Memory for Designing, Rendering

trancenation · Jul 26, 2005

I want to use the dual channel capacity my mobo has, P4C800 Deluxe, so where I live they sell "OCZ DDR400(PC3200) 2x1024 CL 2-3-2-5" kit. I've been told before that I should use CL3 memory cause at those timings my system should run more stable. Can I relax the 2-3-3-5 timings? Is there any chance that I can buy single DDRs and make em work in dualchannel? Thanks for your attention in advance!

RichPLS · Jul 26, 2005

Yes, it is better to buy the tightest timings you can afford.
I have a Gigabyte 8KNXP Ultra-64 mobo with 2-Gig of Corsair TwinX Pro 2-2-2-5 RAM and my board runs fine at those timings with 4x512MB chips.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

trancenation · Jul 26, 2005

Thanks for your reply RichPLS, but I think I explained myself wrong, what I meant by system stability was the fact that when you run the memories at CL3(more relaxed than CL2) the writing to the memory would have lesser flaws, and for rendering purposes, or designing with flash, photoshop etc., Crashman recommended CL3 timings. Is there a way to relax the CL2 to CL3? And is it possible to just put normal DDR( as in not dualchannel kit).

RichPLS · Jul 26, 2005

Yes and Yes.
But I would run dual channel for faster rendering, which I do at 2-2-2-5.
BTW, I run AutoDesk and do rendering of surfaces and aerial photo rectification with 2-2-2-5 timings and have no problems whatsoever.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

Guest · Jul 26, 2005

It is piossible in the bios you have a setting for the ram. It goes like read ram SPD values(wich are the one stated 2-3-2-5), you can set them manually to something like 3-3-3-8, you will probably have a minor performance hit but a minor stability addition.
The fastest standard for DDR memory is DDR400@CL3...everything else is "out of spec" tunning by the manufacturer(it does run really stable thought).

Finally your better of Dual channel packs before the two stick have been test to work well together, but there is no real problem running 2 stick (bought separetly) in dual channel. Especially if you buy them at the same time, chances are they'll come from the same batch and be almost identical!

To run in DualChannel, you preferably need the same speed and same CL, and you do need the same size...

Hope this helps!

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0

Guest · Jul 26, 2005

Errr, you fast fingered scooper!
Mine is more detailed thought! and yes I'm sure 2-2-2-5 vs 3-x-x-x wont change the stability and probly wont change the speed allt hat much!

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0

trancenation · Jul 26, 2005

Thanks Rich and labbbby for your info, I'll be heading to the store right now

... thanks for your help again.

Rugger · Jul 26, 2005

You running them at 1T or 2T?

__________________________________________________
You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!

RichPLS · Jul 26, 2005

I think 5 is the tRAS timing.
Not sure, just know in bios they are 2-2-2-5

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

BrentUnitedMem · Jul 26, 2005

Performance memory is well suited pretty much only for video games and benchmarks. It serves no practical purpose other than bragging rights, benchmark scores and emotional concerns. (opinion?)

There I said it. haha

Anycase, CL3 is a safe choice for video editing and rendering if your concern is for the reliability of the data and general system stability during the long time your modules are in use rendering graphics.

******
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sence." -The Buddha
AIM BrentUnitedMem

RichPLS · Jul 27, 2005

CL 2 memory will boot faster and load large programs quicker compared to CL3.
And CL2 memory runs very stable at CL3 if you wish, but CL3 usually will not run CL2 stable at same rating.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

BrentUnitedMem · Jul 27, 2005

edit: (sorry for confusion) A MODULE RUNNING AT (not a module capable of CL2) CL2 generally less stable than CL3 and are designed for applications where the luxury of performance takes presidence over the possibility of error, meaning that some applications like games can afford errors in data. Professional applications generally have little tolerance for such errors.

So in a certain sence it is "best" to choose modules that are more stable for these applications.

Of course it is a personal preference.

******
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sence." -The Buddha
AIM BrentUnitedMemEdited by BrentUnitedMem on 07/27/05 02:18 PM.

Rugger · Jul 27, 2005

You should have a setting for Command Rate and options of 1T or 2T.

