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PC Vs. Mac

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February 18, 2011 3:58:48 AM

So I have been noticing this sudden up rising in apple products and the ignorance of their users and I just cant keep my mouth shut anymore. (feel free to do that same, thats why I started this thread : ) All i hear and see everywhere I go is massive amounts of marketing on behalf of Apple stating that macs are for Hip/trendy socialites and PC's are for Lame, acne ridden Anti-Social losers along with the product image that macs are vastly superior machines. All though this couldn't be any farther from the actual truth of it I still have had many conversations with the A-Typical mac user and they always go the same way. Full of statements like "they just work" or "macs dont crash" or even the infamous "macs dont get virus's" all of which are statements that have been directly adopted from the elitest womb of the apple marketing campaign and none of which can ever provide any factual basis to actually back up their claims. So all I can think to do is break it down as black and white as I possibly can and ask for all opinions ( mac users please only comment if you have something to say that actually has factual basis and I havnt heard it a million times before or isnt a direct quote from a mac commercial.thanks)

1-COST. For this segment I will compare a top end custom built PC Vs. a Mac of equal specs from the official Apple website.

Mac Pro
CPU-3.33Ghz 6 Core Intel Xeon (haha i still laugh about macs using intel CPU's, well i guess they never really made their own anyways (Power PC was made by IBM)
RAM-12GB of DDR3 ECC SDRAM
HDD- 2TB
GPU- 2X Radeon 5770

Sorry for the lack of info, the great overlord Steve Jobs doesn't really disclose alot about the hardware he uses...(go figure)

Total $6071.00

Custom Built
MOBO-EVGA Classified SR-2 270-WS-W555-A2 LGA 1366 Intel 5520 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 (mac does not offer either sata 6GB/s or USB 3.0, this board has both)
CPU-3.33Ghz 6 Core Intel Xeon
RAM-12 GB (4X3) Corsair Dominator DDR3 2000 (PC 16000) (much better performing/higher quality than the conventional 1600Mhz ddr3 used in the mac system)
GPU- 2X MSI R5770 Hawk Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CFX (better quality and HDMI, which mac refuses to support)
HDD- Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
PSU- ABS Majesty series MJ1100-M Continuous 1100W@50°C ATX12V/EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD Certified, Single 12V Rail (much better quality and higher output than mac)
AUD- ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface 124 dB SNR / Headphone( much higher performance and quality than integrated mac sound)
BLU-LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk SATA WH10LS30 LightScribe Support (another mainstream technology apple refuses to acknowledge and does not offer)
CDR-ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner
CASE-Corsair Obsidian Series 800D CC800DW Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case (just as aesthetic as the mac case, if not more)
OS-Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Full

Total $4,182.87
Price difference $1,888.13

I think this is simple enough for even the most ignorant mac user to realize that the custom build is comprised of higher quality/better performing components while offering many very use-full mainstream technologies that Apple refuses to acknowledge even exist( marketing, they want you to buy their own proprietary dead end technologies) while somehow still managing to offer a $1,888.13 savings over the under performing mac pro. The extra must be for the shiny case and social status.

2-OPERATING SYSTEM.
*I'll give it to the mac that that their OS (not even totally theirs, based off UNIX) is very good looking and simple to use but this is also part of the problem as the mac OS is designed towards the computer illiterate and is actually quite limiting and very pointlessly laid out to anybody who has half a clue as to how to actually run windows.( no right click, goofy dock that doesnt differentiate between running programs and icons, programs dont actually close when i press x, no real full screen, drag and drop doesn't actually copy files just creates shortcuts and buckets full of other stupid little quirks that annoy the hell out of me)

* It's better?? I think not, this pre conception comes from the masses of brainless mac users who hopped on OSX with a hand full off retard proof built in software and managed to make a movie, not necessarily better just easier ( in the opinion of the mac user easier = better)

*Compatibility...HA, good luck interfacing with anything that doesn't have an " i " in front of the name. This is part of apples marketing scheme aswell, yes they will eventually do what you want (most of the time) but only if you buy the i-this and i-that from the apple store (which will cost twice as much, starting to see the trend??)

*Crashing. The difference between a pc based on Windows crashing and a Mac is that on the pc the crash is in 99% of the cases caused by badly coded third party software, when the Mac just has a faulty operating system. Why else would Apple themselves run their india website on Linux RedHat?
There is another fun part about crashes on the mac, it's almost always impossible to trace the source of the crash. When your mac crashes you simply reinstall the system. Sounds like a fun thing to do in your spare time, well buy a Mac then!

*Charging for service packs. Rediculous especially when you consider what the differences are between one and the other (not much)

3-Virus's. This one is very simple, macs do get virus's just not as many as PC's because there are not as many macs as PC's. If you were a virus writer why would you write code for a machine no one has ?? If anything mac's are actually more subceptible to virus's due to the fact mac openly advertises the fact you do not need anti-virus software and actually does little to nothing as far as built in securities... they even ship with their firewall turned off!!!!

4-Upgrading and customizing. Non Existent, with a mac what you buy is what you get. Yeah you can upgrade(slightly) but the prices are so astronomical that you might as well just get a new machine.

5-Software. The amount of software titles for mac platform are very limited and generally cost alot more than their windows based counterparts. Yes macs can now run windows in boot camp which allows macs to run windows software but isn't installing your most hated badly talked about competitors software kind-of like admitting defeat ??

6- Repair. Yes applecare is great, I wont argue with that. How ever after your 1 (or 3 years if you paid the extra $400) is up you are S.O.L. $1,100 to replace a burnt out GPU...yeah not for me.

7-Gaming. Yeah it's the number 1 talked about reason although it may not be the most important to some people which is why I put it last. All the same mac's have a major game deficiency. There are next to no major labels directly for the mac platform, yes you can run windows games in boot camp. Still whats even mac about running windows games in windows on the X86/X64 hardware mac's stole from the PC world because they couldn't hack it with their own hardware. Again shiny cover, social status and astronomical price tag come to mind.

Well folks that really about all I have to say on this matter. If i missed anything please feel free to continue where I left off.

More about : mac

February 18, 2011 4:58:56 PM

C'mon 26 views and no replies. Atleast one of you mac has people has to have 1 good reason why you pay so much money for such little computer, either that or you dont even get half way through it before you realize its all true and storm off in an i-tantrum lol.
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February 19, 2011 8:18:29 PM

I have to use a Mac for my g12 media class and the only enjoyment I
have gotten out of it is maybe browsing the net and writing a google
document, because the copy of office 2011 shat itself cause it didn't
have an I-name like the rubbish version of pages on iLife did. That
class is the only time I really sit down and explore the os, and I
can't say I'm impressed. There is nothing to look at because the way
apple locks down all system configs and there is no proper command
prompt, this is comparing it to unix os as well :|
the only thing I can play with is the system preferences linux styled
menu, apple may Be able to have a dock that is always shown but I
don't loose that space for the all precious dock. And I don't like how
if sometime is on the dock you have to go look for the application in
the finder, which is useless and slow.

In my computer science class, there are two guys that use macs, and
they are so proud of their shiny macs and turtle neck Steve jobs it's
disgusting. I did a price match between the best Dell xps and their
13 and 15" Mac books and they Dell is twice as better and 1.8 grand
cheaper and all they had to say way "look how much better the Mac
looks" .... 1.8 grand for a shiny case and a bloated incapable
operating system.
One of them has a go at my 2008 asus lappy telling me it gets too hot, and when he uses his he cant put it on his lap sometimes because of the heat factor.. least i can use my 3.6ghz 5870 desktop, without worrying about having to throw my whole system out when its time to upgrade.

By the way you can save 200 bucks buying some g.skill or ocz to just make that price difference close or over $2000 ;) 

edit: grammatical errors
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February 28, 2011 7:26:18 AM

In my case, we use Macs in our office primarily because we already invested so much in them in the past years that we are kind of locked in. Of course we know we can get cheaper windows workstations.

Looking forward to see the details of the upcoming FCP 64-bit update. Depending on the details we may either switch or stick with MacPros.

We do have a few Windows machines that we use for BD/DVD authoring.

I use a windows laptop for personal use and I'm planning to build a Windows desktop for use at home in the next few months.
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February 28, 2011 3:07:30 PM

It's really personal preference. Some people have been using mac's for years. I stopped my friend from buying a 4,000$ mac workstation, and I built him a hackintosh with similliar specs for 1,200$. Apple is exspensive.
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March 7, 2011 8:18:31 AM

It's easy to go overboard by buying upgrades from applestore. Apple computers are not cheap. They can even be painfully expensive... For me it's still good overall value for money.

I switched from windows to osx some years back and I very seldom use windows or any other os these days. I run snow leopard servers and are very happy with it.

Right click? Drag and drops? Goofy dock? You obviously have no clue about the operating system. And the system is not closed to anyone who know basic Unix commands. It's just closed to those who shouldn't poke around under the hood in the first place. To most "illiterates" it's very refreshing not to have to answer questions about "can I do this" all the time. Osx is actually an excellent choice for all the Linux geeks who continue to bash an operating system they haven't even looked at.

