not be surprised if their first Cobalt device is a phone.
(However, I don't think Cobalt will come out ONLY on phones.)

- Logan
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 12:27:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Simon Long" <simon@longnews.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:891fd138.0410050058.6ffb4e01@posting.google.com...
> If the T5 is the best Palm can do a year after the T3, I have my
> doubts about their future in this industry.

It may not be the best, just a "hello, we're still here". I think of Windows
ME, which was basically a waste, and then XP, which was actually a pleasant
surprise after ME.
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 12:30:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Simon Long" <simon@longnews.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:891fd138.0410050058.6ffb4e01@posting.google.com...

> Hi All,
>

> 1) Absolutely no mention of battery life anywhere on the pages. So it
> isn't anything to shout about - ho-hum.

As mentioned, it goes from 900 to 1300. That is 44% increase.

With the reduced memory power draw, some improvements in processor
requirements (and power saving), then you certainly get a nice jump. All
units today are quite power hungry. My bets about a 50% increase in battery
life. Quite a amazing improvement.

>
> I personally think the T5 is a huge disappointment - I'll be sticking
> with my T2 for the foreseeable future.

I have to assume that you had a palm T1, and then when the palm T2 came out,
you instantly dropped the "old" T1? In fact, there is more new features and
stuff in the t5 over the t3, as compared to the jump from a t1 to a t2.

Further, I have two friends that have palm t2. Neither upgraded to a t3 when
it came out.

So, often we have seen a new unit, and the features are very incremental.
(and, where the units stand now..I don't see much room for improvments on
the hardware side anyway).

The new unit has improved battery life. It also have improvments in
usiablebliry, and stabliry. To me, the BEST features of the t3 was the
included software bundle. Out of the box, I am able to take my outlook
(2003...I might note!) with me. Business users, and people who need a good
pda were not disiaapoined with the t3. I is a nice unit. Anohter friend and
bussna assoicae has had his t3 for one year..and still HAS NOT learned
graffti. (you open his plam, and the "keyboard" is always on in the
graffetit area). And, yes..thus guy takes his Excel sheets, and his VERY
large list of outlook contacts everywhere.

About the ONLY downfall I can see of the new t5 is built in wifi. However,
built in wifi increase cost, ALWAYS has extra power draw. The wifi card is
thus a option. This is a close 50/50 split on this issue. Right now, a lot
of users don't need the wifi. However, as you go up the model nubmers, and
price..the t5 is in the range where wifi could be expected.

>
> If the T5 is the best Palm can do a year after the T3, I have my
> doubts about their future in this industry.

So, what model did you upgrade from when you got your t2? Did you actaully
have a t1, and then jumped to the t2? As I mentioned, I know a good number
of people that have t2, and the t3 was no reason to upgrade. The t5 is much
like a upgrade from the t1, to t2.

Another compeeling feature is the non-slider. Howerver, once again, there is
a very big split on this issue (I like my t3, and I like the slider).

I certanly hope all those people who said that if palm gets rid of the
slider, and make a hi-res model...I will buy it installaty. Those people now
have their day in the sun..and can get their dream model. Obviously, plam
listed to those people..and I hope their answers were honest. After all, the
compnay can only listen to what people are asking for. It looks like a very
vocal group killed the slider, when in fact a good many of us liked the
feature.

Some asked for duel slots, but then why does one need duel slots? Well, the
99% response was that if I have a card (like wifi), then I don't have a
place to put the files that I download etc. So, the new palm has extra
memory for this purpose. Even better is the fact that this extra memory can
be used as a drive (once again, there are all kinds of products that allow
one to use the SD memory card in this fashion, but that is NOT the default
config!). So, these little jump drives are becoming common, and adding and
making this "jump drive" feature as PART of the unit is another very good
call on palms side.

So, we got a new memory system (that don't need power). A fixed non slider
system that everyone in this news group screamed for. And, everyone screamed
for more battery life, and the new unit got that also. And, wifi is an
option.

It seems to me, that the direction of this unit was very much based on the
vocal cries in this group.


