Ink for Canon IP4200

[dhlucke]

I bought this printer and from what I understand I have to use the Canon ink since the thing has a chip in it or something. That's fine, I'll get real ink.

However, unlike the IP4000 there doesn't seem to be the 5 pack of ink available and you have to buy every color individually for a premium. Anyone have any suggestions where to get ink at a reasonable price?

<font color=red><b>Long live Dhanity and the minions scouring the depths of Wingdingium!</b>

XxxxX
(='.'=)
(")_(") Bow down before King Bunny

 

[Osage]

To dhlucke,

You ask the jackpot question. The new Canon chipped cartridges are refillable but once a certain amount of ink is used, the cartridge quits printing, pops up a message offering to keep printing but one has to confess to the software the warranty is up. Nor from what I have read, is the new Canon ink much better than the old stuff despite Canon puffing it. But this new Canon consumer rip off policy may keep Canon as a member in good standing in the printer manufacters chapter of the Snidley Whiplash fan club.

Last time I looked at Costco, they did not have any inkpacks for the new models. But in any event, if you want OEM ink cartridges, Canon now controls all resellers, and its going to be hard to beat Canon OEM prices by much.

In the future some sort of chip resetter may come onto the market and some are working in this direction. There is also a post in Steves digicams that swiftink has definite plans to bring out replacement cartridges for a variety of the new Canon printers. And other third party manufacters probably have such future plans also.

But until an existing work around becomes available and its impossible to guess exactly what form the workaround will be, I would personally recommend that consumers boycott these new Canon printer models using chipped cartridges. I'll stick to my MP730 and ip 4000.-----and that all I think these these new Canon models are is simply a Canon effort to get consumers to buy the old excellent Canon technology now bundled with consumer unfriendly chipped cartridges. New and not improved printers.

A new and improved Canon Printer line up? I for one think not.

For those that have or will in the future buy such chipped Canon printers, do not give up hope. These new printers tend to be slightly cheaper than the older lineup and a workaround is almost sure to come. Just gonna take some time.

When this workaround does come out and the existing new Canon lineup is again recognised as the best consumer choice, it does not take a crystal ball to guess it will be once again time for Canon to come up with another new printer lineup.

 

[dhlucke]

I tried looking for an IP4000 but the only place to get one is at unreliable vendors online, and at a premium to the new models.

The IP4000 used a bit more ink and was a bit slower than the IP4200. It was slightly better at printing color prints though.

I purchased some Photo Paper Pro 4x6 and Photo Paper Plus 5x7 Glossy paper so I'm looking forward to testing this thing out.

I suspect that once these 5 packs of ink are released like they did for the older models all will be well but until then it's kinda expensive.

In the long run though, despite everything, I think the Canon printers will still offer better quality at a better price. There was nothing worse than my old Lexmark that didn't even have good quality and still cost a fortune for ink that barely lasted.

<font color=red><b>Long live Dhanity and the minions scouring the depths of Wingdingium!</b>

XxxxX
(='.'=)
(")_(") Bow down before King Bunny

 

[Osage]

To Dhlucke,

I finally held my nose and went to the Canon USA web site to check prices on OEM cartridges for the ip42000. Its basically the same unit as the ip4000 except all the new ip4200 cartridges costs $2.25 more than the old ip4000 ones. Gee, what a bargain, it only costs you $2.25 more per cartridge to get the chips that rip you off. Not sure, but I think the new cartridges come with slightly less ink than their BCI-6 equivalents. But do the math and its about 16% more for the one large text black and almost 19% more for the four CLI-8 color cartridges compared to the ip4000.

Going back to the Tom Hardware guide test of the ip4000 which came in at 3 cents per page black text and eight cents plain paper mixed color using OEM ink, the new assumed figures would be 3.5 cents and 9.5 cents. Still beating the non canon competition by a wide margin.---but its in the area of photo printing where the older Canons shine. According to the April/05 issue of consumer report, the average OEM ink consumable costs for a 8 x 10 photoprint came in at eighty cents for the ip4000. Many users on other forums point out they can reduce that to six cents using third party non-oem cartridges and as low as three cents using refilling methods and bulk purchase of high quality non-oem ink. Even accepting the six cent figure, that is a cost reduction by a factor of over thirteen fold. Gets really compelling if you do much photoprinting. Even if third party inks are not quite as good as OEM and the quality varies widely. But some non-oem ink is quite good so read reviews on various forums.
In terms of print lasting over time, I am just now learning that the paper and not the ink is a more important factor.

Not sure what you meant by five packs of ink. Were you referring to Canon OEM ink or any of the large number of non oem cartridges vendors who advertise refill sets dirt cheap on ebay and elsewhere? If its the latter, those bargains will not be available for the ip4200 until a workaround is found for the new chips.