It's not a good choice for windows users who think they know something about computers but really don't. Anyone can quote hardware specs and point the finger at the stupid "others". I don't like people who buy expensive shoes or drive expensive cars.

Cheers to you, bait mate.
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March 9, 2011 11:46:05 AM

mrdumsnut said:
It's easy to go overboard by buying upgrades from applestore. Apple computers are not cheap. They can even be painfully expensive... For me it's still good overall value for money.

I switched from windows to osx some years back and I very seldom use windows or any other os these days. I run snow leopard servers and are very happy with it.

Right click? Drag and drops? Goofy dock? You obviously have no clue about the operating system. And the system is not closed to anyone who know basic Unix commands. It's just closed to those who shouldn't poke around under the hood in the first place. To most "illiterates" it's very refreshing not to have to answer questions about "can I do this" all the time. Osx is actually an excellent choice for all the Linux geeks who continue to bash an operating system they haven't even looked at.

It's not a good choice for windows users who think they know something about computers but really don't. Anyone can quote hardware specs and point the finger at the stupid "others". I don't like people who buy expensive shoes or drive expensive cars.

Cheers to you, bait mate.



So despite the fact I have been building my own computers for 10 years am currently writing you on one of them as we speak, speced that entire build that i used for the comparison and gave more technical facts than any mac user has ever heard in the commercial (similar to the gospel to you mac folks) I am dont know what im talking about ?? Oh wait of course I dont, your a mac user so obviously you know way more than me, you wont be able to tell me why but still ... I mean you were smart enough to spend way more than you had to on a computer that does less. Yes sir you...are a moron.
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March 10, 2011 5:47:01 PM

Like building your own computer takes a rocket scientist :D  I too can boast of the fantastic feat of having built my own PCs.

You still obviously have no experience of the operating system, otherwise you wouldn't have made such remarks of the way it works.

I suspect you will turn to stone if I throw pebbles at you until dawn.
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March 11, 2011 2:17:53 AM

I would say go with the pc. This is because it is cheaper, and the parts are up gradable. There are also more products that are not "Mac friendly". Its a lot cheaper to buy the pc also. If your worried about crashing get an external hd. My only other thing that I think is confusing is that you are building a server but you want to game? Or do you want both? Either way if you go with a pc you have made the right choice.
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April 1, 2011 10:49:46 PM

Well everything you said is completely true CMI86 but I prefer the easy to use computer over the other OS's and Ive been a mac user all my life and honestly when I use a windows pc (in my uni lab) I for some reason get pissed off true story, I like how when you buy a mac you are guaranteed that you are going to love the machine you buy (not just computers look at the iPhone-iPod) Ive always liked them and paying the extra cash isnt a big issue for me when I am perfectly happy with what I get :) 
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April 2, 2011 1:11:20 PM

Personally, I don't like Macs. Although I haven't used one myself(well technically I have. There was a Mac thing that happened at the university), I find that the price and with that specs is ridiculous.

But you know, if you don't mind that and just like the good looks and its simplicity then I say why not. But of course going head on with a PC on all aspects is pretty stupid. The application incompatibility is one thing, the need to buy expensive stuff is another among other things.

Also, I think the least Apple could do is to insert every single high-end technology on their units to somehow justify the price. I mean Crossfire and not even with the highest end GPUs? Their MacBooks are also something to note on that aspect. 50% more expensive than the most advance gaming laptops which doesn't even come close to its specs. The least they could do is make the specs impress, not just the shiny aluminum case.
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April 4, 2011 4:09:38 AM

cmi86 said:
So I have been noticing this sudden up rising in apple products and the ignorance of their users and I just cant keep my mouth shut anymore. (feel free to do that same, thats why I started this thread : ) All i hear and see everywhere I go is massive amounts of marketing on behalf of Apple stating that macs are for Hip/trendy socialites and PC's are for Lame, acne ridden Anti-Social losers along with the product image that macs are vastly superior machines. All though this couldn't be any farther from the actual truth of it I still have had many conversations with the A-Typical mac user and they always go the same way. Full of statements like "they just work" or "macs dont crash" or even the infamous "macs dont get virus's" all of which are statements that have been directly adopted from the elitest womb of the apple marketing campaign and none of which can ever provide any factual basis to actually back up their claims. So all I can think to do is break it down as black and white as I possibly can and ask for all opinions ( mac users please only comment if you have something to say that actually has factual basis and I havnt heard it a million times before or isnt a direct quote from a mac commercial.thanks)

1-COST. For this segment I will compare a top end custom built PC Vs. a Mac of equal specs from the official Apple website.

Mac Pro
CPU-3.33Ghz 6 Core Intel Xeon (haha i still laugh about macs using intel CPU's, well i guess they never really made their own anyways (Power PC was made by IBM)
RAM-12GB of DDR3 ECC SDRAM
HDD- 2TB
GPU- 2X Radeon 5770

Sorry for the lack of info, the great overlord Steve Jobs doesn't really disclose alot about the hardware he uses...(go figure)

Total $6071.00

Custom Built
MOBO-EVGA Classified SR-2 270-WS-W555-A2 LGA 1366 Intel 5520 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 (mac does not offer either sata 6GB/s or USB 3.0, this board has both)
CPU-3.33Ghz 6 Core Intel Xeon
RAM-12 GB (4X3) Corsair Dominator DDR3 2000 (PC 16000) (much better performing/higher quality than the conventional 1600Mhz ddr3 used in the mac system)
GPU- 2X MSI R5770 Hawk Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CFX (better quality and HDMI, which mac refuses to support)
HDD- Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
PSU- ABS Majesty series MJ1100-M Continuous 1100W@50°C ATX12V/EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD Certified, Single 12V Rail (much better quality and higher output than mac)
AUD- ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface 124 dB SNR / Headphone( much higher performance and quality than integrated mac sound)
BLU-LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk SATA WH10LS30 LightScribe Support (another mainstream technology apple refuses to acknowledge and does not offer)
CDR-ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner
CASE-Corsair Obsidian Series 800D CC800DW Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case (just as aesthetic as the mac case, if not more)
OS-Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Full

Total $4,182.87
Price difference $1,888.13

I think this is simple enough for even the most ignorant mac user to realize that the custom build is comprised of higher quality/better performing components while offering many very use-full mainstream technologies that Apple refuses to acknowledge even exist( marketing, they want you to buy their own proprietary dead end technologies) while somehow still managing to offer a $1,888.13 savings over the under performing mac pro. The extra must be for the shiny case and social status.

2-OPERATING SYSTEM.
*I'll give it to the mac that that their OS (not even totally theirs, based off UNIX) is very good looking and simple to use but this is also part of the problem as the mac OS is designed towards the computer illiterate and is actually quite limiting and very pointlessly laid out to anybody who has half a clue as to how to actually run windows.( no right click, goofy dock that doesnt differentiate between running programs and icons, programs dont actually close when i press x, no real full screen, drag and drop doesn't actually copy files just creates shortcuts and buckets full of other stupid little quirks that annoy the hell out of me)

* It's better?? I think not, this pre conception comes from the masses of brainless mac users who hopped on OSX with a hand full off retard proof built in software and managed to make a movie, not necessarily better just easier ( in the opinion of the mac user easier = better)

*Compatibility...HA, good luck interfacing with anything that doesn't have an " i " in front of the name. This is part of apples marketing scheme aswell, yes they will eventually do what you want (most of the time) but only if you buy the i-this and i-that from the apple store (which will cost twice as much, starting to see the trend??)

*Crashing. The difference between a pc based on Windows crashing and a Mac is that on the pc the crash is in 99% of the cases caused by badly coded third party software, when the Mac just has a faulty operating system. Why else would Apple themselves run their india website on Linux RedHat?
There is another fun part about crashes on the mac, it's almost always impossible to trace the source of the crash. When your mac crashes you simply reinstall the system. Sounds like a fun thing to do in your spare time, well buy a Mac then!

*Charging for service packs. Rediculous especially when you consider what the differences are between one and the other (not much)

3-Virus's. This one is very simple, macs do get virus's just not as many as PC's because there are not as many macs as PC's. If you were a virus writer why would you write code for a machine no one has ?? If anything mac's are actually more subceptible to virus's due to the fact mac openly advertises the fact you do not need anti-virus software and actually does little to nothing as far as built in securities... they even ship with their firewall turned off!!!!

4-Upgrading and customizing. Non Existent, with a mac what you buy is what you get. Yeah you can upgrade(slightly) but the prices are so astronomical that you might as well just get a new machine.

5-Software. The amount of software titles for mac platform are very limited and generally cost alot more than their windows based counterparts. Yes macs can now run windows in boot camp which allows macs to run windows software but isn't installing your most hated badly talked about competitors software kind-of like admitting defeat ??