--
Albert D. Kallal
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com
http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 12:31:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:27:27 -0400, Necron 99 wrote:

> "Simon Long" <simon@longnews.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:891fd138.0410050058.6ffb4e01@posting.google.com...
>> If the T5 is the best Palm can do a year after the T3, I have my
>> doubts about their future in this industry.
>
> It may not be the best, just a "hello, we're still here". I think of Windows
> ME, which was basically a waste, and then XP, which was actually a pleasant
> surprise after ME.

I don't think its intended to be their "best." But I think it is in
appropriately named. It's a TE upgrade, not a T5.

I'd believe it as a TE upgrade. As a T3 upgrade, I'd rather have a T3. And
that's coming from someone who has stuck with a m515 because he didn't like
the sliders.

--
Derek

There is no greater joy than soaring high on the wings of your dreams,
except maybe the joy of watching a dreamer who has nowhere to land but in
the ocean of reality.
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 1:19:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <TOB8d.38598$N.1532@fe1.texas.rr.com>, Logan Shaw
<lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Simon Long wrote:
> > I personally think the T5 is a huge disappointment - I'll be sticking
> > with my T2 for the foreseeable future. The only things I'd like to add
> > to my T2 are better battery life, and Cobalt for real multitasking.
>
> I have a funny feeling, now that the T5 came out and it doiesn't run
> Cobalt, that maybe Palm is going to target Cobalt primarily at phones.
> I would not be surprised if their first Cobalt device is a phone.
> (However, I don't think Cobalt will come out ONLY on phones.)

Palm? Are you thinking PalmSource? PalmOne makes the T5. PalmSource makes
Garnet and Cobalt.

From what I hear, Cobalt's currently too big for smartphones but may be
put on a diet. So you're likely to see some new smartphones with Garnet
(Palm OS 5) toward the beginning of next year, rather than Cobalt.
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 2:08:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"David A. Desrosiers" <hacker@gnu-designs.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2004.10.05.17.54.07.957619@gnu-designs.com...
<snip>
>
> What applications do you have now, that require multitasking?
>

id like to be able to multitask email with other stuff such as calendar or
diary, its a PITA if you need to look something up to put in an email.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
October 6, 2004 10:11:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote:
>I think it is inappropriately named. It's a TE upgrade, not a T5.

And perhaps the TE was misnamed also. 'Tungsten' units were supposed to be in
the *business* line. But the TE is really more of a consumer model, as evidenced
by Target and similar stores carrying it.

>that's coming from someone who has stuck with a m515...

So in reality the T5 is really a m515 upgrade twice removed? ;) 
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 10:14:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Albert D. Kallal" <PleaseNOOOsPAMMkallal@msn.com> wrote in message news:<0wD8d.620029$M95.384018@pd7tw1no>...
> > 1) Absolutely no mention of battery life anywhere on the pages. So it
> > isn't anything to shout about - ho-hum.
>
> As mentioned, it goes from 900 to 1300. That is 44% increase.

But Palm haven't mentioned that anywhere on their own list of specs.

> With the reduced memory power draw, some improvements in processor
> requirements (and power saving), then you certainly get a nice jump. All
> units today are quite power hungry. My bets about a 50% increase in battery
> life. Quite a amazing improvement.

But don't you think that if they were indeed going to get such an
"amazing" improvement, they'd at least make a passing mention of it on
the publicity for the thing? Instead, they are making a huge fuss
about how you can use it as a USB drive (like, wow) - battery life
isn't mentioned, despite being one of the key drivers for people to
upgrade handheld devices. My guess is that the battery life on the T5
is absolutely nothing to write home about - and that's why they
haven't mentioned it.

For many users, battery life is *the* overriding factor in their
decision of which PDA to buy - all the functionality in the world is
no good if the thing goes flat half an hour into your plane journey.

> > I personally think the T5 is a huge disappointment - I'll be sticking
> > with my T2 for the foreseeable future.
>
> I have to assume that you had a palm T1, and then when the palm T2 came out,
> you instantly dropped the "old" T1? In fact, there is more new features and
> stuff in the t5 over the t3, as compared to the jump from a t1 to a t2.

