Why do New Zealanders find Americans so fascinating?

Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

Since I've seen Rob post this heading a few times, thought we could
find out why?
Kevin
39 answers Last reply
More about zealanders find americans fascinating
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Lep said

    > Since I've seen Rob post this heading a few times, thought we could
    > find out why?

    I take it that what you're trying to ask is why I've started threads
    with apparent derogatory comments about Americans?

    Well Lep, me lad, look at the people who react negatively to them, and look
    at the people - Americans included - who just get into the swing of things.
    I've been posting here since about '97 IIRC and that whole time people have
    made jokes about my nationality. Just recently Myr made jokes about NZ
    being full of Hobbits when he knows damn well we ate them all. I don't
    take it personally. I can laugh about my nation as much as the next man -
    unless they're Aussies because those sheep shagging bastards can just piss
    off.

    Anyway back to the respondees. Kenneth gets really shitty, but Kenneth has
    also displayed an appalling knowledge of geography and countries, including
    his own. How does he know that what I'm saying isn't true? Why is he
    being so defensive? Why can't he have a laugh about being American? I'd
    understand it if he were Canadian - pretending to be a real country and
    all.

    Perhaps he just needs some good lovin' from the rest of us to help cheer
    him up? Or maybe he just needs a good sausage roll with a bit of black
    sauce and some chips.

    --
    Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
    Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
    "I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
    Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Kenneth Coble said

    > Seriously, I'm all about having a laugh at being an American - you
    > pretty much have to be if you don't want to go crazy in our current
    > political climate. I'm really hoping we can chalk all this up to some
    > weird misunderstanding on both our parts, then you can get back to
    > your sheepshagging and I can get back to my unbridled imperialist
    > aggression (NB: this is a joke).

    Really now Kenneth. It doesn't work as a joke if you tell everyone it's a
    joke.

    As for the knowledge of geography, my apologies, it appears it was Brion K.
    Lienhart. I'm not 100% certain also you haven't because google groups is
    now so fubared it's hard to search the archieves, but you get an apology
    anyway :-)

    --
    Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
    Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
    "I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
    Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Robert Singers wrote:
    > Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Kenneth Coble said
    >
    >> Seriously, I'm all about having a laugh at being an American - you
    >> pretty much have to be if you don't want to go crazy in our current
    >> political climate. I'm really hoping we can chalk all this up to
    >> some weird misunderstanding on both our parts, then you can get back
    >> to your sheepshagging and I can get back to my unbridled imperialist
    >> aggression (NB: this is a joke).
    >
    > Really now Kenneth. It doesn't work as a joke if you tell everyone
    > it's a joke.
    >
    > As for the knowledge of geography, my apologies, it appears it was
    > Brion K. Lienhart. I'm not 100% certain also you haven't because
    > google groups is now so fubared it's hard to search the archieves,
    > but you get an apology anyway :-)

    Heh... no worries. And again, I wasn't trying to start a fight on the
    thread above this one, I was (perhaps unsuccessfully) trying to fish for
    your reasons. Looking back on it now it looks less like the clever send-up
    I thought I was writing, and more like whiny bitching, for which I
    apologize.

    The main thing is that I hope we've established that I'm not ignorant on
    geography. While I do tend to laugh off most digs at Americans, the one
    that I tend to get irked about is the notion that we don't care about the
    rest of the world. Of course, this one bothers me the most because with a
    lot of Americans, it's usually all too true. Nothing makes me cringe more
    than seeing a news story about our educational system where they ask high
    school grads to find places on a map of the world. They cant even find
    _America_ sometimes. God, I get a little queasy just thinking about it.
    And since I've made some effort specifically to not be like that, I really
    hope I haven't come across that way here.

    Anyway, no blood, no foul, as my high school PhysEd teachers used to say.
    No hard feelings on this end, and I hope it's the same on your end.

    --
    Ken Coble

    One of our guards went berserk, burned fifteen prisoners to death, and
    fought the other guards all night with swords of white and blue fire.
    He was not replaced.
    -Gene Wolfe, _The Fifth Head of Cerberus_
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    In article <Xns967770F91AD85rsingers@IP-Hidden>, Robert Singers,
    rsingers@finger.hotmail.com Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
    > Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Lep said
    >
    > > Since I've seen Rob post this heading a few times, thought we could
    > > find out why?
    >
    > I take it that what you're trying to ask is why I've started threads
    > with apparent derogatory comments about Americans?
    >
    > Well Lep, me lad, look at the people who react negatively to them, and look
    > at the people - Americans included - who just get into the swing of things.

    Yeah Baby! Yeah! - oh wait, he was supposed to be English...
    (Damn culture blindness.)

    > I've been posting here since about '97 IIRC and that whole time people have
    > made jokes about my nationality. Just recently Myr made jokes about NZ
    > being full of Hobbits when he knows damn well we ate them all. I don't
    > take it personally.

    I'm seriously pissed. Singers didn't even so much as email me a
    single Hobbity Bacon-Buttie. Nor has he offered up even a single decent
    marinade for Hobbit steak. I'm thinking that's just selfish right
    there, but I'm a bigger man than that (particularly the hair).

    > I can laugh about my nation as much as the next man -

    Ha! You're not fooling us. You live in the boonies anyway and
    don't have next-door neighbors. We've all seen the shots of Rohan!
    Though I suppose it could be worse and you'd have a whole forest full of
    those fruity elves for neighbors.