6- Repair. Yes applecare is great, I wont argue with that. How ever after your 1 (or 3 years if you paid the extra $400) is up you are S.O.L. $1,100 to replace a burnt out GPU...yeah not for me.

7-Gaming. Yeah it's the number 1 talked about reason although it may not be the most important to some people which is why I put it last. All the same mac's have a major game deficiency. There are next to no major labels directly for the mac platform, yes you can run windows games in boot camp. Still whats even mac about running windows games in windows on the X86/X64 hardware mac's stole from the PC world because they couldn't hack it with their own hardware. Again shiny cover, social status and astronomical price tag come to mind.

Well folks that really about all I have to say on this matter. If i missed anything please feel free to continue where I left off.


Macs are expensive no doubt about that, some people can justify it either because of professional/business commitment but others just like everything being simplified for them from purchase, usage to support. This is Apple's strength no doubt about it but fall into it and you will be locked into a walled garden where you will be at Apple's mercy and soon discover their scheme where you will be constantly reminded to upgrade or lose out on features and support.

Preference for an operating system is completely a subjective and individual matter, some people like Apples others like Oranges. Just use what you like and don't care what others have to say, they are not paying your OS.
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April 4, 2011 8:07:54 PM

For me its gaming, and now with onlive, you can game with both...

for those professionals that rig that OP posted is good and can be better with Quadro graphics instead of 2x geforce graphics, and running macintosh?

(OP you can add another processor to that rig for $1000 but still $888 less, 12 cores 24 threads vs 6 cores 12 threads for $888 more? only someone desperate would buy that or someone who doesnt want to install hackintosh)

For the price PC wins hands down, with hackintosh, I'm amazed that people still buy Macs, I have a friend that runs Hackintosh on a netbook (Core 2 Duo ULV not atom but still) and it looks no different from a macbook pro 13 that I saw at an apple store(software wise, the macbook is still a bit light). All the same software and it runs very smoothly.

I feel Apply products to be girly, to be honest

I choose this:



Instead of:

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April 6, 2011 3:32:35 AM

cmi86 said:
So I have been noticing this sudden up rising in apple products and the ignorance of their users and I just cant keep my mouth shut anymore. (feel free to do that same, thats why I started this thread : ) All i hear and see everywhere I go is massive amounts of marketing on behalf of Apple stating that macs are for Hip/trendy socialites and PC's are for Lame, acne ridden Anti-Social losers along with the product image that macs are vastly superior machines. All though this couldn't be any farther from the actual truth of it I still have had many conversations with the A-Typical mac user and they always go the same way. Full of statements like "they just work" or "macs dont crash" or even the infamous "macs dont get virus's" all of which are statements that have been directly adopted from the elitest womb of the apple marketing campaign and none of which can ever provide any factual basis to actually back up their claims. So all I can think to do is break it down as black and white as I possibly can and ask for all opinions ( mac users please only comment if you have something to say that actually has factual basis and I havnt heard it a million times before or isnt a direct quote from a mac commercial.thanks)

1-COST. For this segment I will compare a top end custom built PC Vs. a Mac of equal specs from the official Apple website.

Mac Pro
CPU-3.33Ghz 6 Core Intel Xeon (haha i still laugh about macs using intel CPU's, well i guess they never really made their own anyways (Power PC was made by IBM)
RAM-12GB of DDR3 ECC SDRAM
HDD- 2TB
GPU- 2X Radeon 5770 Anyone knows that what you build is better.That is a no brainer really.Better parts used and better labor involved not mass production like some computer manufacturers.

Sorry for the lack of info, the great overlord Steve Jobs doesn't really disclose alot about the hardware he uses...(go figure)

Total $6071.00

Custom Built
MOBO-EVGA Classified SR-2 270-WS-W555-A2 LGA 1366 Intel 5520 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 (mac does not offer either sata 6GB/s or USB 3.0, this board has both)
CPU-3.33Ghz 6 Core Intel Xeon
RAM-12 GB (4X3) Corsair Dominator DDR3 2000 (PC 16000) (much better performing/higher quality than the conventional 1600Mhz ddr3 used in the mac system)
GPU- 2X MSI R5770 Hawk Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CFX (better quality and HDMI, which mac refuses to support)
HDD- Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
PSU- ABS Majesty series MJ1100-M Continuous 1100W@50°C ATX12V/EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD Certified, Single 12V Rail (much better quality and higher output than mac)
AUD- ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface 124 dB SNR / Headphone( much higher performance and quality than integrated mac sound)
BLU-LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk SATA WH10LS30 LightScribe Support (another mainstream technology apple refuses to acknowledge and does not offer)
CDR-ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner
CASE-Corsair Obsidian Series 800D CC800DW Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case (just as aesthetic as the mac case, if not more)
OS-Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Full

Total $4,182.87
Price difference $1,888.13

I think this is simple enough for even the most ignorant mac user to realize that the custom build is comprised of higher quality/better performing components while offering many very use-full mainstream technologies that Apple refuses to acknowledge even exist( marketing, they want you to buy their own proprietary dead end technologies) while somehow still managing to offer a $1,888.13 savings over the under performing mac pro. The extra must be for the shiny case and social status.

2-OPERATING SYSTEM.
*I'll give it to the mac that that their OS (not even totally theirs, based off UNIX) is very good looking and simple to use but this is also part of the problem as the mac OS is designed towards the computer illiterate and is actually quite limiting and very pointlessly laid out to anybody who has half a clue as to how to actually run windows.( no right click, goofy dock that doesnt differentiate between running programs and icons, programs dont actually close when i press x, no real full screen, drag and drop doesn't actually copy files just creates shortcuts and buckets full of other stupid little quirks that annoy the hell out of me)

* It's better?? I think not, this pre conception comes from the masses of brainless mac users who hopped on OSX with a hand full off retard proof built in software and managed to make a movie, not necessarily better just easier ( in the opinion of the mac user easier = better)

*Compatibility...HA, good luck interfacing with anything that doesn't have an " i " in front of the name. This is part of apples marketing scheme aswell, yes they will eventually do what you want (most of the time) but only if you buy the i-this and i-that from the apple store (which will cost twice as much, starting to see the trend??)

*Crashing. The difference between a pc based on Windows crashing and a Mac is that on the pc the crash is in 99% of the cases caused by badly coded third party software, when the Mac just has a faulty operating system. Why else would Apple themselves run their india website on Linux RedHat?
There is another fun part about crashes on the mac, it's almost always impossible to trace the source of the crash. When your mac crashes you simply reinstall the system. Sounds like a fun thing to do in your spare time, well buy a Mac then!

*Charging for service packs. Rediculous especially when you consider what the differences are between one and the other (not much)

3-Virus's. This one is very simple, macs do get virus's just not as many as PC's because there are not as many macs as PC's. If you were a virus writer why would you write code for a machine no one has ?? If anything mac's are actually more subceptible to virus's due to the fact mac openly advertises the fact you do not need anti-virus software and actually does little to nothing as far as built in securities... they even ship with their firewall turned off!!!!

4-Upgrading and customizing. Non Existent, with a mac what you buy is what you get. Yeah you can upgrade(slightly) but the prices are so astronomical that you might as well just get a new machine.

5-Software. The amount of software titles for mac platform are very limited and generally cost alot more than their windows based counterparts. Yes macs can now run windows in boot camp which allows macs to run windows software but isn't installing your most hated badly talked about competitors software kind-of like admitting defeat ??

6- Repair. Yes applecare is great, I wont argue with that. How ever after your 1 (or 3 years if you paid the extra $400) is up you are S.O.L. $1,100 to replace a burnt out GPU...yeah not for me.

7-Gaming. Yeah it's the number 1 talked about reason although it may not be the most important to some people which is why I put it last. All the same mac's have a major game deficiency. There are next to no major labels directly for the mac platform, yes you can run windows games in boot camp. Still whats even mac about running windows games in windows on the X86/X64 hardware mac's stole from the PC world because they couldn't hack it with their own hardware. Again shiny cover, social status and astronomical price tag come to mind.

Well folks that really about all I have to say on this matter. If i missed anything please feel free to continue where I left off.

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April 6, 2011 3:37:13 AM

razor_gt said:
For me its gaming, and now with onlive, you can game with both...

for those professionals that rig that OP posted is good and can be better with Quadro graphics instead of 2x geforce graphics, and running macintosh?

(OP you can add another processor to that rig for $1000 but still $888 less, 12 cores 24 threads vs 6 cores 12 threads for $888 more? only someone desperate would buy that or someone who doesnt want to install hackintosh)

For the price PC wins hands down, with hackintosh, I'm amazed that people still buy Macs, I have a friend that runs Hackintosh on a netbook (Core 2 Duo ULV not atom but still) and it looks no different from a macbook pro 13 that I saw at an apple store(software wise, the macbook is still a bit light). All the same software and it runs very smoothly.

