[40k]Will GW be revisiting all the "Non-Codex" Space Marin..

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I guess what I was thinking was that the current Deathwing and Space Wolf
Terminators are apparently smaller than the new plastic Termies or the
current GK metal Termies. Has anyone heard if GW is thinking of resculpting
the chapter-specific termies so they won't look puny compared to the new
guys?

--
Ken Coble

I am just an aging drummer boy
And in the wars I used to play
And I've called the tune to many a torture session
Now they say I am a war criminal
And I'm fading away
Father, please hear my confession
-Dire Straits, "The Man's Too Strong"
 
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"Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:VDV2e.9148$JL2.190430@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>I guess what I was thinking was that the current Deathwing and Space Wolf
>Terminators are apparently smaller than the new plastic Termies or the
>current GK metal Termies. Has anyone heard if GW is thinking of
>resculpting the chapter-specific termies so they won't look puny compared
>to the new guys?

There are rumours that there will be chapter specific termy boxes released
as the new codexes come out - basically the new plastics with chapter
specific shoulder pads.

Dan
 
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Spack wrote:
> "Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:VDV2e.9148$JL2.190430@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>> I guess what I was thinking was that the current Deathwing and Space
>> Wolf Terminators are apparently smaller than the new plastic Termies
>> or the current GK metal Termies. Has anyone heard if GW is thinking
>> of resculpting the chapter-specific termies so they won't look puny
>> compared to the new guys?
>
> There are rumours that there will be chapter specific termy boxes
> released as the new codexes come out - basically the new plastics
> with chapter specific shoulder pads.

That makes perfect sense, actually. They can throw a small sprue in there
with the chap-specific shoulders, and some of the typical bitz: swords and
feathers for the Deathwing, wolf tails and teeth for the Wolf Guard,
whatever. Who wants to bet on what the markup for that little 'extra' sprue
will be, though? My money's on $10 US more per chapter-specific box.

If I hit a couple of the local game stores I can probably pick up all the
metal Deathwings I'd ever want: wonder if I should grab the metals while the
getting is good?

--
Ken Coble

I am just an aging drummer boy
And in the wars I used to play
And I've called the tune to many a torture session
Now they say I am a war criminal
And I'm fading away
Father, please hear my confession
-Dire Straits, "The Man's Too Strong"
 
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"Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:YlW2e.6032$9v2.195012@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Spack wrote:
>> "Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:VDV2e.9148$JL2.190430@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>>> I guess what I was thinking was that the current Deathwing and Space
>>> Wolf Terminators are apparently smaller than the new plastic Termies
>>> or the current GK metal Termies. Has anyone heard if GW is thinking
>>> of resculpting the chapter-specific termies so they won't look puny
>>> compared to the new guys?
>>
>> There are rumours that there will be chapter specific termy boxes
>> released as the new codexes come out - basically the new plastics
>> with chapter specific shoulder pads.
>
> That makes perfect sense, actually. They can throw a small sprue in there
> with the chap-specific shoulders, and some of the typical bitz: swords and
> feathers for the Deathwing, wolf tails and teeth for the Wolf Guard,
> whatever. Who wants to bet on what the markup for that little 'extra'
> sprue will be, though? My money's on $10 US more per chapter-specific
> box.

My money's on metal bitz, as the existing sprues already have the generic
shoulder pads on. Cutting a sprue for a relatively small production run, and
having to take another larger selling mould off the production line to make
them, would likely cost more than casting up metal parts. A box would have
the generic sprues plus the metal bits, probably for an extra £5 (or if the
financial people get involved, £10).

Dan
 
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Spack wrote:
> "Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message

<snip>

>> That makes perfect sense, actually. They can throw a small sprue in
>> there with the chap-specific shoulders, and some of the typical
>> bitz: swords and feathers for the Deathwing, wolf tails and teeth
>> for the Wolf Guard, whatever. Who wants to bet on what the markup
>> for that little 'extra' sprue will be, though? My money's on $10 US
>> more per chapter-specific box.
>
> My money's on metal bitz, as the existing sprues already have the
> generic shoulder pads on. Cutting a sprue for a relatively small
> production run, and having to take another larger selling mould off
> the production line to make them, would likely cost more than casting
> up metal parts. A box would have the generic sprues plus the metal
> bits, probably for an extra £5 (or if the financial people get
> involved, £10).