    > unless they're Aussies because those sheep shagging bastards can just piss
    > off.

    See, there we go with the whole 'fruity elves' thing again...
    Besides, how can you *NOT* laugh at the aussies? They've got plastic
    money for crying out loud! How does the rest of the world even know
    that they didn't just buy up a lot of Monopoly sets on the cheap and
    start using the stuff for currency?

    >
    > Anyway back to the respondees. Kenneth gets really shitty, but Kenneth has
    > also displayed an appalling knowledge of geography and countries, including
    > his own. How does he know that what I'm saying isn't true? Why is he
    > being so defensive? Why can't he have a laugh about being American?

    Let me be the first Merkin to say it: "WE DIDN'T LOOSE NAM!" Ok,
    get over it everyone. If it weren't for us, the only people in the
    world with decent footwear would be the Italians.

    > I'd
    > understand it if he were Canadian - pretending to be a real country and
    > all.

    Ooooh! Now you're just trying to goad Blank_Dave into building a
    bigger form flame. Shame on you! :)
    >
    > Perhaps he just needs some good lovin' from the rest of us to help cheer
    > him up? Or maybe he just needs a good sausage roll with a bit of black
    > sauce and some chips.

    You see! You see! There goes Singers - taunting me with that
    damn Hobbit food again! Curse you Singers! You'll rue the day!


    Myrmidon :)

    Now I've got to go grill a steak...


    --
    "I'm already impoverished from buying wargames minis,
    and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."

    -- Moramarth

    RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org

    Or...

    http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 01:47:59 GMT, Myrmidon <ImNot@home.com> wrote:

    > Let me be the first Merkin to say it: "WE DIDN'T LOOSE NAM!" Ok,
    >get over it everyone.

    Let me be the first to qualify that: The American soldiers didn't
    lose Nam. Heck, they were winning handily in most cases.
    Unfortunately, the politicians wanted the votes of the protesters, so
    they backed them and told the NV leaders they didn't have to win, just
    keep on throwing bodies into the war until the American people finally
    demanded that our troops be brought home. It's the same tactic they
    admitted they used on the French, and one that the terrorists in Iraq
    are trying to use today. If the same people had been around at the
    time of WWII, we would have "lost" that war too.

    Sorry, I just had to make sure no one got the impression that our
    soldiers failed their job. It's bad enough they got pissed on when
    they got home (sometimes literally), it's even worse that they too
    often get blamed by uninformed people of losing the war.
    -Erik
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    > I can laugh about my nation as much as the next man -
    > unless they're Aussies because those sheep shagging bastards can just piss
    > off.

    *snicker* Rob has nation envy.

    Carn the crows!!!
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Erik Setzer wrote:
    > On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 01:47:59 GMT, Myrmidon <ImNot@home.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Let me be the first Merkin to say it: "WE DIDN'T LOOSE NAM!" Ok,
    >>get over it everyone.
    >
    >
    > Let me be the first to qualify that: The American soldiers didn't
    > lose Nam. Heck, they were winning handily in most cases.
    > Unfortunately, the politicians wanted the votes of the protesters, so
    > they backed them and told the NV leaders they didn't have to win, just
    > keep on throwing bodies into the war until the American people finally
    > demanded that our troops be brought home. It's the same tactic they
    > admitted they used on the French, and one that the terrorists in Iraq
    > are trying to use today. If the same people had been around at the
    > time of WWII, we would have "lost" that war too.

    Putting it slightly differently, military victory was not consiered to
    be worth the cost in US lives (lives of people in Vietnam on any side
    not really being a significant factor in the equation). It should
    surprise no-one that the US had a lower tollerance for casualties than
    their enemy, after all, they weren't fighting for the very existance of
    their ideology on their home soil. I doubt the level of casualties
    suffered by the S in WWII would have been considered acceptable if the
    threat to the US was considerably less great.

    > Sorry, I just had to make sure no one got the impression that our
    > soldiers failed their job. It's bad enough they got pissed on when
    > they got home (sometimes literally), it's even worse that they too
    > often get blamed by uninformed people of losing the war.
    > -Erik


    --
    =/\= Lt. Cmdr. Jim =/\=
    By our chocolate, shall they know us.
    Not on behalf of any committee, real or imaginary, in this or any other
    universe.
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Myrmidon said

    > In article <Xns967770F91AD85rsingers@IP-Hidden>, Robert Singers,
    > rsingers@finger.hotmail.com Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
    >> Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Lep said
    >>
    >> > Since I've seen Rob post this heading a few times, thought we could
    >> > find out why?
    >>
    >> I take it that what you're trying to ask is why I've started threads
    >> with apparent derogatory comments about Americans?
    >>
    >> Well Lep, me lad, look at the people who react negatively to them,
    >> and look at the people - Americans included - who just get into the
    >> swing of things.
    >
    > Yeah Baby! Yeah! - oh wait, he was supposed to be English...
    > (Damn culture blindness.)

    Well in that the American writers had given him bad teeth yes. But do
    Englishmen really shag all your women?

    >> I've been posting here since about '97 IIRC and that whole time
    >> people have made jokes about my nationality. Just recently Myr made
    >> jokes about NZ being full of Hobbits when he knows damn well we ate
    >> them all. I don't take it personally.
    >
    > I'm seriously pissed. Singers didn't even so much as email me a
    > single Hobbity Bacon-Buttie. Nor has he offered up even a single
    > decent marinade for Hobbit steak. I'm thinking that's just selfish
    > right there, but I'm a bigger man than that (particularly the hair).

