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tech cirqus voltaire with lots of problems,please help

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Anonymous
June 14, 2005 9:21:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

looking for any good advice to repair my recently bought CIRQUS
VOLTAIRE as it has a mind of its
own and seems to be almost possesed,have had this game on my wish list
for a few years and this
one has spent a large part of its life with an out of order sign on it
at MAGIC MOUNTAIN, have included a few pics if anyones interested.
http://pinballswanted.com/images/circus1
http://pinballswanted.com/images/circus2
http://pinballswanted.com/images/circus3
http://pinballswanted.com/images/circus4
was warned about buying this particular game from some frustrated techs
but its such a fabulous looking pinball and in real nice cosmetic shape
from sitting in a dark area for so long
(also the only one i know of in my area ) that i thought id take my
chances.
firstly i can manually play a full game if i push ball into plunger
lane to start game off, and all fuses are good in the headboard and
optos appear good in ball trough even though solenoid wont work to kick
ball up to plunger lane.
main problem appears to be related to the RINGMASTER as when i first
turn game on and it goes into test mode the RINGMASTER doesnt move or
do anything and it comes up with a series of messages all connected to
RINGMASTER and basically says failed the tests(here is a pic)
http://pinballswanted.com/images/circus5
ive had a look underneath playfield and the 3 micro switches all feel
like there clicking correctly and register in the switch test.
i can manually turn RINGMASTER motor with machine switched off (with a
bit of effort) and lift head up and down ,so motor isnt seized,and if i
put it into auto test mode comes up with message "ERROR NO MOTION" ,i
have a manual and
it says to check red led and that comes on so power is getting to it.
does have other problems and the kicker solenoid in plunger lane seems
to go mental and work a lot more than it should,i done a solenoid test
and plunger lane ball kicker activated everytime
when solenoids 2 ,3 ,4 ,5 ,6 ,7 ,8 ,33 ,36 is tested in auto solenoid
test mode and if i hit right flipper button in game mode the flipper
sometimes works but more often than not the plunger lane kicker
solenoid works as well.
some other things dont work on playfield just basic stuff like left and
right sling,bumpers,(dissapearing bumper activates and works though)and
it wont kick ball out of ball trough into
plunger lane (as previously mentioned)etc and probably some other
faults i havent discovered yet.
any help/advice will be very much appreciated,thanks,
jeff www.pinballswanted.com
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 9:32:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>firstly i can manually play a full game if i push ball >into plunger lane to start game off

You really need to start in test mode- go through EACH switch, EACH
coil, EACH test to get a baseline of what is/isn't working.

>main problem appears to be related to the
>RINGMASTER

Go into the RM tests and see if the switches or motor are a problem.

>ive had a look underneath playfield and the 3 micro
>switches all feel like there clicking correctly and >register in the switch test.

I would focus on the motor and drive areas.

put it into auto test mode comes up with message "ERROR NO MOTION" ,i

Focus on the RM drive last- get everything else working first.

>and plunger lane ball kicker activated everytime
>when solenoids 2 ,3 ,4 ,5 ,6 ,7 ,8 ,33 ,36 is tested in
>auto solenoid test mode and if i hit right flipper button
>in game mode the flipper sometimes works but more
>often than not the plunger lane kicker solenoid works
>as well.

I don't think I can decode that last LONG line- anyone else?

>some other things dont work on playfield just basic
>stuff like left and right sling,bumpers

Make sure all switches are working in test, then all coils fire. Start
at the start.

Kirb
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 9:34:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

SORRY GUYS,
just realised i forgot to add .JPG to the photos or they wont work,so
add .JPG not .jpg to the end of photo links,thanks
Related resources
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 10:04:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

just wonder if anyone would have experience with the cause of that
plunger lane kicker activating when in tune with so many other things
on playfield.
its really weird to see it going off all the time.
appreciate all your advice guys and intend to follow it through,thanks
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:41:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Do like Kirb suggests...go over every switch in switch edge test until they
are all working correctly using a ball on the playfield. Then move onto
solenoids and then drive motors.

Look for missing diodes, broked solder joints, broken/pinched wires. Look
at the connectors in the backbox and pins on the boards for anything not
quite right.

Work on one problem at a time then move to the next problem.

--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI

Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/4hfev
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/39cjo
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
--------------------------------------------
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:54:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

This really seems like a power problem.