Why have you assumed that? For what it's worth, the T2 is the first
Palm I've owned, and I bought it as a forced upgrade when the late
much-lamented Psion withdrew all support from their palmtops. I bought
my T2 when the T3 was released - I chose between the two, and decided
that the bigger screen on the T3 wasn't adequate compensation for the
reduction in battery life over the T2.

That notwithstanding, the T3 was a step forward over the T2 - the big
screen in a small form factor case was a first for Palm and for the
PDA industry. The ability to use landscape mode - another first, as
far as I know. What does the T5 offer that is new, that pushes the
envelope?

> > If the T5 is the best Palm can do a year after the T3, I have my
> > doubts about their future in this industry.

To get back to my original point, put it this way - is there anything
on the T5 that it would not have been both technically and
commercially possible for Palm to include a year ago in the T3? As far
as I can see, there isn't - the T5 doesn't advance the Palm range one
iota, and is symptomatic of a company that is treading water rather
than making progress - which is the best way to get overtaken and
forced out of the market by the Far Eastern manufacturers, who push
the technology further with every new release.

Simon
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 11:41:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 06:11:29 GMT, Aaron wrote:

> Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote:
>>I think it is inappropriately named. It's a TE upgrade, not a T5.
>
> And perhaps the TE was misnamed also. 'Tungsten' units were supposed to be in
> the *business* line. But the TE is really more of a consumer model, as evidenced
> by Target and similar stores carrying it.

Following that logic, does the fact that Franklin, OfficeMax and Office
Depot sell Zire units make them part of the business line?

>>that's coming from someone who has stuck with a m515...
>
> So in reality the T5 is really a m515 upgrade twice removed? ;) 

Only if one really considers the TE an upgrade to an m515.

--
Derek

For every winner, there are dozens of losers. Odds are you're one of them.
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 1:31:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

> I would not be surprised if their first Cobalt device is a phone.
> (However, I don't think Cobalt will come out ONLY on phones.)

Actually, isn't Cobalt 6.1 aimed specifically at phones?
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 1:36:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

> Palm? Are you thinking PalmSource? PalmOne makes the T5. PalmSource makes
> Garnet and Cobalt.

My biggest disappointment is that it's that painted plastic rather
than metal like the rest of Tungsten T line. My brother has a TE and
it got scratched and looked bad really fast. I still have an original
T|T and it barely shows any wear at all.

I also have serious doubts about the read/write capability of the
Flash memory. From what I have read elsewhere, it has a 10,000 time
read/write before it starts to degrade and memory deteriorates. For
me that could be in a year or two's time with the heavy use that I put
mine through.
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 1:52:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <3q17m0lhqa8fo06hdc003lpu5rn8j6jt3l@4ax.com>,
Aaron <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:

> And perhaps the TE was misnamed also. 'Tungsten' units were supposed to be in
> the *business* line. But the TE is really more of a consumer model, as
> evidenced
> by Target and similar stores carrying it.

Oh jeez, I wish you hadn't told me that. Now I've got to stop using my
T|E for business. Darn! And it worked so well for that.

Do you think if I can find a T|E at a "business" store I could buy that
one and throw away my current T|E and then I could use a T|E for
business?
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 1:52:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

<snip>
Do you think if I can find a T|E at a "business" store I could buy
that
> one and throw away my current T|E and then I could use a T|E for
> business?


Nope, if you bought it at target (or the like) you can't use it for
business or the palm police will get you!
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 2:11:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 6 Oct 2004 07:17:22 -0700, Jim McCartan wrote:

> <snip>
> Do you think if I can find a T|E at a "business" store I could buy
> that
>> one and throw away my current T|E and then I could use a T|E for
>> business?
>
>
> Nope, if you bought it at target (or the like) you can't use it for
> business or the palm police will get you!

And folks who bought a Zire at Office Depot, Office Max or Staples better
not be having any fun with their units, either.

--
Derek

Failure: When your best just isn't good enough.
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 5:04:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 6 Oct 2004 09:31:22 -0700, John Newsome wrote:

>> I would not be surprised if their first Cobalt device is a phone.
>> (However, I don't think Cobalt will come out ONLY on phones.)
>
> Actually, isn't Cobalt 6.1 aimed specifically at phones?