    Blame your US protectionist agricultural laws. We'd have loved to export
    Hobbits to the US.

    >> I can laugh about my nation as much as the next man -
    >
    > Ha! You're not fooling us. You live in the boonies anyway and
    > don't have next-door neighbors. We've all seen the shots of Rohan!
    > Though I suppose it could be worse and you'd have a whole forest full
    > of those fruity elves for neighbors.

    Who all moonlight as soup actors.

    >> unless they're Aussies because those sheep shagging bastards can just
    >> piss off.
    >
    > See, there we go with the whole 'fruity elves' thing again...
    > Besides, how can you *NOT* laugh at the aussies? They've got plastic
    > money for crying out loud! How does the rest of the world even know
    > that they didn't just buy up a lot of Monopoly sets on the cheap and
    > start using the stuff for currency?

    Actually what's really stoooopid about their money is that the $2 coin is
    smaller than the $1 coin, and their notes are funny colours. And the $5
    doesn't have Sir Ed on it, and everyone knows that Sir Ed is the greatest
    Bloke of the 20th century. Any US money is dumb because it's all the
    same colour and you don't have $1 coins for sticking in coke machines.

    >> Anyway back to the respondees. Kenneth gets really shitty, but
    >> Kenneth has also displayed an appalling knowledge of geography and
    >> countries, including his own. How does he know that what I'm saying
    >> isn't true? Why is he being so defensive? Why can't he have a laugh
    >> about being American?
    >
    > Let me be the first Merkin to say it: "WE DIDN'T LOOSE NAM!" Ok,
    > get over it everyone. If it weren't for us, the only people in the
    > world with decent footwear would be the Italians.

    I'm not entirely sure what that means, but I might post a pic of me in my
    OCC t-shirt when it arrives.

    >> I'd
    >> understand it if he were Canadian - pretending to be a real country
    >> and all.
    >
    > Ooooh! Now you're just trying to goad Blank_Dave into building a
    > bigger form flame. Shame on you! :)

    Bah Blank Dave can't build a bigger form flame.

    >> Perhaps he just needs some good lovin' from the rest of us to help
    >> cheer him up? Or maybe he just needs a good sausage roll with a bit
    >> of black sauce and some chips.
    >
    > You see! You see! There goes Singers - taunting me with that
    > damn Hobbit food again! Curse you Singers! You'll rue the day!

    Hobbit you can't handle hobbit.

    > Now I've got to go grill a steak...

    Grass fed or tasteless corn fed?

    --
    Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
    Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
    "I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
    Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    It was a cold day in September when Robert Singers entered the world pub
    known as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...

    > Any US money is dumb because it's all the
    > same colour and you don't have $1 coins for sticking in coke machines.
    >

    The newer bills are multicolored, and we do have one dollar coins, but our
    soda machines take bills so we don't need to use dollar coins for them. on
    the other hand our money has absolutely no inherent value today, unlike the
    pre 1964 U.S. currency which could be traded in for a set amount of
    Silver...

    --
    Jim M

    "Look alive. Here comes a buzzard." -- Walt Kelly (Pogo)
    "The only game I like to play is Old Maid - provided she's not too old." --
    Groucho Marx

    http://jimac.tripod.com
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    "Robert Singers" <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:Xns9677CC1D36EB4rsingers@IP-Hidden...
    > Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Myrmidon said

    >> Now I've got to go grill a steak...
    >
    > Grass fed or tasteless corn fed?

    If it's your typical US livestock, grain fed, among other things.
    You don't really want to know what the "other things" are...

    hackCOUGHmeatbyproductsCOUGHsteroidsCOUGHcough!


    --

    -smithdoerr
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    On 6/16/05 4:04 AM, in article Xns9677CC1D36EB4rsingers@IP-Hidden, "Robert
    Singers" <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote:

    >
    >> Now I've got to go grill a steak...
    >
    > Grass fed or tasteless corn fed?

    That grass better be for medicinal purposes only.

    janet
    --
    Crimes, like virtues, are their own reward.
    George Farquhar
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Between saving the world and having a spot of tea elfbard said

    >> I can laugh about my nation as much as the next man -
    >> unless they're Aussies because those sheep shagging bastards can just
    >> piss off.
    >
    > *snicker* Rob has nation envy.
    >
    > Carn the crows!!!

    At least NZ actors don't assualt people with phones.

    --
    Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
    Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
    "I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
    Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    In article <Xns9677CC306C119rsingers@IP-Hidden>,
    rsingers@finger.hotmail.com says...
    > Between saving the world and having a spot of tea elfbard said
    >
    > >> I can laugh about my nation as much as the next man -
    > >> unless they're Aussies because those sheep shagging bastards can just
    > >> piss off.
    > >
    > > *snicker* Rob has nation envy.
    > >
    > > Carn the crows!!!
    >
    > At least NZ actors don't assualt people with phones.

    Where was Rusty born again?

    Brad

    --

    Don't bother with the yahoo address - I never read it.
    bjhann at hotkey dot net dot au
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Kenneth Coble said
    [snip]
    >> As for the knowledge of geography, my apologies, it appears it was
    >> Brion K. Lienhart. I'm not 100% certain also you haven't because
    >> google groups is now so fubared it's hard to search the archieves,
    >> but you get an apology anyway :-)
    >
    > Heh... no worries. And again, I wasn't trying to start a fight on the
    > thread above this one, I was (perhaps unsuccessfully) trying to fish
    > for your reasons. Looking back on it now it looks less like the
    > clever send-up I thought I was writing, and more like whiny bitching,
    > for which I apologize.