First, start at the beginning. Check the fuses. I know you might be saying yeah
whatever.....but I'm talking check for POWER before and after the fuse. Also,
look to make sure all of you leds are on the power driver board except LED#3 (I
think this is the one) Anyway follow the line all the way to the playfield and
to the associated coils it could be something as easy as a broken/frayed daisy
chained power wire.

Good luck,


--
Eric A.
eavedesianNOSPAM@comcast.net
313-268-0541

Mr. Propane Torch!!

ELV!S,TZ,Cy(l*ne,FH,STTNG,RFM,BH,HS,HS2,B@by-P@c M@n,IJ,RS,BK
Remove NOSPAM to reply
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 4:20:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

could be a bad transistor failed and is now perm on
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 5:24:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

<jeffiseverywhere@hotmail.com> wrote:
> was warned about buying this particular game from some frustrated techs
> but its such a fabulous looking pinball and in real nice cosmetic shape
> from sitting in a dark area for so long (also the only one i know of in my
area ) that i thought id take my
> chances.
<snip>

From reading your post, it looks to me like you're giving it the old "look
under the hood" without any real troubleshooting or really knowing what to
look for or what to do. Unfortunately, there's probably going to be a lot
more to it than "jiggle a wire" or "check a fuse" or "poke a switch" to get
the problems you're describing accurately diagnosed and repaired properly.
That requires experience and knowledge of these machines and some good skill
not only in diagnosis/repair, but in doing a good job so the problems are
cured as permanently as possible and don't continue to plague you and your
game on a regular basis.

So with the elusive overnight "become an instant expert" class aside, I'd
probably recommend one of these two approaches:

1) Find a good *qualified* repair person or shop in your local area that can
repair the game and get everything working well and do a good job at it.

This approach requires a moderate amount of money on your behalf, but is
probably the best as far as time goes- your game will most likely be fixed
and working in the shortest time possible, but at some moderate cost to you.

2) Start out on the long road of learning about electronics and how these
machines work inside and out- a good place to start online is:
www.marvin3m.com/fix.htm There's a lot of other good helpful advice around
the 'net as well. Or you can always enroll in a class and learn that way-
www.randyfromm.com

This approach requires a moderate to major amount of time on your behalf,
but you'll learn as you go.

For some brief advice and suggestions on addressing the individual problems
you're having:

> firstly i can manually play a full game if i push ball into plunger
> lane to start game off, and all fuses are good in the headboard and
> optos appear good in ball trough even though solenoid wont work to kick
> ball up to plunger lane.

So your ball release coil is not working. Several possibilities for this
type of problem- could be a bad coil, could be a bad wire, could be a dead
driver transistor on the driver board in backbox, could be a bad opto, could
be a bad connector- lots of possibilities.

It's a good idea to pull the proper fuse out of the circuit board/holder and
test it with an ohmmeter to make sure it's really good or not. Your game
manual will tell you which fuse controls which coils in the game, so you can
find out which one to pull and test. Just "looking" at fuses doesn't always
tell the whole story- they can "look" good but physically be bad- test them
properly.

Same goes for optos- they can appear good from "looking" at them, but you
may need to run the game's individual switch test to test their operation
properly, or use a penlight and IR detector card or digital camera to
properly detect the presence of IR light and the operation of the receiver
transistor.

> main problem appears to be related to the RINGMASTER as when i first
> turn game on and it goes into test mode the RINGMASTER doesnt move or
> do anything and it comes up with a series of messages all connected to
> RINGMASTER and basically says failed the tests
> ive had a look underneath playfield and the 3 micro switches all feel
> like there clicking correctly and register in the switch test.

Again, lots of possibilties here- could be a bad motor (seized or just
open), could be a blown fuse, could be a stuck or open switch, could be a
bad driver transistor on the driver board, could be bad opto somewhere, etc.
Lots of things to start checking to make sure all the components that are
needed to function and make the Ring Master work, are in fact working and
able to make it go. The switch test is a good place to start. Following
that, I'd check to see if you have a blown fuse or if your 12v is not
present (12v is used for most motors and for optos- this could be part of
the ball trough (ball not kicking out) issue...)

> have a manual and
> it says to check red led and that comes on so power is getting to it.

All this shows is that power is getting to the LED- not necessarily out to
the motor that makes the Ringmaster move. Also, there is circuitry on the
power driver board in backbox that is used to turn the motor on and off, so
that it can run. So there's a few other things besides just a "red LED"
here that would have to be checked.