And you are quite correct that you are way way better off with the ip4200 compared to even the most economical lexmarks.

Its a sad comentary about todays marketing when one can point to some other vendor and say well we are better than those other guys. But in any race, someone has to come in last place.

But cheer up, Lexmark leads the rip off race. Just a view point thing here. I guess we consumers just love to get hosed by inkjet printer manufacters, refuse to study markets or cost issues, and happily accept whatever is offered. For one mad moment in time, Canon made the mistake of being too consumer friendly.
Corrective action has been taken and the balance is being restored.

At least that how it is from where I am from.

Is it better in the land of Wingdingium?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Osage on 10/31/05 12:52 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[WingDing]

This particular Wingding owns a Canon Pixma ip8500, and he orders cartridges through his stationary order at work, so he doesn't pay. It's called 'doing a wusy'.

 

[Osage]

To Wingding,

Please tell me that you work for Halliburton. If so you are far too kind in using an economical printer. Get ye a Lexmark,
one of those ones with super small cartridges.

 

[dhlucke]

Well I do use the company credit card to pay for this stuff but since the company is essentially mine I might as well save a few bucks.

<font color=red><b>Long live Dhanity and the minions scouring the depths of Wingdingium!</b>

XxxxX
(='.'=)
(")_(") Bow down before King Bunny

 

[Svenson]

I'm looking at the 4200 also and a question comes to mind:

If you refill the cartridge and get past the nag screens then the ink level indicator for that cartridge is disabled . . . now, if you put in a new Canon ink cartridge will you recover the ink level indicator feature or is it forever disabled?

Thanks!

-Bob-

 

[Osage]

To Svenson, Not 100% per sure, but from what I read, if you disable ink monitoring and use a
refilled chipped canon cartridge in that printer slot, later putting in a brand new OEM chipped Canon back into that slot will get ink monitoring backm in that particular printer slot, But the fact you sinned and cheated will also be remembered by the chipped Canon software.

 

[Svenson]

Thanks Osage!

I don't do that much printing so I can run OEM tanks till they unlock the chips. The fact that I've "sinned" shouldn't be a surprise to anyone but maybe Canon so they can record it for posterity if they wish, so if I get tired of waiting I wont lose any sleep over refilling a cartridge. If they do get the chips unlocked after I've sinned though I would like to regain my level indicators if possible though.

OK, looks like I'm off to do some cybershopping for an ip4200 and a CD tray for it!

Thanks again!

-Bob-

 

[Osage]

To Svenson,

While you are off cybershopping ---there are still some previous generation unchipped Canons to be had---try ebay---look also to something like the MP780---which is the non chipped ip4000 printer engine in a multifuntional on Sale at fry's electronic for $150. after rebates.

Nothing wrong with a ip4200 but it does come with the curse of the chip--and is only marginally better than what it replaces. Given my druthers, I'd take a ip4000 any day----but I am biased---I already have a ip4000.

 

[Svenson]

Hi Osage,

Thanks for the tips!

I did look for the ip4000 and 5000 online but it was a no go for me - they are hard to find and if you do find one they run around $150 plus shipping. eBay wasn't much better - no "Buy It Now"s and judging from past auctions they'd go in the $150 range also.

I really don't do that much printing - I'm a Scout Leader so I print meeting announcements, maybe some sign up sheets and stuff, and a few pages of Committee meeting minutes each month. If I order something online I usually print the confirmation out also. I collect old time radio shows so I burn a few CDs and I like to print on the paper sleeve what's on the CD, but that's about it -> probably far less than a hundred sheets a month. My kids have their own computers and printers - one is an Epson and we have a chip resetter for it, and one is an older Canon so they don't use my machine and theirs are easy to refill. I'd be pickier and more concerned about refilling if it was for one of them!

I probably have several months worth of running on the cartridges that will come with the machine and by then hopefully there will be a chip resetter or compatible cartridge out there. If not I'll make the decision then, but the clincher for the ip4200 was that I -could- do refills - the machine doesn't stop you from using them, it just makes it less convenient by disabling the ink level indicators. Yes, losing the ink level indicator sucks, but checking the ink every so often isn't a big deal for me and if I find it a pain I can put an OEM back in and regain the function.

Buy.com has the ip4200s on sale right now for $78.99 with free shipping. I just couldn't see paying twice that for an older machine - especially since the ip4200 -can- use refilled cartridges -> again, that was the clincher . . . If the chip would've refused to let a refilled cartridge run I wouldn't have bought it!