    One would almost wonder if you're asking to be spanked.

    --
    Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
    Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
    "I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
    Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Brad Hann said

    > Where was Rusty born again?

    Rusty the famous Australian country musician?

    --
    Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
    Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
    "I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
    Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    In article <1118929175.c29f90bd0e848c86b20f8996a80a7a5c@teranews>,
    smithdoerr, askmeforname@vodafone.it Varfed out the following in Timo
    speak...
    >
    > "Robert Singers" <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9677CC1D36EB4rsingers@IP-Hidden...
    > > Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Myrmidon said
    >
    > >> Now I've got to go grill a steak...
    > >
    > > Grass fed or tasteless corn fed?
    >
    > If it's your typical US livestock, grain fed, among other things.
    > You don't really want to know what the "other things" are...
    >
    > hackCOUGHmeatbyproductsCOUGHsteroidsCOUGHcough!

    Oh pish-posh! That's just the 'Mad Cow' flavored meat.

    Myr :)

    --
    "I'm already impoverished from buying wargames minis,
    and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."

    -- Moramarth

    RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org

    Or...

    http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    "Myrmidon" <ImNot@home.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1d1bd84bdf28a5df98a597@news-server.woh.rr.com...
    > In article
    > <1118929175.c29f90bd0e848c86b20f8996a80a7a5c@teranews>,
    > smithdoerr, askmeforname@vodafone.it Varfed out the following
    > in Timo
    > speak...
    >>
    >> "Robert Singers" <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in
    >> message
    >> news:Xns9677CC1D36EB4rsingers@IP-Hidden...
    >> > Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Myrmidon
    >> > said
    >>
    >> >> Now I've got to go grill a steak...
    >> >
    >> > Grass fed or tasteless corn fed?
    >>
    >> If it's your typical US livestock, grain fed, among other
    >> things.
    >> You don't really want to know what the "other things" are...
    >>
    >> hackCOUGHmeatbyproductsCOUGHsteroidsCOUGHcough!
    >
    > Oh pish-posh! That's just the 'Mad Cow' flavored meat.

    Cows fattened up with the meat byproducts of other slaughtered
    cows. MMMmmmmm, it's cannibalicious!

    That reminds me, I need to eat more chianina beef while I still
    can before returning to the states in a few weeks.


    --

    -smithdoerr
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    It was a cold day in September when Janet Quick entered the world pub known
    as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...

    > On 6/16/05 4:04 AM, in article Xns9677CC1D36EB4rsingers@IP-Hidden, "Robert
    > Singers" <rsingers@finger.hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >> Now I've got to go grill a steak...
    > >
    > > Grass fed or tasteless corn fed?
    >
    > That grass better be for medicinal purposes only.
    >
    Hey you have to keep the cows happy somehow...


    --
    Jim M

    "Look alive. Here comes a buzzard." -- Walt Kelly (Pogo)
    "The only game I like to play is Old Maid - provided she's not too old." --
    Groucho Marx

    http://jimac.tripod.com
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    On 6/17/05 7:05 PM, in article 3hh38vFgua6tU1@individual.net, "Lt. Cmdr.
    Jim" <ltcmdrjim@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > Erik Setzer wrote:

    >
    >> The reaction the
    >> soldiers got from those people when they returned home proved that the
    >> stance against Vietnam had nothing to do with worrying about the
    >> soldiers in Vietnam.
    >
    > Again, you are, I think, putting too much faih in the idea that this was
    > a cohesive group.

    The reaction the soldiers received from SOME people when they returned is an
    example of the same blind blaming of a whole (vast and varied) group for the
    acts of some of it's members. Those folks thought they were being all noble
    and life-loving and against war. Just as you think you are being all
    patriotic and supportive of the soldiers.

    Let me practice a little bit of your rhetoric: if you love the soldiers so
    much then why do you want to keep them in Iraq where 2-5 are killed every
    day?

    Unfair question? Yes, it absolutely is.

    janet
    --
    Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and get
    used to the idea.
    Robert A. Heinlein
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Between saving the world and having a spot of tea smithdoerr said
    [snip]
    > Was that in _Fast Food Nation_? I must have mentally blocked
    > that part out.

    No I remember listening to a radio documentary about US agriculture. I'm
    supprised you're not actually called the Socialist Republics of America.

    --
    Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
    Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
    "I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
    Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 00:05:03 +0100, "Lt. Cmdr. Jim"
    <ltcmdrjim@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >To kill and die to protect your
    >country from an immediate agressor is one thing, to do the same to
    >further some political end you don't support is quite annother.

    And on that note, I give up. If people are too stupid to understand
    that protecting people from an invading force that they don't want is
    not "furthering some political end", it's not worth worrying about
    them. If Vietnam was to further some political end, then so was
    Korea, WWI, WWII, Desert Storm, Bosnia, Kosovo, Somolia, and every war
    in between. WWI was no threat to the US. WWII, only Japan was much
    of a threat - the real threat in Europe was from our "allies", the
    Soviets. So I guess then that people should have been just as eager
    to run from those wars?