> does have other problems and the kicker solenoid in plunger lane seems
> to go mental and work a lot more than it should

If the ball release coil is firing intermittently, then that's usually
caused by an opto problem in the trough or a power problem where power is
intermittent to the optos used in the trough. Again, 12v circuitry issue to
look at here.

> i done a solenoid test
> and plunger lane ball kicker activated everytime
> when solenoids 2 ,3 ,4 ,5 ,6 ,7 ,8 ,33 ,36 is tested in auto solenoid
> test mode

If the other coils fire along with the ball release coil (2 coils firing at
same time) then I'd say it's just vibration related- a problem with optos or
12v wiring in the ball trough- that's making the ball release coil fire.

If not- if the other coils only fire the ball release coil, then I'd have to
guess that you've got a low-level electronic component failure somewhere on
the driver board in backbox- could be something as simple as a bad
connection (dirty) at a ribbon cable connector, or could be something as
complicated as a bad decoder chip on the address/data buss somewhere- this
one will require some good expertise to really find out what's wrong.

> and if i hit right flipper button in game mode the flipper
> sometimes works but more often than not the plunger lane kicker
> solenoid works as well.

See above (vibration related issue possibly).

> some other things dont work on playfield just basic stuff like left and
> right sling,bumpers,(dissapearing bumper activates and works though)and
> it wont kick ball out of ball trough into
> plunger lane (as previously mentioned)etc and probably some other
> faults i havent discovered yet.

When several coils don't work all together then that's the time to pull the
corresponding fuses and check them with a meter. Following that, take a
voltage reading between coil lug and ground to see if voltage is present at
the coil or not. If not, check for a broken wire at another coil junction
elsewhere under playfield. Past that, you're looking at low-level circuit
board problems in the backbox.

The bottom line is, if the "technicians" at the arcade couldn't fix it, then
you've got to come up with more "smarts" than they had together to tackle it
on your own. Or call in someone who really has the needed know-how to take
care of it for you. You've got quite a few moderate problems in this game
that are going to require some good know-how to really get it all worked
out. That either takes some time and patience and a considerable
learning-curve on your own, or a handful of money to pay someone else to
tackle it.

Unfortunately there's no easy answers I can give you for all these problems,
nor any ability for anyone to make you an expert in one newsgroup post, but
its always encouraging to dig in on your own and learn about these games and
what you have to do to fix them and keep them running, so if you opt to take
that route, or just bring in someone who can take care of it all for you in
one shot without getting your "hands dirty", I wish you good luck either
way!

Hope this helps!

Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com

We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!




> any help/advice will be very much appreciated,thanks,
> jeff www.pinballswanted.com
>
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 5:26:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I'd have to probably guess it's vibration related- see my previous post for
more info. Lots of possibilities, but usually intermittent operation
problems with ball trough kicker and optos are related to bad connections on
the 12v line that hooks onto the trough opto boards. Or could be further
upstream on the main PCB for the trough boards, or even something like a bad
fuse holder or cracked solder joint around the fuse holder on the main power
board.

The 12v is used for motors and other similar devices- like the Ringmaster-
so this may be something to focus on in your game.

No easy quick answers, but hopefully this points you in the right direction.

Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com

We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!



<jeffiseverywhere@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118754255.694602.269410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> just wonder if anyone would have experience with the cause of that
> plunger lane kicker activating when in tune with so many other things
> on playfield.
> its really weird to see it going off all the time.
> appreciate all your advice guys and intend to follow it through,thanks
>
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 7:29:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

> just wonder if anyone would have experience with the cause of that
> plunger lane kicker activating when in tune with so many other things
> on playfield.
> its really weird to see it going off all the time.
> appreciate all your advice guys and intend to follow it through,thanks

Shooter lane switch stuck closed? If so, the game thinks there is a ball in
the shooter lane and will keep firing the autoplunger.

Sounds like you have ALOT of switch problems and that's where I would begin.