Wow, that's interesting. Despite a horrible summer job working QA in an
injection molding plant (I worked on the line that made disposable pipette
tips, yay), I didn't know this point about the economics behind miniature
production. I'd have guessed that metal bitz would be more expensive than
the plastics - you learn something new every day!

--
Ken Coble

I am just an aging drummer boy
And in the wars I used to play
And I've called the tune to many a torture session
Now they say I am a war criminal
And I'm fading away
Father, please hear my confession
-Dire Straits, "The Man's Too Strong"
 
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"Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qDb3e.11903$JL2.278224@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Spack wrote:
>> "Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> <snip>
>
>>> That makes perfect sense, actually. They can throw a small sprue in
>>> there with the chap-specific shoulders, and some of the typical
>>> bitz: swords and feathers for the Deathwing, wolf tails and teeth
>>> for the Wolf Guard, whatever. Who wants to bet on what the markup
>>> for that little 'extra' sprue will be, though? My money's on $10 US
>>> more per chapter-specific box.
>>
>> My money's on metal bitz, as the existing sprues already have the
>> generic shoulder pads on. Cutting a sprue for a relatively small
>> production run, and having to take another larger selling mould off
>> the production line to make them, would likely cost more than casting
>> up metal parts. A box would have the generic sprues plus the metal
>> bits, probably for an extra £5 (or if the financial people get
>> involved, £10).
>
> Wow, that's interesting. Despite a horrible summer job working QA in an
> injection molding plant (I worked on the line that made disposable pipette
> tips, yay), I didn't know this point about the economics behind miniature
> production. I'd have guessed that metal bitz would be more expensive than
> the plastics - you learn something new every day!

Had a chat to some of the plastics guys at GD last year - apparently GW only
have a limited number of machines, so if they need to produce a new sprue,
something has to come off the production line. It might not be cheaper part
for part to do smaller runs in metal, but when you factor in the cost of
creating the mould, production time lost changing moulds on a machine, and
the reduction in output of the sprue that the previous mounted mould was
for, it can result in being more cost effective to cast up lower level
productions in metal than plastic.

Dan
 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

> There are rumours that there will be chapter specific termy boxes
> released as the new codexes come out - basically the new plastics with
> chapter specific shoulder pads.
>
> Dan
>

They gave that rumor with the previous release of SM plastics along with
multi-part plastic SM scouts
 
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>> There are rumours that there will be chapter specific termy boxes
>> released as the new codexes come out - basically the new plastics with
>> chapter specific shoulder pads.
>
>> Dan
>
>
>
>They gave that rumor with the previous release of SM plastics along with
>multi-part plastic SM scouts

One of the recent FW newsletters alluded to the Chapter-specific Termie
shoulderpads Forge World is working on, including Wolf Guard ones.

Philip Bowles
 
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Kenneth Coble wrote:
> I guess what I was thinking was that the current Deathwing and Space Wolf
> Terminators are apparently smaller than the new plastic Termies or the
> current GK metal Termies. Has anyone heard if GW is thinking of resculpting
> the chapter-specific termies so they won't look puny compared to the new
> guys?

I am absolutely postive GW will provide Chapter-specific new metal bitz
or (probably) plastic sprues. The new Termies were specifically
designed to support Chapter-specific bitz with separate shoulder pads
and so forth. GW will probably hold on releasing Chapter Termies when
their 40k4 Codices are released for that push on something "new".

--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwang...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
 
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Spack wrote:
> "Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote ...

>>>>That makes perfect sense, actually. They can throw a small sprue in
>>>>there with the chap-specific shoulders, and some of the typical
>>>>bitz: swords and feathers for the Deathwing, wolf tails and teeth
>>>>for the Wolf Guard, whatever. Who wants to bet on what the markup
>>>>for that little 'extra' sprue will be, though? My money's on $10 US
>>>>more per chapter-specific box.

At the rate GW is increasing prices, that may be the case. I'd guess $5
USD, but then I'm not an especially greedy bastard.

>>>My money's on metal bitz, as the existing sprues already have the
>>>generic shoulder pads on. Cutting a sprue for a relatively small
>>>production run, and having to take another larger selling mould off
>>>the production line to make them, would likely cost more than casting
>>>up metal parts. A box would have the generic sprues plus the metal
>>>bits, probably for an extra £5 (or if the financial people get
>>>involved, £10).