Although I don't print much I am looking forward to the new printer! That automatic double sided printing will be neat and the ability to print on CDs and DVDs will also be neat. I wont use the CD/DVD printing often, but it will be nice to have the option. The photo printing isn't a major concern for me, but it also would be nice to have just for pictures during the holidays when it's inconvenient to run somewhere and get them printed - it'll be nice to be able to print them right away and send them home with the guests.

The more I think about it the more comfortable I get with my selection, it just seems like a great printer for $78.99 - even with the chipped cartridges! I hope that feeling doesn't go away once it arrives and I start using it!

Thanks again for your great comments and tips!

-Bob-

 

[Osage]

To Svenson,

If you only print 100 pages per month, your savings won't be all that impressive---for a standard 5% text balck page figure three cents per page using OEM cartridges in a ip4200. And about eight cents for a standard page of mixed color on plain paper. Refilling get real compelling in photoprinting where ink consumable costs ad up fast.

A refiller can get the text page cost down to about .3 cents per page---so your savings would be about $2.70 per month or $32.40 a year. At 100 pages a month. But a low ink usuage you will waste alot of ink--included color ink in cleaning cycles. So published per cartridge yield won't apply well to you or those above cited savings.---but the Canon published yield of the large text black text cartridge is about 500 pages.

But for you, the ip4200 may well be an excellent option.

 

[Svenson]

Yep, I have such low usage that buying OEM cartridges doesn't bother me much beyond the fact that I'm simply paying more than I should be! (that's just WRONG!)

In fact in my old BJC-4300 I didn't even have color installed - I had the high capacity all black BC-20 cartridge installed in it!

I will probably use the color more on this printer though since it can do nice digital camera prints and CD/DVDs.

Well, back out to the mail box where I've pitched my tent waiting for it to arrive!

Take Care, thanks for everything!

-Bob-

 

[INeedCache]

I've found with the Canon Pixma printers you're better off using Canon's ink. You can get cartridges at http://www.databazaar.com. It's a good place to shop and prices are reasonable.

 

[Osage]

I looked at the databazaar website----my overall impression is that I can find Canon OEM cartridges cheaper at my local walmart.

There is also no question that Canon OEM cartridges are a good choice for
getting the best possible color balance from a Canon printer. But when you add cost to the equation, other third party inks positively run rings around Canon OEM inks. With saving of up to 40x over Canon OEM ink and little or no sacrifice in color balance.-------and its the saving that make home photoprinting really a viable option.

The truth is that Canon and all OEM printer manufacters really gouge the consumer on ink. Getting an OEM ink cartridge a tiny bit cheaper than full list price does little to give options or soften what can be only called a ripoff.

Lets me put it this way---Canon charges about $4300 per gallon of usable ink when sold in the form of a BCI-6 cartridge---and the refiller can buy a
quality ink at $100. or so a gallon---or even $200 a gallon when not bought in bulk. There is zero evidence that Canon ink is even twice as good--much less the 40x required.

 

[Svenson]

Just got my ip4200 today - WOW!

First off, it's HEAVY!!!! Really feels substantial compared to the BJC-4300 it replaced!

Just printed a couple photos . . . found out you should read the manual before playing, but for other like me . . . load the photo paper vertically, not horizontally! LOL! The next print was orientate correctly and came out GOREOUS! Wow!

Text printing was neat too - I really like the automatic double sided printing!

Now I'm just waiting for that CD tray I ordered off of eBay!!!!

Hope they get the ink cartridge chip thingie beat soon, I think I'll probably use a lot more color ink with this printer!!!!

 

[Svenson]

Oh, almos forgot . . . better make sure you have a stable printer stand! This thing really rocks when it prints!!!!

 

[Heliopolis]

I just found an online retailer here in Australia (www.waink.com.au) that offers bulk refill ink bottles (10mL syringe & needle included) in 125mL, ~500mL (1LB) & ~1L (2LB).

They offer all colours required for this printer.

I will email and ask their experiences with refilling these cartridges and post anything of value to this thread.

Regards to all,

Heliopolis.

 

[Svenson]

I just found an online retailer here in Australia (www.waink.com.au) that offers bulk refill ink bottles (10mL syringe & needle included) in 125mL, ~500mL (1LB) & ~1L (2LB).

They offer all colours required for this printer.

I will email and ask their experiences with refilling these cartridges and post anything of value to this thread.

Regards to all,

Heliopolis.

Many places are offering refill ink but all I've seen are the same ink as is used in the ip4000 - not the new longer life ink Canon has introduced in these printers (doesn't mean it wont work though!).

What eveyone is waiting on is a chip resetter or compatible cartridge.

 

[Osage]

For what its worth department

Within the last week or so, www.hobbicolors.com has released inks specifically blended for the new chipped Canons.--like the ip4200/5200
that use the chromalife 100 inks. But hobbicolors primarily vends on ebay--just type hobbicolors into the ebay search bar.