    I stand by my view. The generation of the 60s had too many cowards.
    They wouldn't have joined the army even to protect America.
    -Erik
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:39:52 -0400, Janet Quick <janetq@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >On 6/17/05 7:05 PM, in article 3hh38vFgua6tU1@individual.net, "Lt. Cmdr.
    >Jim" <ltcmdrjim@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Erik Setzer wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>> The reaction the
    >>> soldiers got from those people when they returned home proved that the
    >>> stance against Vietnam had nothing to do with worrying about the
    >>> soldiers in Vietnam.
    >>
    >> Again, you are, I think, putting too much faih in the idea that this was
    >> a cohesive group.
    >
    >The reaction the soldiers received from SOME people when they returned is an
    >example of the same blind blaming of a whole (vast and varied) group for the
    >acts of some of it's members. Those folks thought they were being all noble
    >and life-loving and against war. Just as you think you are being all
    >patriotic and supportive of the soldiers.
    >
    >Let me practice a little bit of your rhetoric: if you love the soldiers so
    >much then why do you want to keep them in Iraq where 2-5 are killed every
    >day?


    Simple. Because I don't value American lives tenfold over Iraqi
    lives. Sure, it's easy to turn a blind eye and let mass graves
    continue to be filled up, or let madmen turn to their nuclear weapons
    and leave them be in the fear that Americans will die. But if the
    noble sacrifice of two thousand men will prevent the horrors that
    Saddam perpetuated against his own people, and crush the terrorists in
    Iraq, then that is what must happen. Ask the men serving over there.
    They know their duty is to fight for the people who cannot fight for
    themselves. They know it's dangerous work. I wish that no more men
    would die. But if we pulled them all out, what then would happen?
    Thousands more Iraqis would die, and the nation would fall back into
    the hands of a dictatorship. The shining beacon of hope for the
    Middle East would fall apart, and our best chance to help that region
    would be gone with it.

    In WWII 10,000 men died in just over a month taking some worthless
    island that was better off bombed and passed over. In over two years
    in Iraq we haven't lost two thousand men, and we've handed out a much
    higher body count to the terrorists. Was it worth it when we were
    pressing on against Japan, even after it had ceased to be a threat to
    our soil?

    It's a shame that good men must die this way. But without that
    sacrifice, the world would be a much worse place. So yes, while I
    love the soldiers of the American military, I also value freedom and
    democracy, and the lives of countless people around the world who
    cannot stand up for themselves. And for that reason I support staying
    in Iraq until the job is done.
    -Erik
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Lep wrote:
    > Since I've seen Rob post this heading a few times, thought we could
    > find out why?
    > Kevin
    >

    Because we have actual women, and they have to setttle for sheep.
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    It was a cold day in September when Erik Setzer entered the world pub known
    as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...

    > On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 00:05:03 +0100, "Lt. Cmdr. Jim"
    > <ltcmdrjim@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >To kill and die to protect your
    > >country from an immediate agressor is one thing, to do the same to
    > >further some political end you don't support is quite annother.
    >
    > And on that note, I give up. If people are too stupid to understand
    > that protecting people from an invading force that they don't want is
    > not "furthering some political end", it's not worth worrying about
    > them. If Vietnam was to further some political end, then so was
    > Korea, WWI, WWII, Desert Storm, Bosnia, Kosovo, Somolia, and every war
    > in between. WWI was no threat to the US. WWII, only Japan was much
    > of a threat - the real threat in Europe was from our "allies", the
    > Soviets. So I guess then that people should have been just as eager
    > to run from those wars?
    >

    That's right the U.S. was "protecting" the Vietnamese minority from an
    invading force of Vietnamese that the U.S. did not want in control of that
    country. When the U.S. intervened (taking over from the French btw) it was
    to stop the spread of communism, which already had most of Vietnam in their
    grip, we were helping the MINORITY POLITICAL party in a third world country.
    That MINORITY party wanted us there in order that they could rule rather
    then the Majority party. The war was lost before Kennedy ever committed the
    first advisors to train the Vietnamese. He was also adamant about not
    escalating the war, in direct opposition to the wishes of his vice
    president. When Johnson took over after the assassination of Kennedy his
    first act was to start sending troops to Vietnam. Within two years the
    Citizens of the U.S. realized that we were in an unwinnable war and started
    demanding that the U.S. pull out, Johnson refused and instead committed more
    and more troops and equipment. Now comes the amazing part the company that
    owned the transport panes going into Vietnam was owned by Lady Bird Johnson,
    and they made Millions of Dollars from the War. All under the protestation
    of the majority of the U.S. citizens. Vietnam was never a threat to the U.S.
    in any form, unlike Sadam Hussein who actually was a viable threat. You can
    not compare the two reasons of the conflicts any more then you can compare
    the shape of an apple and a bannana and say they are both round.

    > I stand by my view. The generation of the 60s had too many cowards.
    > They wouldn't have joined the army even to protect America.

    The '60s produced many fine soldiers and patriots, possibly more then any
    other generation, but they didn't want to fight in an unwinnable war, that
    did nothing but line the pockets of a few politicians. There is another key
    difference between Vietnam and Iraq btw, the Soldiers in Vietnam had no
    choice but to be there as they were conscripted into military service, the
    Soldiers currently in Iraq are 100% volunteers, they are there because they
    WANT to serve. My nephew (A sergeant in the 101st airborne btw) is going
    back to Iraq in December. He has told me that we NEED to be there. I never
    heard one soldier that came back from Vietnam say that, most said the exact
    opposite that we had no BUSINESS being there.