Phones and Wireless devices, according to Palm. It's got built in support
for Wi-fi and Bluetooth.

Methinks that somewhere down the road we'll see a Wi-Fi and Bluetooth
enabled Palm that's similar to the i705 and runds Cobalt.

--
Derek

Since only an idiot would confuse "Lindows" with "Microsoft Windows," what
does it tell us that Bill Gates' group is spending so much time telling us
that we're going to get the two confused?
October 6, 2004 8:09:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Doug Hoffman <dhoffman@journey.com> wrote:

>> Aaron <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
>>the TE is really more of a consumer model, as
>> evidenced by Target and similar stores carrying it.

>Oh jeez, I wish you hadn't told me that. Now I've got to stop using my
>T|E for business. Darn! And it worked so well for that.

No, go ahead and keep using the TE. Lots of people use consumer oriented
products in their businesses. Matches their Timex watches. Might be a little
embarrassing to pull out in the boardroom though. You're fired... ;) 
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 9:36:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Guy Bannis wrote:

> In article <TOB8d.38598$N.1532@fe1.texas.rr.com>, Logan Shaw
> <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>>I have a funny feeling, now that the T5 came out and it doiesn't run
>>Cobalt, that maybe Palm is going to target Cobalt primarily at phones.
>>I would not be surprised if their first Cobalt device is a phone.
>>(However, I don't think Cobalt will come out ONLY on phones.)

> Palm? Are you thinking PalmSource? PalmOne makes the T5. PalmSource makes
> Garnet and Cobalt.

If two people have a child, they have to work together to raise the
child. If the child asks, "Mommy, can I just eat candy for dinner?",
and Mommy says no, then Daddy has to say no as well if the child asks
Daddy the same question. The mother and father are two separate people,
but the fact that they are separate people does not mean that they can
pretend they don't need to coordinate, work together, and be consistent.

I know it's a cheesy analogy, but while palmsource and palmOne are
separate companies, it doesn't mean they can pretend they are totally
independent and that there is no need for them to coordinate on things.
In a sense, they are "married" to each other, and they have a "child"
(the Palm platform) together.

So, the point is, even though I know they are separate entities, I
continue to think of them as one unit in a sense, because I think they
need to behave that way for their own good and for the good of the
Palm platform.

- Logan
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 11:17:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

simon@longnews.freeserve.co.uk (Simon Long) wrote in
news:891fd138.0410050058.6ffb4e01@posting.google.com:

> If the T5 is the best Palm can do a year after the T3, I have my
> doubts about their future in this industry.

Yup. I find the T5... Boring.

It's same old... same old.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 11:21:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

jnewsome@gmail.com (John Newsome) wrote in
news:7075f45b.0410060836.44391017@posting.google.com:

> it has a 10,000 time
> read/write before it starts to degrade and memory deteriorates.

It's 10,000+ write cycles.

Also, not every cycle is written over and over, if Palm were smart, they
would have cycled through the memory. So in reality, it maybe millions of
writes before a cell goes bad.



--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 1:37:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I certainly agree that the leaps forward are not that great, but then from
the t2 to the t3, they also were not.

> That notwithstanding, the T3 was a step forward over the T2 - the big
> screen in a small form factor case was a first for Palm and for the
> PDA industry. The ability to use landscape mode - another first, as
> far as I know. What does the T5 offer that is new, that pushes the
> envelope?

Well, the t5 is the first unit from palm with a high res screen, and a non
collapsible format factor (this is something that MANY people asked for).

Further, it also has built in non volatile memory, again a cutting edge new
feature for the industry (not only is this a first for palm, but for the pad
industry...so, sure...this is a rather big deal). (I think HP has one also
being released real soon). This feature obviously hits at the future
direction that all pda's likely will have in the future. This likely will
become a must-have feature.

And, it is the first palm to ship with the availability of an optional wifi
card (at time of shipping from palm).

So, sure, there is a number of features that you have with the t5 that the
t3 did not have.

> To get back to my original point, put it this way - is there anything
> on the T5 that it would not have been both technically and
> commercially possible for Palm to include a year ago in the T3?