--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI

Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/4hfev
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/39cjo
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
--------------------------------------------
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 7:56:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

great advice thanks everyone,just for the record i am friends with the
techs who
worked on it and can tell you they didnt try very hard to repair it.
also have a friend who is not a pinball tech but a robotics engineer
who fixed my last nightmare pin (terminator 2)after qualified techs
couldnt fix it and will be taking game to him if i cant sort it out.
its just ive never played this game before so am attempting to fix it
myself purely because then i can play it at home asap rather than take
it to my friends place where it may stay for months as hes pretty
busy,but have that option up my sleeve.
will start investigating things a bit more deeply based on everyones
advice,
thanks again,
jeff
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 8:11:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Sounds like some previous botched repairs and miswiring could be part
of the problem so may get a little involved. Your solenoids that aren't
working are all powered by the same fuse which is F102 (not F104 as
indicated in the manual which is an error) so be sure and check out
F102.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 9:20:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

ok guys,
done some comprehensive testing as suggested and below is an overall
summary

SINGLE SWITCH TEST-all switches were tested and working with the
exception of switch 16 "EDDY"as
i dont know what/where it is (remember ive never played a CIRQUS
VOLTAIRE before)
also didnt test switch 63 RAMP ENTER as i couldnt find it anywhere
around ramp entrance,
otherwise everything else seems ok.

SOLENOID TEST-
# 01 PLUNGER does not work which is strange as it constantly works in
game mode
# 02 BACKBOX KICK does not work but plunger lane kicker does
# 03 LEFT LOOP MAGNET does not work but plunger lane kicker does
# 04 MIDDLE JET works ,so does plunger lane kicker
# 05 RAMP MAGNET works (not very well) so does plunger lane kicker,(but
ramp magnet works properly
in game mode)
# 06 DIVERTER POWER works ,so does plunger lane kicker
# 07 JET UP works ,so does plunger lane kicker
# 08 JET RELEASE works ,so does plunger lane kicker
# 09 TROUGH EJECT does not work
# 10 LEFT SLING does not work
# 11 RIGHT SLING does not work
# 12 UPPER JET doesn not work
# 13 LOWER JET does not work
# 14 LEFT SAUCER does not work
# 15 RIGHT SAUCER does not work
# 16 LOCK POST does not work
# 22 MOTOR ENABLE does not work
# 33 POPPER works ,so does plunger lane kicker
# 34 DIVERTER HOLD tries to work ,so does plunger lane kicker
# 35 RINGMASTER magnet does not work
# 36 UPPER POST works ,so does plunger lane kicker
# 39 MOTOR DIRECTION does not work

TEST 12 -FLIPPER COIL TEST
# 01 RIGHT FLIPPER POWER does not work ( but sometimes works with
limited power in game mode
,plunger lane kicker also works at same time in game mode,not in this
test mode)
# 02 RIGHT FLIPPER HOLD works ,so does plunger lane kicker
# 03 LEFT FLIPPER POWER works ,so does plunger lane kicker
# 04 LEFT FLIPPER HOLD works ,so does plunger lane kicker

TEST 16 -
UP/DOWN JET works ,so does plunger lane kicker


TEST 17 -
DIVERTER -nothing happens when tested in closed position ,when changed
to open test it tries to
work but plunger lane kicker also works and just stays on almost
permanently in this test

TEST 18 -MAGNET TESTS
RAMP MAGNET works but plunger lane kicker also works and just stays on
almost permanently in this test
LOOP MAGNET works but plunger lane kicker also works and just stays on
almost permanently in this test
RINGMASTER not sure if it works as dont know how to activate

TEST 19 -
RINGMASTER TEST nothing works ,displays message "error not found"

TEST 20 -
RAMP LOCKUP TEST balls register on switches but lock wont release

TEST 21 -
EMPTY BALLS TEST nothing happens

also tested all fuses for continuity in headboard with a multimeter
with game switched off
and none appeared blown,(not sure how to test fuses with game turned on
or where to put test pins
and what setting to put multimeter at )

did check a couple of wires from coils up to plugs on power driver
board like the ball trough
eject solenoid which doesnt work,but it did have continuity up to plug
on power driver board,also
tested plunger lane kicker wire for continuity from solenoid up to
driver board and also was good.

so what do i do next based on this assesment so far,thanks
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 9:43:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>SINGLE SWITCH TEST
> switch 16 "EDDY"as i dont know what/where it is

Eddy sensor in front of the ring master to detect metal balls.

>63 RAMP ENTER as i couldnt find it anywhere

These are magnetic switches that you can see under the ramp (I think)

SOLENOID TEST-
# 01 PLUNGER does not work which is strange as it constantly works in
game mode

You do have the coin door closed, right? That kills the 50V power.

All the "do not work" sound like a blown fuse or you left the coin door
open. Time to lift the PF, ground the non-banded side of the coil and
see if you can fire each coil by hand. You have to use color code since
there is no diode on WPC coils except flippers.

Are you sure you have 50V at each coil during the coil test?