I feel Apply products to be girly, to be honest

I choose this:

http://www.pcforce.co.nz/images/HAF942.jpg

Instead of:

http://www.2s2d.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/macpro_hi.jpg
You forgot one aspect retail value.Apple even used sells much more than your home made pc which you hardly can sell for what money you put into it. Besides this PC shown is not girly at all.maybe you need glasses!
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April 6, 2011 3:55:43 AM

musical marv said:
You forgot one aspect retail value.Apple even used sells much more than your home made pc which you hardly can sell for what money you put into it. Besides this PC shown is not girly at all.maybe you need glasses!

Compared to the HAF? it is girly...
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April 11, 2011 1:16:32 AM

I completely agree with CMI86. Apple users just cannot keep their mouths shut about how cool their Macs are. First, I really dislike the common tag on this topic "PC vs. Mac". While I understand it is a widely accepted conventional name for this particular type of comparison, we all must remember: "PC" stands for "personal computer". Macs are also personal computers - nothing more and nothing less, NO MATTER how much Steve Jobs and his crew are trying to convince us otherwise. They're built on the same principle and using the same parts as all other computers: there is a motherboard, a CPU, a graphics card, etc. So I'm gonna stick to "Apple/Mac vs. Windows/other brands", if at all.
Second, I have to deal with exactly the same typical Mac-user symptoms like the ones you've described. "They just work", "There're no viruses on Mac" or even "Macs are much more powerful than any other computer"! Dealing with such a devoted Apple-maniac is a pain, because 90% of them don't even have any idea about computer hardware - for them, there's no difference between a Core i7 and Core 2 Duo. One of the Apple fans in my college even went as far as to argue that Apple is better because of their warranty service! Apple is trying to brainwash us all and forget about the existing hardware rules. On their website, they often refer to the processor as a "chip", as if it was something unimportant! And look how much time it took them to catch up with the hardware development: while most of the PC users were working with or planning to buy a Core iX series processor, Macs still came out with Core 2 Duo's. It really looks to me as if all they are trying to do is to make the users forget about the difference that hardware makes and to buy what looks better.
For example, the MacBook Pro 17'' is priced around $2000 in a decent configuration (Core i5, NVidia GT330M). For $1500, my friend bought Asus G73Jh - an amazing machine that runs any new game on max graphics like a charm. Everybody in his college kept trying to convince him to get a Mac, but he refused straight out and bought G73. I doubt that MacBook Pro could even dream of running Crysis 2 or Metro 2033 on full graphics even if it had Windows installed.
I, myself, had to go with a desktop instead of a laptop because gaming laptops cost triple their price in the US in India. For $1600 (would be about $370 less in the US, thanks to Indian taxes) I got the following build:
CPU: Intel Core i7-2600 (wanted 2600K, but hard find it here, plus I don't plan on OC)
Mobo: Asus P8P67 Pro
GPU: MSI NGTX-560Ti 1GB OC
RAM: Corsair 8GB (2x4GB)
PSU: Corsair CMPSU-TX750W
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 500GB
Display: LG E2360V 23'' LED Full HD
Not only that build totally overkills my everyday needs (Photoshop, video converting, gaming, entertainment), but it also allows me to run multi-boot (XP SP3, Win7 Ultimate, Ubuntu 10.10) and is future-proof (SLI: another GTX560 Ti in one year, I think, and RAM can be upgraded to 32GB if needed, and hell knows what Intel will make for LGA 1155 in the future!). Now, I wonder about the configuration Apple would have to offer for the same price! =)
I obviously don't consider software as part of my computer budget - when buying a computer, I pay for HARDWARE only. I own all my software for a long time - OS's, Photoshop and other stuff - and when the time comes to upgrade, I simply reinstall it on the new machine.
Concerning the viruses: it seems like they've became a major scarecrow for every user who doesn't know anything about IT. I barely talked my mother out of buying a MacBook Air, when all she needed was a 10-inch netbook for music and Internet. And after she did buy a netbook, she wanted to get some antivirus software...
Get it in your head, people, once and for all: you CANNOT "get" viruses on your computer unless YOU allow them to "get" there. All I had to do is to switch off autorun for all the external devices (USB drives, CD/DVD's, etc.) in Windows and switch on the hidden files and folders displaying, and all the scary viruses now can be instantly seen and deleted MANUALLY. That's right - I installed some commercial virus scanners on my system recently, and they couldn't find ANY virus/trojan/malware on my system. I have my firewall turned off, I surf the net all the time, and yet nothing! And it isn't just pure luck, of course, I just know what I'm doing.
And in case I ever get a virus, I'll either kill it myself (done this 4 times already, and learnt A LOT about registry and script files from it) or, if it's really bad, just reinstall my OS within an hour with all the software that I need. BTW, don't ever store your data on the same drive as the OS, and try to use external drives for backup of all the stuff you want to keep :-)
Good job noticing: the Mac OS actually uses UNIX architecture, and a lot of stuff from the Ubuntu terminal works there. I had some fun with clueless Mac users by convincing them to use "sudo halt" to "speed up the performance" (switches off the comp insteaf) or "chmod 007" to "simplify the file access" (made them change the permissions so that they cannot access their own files) - this, by the way, proves once again how little they actually know about their machine, both hardware and software. So why does Apple show off about their OS so much if they just took what already existed and "made it better" (Not true, IMAO, I prefer Ubuntu 10.10 over any Mac OS version, and both are UNIX-based)???
Now, to the gaming. Yes, a few major titles like SPORE and some Need for Speed's came out for Apple, but that's a joke compared to hundreds of great games that exist for Windows. The main excuse that Apple-maniacs give is that "Macs aren't made for gamers!" IMAO, the computer that can do hardcore gaming can do pretty much everything. WHAT is it that Apple is made for?! Can somebody please tell me that, because the only thing that Apple computers can do that my 1.8 GHz Celeron laptop cannot is set up Wi-Fi ad hoc networks, but that's because I never read the manual on how to do it properly :D 
About the supposed "just works": I've seen SO MANY Apple users having the same problems as the Windows users: some device doesn't work, a program keeps crashing, something overheats/breaks, the OS doesn't boot... And while in Windows 99% of the problems are solved by simply tweaking a few settings, in Mac OS that doesn't seem to be the case.
And it's completely true that Apple prefers to ignore certain essential features on their computers: HDMI, USB 3.0 (at least they invented Thunderbolt instead of that, though I'm still convinced Intel has done 90% of the work there), proper GPU's on their laptops (nVidia GT330M w/ 512MB is ridiculous, for the same price proper laptops have something like GTX460M or Mobility HD 5870)...
Yes, Apple was first to invent GUI, but soon everyone had it. Yes, Apple made the first successful (only because of huge marketing, though) touch smartphone, but now there is a whole bunch of models that beat the hell out of the iPhone in every area for the same or even less price. Yes, Apple was the first to introduce laptops with long battery lifes, but now every netbook beats them, and besides, who gives a crap about battery life? =)) So, is it really worth buying something that costs 1.5 times the same performance from any other respectable brand, has an "i" tag in front of its name and will make you look "cool" in the eyes of the same clueless Mac users? My answer is no. Here's a small list of hardware that I suggest buying instead of their Apple "competitors":
Instead of MacBook Pro: Dell Alienware or Asus G73Jh/Jw/SW. Ranging from $1500 to $5000, ANY configuration of these laptops is more powerful than the configuration Apple will offer you for the same price.
Instead of desktop Mac: CUSTOM BUILD! That saves you a lot of money, you get EXACTLY what you want, you often end having lots of fun building your system AND it develops logical thinking =) Plus the upgrade possibilities are awesome.