    Why do I support the War in Iraq, not because the President said we need to
    follow through but because of what my nephew has told me. I trust him as a
    soldier on the ground a whole hell of a lot more then I do the President...
    --
    Jim M

    "Look alive. Here comes a buzzard." -- Walt Kelly (Pogo)
    "The only game I like to play is Old Maid - provided she's not too old." --
    Groucho Marx

    http://jimac.tripod.com
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    <BIG SNIP>

    To save any more time, let's review.

    My opinions:

    1) Vietnam was a just war.
    2) Vietnam protestors were wrong.
    3) American soldiers did not commit atrocities en masse.
    4) John Kerry is a traitor.
    5) Draft dodgers are cowards.

    Your opinions (I could be mixing in someone else's, if so I
    apologize):

    1) Vietnam was a war for money.
    2) Vietnam protestors were doing the right thing.
    3) American soldiers commited a lot of atrocities.
    4) John Kerry is a hero.
    5) Draft dodgers are heros.

    Yes, I am overly simplifying, but for time's sake.

    On five points we're total opposites. At this point further
    debate/discussion would be a moot point. I won't change your mind,
    you won't change my mind. All we do is get more vitriolic toward each
    other, and that's a useless thing to do.

    I apologize for all comments you might have found offensive. I will
    continue to hold my position, but it should be my right to have an
    opinion that differs from yours, just as you have a right to differ
    with my opinion. I cannot honestly say I respect your opinions, but I
    respect that you have them and believe in them so firmly. Perhaps if
    I wasn't so fervently against the people who spat on our soldiers when
    they came home, an event that still pissed me off to this day, I could
    see things in a more moderate light. However, my opinions are tainted
    by who I know (and I am not refering to my father in any way) and my
    own tendency to hold strong opinions.

    There is a price rise going into effect by Games Workshop next month,
    and instead of bitching about it, we're griping back and forth about
    something totally off-topic - Vietnam, Michael Jackson, John Kerry,
    etc. I know it's the RGMW way to have off-topic discussions, and at
    times it's been the norm to carry on until one side finally exploded.
    But as we all know, RGMW isn't what it once was, and I doubt these are
    the kind of off-topic discussions anyone wants to see. No, I'm
    reasonably certain that discussions of Dr. Who are a lot more
    interesting, and less likely to offend someone (I hope).

    So let's just agree to disagree (I know, what a copout, huh?) and get
    on to what we should be doing - tearing into Games Workshop for
    raising the prices, vowing to boycott their products, and screaming
    about the evil money grubbers as we pull out our wallets and fork over
    $200 for the new Carnifex.

    On a last note, I'm not going to KF this thread, but if you have
    something you really want to say to me, send it via e-mail, and keep
    in mind that I'm very unlikely to change my opinion. Doesn't mean you
    can't try to "enlighten" me - if that's your cup of tea, then by all
    means do so. But it's better to do so in private than on this
    newsgroup.
    -Erik
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Robert Singers wrote:

    > Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Kenneth Coble said
    >
    >
    >>Seriously, I'm all about having a laugh at being an American - you
    >>pretty much have to be if you don't want to go crazy in our current
    >>political climate. I'm really hoping we can chalk all this up to some
    >>weird misunderstanding on both our parts, then you can get back to
    >>your sheepshagging and I can get back to my unbridled imperialist
    >>aggression (NB: this is a joke).
    >
    >
    > Really now Kenneth. It doesn't work as a joke if you tell everyone it's a
    > joke.
    >
    > As for the knowledge of geography, my apologies, it appears it was Brion K.
    > Lienhart. I'm not 100% certain also you haven't because google groups is
    > now so fubared it's hard to search the archieves, but you get an apology
    > anyway :-)
    >

    Ignorance of geography? I know the difference between N Zed and Oz, I
    just didn't remember where you lived. Do you know where I live? (besides
    in the US?)

    New Zealand, Official Motto "Thank god we're not Tasmanian."
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Jim M wrote:

    > My nephew (A sergeant in the 101st airborne btw) is going
    > back to Iraq in December. He has told me that we NEED to be there.

    Best of luck to him. I've plenty mixed feelings about it all having
    started in the first place, but I'm sure not going to argue with him at
    this stage - here's hoping he achieves what he's set out to do and walks
    away satisfied.

    --
    flippa@flippac.org

    Ivanova is always right.
    I will listen to Ivanova.
    I will not ignore Ivanova's recomendations.
    Ivanova is God.
    And, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out!
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Just a little quote for those who like to believe that war has changed over
    time.


    "[We] have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to
    escape with dignity and honour. [We] have been tricked into it by a steady
    withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere,
    incomplete. Things have been far worse than we have been told, our
    administration more bloody and inefficient than the public knows... Our
    unfortunate troops,... under hard conditions of climate and supply, are
    policing an immense area, paying dearly every day in lives for the willfully
    wrong policy of the civil administration in Baghdad." - T.E. Lawrence,
    Sunday Times of London, August 22, 1920
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    It was a cold day in September when Erik Setzer entered the world pub known
    as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...

    <Snipped it all>
    http://www.san.beck.org/GPJ26-VietnamWar.html
    go to that web site and read it, I am not trying to change your mind, I just
    want you to read it, though I would be interested in your thoughts on it
    afterwards, you can e-mail them to me if you wish...