The same above argument applies to the T3.

As I can see, the Sony nx models had everything the t3 had 1 year earlier. I
mean, the t3 had hi-res and the "slider" However, the slider was not new at
all. In fact, two models before had that feature (so, slider is nothing
new...is it?). So, the collapse feature don't count..does it?

As far as I can tell, the ONLY new feature of the t3 was landscape screen?
(so, I count ONE new feature here!). The hi-res screens as mentioned were
availing one year eailer.

So, what exact features of the t3 could not have been had a 1 year earlier?

It is not the hi res screen, since they were out long before the t3. It
can't be the slider, as that was out long before the t3.

And, the t3 did not have a camera, which other models did long before?

So, exactly what new technology did we get in the palm t3 that did not exist
one year before? Looking at models, and what became before, I could ONLY
NOTE ONE feature, and that was landscape. I believe the sony's models got
support for that anyway.

And, those other pda's had things like cameras built in..an the t3 did not?

I can't think of any feature that appeared in the t3 that did not exist in
the marketplace one year earlier?

The t5 is the first palm hi-res tablet format (that feature is new for
palm..but not the industry). And, the t5 is the first pda (as far as I can
tell) that ships with non volatile memory (that feature is new for BOTH palm
and the industry!!). And, this is also the first new palm to ship with an
optional wifi card (available at time of shipping). (again, the t3 did not
have such a thing available).

So, a landscape mode in the t3, or wifi + fixed tablet + non volatile memory
in the t5 ?

Hum...gee, I kind of give the edge to the t5 for including new features over
that of t3.

I freely accept that new products are not only interesting because they have
(or have not) taken previous technology and put them into a new unit. And,
sure..some new bits of technology should also be thrown in. (the t3 really
did not get anything real new in terms of hardware that was a show stopper).

So, I see little that the t3 had in terms of technology that previous units
did not have (with, the exception as far as I can see, landscape mode).

The t5 in fact at least has some hardware that no previous palms have had
(the non volatile memory). Also, the amount of main memory is also very
high..and double that of any palm unit every shipped.

So, at least for palm, a fixed hi-res form factor, non volatile memory,
double the memory of pervious models, and a wifi card available at time of
shipping. Further, some new software features such as the desktop and file
management are included. Hum, this likely marks more new features and a
larger leap forward then the features we got with the t3.

As I mentioned, the wifi card issue is a tough one.

And, a few others mentioned that this might have been better as a
TE...however, it is top of the line right now....

>- which is the best way to get overtaken and
> forced out of the market by the Far Eastern manufacturers, who push
> the technology further with every new release.

Actually, the t3 and models like the t5 are built in china, and it says so
on the back of my t3.... (so, that issue already happened). And, fact is,
palm showed how it could compete with Sony. All in all, they done well...

And, here is a fair question:

What would you want in the new model that would make you upgrade?

--
Albert D. Kallal
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com
http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn
October 7, 2004 2:24:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Simon Long" <simon@longnews.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:891fd138.0410060514.1d28f949@posting.google.com...
> For many users, battery life is *the* overriding factor in their
> decision of which PDA to buy - all the functionality in the world is
> no good if the thing goes flat half an hour into your plane journey.

YES! At least someone understands. It's a shame you don't work
for PalmOne. I'm afraid that I'm tempted to question your use of
the phrase "many users"; sometimes I've been left wondering if it's
only me that cares about battery life since manufacturers seem to
place so little importance on it (based on the pityful battery life
performance that they provide with their models).

I started my Palm adventures with a Palm V in 1998 and it's only
this summer when I got back to the same battery life that I had
with my Palm V (a Sony TH55) and I'm loving it. In the intervening
years I was scared to use my Palm for things like ebook reading on
a plane in case it deprived me of power later in the day. Now that
this is no longer an issue it has totally changed the way I use my PDA
and it's as if I just got my first Palm all over again.

- Julian
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 9:30:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

* Albert D. Kallal <PleaseNOOOsPAMMkallal@msn.com>:
> So, exactly what new technology did we get in the palm t3 that did not exist
> one year before?
>
> I can't think of any feature that appeared in the t3 that did not exist in
> the marketplace one year earlier?