Instead of iPod: ANY mp3 player with large HDD, good sound and a few cool features. My iRiver 6GB still beats the hell out of any iPod in all areas except HDD: it has an inbuild remote control for TV/radio, long battery life, plays all kinds of formats, has radio, great sound quality, voice recorder (not present on iPod, as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong!) and works flawlessly for already 6 years (battery still good!), I'm not changing it till it breaks. AND I don't need iTunes to copy the music from my PC, yay! And Emperor crush me if I'm ever gonna be stupid enough watching movies on my mp3-player while travelling - I have my netbook for that!
Instead of MacBook Air (aka Apple netbook): Asus Automobili VX6. $600-800, and you get: Intel Atom Dual-core (1.8GHz), nVidia ION 2 w/ Optimus, 12'' screen, AWESOME design (after seeing that netbook, I ROFLMAO'd at one of my friends who said that Macbook Air has the best design ever among netbooks), 2-4GB DDR3 (not DDR2, like the rest of the netbooks on the market!) RAM, HDMI, Wi-Fi 802.11 g/n, 320GB HDD, etc... According to my research, this IS the best netbook on the market and will give some low-end full-size laptops a good run for their money (my FS Amilo Li 1818, for example). Netbook is supposed to be a rather cheap device equipped with all kinds of connectivity interfaces possible, and the Air costs at least $1200 and has NOTHING because Apple wanted it to be as thin as possible. Even the VGA output has to be connected through the adapter.
Instead of iPhone 4: Nokia N8 or Samsung Galaxy S, depends whether you prefer Symbian or Android. Both devices will offer you much better things to do with the phone that iPhone 4 for the same or even smaller price - awesome camera in case of N8 and flexibility of Android in case of SGS, though the SGS does pack a bit more of power (1GHz processor against 680 MHz in N8 and 512MB RAM against 256MB in N8). For Apple-maniacs who mumble "wait till iPhone 5 comes out!" - you're already beaten, check out the specs for Samsung Galaxy S II that will come out (can't wait!) in April/May.
Instead of iPad 2: get straight and forget tablets... get a netbook! If you love the tablets so much, go for the Asus Eee Pad Transformer: that one is way more powerful and has a detachable keyboard, which is also equipped with extra batteries and ports.
While I'm not trying to convince you to buy particular products (I'm not even paid for that!), my general message is: instead of blindly going for Apple gadgets because "they're cool" and "just work", look for something similar from the other brands that's more powerful and at the same time cheaper - in 100% of the cases such a gadget exists, and it usually has a good OS installed on it :) 
My friend once compared Apple and its users to a cult. "They are ready to defend their useless cause until death, it seems", he said. I couldn't agree more - while Apple users don't have anything to justify their use of overpriced and underpowered hardware, they sure do have a lot of arrogance and smug. And Apple makes good money on it, for sure. I think the only way to shut them down now is to buy the whole corporation and dissolve it =))
Or is it? I think that if everyone would be a bit more conscious about the gadgets they use and how they compare to their similarly-priced competitors and look BEYOND advertisement and design - Apple, Inc. would cease to exist a long time ago.
(Though I personally find their design ugly... and this white-backlit apple on MacBook lids really makes me want to smash the MacBook to pieces!)
To sum it up, I regret the year 1997 for two reasons: 1) Apple was almost bankrupt; 2) A recent research showed that if one would have bought Apple stock for $3000 at that time, he could have sold it for about $300000 - 100 times as much - today. Maybe I could've afforded an even better PC now, had I done that. =)))
______________________________________________
Basically, I just expanded what CMI86 wrote already and added a few more details. Sorry for a long post, but I hope you've learned something today :)  Respect to all hardware-conscious computer users out there. Respect to all the gamers, we make the high-end PC industry thrive. Respect to all the PC components manufacturers for allowing us to choose from so much hardware. And respect to all the Apple-maniacs - the more you defend Apple, the more lulz I get :D 
Smash Apple-maniacs everywhere you go! =)
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April 11, 2011 1:23:51 AM

amk-aka-Phantom said:
I completely agree with CMI86. Apple users just cannot keep their mouths shut about

how cool their Macs are.

Smash Apple-maniacs everywhere you go! =)



Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to type out the whole thing?
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April 11, 2011 1:26:36 AM

I have the text body saved on my HDD for 1.5 years already =) Just 5 minutes of editing =)
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April 11, 2011 1:34:35 AM

amk-aka-Phantom said:
I have the text body saved on my HDD for 1.5 years already =) Just 5 minutes of editing =)

so originally how long did it take?
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April 11, 2011 1:51:39 AM

Maybe 30 minutes? I don't regret it - I expressed pretty much all my thoughts about Apple and can post/mail it on any Apple vs. PC thread =)
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April 11, 2011 2:00:05 AM

Anyway, looking at your above posts, you should be totally happy with mine, 'cause you also don't seem to like Apple that much =) Oh, and one more thing that I forgot because it only started recently - I hate how some brands try to copy Apple design or concepts, thinking that it'll enable them to compete. (most of the modern touch screen phones look like iPhone, GNOME 3.0 and Windows 8 borrowing Applications Strip from Mac OS) I wish that, when Apple came out with the iPad, all other brands would just not care at all... but no, they just had to get caught in the game and start making the same useless stuff! Of course, they have to keep their business running, but... how about someone actually outsmarts Apple so THEY have to copy and catch up, for once?! Every time it's other way around: Apple makes something, and all other brands have to take the gadget and actually make it usable (add USB, for example - iPad 1 didn't have it), then sell it. And yet everyone prefers Apple junk! A complete mystery for me and any other person who knows about computer hardware =)
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April 18, 2011 6:14:17 PM

For all the people that are about to throw out their pc and get a mac, they are very simple ways you can clean your computer and make it run like brand new. Install CCleaner and use the cleaner part which cleans the unused junk on your hard drive that build up over time. Next use the registry cleaner part to fix registry errors.

A lot of people think their computer has a virus when it just simply needs a registry cleaning. Depending on how often you install and uninstall programs, you may have quite a few registry errors. Every time you delete stuff it quite often leaves parts of it on your pc. By using the registry cleaner it will delete the junk allowing your computer to run faster.

Another thing you can do is use the maintenance programs already on your pc. Disk Defragmenter and Disk Cleanup. Disk Defragmenter streamlines your hard drive reading speed by moving similar data together so than it can be accessed quicker when you open files or programs. Disk Cleanup is the similar program to the first cleaner on ccleaner, but differs from the registry ccleaner.

PCs are superior to Macs in performance and cost much less. They do require that you use your brain every now and then though, meaning do these simple things i've listed above. Similar to brushing your teeth or taking baths. :) 
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April 27, 2011 5:03:26 AM

It is an impressive way of differentiating the two, you made it quite clear and both has its own merits and demerits.
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April 27, 2011 5:35:08 AM

I said this before on another post:
I have a mac, but it collected dust till I put windows boot camp on it....
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May 22, 2011 8:51:43 PM

jackemw said:
I have to use a Mac for my g12 media class and the only enjoyment I
have gotten out of it is maybe browsing the net and writing a google
document, because the copy of office 2011 shat itself cause it didn't
have an I-name like the rubbish version of pages on iLife did. That
class is the only time I really sit down and explore the os, and I
can't say I'm impressed. There is nothing to look at because the way
apple locks down all system configs and there is no proper command
prompt, this is comparing it to unix os as well :|
the only thing I can play with is the system preferences linux styled
menu, apple may Be able to have a dock that is always shown but I
don't loose that space for the all precious dock. And I don't like how
if sometime is on the dock you have to go look for the application in
the finder, which is useless and slow.

In my computer science class, there are two guys that use macs, and
they are so proud of their shiny macs and turtle neck Steve jobs it's
disgusting. I did a price match between the best Dell xps and their
13 and 15" Mac books and they Dell is twice as better and 1.8 grand
cheaper and all they had to say way "look how much better the Mac
looks" .... 1.8 grand for a shiny case and a bloated incapable
operating system.
One of them has a go at my 2008 asus lappy telling me it gets too hot, and when he uses his he cant put it on his lap sometimes because of the heat factor.. least i can use my 3.6ghz 5870 desktop, without worrying about having to throw my whole system out when its time to upgrade.

By the way you can save 200 bucks buying some g.skill or ocz to just make that price difference close or over $2000 ;) 

edit: grammatical errors


There is one guy in my class who is a die-hard Apple fan. and I keep on explaining to him that for dollar for dollar Pc's have better hardware. All he says is "Get nubbed" and "PC's suck and macs are one thousand times faster than PC's dollar for dollar!!" makes me want to beat the living daylights out of him. I showed him that for $1000 you can get a Macbook with only a Intel 2 Core Duo at 2.4 GHz, 2GB of RAM, and a horrible graphics card. For $1000 you can get a HP Pavilion with an i7 quad core 2600k 3.4 GHz processor, 8GB of RAM, and a 2GB Radeon HD 6850 graphics card. For that he said "Go suck Bill Gates balls Macs are faster dollar for dollar" his ignorance is so annoying!!!!!
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June 12, 2011 11:57:07 PM

Like Linux Mac OS X sucks as well. Compared to Windows they are cumbersome operating systems and not good for the basic computing experience. Linux/Unix is okay for certain applications in certain business but they simply will never be a viable system for the masses. Windows has the masses and for good reason. I always said that America Online is (was) for dummies now I can say the same thing for Macs. Macs for Dummies. Simply.
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June 25, 2011 5:02:18 AM

first of all, Im a user of all 3 OS, each one has its purpose. The winner to your question will always be time based. Forget statistics and directly compare the products by time frame. If you look at history you will find that:

From 1998 to 2007, Apple products were better and less expensive than "PC". After the release of iphone/ipad, Apple lost a little bit of focus on MAC and has been a downhill since, in terms of what MAC users were used to. Look at the MacPro, it hasn't been updated in 2 years, while PC parts do, so obviously PC is cheaper now as a result of Apple's lack of care. Also in a previows era, Macs were offered in a variety of desing and colors, which themselves were always in change. For the last 4 years, Apple kept the same desing for everything, which I think its lame.

However if you looked at the products in 2000 for example, MACs would be way cheaper than PCs, and they were running a superior processor than Intels was offering at that time. Do you remember 10 years ago comparing the models to choose the right product for you? No, right? You bought a Windows machine.