That's a very short-sighted viewpoint. GW will convert everything to
plastic. It's just a matter of time. GW is making money hand over fist
with plastics, and using that money to buy more injection machines, more
molds, and so forth. This allows them to minimize profits by increasing
investment and tooling costs. But make no mistake: GW *will* do
Chapter Termie sprues. If not in 40k4, definitely for 40k5.

>>Wow, that's interesting. Despite a horrible summer job working QA in an
>>injection molding plant (I worked on the line that made disposable pipette
>>tips, yay), I didn't know this point about the economics behind miniature
>>production. I'd have guessed that metal bitz would be more expensive than
>>the plastics - you learn something new every day!

Designing and sculpting bitz costs about the same either way. The
difference is that metal bitz require rubber molds that can be made for
under $10 USD in materials and a relatively inexpensive metal casting
machine. Plastic sprues cost an order of magnitude more to create the
mold and buy the machine. However after investment costs are taken care
of, plastics are practically free to produce, whereas metal bitz have
actual materials and labor costs. Metal bitz also slowly destroy their
molds, whereas plastic molds last forever. This is why GW is moving to
plastics.

> Had a chat to some of the plastics guys at GD last year - apparently GW only
> have a limited number of machines, so if they need to produce a new sprue,
> something has to come off the production line. It might not be cheaper part
> for part to do smaller runs in metal, but when you factor in the cost of
> creating the mould, production time lost changing moulds on a machine, and
> the reduction in output of the sprue that the previous mounted mould was
> for, it can result in being more cost effective to cast up lower level
> productions in metal than plastic.

Yes, but GW is buying more and more machines. How? Because the savings
in plastics allows them to do so. When you think about what GW has
converted to plastic, and so forth, GW is definitely making money by
converting to plastics.

It just takes GW some time. And if you count the number of kits, total,
and as a percentage of each army, it is very clear that the rate of
conversion to plastic is definitely accelerating. GW is generating a
*lot* of profit to do this.


--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwang...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
 
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FW has Ultras already, bet they'll do the more detailed pads - purity
seals, scrolls, etc.., and GW will release more generic, chapter symbol
only pads.
 
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John Hwang wrote:
> Spack wrote:
>
>> "Kenneth Coble" <flintlocklaser@triad.rr.com> wrote ...
>
>
>>>>> That makes perfect sense, actually. They can throw a small sprue in
>>>>> there with the chap-specific shoulders, and some of the typical
>>>>> bitz: swords and feathers for the Deathwing, wolf tails and teeth
>>>>> for the Wolf Guard, whatever. Who wants to bet on what the markup
>>>>> for that little 'extra' sprue will be, though? My money's on $10 US
>>>>> more per chapter-specific box.
>
>
> At the rate GW is increasing prices, that may be the case. I'd guess $5
> USD, but then I'm not an especially greedy bastard.
>
>>>> My money's on metal bitz, as the existing sprues already have the
>>>> generic shoulder pads on. Cutting a sprue for a relatively small
>>>> production run, and having to take another larger selling mould off
>>>> the production line to make them, would likely cost more than casting
>>>> up metal parts. A box would have the generic sprues plus the metal
>>>> bits, probably for an extra £5 (or if the financial people get
>>>> involved, £10).
>
>
> That's a very short-sighted viewpoint. GW will convert everything to
> plastic. It's just a matter of time. GW is making money hand over fist
> with plastics, and using that money to buy more injection machines, more
> molds, and so forth. This allows them to minimize profits by increasing
> investment and tooling costs. But make no mistake: GW *will* do
> Chapter Termie sprues. If not in 40k4, definitely for 40k5.
>
>>> Wow, that's interesting. Despite a horrible summer job working QA in
>>> an injection molding plant (I worked on the line that made disposable
>>> pipette tips, yay), I didn't know this point about the economics
>>> behind miniature production. I'd have guessed that metal bitz would
>>> be more expensive than the plastics - you learn something new every day!
>
>
> Designing and sculpting bitz costs about the same either way. The
> difference is that metal bitz require rubber molds that can be made for
> under $10 USD in materials and a relatively inexpensive metal casting
> machine. Plastic sprues cost an order of magnitude more to create the
> mold and buy the machine. However after investment costs are taken care
> of, plastics are practically free to produce, whereas metal bitz have
> actual materials and labor costs. Metal bitz also slowly destroy their
> molds, whereas plastic molds last forever. This is why GW is moving to
> plastics.
>
>> Had a chat to some of the plastics guys at GD last year - apparently
>> GW only have a limited number of machines, so if they need to produce
>> a new sprue, something has to come off the production line. It might
>> not be cheaper part for part to do smaller runs in metal, but when you
>> factor in the cost of creating the mould, production time lost
>> changing moulds on a machine, and the reduction in output of the sprue
>> that the previous mounted mould was for, it can result in being more
>> cost effective to cast up lower level productions in metal than plastic.
>
>
> Yes, but GW is buying more and more machines. How? Because the savings
> in plastics allows them to do so. When you think about what GW has
> converted to plastic, and so forth, GW is definitely making money by
> converting to plastics.
>
> It just takes GW some time. And if you count the number of kits, total,
> and as a percentage of each army, it is very clear that the rate of
> conversion to plastic is definitely accelerating. GW is generating a
> *lot* of profit to do this.
>
>
I would futher say that buy Putting everythig in plastic box sets they
get to up thier price point compared to blisters. People buy the boxes
as they are better deals and can use the extra bits for whatever. This
makes the blisters sell less and eventually that can show that Metal
does not sell and put everything in $35-$50 plastic kits.
This seems like it would be huge profit due to the fact that Revell
sells thier 1/48 scale planes for $16-20 a $30 Rhino seems like a very
good deal for GW.
 