__________________________________________________
You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!

Guest · Jul 27, 2005

Pffft, listen to Brent his title should be Memory Guru

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0

RichPLS · Jul 27, 2005

Wow, I thought they took the best chips for CL2, and the ones that did not make it were marked as CL3.
Not the other way around.

So are you saying a CL2 DIMM running at CL3 for stability is less stable than same machine running a CL3 module?

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

BrentUnitedMem · Jul 27, 2005

I see the confusion.

CL3 has a greater level of stability than CL2 - always. You have to account for the module with respect to the system and its applications. But comparing just the module, a module rated at CL2 has a higher level of stability than the same module rated at best CL3 if both are run at CL3.

And of course, we have to assume the modules are from the same batch- which is not necessarily the case. Modules of the same brand can vary by die-revision, PCB board, etc..

Keep in mind there are many parameters to a memory chip. Fast does not mean widely compatible. Though many people consider a chip capable of handling CL2 to be "better" than a CL3 chip- it certainly is not always the case.

A standard motherboard test across several platforms is used in our industry to determine wide-compatibility, not the rated speed of a chip. Many people consider a module with a wide range of compatibility to be "better". "Better" is a relative term and often just a matter of personal preference.

******
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sence." -The Buddha
AIM BrentUnitedMem

RichPLS · Jul 27, 2005

So for optimum stability if you are not using ECC or Parity RAM is to buy premium CL2 and run it at CL3 for stability.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

BrentUnitedMem · Jul 27, 2005

Most cases yes.

What is premium CL2?

edit not trying to fry this conversation up. Memory is a difficult subject. A statement is only true if there are no exceptions. In this case, not every setup is most stable at CL3 (example: certain AMD systems). yeah.. its geeky.

I edited a post from above too =)

******
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sence." -The Buddha
AIM BrentUnitedMemEdited by BrentUnitedMem on 07/27/05 02:18 PM.

RichPLS · Jul 28, 2005

I consider premium CL2 such as Corsair TwinX Pro 3200

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

RichPLS · Jul 29, 2005

Correct you are, except for the rich part!
Nyuh Nyuh Nyuh Nyuhhhhh!

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

noko · Jul 31, 2005

CL3 has a greater level of stability than CL2 - always.

I have hyperX pc3000 CAS 2 ram that will not run at CAS3 no matter what the bus speed is set at or other timings. In my NF7-S R2 mobo cas 2.5 is the highest I can set this ram at to boot. Presently I have this ram voltage at 3.4v, 235mhz, bh5 modules with CAS at 2.5. I've taken the ram up to 240mhz with same timings and ran stable except my cpu had to use a multiplier less then 10x which tanks the memory bandwidth on the NF7 series motherboard and NF2 chipset boards in general. So ram can be picky at times and this is probably a rare exception.

BrentUnitedMem · Aug 1, 2005

Exceptions do occur when a system is not prepared to handle the relaxed timings- as NOKO pointed out: some memory/systems do not like relaxed timings. Also, certain AMD systems handle CL2.5 better than CL3 for PC-3200.

Perhaps it's an axiom that relaxed timings have a greater level of stability.

******
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sence." -The Buddha
AIM BrentUnitedMem

trancenation · Aug 15, 2005

I finally bought OCZ PC3200 2GB Platinium Edition DualChannel Kit and will test how the stability is on different settings. I want to thank all of you who answerd my questions and those that went into the discussion further. I'll be letting you know how the sticks run.!

mozzartusm · Aug 15, 2005

Is your RAM on the QVL for the MOBO your using?

ASUS P5WD2 Premium
Intel 3.73 EE @ 5.6Ghz
XMS2 DDR2 @ 1180Mhz

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SuperPI 25secs

noko · Aug 16, 2005

I really don't know, since it is more of a ethusiast module (Kingston HyperX) I doubt it. Seems like bH5 in general on the NF7 have a hard time at CL3. The ram is rated at cas 2-2-2-? for pc3000 but will do that up to 230mhz with enough volts.

Edited by noko on 08/15/05 09:21 PM.

Memory for Designing, Rendering

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