And as a user of both Windows and Mac OS and Linux, I can honestly say that from 2003 to 2007, Mac OS ruled over Windows. Now Windows have finally sort of caught up with Mac OS, but trust me, in 2003, Mac users had a OS similar to what Windows 7 is now. XP is a joke to any Mac user. I still run XP tough, I ilke playing The Sims occasionally.

Even still, MAC OS is superior to Windows. Go to an Apple store and ask about "Dashboard" "Expose" and "Magic Mouse" then you will start to get some understanding of the matter.

Regarding virus, MACs are safe today, that will change tomorrow. Never the less, MACs have been safe for the last 30 years. Can Windows users say the same?

Crashes…man you were high when you wrote this, Windows crashes are 99%….windows problems….windows popularized backup in a way.

Upgrading….hats of to PC custom builders. Tough I need to make a point that MACs don't need to be upgraded as fast as PCs do, cause less gaming is involved.

Software: EVERYTHING that Windows has, Mac has as well and for free. You just need to google it. The difference is that while Windows have 10 software that do the same thing, MACs have only 1 version.

Repair: MACs hardly ever need repair, and btw, there is a little thing called warranty.

The only thing Windows is superior at is gaming. So if you are a gamer like me, you NEED Windows. That doesn't mean you want it as your OS for everything else.
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June 25, 2011 5:09:23 AM

Oh, I want to add that even tough Apple is dumb in not offering a variety of case desings for the MAC Pro, the current design can be considered "better" thans 99% of current PC cases. Of couse, artistics desgins and interpretations of beauty are subject of each persons eyes, tastes and point of view. However you do can say that when comparing the above pictures of a MAC Pro and a PC case:

boys will prefer the PC case. Girls will prefer the Mac case. Men will prefer the Mac case. Women will prefer the Mac case. Seriously, the pc case is a TOY.
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June 26, 2011 7:32:12 PM

cmi86 said:
So I have been noticing this sudden up rising in apple products and the ignorance of their users and I just cant keep my mouth shut anymore. (feel free to do that same, thats why I started this thread : ) All i hear and see everywhere I go is massive amounts of marketing on behalf of Apple stating that macs are for Hip/trendy socialites and PC's are for Lame, acne ridden Anti-Social losers along with the product image that macs are vastly superior machines. All though this couldn't be any farther from the actual truth of it I still have had many conversations with the A-Typical mac user and they always go the same way. Full of statements like "they just work" or "macs dont crash" or even the infamous "macs dont get virus's" all of which are statements that have been directly adopted from the elitest womb of the apple marketing campaign and none of which can ever provide any factual basis to actually back up their claims. So all I can think to do is break it down as black and white as I possibly can and ask for all opinions ( mac users please only comment if you have something to say that actually has factual basis and I havnt heard it a million times before or isnt a direct quote from a mac commercial.thanks)

1-COST. For this segment I will compare a top end custom built PC Vs. a Mac of equal specs from the official Apple website.

Mac Pro
CPU-3.33Ghz 6 Core Intel Xeon (haha i still laugh about macs using intel CPU's, well i guess they never really made their own anyways (Power PC was made by IBM)
RAM-12GB of DDR3 ECC SDRAM
HDD- 2TB
GPU- 2X Radeon 5770

Sorry for the lack of info, the great overlord Steve Jobs doesn't really disclose alot about the hardware he uses...(go figure)

Total $6071.00

Custom Built
MOBO-EVGA Classified SR-2 270-WS-W555-A2 LGA 1366 Intel 5520 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 (mac does not offer either sata 6GB/s or USB 3.0, this board has both)
CPU-3.33Ghz 6 Core Intel Xeon
RAM-12 GB (4X3) Corsair Dominator DDR3 2000 (PC 16000) (much better performing/higher quality than the conventional 1600Mhz ddr3 used in the mac system)
GPU- 2X MSI R5770 Hawk Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CFX (better quality and HDMI, which mac refuses to support)
HDD- Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
PSU- ABS Majesty series MJ1100-M Continuous 1100W@50°C ATX12V/EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD Certified, Single 12V Rail (much better quality and higher output than mac)
AUD- ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface 124 dB SNR / Headphone( much higher performance and quality than integrated mac sound)
BLU-LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk SATA WH10LS30 LightScribe Support (another mainstream technology apple refuses to acknowledge and does not offer)
CDR-ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner
CASE-Corsair Obsidian Series 800D CC800DW Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case (just as aesthetic as the mac case, if not more)
OS-Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Full

Total $4,182.87
Price difference $1,888.13

I think this is simple enough for even the most ignorant mac user to realize that the custom build is comprised of higher quality/better performing components while offering many very use-full mainstream technologies that Apple refuses to acknowledge even exist( marketing, they want you to buy their own proprietary dead end technologies) while somehow still managing to offer a $1,888.13 savings over the under performing mac pro. The extra must be for the shiny case and social status.

2-OPERATING SYSTEM.
*I'll give it to the mac that that their OS (not even totally theirs, based off UNIX) is very good looking and simple to use but this is also part of the problem as the mac OS is designed towards the computer illiterate and is actually quite limiting and very pointlessly laid out to anybody who has half a clue as to how to actually run windows.( no right click, goofy dock that doesnt differentiate between running programs and icons, programs dont actually close when i press x, no real full screen, drag and drop doesn't actually copy files just creates shortcuts and buckets full of other stupid little quirks that annoy the hell out of me)

* It's better?? I think not, this pre conception comes from the masses of brainless mac users who hopped on OSX with a hand full off retard proof built in software and managed to make a movie, not necessarily better just easier ( in the opinion of the mac user easier = better)

*Compatibility...HA, good luck interfacing with anything that doesn't have an " i " in front of the name. This is part of apples marketing scheme aswell, yes they will eventually do what you want (most of the time) but only if you buy the i-this and i-that from the apple store (which will cost twice as much, starting to see the trend??)

*Crashing. The difference between a pc based on Windows crashing and a Mac is that on the pc the crash is in 99% of the cases caused by badly coded third party software, when the Mac just has a faulty operating system. Why else would Apple themselves run their india website on Linux RedHat?
There is another fun part about crashes on the mac, it's almost always impossible to trace the source of the crash. When your mac crashes you simply reinstall the system. Sounds like a fun thing to do in your spare time, well buy a Mac then!

*Charging for service packs. Rediculous especially when you consider what the differences are between one and the other (not much)

3-Virus's. This one is very simple, macs do get virus's just not as many as PC's because there are not as many macs as PC's. If you were a virus writer why would you write code for a machine no one has ?? If anything mac's are actually more subceptible to virus's due to the fact mac openly advertises the fact you do not need anti-virus software and actually does little to nothing as far as built in securities... they even ship with their firewall turned off!!!!

4-Upgrading and customizing. Non Existent, with a mac what you buy is what you get. Yeah you can upgrade(slightly) but the prices are so astronomical that you might as well just get a new machine.

5-Software. The amount of software titles for mac platform are very limited and generally cost alot more than their windows based counterparts. Yes macs can now run windows in boot camp which allows macs to run windows software but isn't installing your most hated badly talked about competitors software kind-of like admitting defeat ??

6- Repair. Yes applecare is great, I wont argue with that. How ever after your 1 (or 3 years if you paid the extra $400) is up you are S.O.L. $1,100 to replace a burnt out GPU...yeah not for me.

7-Gaming. Yeah it's the number 1 talked about reason although it may not be the most important to some people which is why I put it last. All the same mac's have a major game deficiency. There are next to no major labels directly for the mac platform, yes you can run windows games in boot camp. Still whats even mac about running windows games in windows on the X86/X64 hardware mac's stole from the PC world because they couldn't hack it with their own hardware. Again shiny cover, social status and astronomical price tag come to mind.

Well folks that really about all I have to say on this matter. If i missed anything please feel free to continue where I left off.














look
i found this website http://electronicbolt.com/ they have the cheapest stuff on the web. they seem legit i think i m gonna buy my macbooc from them. check them out, you ll save some $
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July 2, 2011 3:35:55 PM

OP, Macs are personal computers too. Learn to use the operating system to differentiate between systems. There are Linux-PCs too and they're not the same as Windows-PCs.

cmi86 said:
the mac OS is designed towards the computer illiterate and is actually quite limiting

What is limited on MacOS, as opposed to "the Windows"? Shouldn't Apple have included a terminal/shell to destroy any of your weak arguments?
3-Virus's. said:
3-Virus's.

PC's said:
PC's

Go back to school.
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Anonymous
July 8, 2011 2:34:46 AM

@leandrodafontoura - Can't give you any real arguments supported by facts but dashboard, expose, and those stuff aren't that amazing. I've been using macs for a long time but i don't use them. interesting and new at first but later, its old and useless. After a while, all the different features apple offers becomes uninteresting and unimportant. Time machine? Its repetitiveness is theoretically secure but in reality, useless. iLife? lolz, imoviehd was good long ago but they oversimplified and precise editing is undoable. Magic mouse? lolz what was the point. Is it... productive? no.... ergonomic? no.... interesting? at first but lost interest very quickly. I needed to use it as a mouse. Also, there are many many annoying problems that appear in macbooks that many common users won't notice for a while or even not at all. Mac pros? who actually would want a mac pro? overpriced unproductivness. imacs? Not even a true desktop. Macbooks? Aluminum toasters with marketing.