The T3 was the first PDA which combined the following features:
- PalmOS
- 320x480 display
- SD card

This was a killer feature, since Sony only had MS and (crippled) CF
cards.

The T5 is just a 'me too' here.

As a huge bonus the T3 has the Universal Connector, which it really
needs for the PowerToGo charger to compensate for the short battery
life. So one can still use the cradle at work, at home and the hot
sync + charging cable for other locations.

Now PalmOne decided to abandon the Universal Connector, but for what
reason? Garmin showed that it is possible to build a PDA with
Universal Connector *and* a charging plug, so one can use the power
adapter with or without the cradle. And the power adapter
connectors supplied by Palm have been the same for a long time, so
this should have been called Universal Power Connector.

Thomas

--
Email: thomas@jtah.de (at work: thomas@intevation.de)
http://jtah.de/
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 3:55:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Thomas Arendsen Hein" <thomas@jtah.de> wrote in message
news:2sk2keF1jf244U1@uni-berlin.de...

>* Albert D. Kallal <PleaseNOOOsPAMMkallal@msn.com>:
>> So, exactly what new technology did we get in the palm t3 that did not
>> exist
>> one year before?
>>
>> I can't think of any feature that appeared in the t3 that did not exist
>> in
>> the marketplace one year earlier?
>
> The T3 was the first PDA which combined the following features:
> - PalmOS
> - 320x480 display
> - SD card
>
> This was a killer feature, since Sony only had MS and (crippled) CF
> cards.

Your point is fair. In fact, I was just pointing out that looking at
previous features, all of the t3 features had been available in previous
models in some form or fashion (however, as you (and the original poster)
state..not in the same unit). So, lots of suits had SD cards. Units had
Hi-rest screens.

And, if you look close, that sonny did thus have duel slots, just that dumb
Memory Stick! Further, that CF slot did have a wifi option.

My WHOLE point here was that no new technology appeared in the t3 that was
not in the marketplace 1 year earlier for the palm platform. This was the
original question by the OP. So, sure, the mix of features in the t3 was new
to the markpalce, but each feature taken separate was long available in the
marketplace.

However, the t5 is actually better in this regards. It is the first palm
unit with fixed tablet, and hi-res (these two are nothing new), and also non
volatile memory (that is new!!). That is both a first for palmone, and for
palm industry in terms of non volatile memory.

So, the t3 got nothing new that was not in units 1 year earlier, and the t5
does in fact have some new technology that NO previous units had.

However, the question still remains, what was expected in this new model to
make people upgrade? For people like me, there is really little, or nothing.
However, there is a large vocal group of people that said if you give me a
t3 with a non slider, and better battery life..I will run out and buy
it...well, as mentioned, those folks now have their day in the sun.

The t5 is a good replacement for the t3. And, in fact the market needs a
good quality hi res unit (non slider). This is a good unit.

However, I do accept the points made by others here that the t5 is not a
model that has some magical feature that would make me upgrade.

On the other hand, I can't think of much of a new feature on my t3 that I
would want anyway...especially since the wifi card is out.