    --
    Jim M

    "Look alive. Here comes a buzzard." -- Walt Kelly (Pogo)
    "The only game I like to play is Old Maid - provided she's not too old." --
    Groucho Marx

    http://jimac.tripod.com
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Brion K. Lienhart said

    > Ignorance of geography? I know the difference between N Zed and Oz, I
    > just didn't remember where you lived. Do you know where I live?
    > (besides in the US?)

    When I googled back that wasn't was I was looking for, and I doubt you
    know anything about either country. I'd forgotten about that bout of
    stupidity on your part. Living in Australia wouldn't make me an
    Australian moron.

    As for where you live. That's a non sequitar but from your header info
    it appears California. Now IIRC state flag has a Bear on it, president
    is some Austrian Mr Universe doll, and everyone starts their sentences
    with 'Like you know'.[1]

    > New Zealand, Official Motto "Thank god we're not Tasmanian."

    Way to go there, proving how ignorant you're not.

    [1] Can't you just hear all the other Americans going "it's so true",
    and John missing the point entirely"?

    --
    Rob Singers
    RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
    Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
    "I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Brion K. Lienhart said

    > Lep wrote:
    >> Since I've seen Rob post this heading a few times, thought we could
    >> find out why?
    >
    > Because we have actual women, and they have to setttle for sheep.

    The more you post Brion the more your chances of convincing someone that
    you've been with a woman approaches zero.

    And for the record I do own a sheep. It's currently in paddock getting
    fat. When I've finished eating the one in the freezer it'll get butchered
    as well. My biggest problem is that I haven't quite managed to get enough
    Rosemary growing for seasoning. Far to wet lately.

    --
    Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
    Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
    "I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
    Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    It was a cold day in September when Lt. Cmdr. Jim entered the world pub
    known as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...

    > > In all cases, I'd like to see the US take the
    > > Israel approach - strike fast, smash all air defenses, then use air
    > > superiority and superior troops to quickly drive a wedge through a
    > > nation all the way into its capital. Anything else will likely
    > > prolong the war needlessly, and that will cost lives that shouldn't
    > > have been lost - American and otherwise.
    >
    > So, the nation's infrastructure has been crippled, standing military
    > units are scattered, destroyed or surrendered, and you hold the capital.
    > What then?
    >
    >
    Isn't that what we have done in Iraq?
    --
    Jim M

    "Look alive. Here comes a buzzard." -- Walt Kelly (Pogo)
    "The only game I like to play is Old Maid - provided she's not too old." --
    Groucho Marx

    http://jimac.tripod.com
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    In article <MPG.1d1e0e58d70b68ee98a59c@news-server.woh.rr.com>, Myrmidon wrote:

    > Ha! I'm not worried about Mad Cow disease. I'm a helicopter.

    LOL!

    --
    Joakim
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Robert Singers wrote:
    > Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Brion K. Lienhart said
    >
    >
    >>Lep wrote:
    >>
    >>>Since I've seen Rob post this heading a few times, thought we could
    >>>find out why?
    >>
    >>Because we have actual women, and they have to setttle for sheep.
    >
    >
    > The more you post Brion the more your chances of convincing someone that
    > you've been with a woman approaches zero.
    >
    > And for the record I do own a sheep. It's currently in paddock getting
    > fat. When I've finished eating the one in the freezer it'll get butchered
    > as well. My biggest problem is that I haven't quite managed to get enough
    > Rosemary growing for seasoning. Far to wet lately.
    >
    Ah, so you call her Rosemary, how quiant! :)
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    "Erik Setzer" <erks@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:msa8b1dp3niq5ontsphagt7rfu1h48ad74@4ax.com...
    > <BIG SNIP>
    >
    <REAL BIG SNIP>

    Jane, you ignorant slut....(This was before your time, Erik).Erik, you do
    polarize an NG. Never thought I would say this. A little maturity and
    experience may soften your stance on things, otherwise, now I know why you
    get shunned. Man...I am speechless..Say so much and know so little. Buy a
    newspaper for god's sake. Some fellows have asked you to read a little
    history here. Take their advice. They even placed links to get there
    easier(it is those little blue letters...click on them). I am afraid I will
    not try to enlighten you. Enlighting means you are welcome to be taught. I
    do not think you want to be. I wish you well..

    berto
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:24:32 -0500, "Berto" <Albertocarro@msn.com>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Erik Setzer" <erks@comcast.net> wrote in message
    >news:msa8b1dp3niq5ontsphagt7rfu1h48ad74@4ax.com...
    >> <BIG SNIP>
    >>
    ><REAL BIG SNIP>
    >
    >Jane, you ignorant slut....(This was before your time, Erik).Erik, you do
    >polarize an NG. Never thought I would say this. A little maturity and
    >experience may soften your stance on things, otherwise, now I know why you
    >get shunned. Man...I am speechless..Say so much and know so little. Buy a
    >newspaper for god's sake.

    I do so every day. And I read it, even the editorials written by
    liberals (when I can stomach their immature insults slung at
    conservatives or even moderates in their own party).

    > Some fellows have asked you to read a little
    >history here.

    Have done so, a lot.

    > Take their advice. They even placed links to get there
    >easier(it is those little blue letters...click on them).

    Being insulting doesn't help your argument.

    > I am afraid I will
    >not try to enlighten you. Enlighting means you are welcome to be taught. I
    >do not think you want to be. I wish you well..