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In article <I01oe.12237$nG6.11676@attbi_s22>, Desert Joe,
jboster@ridgnet.barf Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
> John Hwang wrote:
<snip>
> > It just takes GW some time. And if you count the number of kits, total,
> > and as a percentage of each army, it is very clear that the rate of
> > conversion to plastic is definitely accelerating. GW is generating a
> > *lot* of profit to do this.
> >
> >
> I would futher say that buy Putting everythig in plastic box sets they
> get to up thier price point compared to blisters. People buy the boxes
> as they are better deals and can use the extra bits for whatever. This
> makes the blisters sell less and eventually that can show that Metal
> does not sell and put everything in $35-$50 plastic kits.
> This seems like it would be huge profit due to the fact that Revell
> sells thier 1/48 scale planes for $16-20 a $30 Rhino seems like a very
> good deal for GW.
>
I wince when I look at the prices of 1/48 and 1/35 scale armor
these days. Detailed kits run $45 to $80+ - OUCH! It's still been very
tempting though. :) I love the 8 wheeled (Russian / European) Infantry
transports and think they'd look sweet with an IG army. Ummmm - Armor!

Myr - Ummmmm, Beerrrr... - midon.


--
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and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."

-- Moramarth

RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org

Or...

http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
 
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"Myrmidon" <ImNot@home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d0a6d436c6e953798a583@news-server.woh.rr.com...
> In article <I01oe.12237$nG6.11676@attbi_s22>, Desert Joe,
> jboster@ridgnet.barf Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
>> John Hwang wrote:
> <snip>
>> > It just takes GW some time. And if you count the number of kits,
>> > total,
>> > and as a percentage of each army, it is very clear that the rate of
>> > conversion to plastic is definitely accelerating. GW is generating a
>> > *lot* of profit to do this.
>> >
>> >
>> I would futher say that buy Putting everythig in plastic box sets they
>> get to up thier price point compared to blisters. People buy the boxes
>> as they are better deals and can use the extra bits for whatever. This
>> makes the blisters sell less and eventually that can show that Metal
>> does not sell and put everything in $35-$50 plastic kits.
>> This seems like it would be huge profit due to the fact that Revell
>> sells thier 1/48 scale planes for $16-20 a $30 Rhino seems like a very
>> good deal for GW.
>>
> I wince when I look at the prices of 1/48 and 1/35 scale armor
> these days. Detailed kits run $45 to $80+ - OUCH! It's still been very
> tempting though. :) I love the 8 wheeled (Russian / European) Infantry
> transports and think they'd look sweet with an IG army. Ummmm - Armor!
>

The new 1/48 scale stuff from Tamiya is just about the perfect size for 28mm
and are quite reasonably priced at around $20 US or so. My IG force is going
to be supported by Shermans.