--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com
http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 3:55:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Albert D. Kallal" <PleaseNOOOsPAMMkallal@msn.com> wrote in message
news:UHk9d.20629$a41.7022@pd7tw2no...
> "Thomas Arendsen Hein" <thomas@jtah.de> wrote in message
> news:2sk2keF1jf244U1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> >* Albert D. Kallal <PleaseNOOOsPAMMkallal@msn.com>:
> >> So, exactly what new technology did we get in the palm t3 that did not
> >> exist
> >> one year before?
> >>
> >> I can't think of any feature that appeared in the t3 that did not exist
> >> in
> >> the marketplace one year earlier?
> >
> > The T3 was the first PDA which combined the following features:
> > - PalmOS
> > - 320x480 display
> > - SD card
> >
> > This was a killer feature, since Sony only had MS and (crippled) CF
> > cards.
>
> Your point is fair. In fact, I was just pointing out that looking at
> previous features, all of the t3 features had been available in previous
> models in some form or fashion (however, as you (and the original poster)
> state..not in the same unit). So, lots of suits had SD cards. Units had
> Hi-rest screens.
>
> And, if you look close, that sonny did thus have duel slots, just that
dumb
> Memory Stick! Further, that CF slot did have a wifi option.
>
> My WHOLE point here was that no new technology appeared in the t3 that was
> not in the marketplace 1 year earlier for the palm platform. This was the
> original question by the OP. So, sure, the mix of features in the t3 was
new
> to the markpalce, but each feature taken separate was long available in
the
> marketplace.
>
> However, the t5 is actually better in this regards. It is the first palm
> unit with fixed tablet, and hi-res (these two are nothing new), and also
non
> volatile memory (that is new!!). That is both a first for palmone, and for
> palm industry in terms of non volatile memory.
>
> So, the t3 got nothing new that was not in units 1 year earlier, and the
t5
> does in fact have some new technology that NO previous units had.
>
> However, the question still remains, what was expected in this new model
to
> make people upgrade? For people like me, there is really little, or
nothing.
> However, there is a large vocal group of people that said if you give me a
> t3 with a non slider, and better battery life..I will run out and buy
> it...well, as mentioned, those folks now have their day in the sun.
>
> The t5 is a good replacement for the t3. And, in fact the market needs a
> good quality hi res unit (non slider). This is a good unit.
>
> However, I do accept the points made by others here that the t5 is not a
> model that has some magical feature that would make me upgrade.
>
> On the other hand, I can't think of much of a new feature on my t3 that I
> would want anyway...especially since the wifi card is out.
>

For me, it's simple: my Palm does what I need, and more. No need to shell
out money just for the sake of getting the newest technology. Maybe later.

>
> --
> Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
> Edmonton, Alberta Canada
> pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com
> http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn
>
>
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 5:20:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Albert D. Kallal wrote:


> On the other hand, I can't think of much of a new feature on my t3 that I
> would want anyway...especially since the wifi card is out.
>
>

Does the wifi card double as an SD flash memory storage card?

--
Ben Thomas
Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
relate to the official business of my firm shall be understood as neither
given nor endorsed by it.
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 5:50:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

>
> Does the wifi card double as an SD flash memory storage card?
>

No, it does not. And, some have pointed out that is why they wnated a dual
sd slot unit.

On the other hand, there is a generoues amount of memoery abialbing for file
storaage. So, with wifi and browing, you don't need a sd emeory card, sinc
eyou got 256 on board.

If you only got a pda with 32, or 64 megs of ram, then sure...I certanly see
the need/desire to have a memory card + wifi. However, with 256 megs (and
160 of that essenclty a sd card), then you don't really need the extra
memory on the wifi card.

However, I got a t3.....and that is a bit of a differnt story...as you
don't have a on board file system to save those email attachmens and file
downloads. I think there is some 3rd party software that might do this...but
with the t5...you are convered in this regards.





> --
> Ben Thomas
> Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
> relate to the official business of my firm shall be understood as neither
> given nor endorsed by it.
>
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 6:24:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:37:41 GMT, Albert D. Kallal wrote:

> And, the t5 is the first pda (as far as I can tell) that ships with
> non volatile memory (that feature is new for BOTH palm and the
> industry!!).

I believe the Sony UX-40 and UX-50 had internal non-volatile memory.

As far as I can tell, there is no "new to the industry" feature on the
T|T5....

-alan

--
Alan Hoyle - alanh@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 6:24:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Alan Hoyle <alanh@unc.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:37:41 GMT, Albert D. Kallal wrote:
>
>> And, the t5 is the first pda (as far as I can tell) that ships with
>> non volatile memory (that feature is new for BOTH palm and the
>> industry!!).
>
> I believe the Sony UX-40 and UX-50 had internal non-volatile memory.

Indeed. 48 MB of which is usable by the user: 32 MB as a pseudo-card
that's always present, and 16 MB as backup memory for storing a copy of the
regular memory. By doing a backup, you can turn the UX40/50 off -- truly
off, unlike other PalmOS PDAs.

Regards,
--
*Art
!