    I'm willing to be enlightened. Just because someone doesn't agree
    with you doesn't mean they're stupid and unenlightened. If you want
    me to even consider a viewpoint, don't be insulting about it. I feel
    very strongly on this subject. I cannot apologize for that, because I
    don't feel it would be right for me to defend a position I hold
    strongly - and continue to hold, even after checking out some of these
    sources people pointed out to me. Even if a small number of soldiers
    - and I stress the words "small number" - committed atrocities, it was
    unfair for all soldiers to be painted with the same brush by such
    people as John Kerry and the other anti-war protestors. We are a
    better society than that.

    Bad things happen in war, and I hate that. Men who commit rampant war
    crimes should be convicted and sentenced appropriately. But we should
    not condemn our soldiers, nor hold them back, because of the actions
    of a very few. And that is what happened in Vietnam - so often
    uninformed - and is now happening in Iraq. (Specifically, the
    incident regarding footage of a soldier shooting a terrorist
    pretending to be dead. The news anchors blithely ignored to point out
    that many terrorists had been using that stunt to lure soldiers close,
    then shoot the soldiers or blow themselves up, killing the soldiers.
    The soldier who shot the terrorist had been involved in one such
    incident just days before, and saw a friend fall victim to it.)
    -Erik
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Desert Joe said

    > Ah, so you call her Rosemary, how quiant! :)

    Piquant?

    --
    Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
    Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
    "I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
    Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    On 6/23/05 7:08 PM, in article apfmb11sghi2kdd67lrmhkvuo05oo4325c@4ax.com,
    "Erik Setzer" <erks@comcast.net> wrote:

    > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:24:32 -0500, "Berto" <Albertocarro@msn.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> "Erik Setzer" <erks@comcast.net> wrote in message
    >> news:msa8b1dp3niq5ontsphagt7rfu1h48ad74@4ax.com...
    >>> <BIG SNIP>
    >>>
    >> <REAL BIG SNIP>
    >>
    >> Jane, you ignorant slut....(This was before your time, Erik).Erik, you do
    >> polarize an NG. Never thought I would say this. A little maturity and
    >> experience may soften your stance on things, otherwise, now I know why you
    >> get shunned. Man...I am speechless..Say so much and know so little. Buy a
    >> newspaper for god's sake.
    >
    > I do so every day. And I read it, even the editorials written by
    > liberals (when I can stomach their immature insults slung at
    > conservatives or even moderates in their own party).
    >
    >> Some fellows have asked you to read a little
    >> history here.
    >
    > Have done so, a lot.
    >
    >> Take their advice. They even placed links to get there
    >> easier(it is those little blue letters...click on them).
    >
    > Being insulting doesn't help your argument.
    >
    > it was
    > unfair for all soldiers to be painted with the same brush by such

    It is unfair for any large group to be painted with the same brush but it
    was (is) particularly disgusting for anti-war to morph into anti-soldiers.

    > people as John Kerry and the other anti-war protestors.

    Like Vietnam Veterans Against the War? These were people who had served in
    Vietnam. Many had been wounded. If anyone would know what was going on
    over there, I would think it would be those who served. He did not go AWOL.
    He did not frag his commander. He stated before Congress (not being sneaky
    or subversive, telling those in power exactly what he thought) that he
    believed wrong was being done. He has paid politically on at least three
    occasions for doing this. You can disagree with his opinion, but you cannot
    call him a traitor or say he committed any acts of treason and maintain
    credibility. Perhaps he did it because he believed. Perhaps he did it
    because he thought it was the rising political fad. Perhaps he did that
    instead of crawling into a drug addiction. We can't know.

    Either way, I support the right of any soldier to tell us his opinion of the
    war he fought. I also support the right of anyone else to believe or
    disbelieve what is said - as long as they don't go throwing around
    accusations of treason. Then I get this feeling that I simply must stand up
    and remind folks that in a free country, we are allowed to speak out against
    our government. We are allowed to protest. That keeps us free.

    > We are a better society than that.
    >
    We are human.


    janet
    --
    Getting off my soap box, really I am.
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer (More info?)

    "Jim M" <hnjcomics@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1d1dc55eba2e2df998a5e2@news.west.earthlink.net...
    > It was a cold day in September when Erik Setzer entered the world pub
    > known
    > as rec.games.miniatures.warhammer and said...
    >
    >> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 00:05:03 +0100, "Lt. Cmdr. Jim"
    >> <ltcmdrjim@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >>
    >> >To kill and die to protect your
    >> >country from an immediate agressor is one thing, to do the same to
    >> >further some political end you don't support is quite annother.
    >>
    >> And on that note, I give up. If people are too stupid to understand
    >> that protecting people from an invading force that they don't want is
    >> not "furthering some political end", it's not worth worrying about
    >> them. If Vietnam was to further some political end, then so was
    >> Korea, WWI, WWII, Desert Storm, Bosnia, Kosovo, Somolia, and every war
    >> in between. WWI was no threat to the US. WWII, only Japan was much
    >> of a threat - the real threat in Europe was from our "allies", the
    >> Soviets. So I guess then that people should have been just as eager
    >> to run from those wars?
    >>

    Erik, just out of interest do a google on the Zimmerman telegram and see the
    final straw after indiscriminate U Boat war why America declared in WW1,
    while you doing that dig out the American declaration of war from WW2.

    Some wars need to be fought, some are fought by choice and some are fought
    because you have no other options. Where any given war sits depends on the
    country and its outlook.

    --
    estarriol
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