On dedicated photoptinting forums---notably the nifty stuff forums---hobbicolors is highly regarded along with MIS and Formulalabs as the only inks that provided a very close to Canon OEM match in regards to color balance for the non-chipped canons using the BCI-3&6 cartridges.

With most refillers of the chipped canons using the inks blended for the non-chipped canons. ---now hobbicolors is the first of any third party ink vendor to release an ink specially mixed for the chipped Canons.

Another reason to check out hobbicolors is that they do ship internationally although having or knowing someone with a pay pal account may be necessary.

I should note I do use hobbicolors in my non-chipped Canons---although I could not recommend them over MIS or formulalabs for a non-chopped Canon. ---they just happened to be one of three good choices---but for chipped Canons they may be the better choice.---but being the first to offer a special blend to better match chromalife 100 inks may be newsworthy and worth checking out.

 

[Svenson]

Hi Osage,

My printer is finally running low on PGI-5 ink.

I was discussing with a friend whether or not to try refilling or just buying another OEM cartridge while I wait for the chips to be circumvented.

He said he'd read somewhere that there isn't any danger in using a refill as even though the cartridge level display is disabled the cartridges themselves have a prism on them and the printer checks the prism to insure there is indeed ink in the cartridge before it prints, so you do lose the ink level indicator but the printer still wont allow it's self to be hurt if you run a cartridge dry.

I poked around a bit but I couldn't find this info anywhere . . . do you know if it's true or not?

Thanks!!!

-Bob-

 

[Osage]

To Svenson,

Sorry for not respondind earlier---hadn't checked this forum for a few days.

But I believe what your friend says is basically correct in the last generation Canons---but not true on the new generation of chipped Canons.

In the non-chipped Canons the printer read only the prism--and then had a delay mechanism built in so that even though light is no longer impeded by the ink---the printer would still print many more pages before triggering a low ink warning.---but the user themselves can screw up the delay mechanism in a non-chipped Canon if they remove and replace an empty cartridge often. ---for the user of an OEM cartridge in a non-chipped Canon the best strategy is to keep printing until you get a low ink warning and then replace the cartridge---for the refiller--the best strategy is to refill before the reserve tank empties.---keeps the sponge in better shape.

But the touted advantage of a chipped cartridge is that it can actually count nozzle fires as it exactly monitors ink depleted from the cartridge--some time before the cartridge runs out of its 26 ML of ink--the chip itself tells the printer its empty---and then flat out refuses to print any more---until you go through the nag screens---void the warranty---and agree to accept all liability for damages.---if you then fail to refill the cartridge--the printer will just keep on printing until all usable ink is depleted--and then the printhead would be running dry and could damage itself.--from what I hear--even though the chipped Canons still have a prism--its more a tattle tale device---and won't protect you from low ink once you over-ride the chip.

But if you refill a CLI-5 or 8 cartridge---the chip will tell the printer its empty after a pre-set number of nozzle fires---period---and will keep printing only after you disable all ink monitoring after that---or so it will go until a chip resetter comes onto the market--but Canon has done its homework and has protected their chips from being cracked--and even though many people are working on it--no joy yet.

As to the near empty CLI-5 cartridge you have now---you can print with perfect safety---its only after the chip in it triggers low ink---then you are stuck with a printer that will refuse to print anything---and its decision time---either put in a new OEM CLI-5 or refill the one you have---and go through the nag screens for that cartridge to finally get the printer to print again.

To acheive ease of refilling--its often necessary to have a second set of cartridge---many refillers just are now buying another ip4200 on line when a decent bargain comes available---because you can get a whole set of OEM cartridges with it---for very little more than the the set of OEM chipped cartridges alone---and then you have a spare printer ready to go if anything happens to the one you have.

 

[Svenson]

Thanks Osage!

I decided to try and refill it. I just got back from a Boy Scout High Adventure Canoe Trek to Quetico Park in Canada so I just got a refill kit ordered - I ordered one from HobbiColors on eBay. I ordered the one with the pigmented ink rather than the pigment ink as they said it was easier on the print head but wouldn't stand up to getting wet very well. I print very little so an ink that's easier on the print head and easier to clean if it dries up I thought was a better choice. Most of what I print is of temporary nature and is thrown away in a month or so so durability and water resistance aren't a big concern to me.

When it arrives I'll give it a shot and let ya know how it worked.

Thanks again for the help!

-Bob-

 

[Bill_Q]

Just a note to this discussion to say that if refilled carts are used with the Canan iPx200 series, not only do you lose the ink monitor, as well as logging the fact that you've committed a sin, if you don't keep an eye on the actual ink level and run a cartridge dry, you can burn out the print head! I know, it happened to me. So be aware.