Since I know people can endlessly argue about their experiences with certain products I will try a different approach...

The main reason Apple is successful is not because of its design, simplicity, security, software, service, warranty, and etc. its because of their marketing. Apple actually spends very little compared to many other computer companies in research and design. Their marketing is the main reason why they're successful. They make products that they know people would want. Touchscreens? apple made it. Tablets? apple made it. Apple made products they knew people would buy. But this doesn't make apple superior to the user. You may also argue that other companies copy apple. So? Its all about their marketing and business. If you were a company, you would definately try to build a similar product to get sales. They don't care apple started it. they're not saying apple is superior. Its all about business. You say apple is really good? Superior? Better? False, you're part of the market.
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Anonymous
July 8, 2011 2:57:40 AM

-first of all, Im a user of all 3 OS, each one has its purpose. The winner to your question will always be time based. Forget statistics and directly compare the products by time frame. If you look at history you will find that...
False. False. False. False. Each has its purpose :ouch:  ? No. No. From your experience yes. but not for others. time based? If you look at history you will find that Apple didn't do so good until they put themselves in lots of marketing. Macs didn't hit until 2006. iPods were popular and just a good mp3 player until apple's marketing gave them the iPod touch which became a hit. Not much apple in history.

-Even still, MAC OS is superior to Windows. Go to an Apple store and ask about "Dashboard" "Expose" and "Magic Mouse" then you will start to get some understanding of the matter.
Interesting but not usefull.

-Regarding virus, MACs are safe today, that will change tomorrow. Never the less, MACs have been safe for the last 30 years. Can Windows users say the same?
How big was the market for Macs before the last 7 years? :hello: 

-Crashes…man you were high when you wrote this, Windows crashes are 99%….windows problems….windows popularized backup in a way.
Large room in windows for user error or third party error. A path windows has taken from the start. But not because of actually windows. Tell me, what exactly is a "windows crash."

-Upgrading….hats of to PC custom builders. Tough I need to make a point that MACs don't need to be upgraded as fast as PCs do, cause less gaming is involved.
True but not totally true. People do upgrade pcs more frequently but people do cause they can and will see large improvements. Both Pcs and macs are perfectly useable for couple years without upgrades.

-Software: EVERYTHING that Windows has, Mac has as well and for free. You just need to google it. The difference is that while Windows have 10 software that do the same thing, MACs have only 1 version.
Since this is not an argument for Osx but rather a counter for an argument i don't support I'll pass.

-Repair: MACs hardly ever need repair, and btw, there is a little thing called warranty.
Macs don't need repair cause there is less space for user and third party error. Warranty apple does well because they produce iphones, macbooks, and others very cheaply. Also, a unibody, and slot loading drives are less easy to tamper with.

-The only thing Windows is superior at is gaming. So if you are a gamer like me, you NEED Windows. That doesn't mean you want it as your OS for everything else.
Tell me what Osx is superior at.
video editing? no. gaming? no. other media? no.

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July 11, 2011 8:51:10 AM

cmi86 said:
So despite the fact I have been building my own computers for 10 years am currently writing you on one of them as we speak, speced that entire build that i used for the comparison and gave more technical facts than any mac user has ever heard in the commercial (similar to the gospel to you mac folks) I am dont know what im talking about ?? Oh wait of course I dont, your a mac user so obviously you know way more than me, you wont be able to tell me why but still ... I mean you were smart enough to spend way more than you had to on a computer that does less. Yes sir you...are a moron.


you start this thread, then rage when u get disagreed. dude ur asking to be flamed...
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July 11, 2011 9:01:29 AM

Mac users consist of:
Home Office users such as authors & lawyers
Start ups such as Twitter & Monster Designs
Accountants such as Nelson Accounting Professionals
Architects such as KAA Design Group
Creatives such as LinkedIn, T-Pain, Hallmark, and Francis Ford Coppola
Health industries such as hospitals
IT professionals such as MailWise
Law firms
Real Estate agents
Retail stores such as Paul Frank
Scientists such as The University of Manchester and The American Museum of Natural History

Windows users consist of:
Home office users
IT Professionals
Developers
Business owners
Schools
Hospitals
Banks

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July 11, 2011 9:12:57 AM

khevs143 said:
Mac users consist of:
Home Office users such as authors & lawyers
Start ups such as Twitter & Monster Designs
Accountants such as Nelson Accounting Professionals
Architects such as KAA Design Group
Creatives such as LinkedIn, T-Pain, Hallmark, and Francis Ford Coppola
Health industries such as hospitals
IT professionals such as MailWise
Law firms
Real Estate agents
Retail stores such as Paul Frank
Scientists such as The University of Manchester and The American Museum of Natural History

Windows users consist of:
Home office users
IT Professionals
Developers
Business owners
Schools
Hospitals
Banks


you cant generalise like that.
their decision will be reflected the needs of the company:
how much money can they spend
what they need it on
what will be easiest
what has software for our use
what will suit of look better
etc
etc
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July 11, 2011 6:22:28 PM

Macs and PCs aren’t at all that different. The only notable difference is the Operating System. The hardware is about the same.
Many people comment on Mac as if they are a perfect representation of computers, basically, they claim that they have no flaws. Many T.V. shows use Mac as props; the Apple logo has basically become iconic.
But in the tech world, there are major flaws, and I don’t understand why Macs are even a debatable topic. The iPad was just another tablet PC. Nothing new… iPods are just like mp4 players, nothing new as well… But people still choose Mac for some reason… it may be because of the well known fact that they’re expensive, and it a way to show off, or it might be a fashion statement, because the chassis is always well designed, or it may just be, that you started out on Mac, you’ve integrated yourself into their applications, such as iTunes, and you know that you can lose your Mac world by going to PC, which is not true. But I must point out the facts… on why…. PCs are much better, and money efficient.
The reason why Macs get “less” viruses is mostly because they are much less spammers and hackers, developing malware for Mac. Windows has become a universal platform on computers. 85% of all computers are computers with Windows OS, thus, you have a larger security risked on PC.
The reason why people consider Mac faster is because Mac developers built tailor fitted OSs to work on their different models of desktops and laptops alike. Since they are one joint company, while Microsoft, on the other hand, has to build an Operating System that is compatible with many platforms, there is no internal difference besides its processor bit capabilities. And that makes Microsoft have to sacrifice better architectural designing, and cool features, to avoid problems with lower-end hardware, that might have trouble coping with the demands, this issue was brightly displayed on the release of Windows Vista, which was tested on high-end hardware, but once it reached those low-end net books, and budget friendly computers, its performance disintegrated to a RAM hogging OS.
Microsoft Windows supports almost every software (Except a few built by Apple), and it also supports all the games, movie codecs, and music codecs, and they can understand all mainstream computer languages, not to mention the millions of Windows applications that are imaginable. Windows is the most capable.
Macs are too expensive. They sell netbooks (mini computers) with last generation hardware for over 1000 dollars. A super powerful PC for 850 dollars, which contains the speedy core i7 (ranks number 1 worldwide), and the crisp 5870 GPU (also one of the fastest chips on the planet) from AMD, along with these feature comes a great display, full size keyboard with numeric keypad (backlit), award winning 2x fan cooling system from ASUS, and it actually can be overclocked thru a button that clocks for an extra 0.15 Ghz.
The closest I could get with a Macbook Pro 17” was 3500 dollars, and it still did not meet the requirements, example: it had a 330, a cheap excuse for a graphics card.
By the way, the laptop I was referring to is an ASUS G73jh-RBBX05, Which is now an older model of the series (price was taken when it was still top-notch tech, it still is, but there are already updated models.), the current version is the G74, and it eats Macs for breakfast! And is still much cheaper.

I don’t see why it’s so expensive, why on earth would I spend 3000+ dollars on a computer. That a- is very primitive in terms of flexibility, and b- supports almost nothing besides a few programs that Apple made, strangely coded apps for Mac, and a few others from big software companies (Adobe… (which are available on PC)). I don’t think a logo is worth that much money, when I can invest money on a much cheaper PC, and fit all the compatibility, speed, and graphics performance I will ever need, and still have piles of money left over to get some super expensive softwares, some extreme extra gear, and the rest I can pile up for the next time I need to get a new computer, or upgrade my parts.
Also, Apple has been known to underclock their hardware, from iPods to MacBooks. They do it, because it makes the system run cooler. And provides them with a cheap way, to not only keep it cool, but it also provides more battery life, and it consumes less electricity, so a slightly cooler A/C adapter comes as well. But, are you willing to sacrifice performance for 10ᵒF? What is the whole point of overclocking if you’re going to worry about slightly higher temperatures, that why you have some extreme cooling features (from Windows manufacturers). Some overclockers take hardware to its limits with these features. They go up to 7 Ghz from the standard 3.33 Ghz (Core i7 990xx). This is also away to avoid spending money, and yet, get performance that is ahead of its time. Try overclocking a Mac and see what happens, oh wait… I forgot, Macs use EFI… not BIOS…
Apple is also behind in the tech world, they have been slow to provide Blu-Ray, hdmi, and USB 3.0, while they worked along with Intel to make the Thunderbolt port, which in my opinion, is practically useless, since only 2 devices currently support it, and those.. of course, are very expensive, I could gain more investing in other things.
Also, when you buy a Mac, your investing a lot of money into a system, not only is it limited compared to Windows, but once you need a better computer, you have to get rid of it, or put it in the attic, to buy another computer that cost who-knows-how-much. On a PC, you just simply need to find faster parts online (or at a local tech store), buy them for a cheap price, and swap out the old module in your computer, and then your computer can continue ruling the tech world, while being very cost efficient.
Not to be offensive, but I simply haven’t found a Mac user who is completely computer literate, they do not know what they are talking about, and they always refer to those notorious Mac commercials as the truth, and the reason why Mac is the best, many of them are twisted lies, and I bet 99% of the people who use that excuse have never used a Windows computer as their primary system, or maybe haven’t even used it before at all.
Mac people argue: “you can use bootcamp to install Windows on a Mac, so then you get the best of both worlds”. It is true, you can install Windows on a Mac, when you can’t install Mac on a PC (unless you compile yourself a Hackintosh) but the computers performance degrades, and windows does not run well at all for some reason, and any custom Apple drivers are always extremely glitchy. It is not like BIOS Dual-booting, where the two operating systems are completely separate, you are running Windows off Mac in this case.
Just stay away from Mac, the only reason to get a Mac, is if you ABSOLUTELY have to use one of their softwares which are [sadly] unavailable on Windows PCs, since Apple does have some excellent programs, that I can’t understand why PC programmers couldn’t design a worthy alternative. But then again, PCs offer multiple cheap, or even free, solutions for that problem too.
Imagine a world were only Mac existed, who could afford it? Not many people, it would be something reserved to people with fat wallets… The tech world would be boring, just thank God for PC.
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July 11, 2011 6:44:33 PM

amk-aka-Phantom said:
Anyway, looking at your above posts, you should be totally happy with mine, 'cause you also don't seem to like Apple that much =) Oh, and one more thing that I forgot because it only started recently - I hate how some brands try to copy Apple design or concepts, thinking that it'll enable them to compete. (most of the modern touch screen phones look like iPhone, GNOME 3.0 and Windows 8 borrowing Applications Strip from Mac OS) I wish that, when Apple came out with the iPad, all other brands would just not care at all... but no, they just had to get caught in the game and start making the same useless stuff! Of course, they have to keep their business running, but... how about someone actually outsmarts Apple so THEY have to copy and catch up, for once?! Every time it's other way around: Apple makes something, and all other brands have to take the gadget and actually make it usable (add USB, for example - iPad 1 didn't have it), then sell it. And yet everyone prefers Apple junk! A complete mystery for me and any other person who knows about computer hardware =)


Technology is a business.
Their primary goal is to be competitive and to make money. Windows manufacturers are not going to let Apple hog all the money...
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July 12, 2011 1:13:32 AM

hpfreak said:

Mac people argue: “you can use bootcamp to install Windows on a Mac, so then you get the best of both worlds”. It is true, you can install Windows on a Mac, when you can’t install Mac on a PC (unless you compile yourself a Hackintosh) but the computers performance degrades, and windows does not run well at all for some reason, and any custom Apple drivers are always extremely glitchy. It is not like BIOS Dual-booting, where the two operating systems are completely separate, you are running Windows off Mac in this case.
Just stay away from Mac, the only reason to get a Mac, is if you ABSOLUTELY have to use one of their softwares which are [sadly] unavailable on Windows PCs, since Apple does have some excellent programs, that I can’t understand why PC programmers couldn’t design a worthy alternative. But then again, PCs offer multiple cheap, or even free, solutions for that problem too.
Imagine a world were only Mac existed, who could afford it? Not many people, it would be something reserved to people with fat wallets… The tech world would be boring, just thank God for PC.


my family has macs and i have a pc, so i know both worlds.
i wouldnt say that fully. i have used my families imac running bootcamp for a few years, and havnt had any problems with it. it run smoothly and goodly? :) 
i did buy a pc mainly for games as i cannot see the point of buying a mac cause they too expensive. and all my uni work i need to do can be done in word.
if i had the money would i have gone for a mac? well yes and no, i would like to have two, my beast pc comp which i will just game off and a mac laptop which i can do all my uni work from, or watch movies say if i travel.

if there was no windows, macs would be a lot cheaper. apple would be able to produce many more units at a cheaper rate, its called economies of scale. and if they had no competition (like they do now) they wouldnt have to compete as much as they do now so prices would drop. its simple economics. :) 

there is no clear cut answer to which is best, there is only the best for what u need it for.

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July 16, 2011 4:47:29 AM

The problem with anti-Mac people is they're so stubborn and obnoxious about how right they think they are that they won't take the time to actually learn about Macs and why they're better. It's all about stability, speed, and definitely ease of use. You don't have to click start, then right click on computer and then click on manage to get to a partition editor in OS X, you just open Disk Utility from the /Applications/Utilities/ folder or via Spotlight (live indexing search function).

I don't want Windows fanboys to start switching to Macs. Running Windows as a main OS is a fitting punishment for ignorance.

I do, however, reboot into Win7 for some quad-core i7 gaming goodness on my 27" iMac though.

And for those who like to complain and say that Macs aren't upgradeable, try actually looking something up instead of listening to what all the other uninformed say. When I get tired of the performance of the GPU in my 2009 iMac, I'll pop the screen off and replace it (that's right, connected via MXM) with the 2010, 2011, or perhaps the 2012 iMac when that's released. And while I'm in there, I'll replace my SATA 12.7mm optical drive with a 2.5" SSD and appropriate mount, and the SD reader will be replaced by the SDXC reader from the 2010+ models. Yea, Macs totally have NO upgrade path whatsoever.

Also, my CPU is socketed. I'll upgrade that too while I'm in there.
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July 16, 2011 5:07:27 AM

shdwghst457 said:

I don't want Windows fanboys to start switching to Macs. Running Windows as a main OS is a fitting punishment for ignorance.
And for those who like to complain and say that Macs aren't upgradeable, try actually looking something up instead of listening to what all the other uninformed say.

Also, my CPU is socketed. I'll upgrade that too while I'm in there.


Yeah, how I'd love to see the day where Mac users/worshippers would stop believeing those stupid commercials, just like you said about the PC users...
Windows is great, if you think it is so bad... then why are you "punishing" yourself by turning over to it for gaming? Mac not good enough?

PCs are cheaper, they're ultra compatible, easily updated, and there are tons of cheap and opensourced software.

What would you say the advantage of Mac is?
Currently, I'd say that people have been advertising it for Computer illeterate people...

Here is a perfect illustration of the whole argument:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/65059196@N06/5924255920/


I'm sorry if I was rude in anyway, I know what Macs are, I use them. And I don't really like it... It probably boils down to preference and scenario (budget, technical knowledge... ) But I'd have to say, that there is no logical reason for me to get a Mac, even if I wanted to.



Tell me... What advantage do you have over a PC user?
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September 18, 2011 5:26:53 AM

I have friends who use Mac...all of them are using windows in their macs by dual boot setup...I ask them if you wantd to use windows then why did you pay more for the shinny book...they have no answer to my question...few say looks, others say brand and praise the mac os...never judge a book by its cover, at least have a look whats inside...my friends windows 8 in not far now...it is the best os ever...
i ve used mac and windows both bt i lyk my pc much more...

mac :-p
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November 2, 2011 10:16:32 PM

Ah yes, 12 year old know it all fanboi idiots that define who they are by what computer or gaming console their Mommy bought them.

I use PC's I build myself to play games because I can build a top of the line system for well under $2000. They're ugly, loud, and have to have constant updates to fix an unending stream of bugs and security flaws in Windows, which is a horrible OS written by idiot-savant engineers without the first clue about good design or UX... but it kicks ass at playing games and I love it for that.

I use Macs to create content because they are the best designed computers on the face of the planet and I appreciate good design. They are beautiful, they work astoundingly well, and OS X is an incredibly powerful OS that gets out of your way but still allows you to get your hands dirty if you need or want to.

Macs are the best computers made that address the user's experience over everything else and they rightfully charge a premium for that attention to detail. Apple puts User Experience above everything else and it shows.

If you are too stupid to know that you aren't limited to one computer, that you can use different computers for different things, please get off the Internet; you're embarrassing yourself.
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November 2, 2011 10:18:24 PM

This topic has been closed by Area51reopened
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