Plunger lane kicker- remove all the trough opto connectors just for fun

Reseat all the ribbon connectors in the backbox when you get a chance
with the game off.

>DIVERTER -nothing happens when tested in closed position ,when changed
>to open test it tries to
>work but plunger lane kicker also works and just stays on almost
>permanently in this test

Check for binding.

>TEST 19 -
>RINGMASTER TEST nothing works ,displays message "error not found"

motor drive might be a problem.

>also tested all fuses for continuity in headboard with a multimeter
>with game switched off

Did you pull them out? You need to do that to be sure they are 100%

>so what do i do next based on this assesment so far,thanks

Did you read Clays guide that Ray gave you a link to? You will find
this group to be very helpful, but don't expect to have your hand held
through every step. Read the guide and see if you can get any info.

Kirb
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 10:40:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

ok now i realise why eddy test and ramp enter test didnt work,because i
didnt use a ball ,just touched switches with fingers.
coin door was definetely closed when i tested all solenoids.
already reseated all the ribbon connectors in the backbox prior to
this.
i already pulled 3 fuses out that were used in the solenoid area and
put a multimeter across each fuse and all tested ok prior to this.
already had trough opto boards on both sides out just for an inspection
and clean of leds and they tested working in switch test
no i havent read clays guide yet,thats not to say i wont as am trying
to stick to current problem with advice from here related to anyone who
either owns or has worked on a CIRQUS VOLTAIRE rather than possibly
become overwhelmed with more info than i need to know to fix this
game,thanks
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 4:47:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>owns or has worked on a CIRQUS VOLTAIRE rather than possibly
>become overwhelmed with more info than i need to know to fix this
>game,thanks

Many here own CV and your problems are not limited to this title. Any
WMS game from 1990 on could have the described problems.

You have to verify that you have power to the coils and will fire when
you ground at the driver board (Clay's guide SHOWS you how to do this)

I suspect some driver board problems, but you won't know for sure
unless you test everything as clay describes in the guide. It's broken
down into sections, so focus on the coils.

Kirb
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 5:42:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

> no i havent read clays guide yet

STOP what you are doing...and read the entire set of docs. After an
hour, you will know SO much more than you do now. Serously!

> stick to current problem with advice from here related to anyone who either owns or has worked on a CIRQUS VOLTAIRE

All the WPC games are 95% the same...the "guts" are all the same. What
you are saying is "I havent read the FORD repair manuals yet, because I
only need to fix this F-150"! :p 

Again...read the www.Marvin3m.com guides. I PROMISE you will be glad
you did afterward. They will explain many of your questions.

Barry - NY
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 5:51:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I would check the seating of ALL the connectors in the backbox, especially
the Driver board before doing anything else, check under the boards to make
sure there are no plugs hiding.

GRY

<jeffiseverywhere@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118842845.837043.231620@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> ok now i realise why eddy test and ramp enter test didnt work,because i
> didnt use a ball ,just touched switches with fingers.
> coin door was definetely closed when i tested all solenoids.
> already reseated all the ribbon connectors in the backbox prior to
> this.
> i already pulled 3 fuses out that were used in the solenoid area and
> put a multimeter across each fuse and all tested ok prior to this.
> already had trough opto boards on both sides out just for an inspection
> and clean of leds and they tested working in switch test
> no i havent read clays guide yet,thats not to say i wont as am trying
> to stick to current problem with advice from here related to anyone who
> either owns or has worked on a CIRQUS VOLTAIRE rather than possibly
> become overwhelmed with more info than i need to know to fix this
> game,thanks
>
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 7:21:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

ok have taken everyones advice and had a look at the marvin site now
rather than later.
looks like an excellent resource so will study that as suggested and
hopefully sort things out using that as a guide
thanks guys
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 8:21:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

> hopefully sort things out using that as a guide

Don't think eveyone is turning their back on you...they arent! After
you finish the guides and THEN do some poking around, I'll bet you will
solve 75% of your issues. You will be able to narrow things down
yourself and back come here with more precise questions on the
remaining 25%. Your game will be working faster, and you will have to
rely less on your techy friend.

It's that whole "give a man a fish / teach a man to fish" thing. You
can do it!

Barry - NY
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 9:23:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

jeffiseverywhere@hotmail.com wrote:
> looking for any good advice to repair my recently bought CIRQUS
> VOLTAIRE as it has a mind of its
> own and seems to be almost possesed,have had this game on my wish list
> for a few years and this
> one has spent a large part of its life with an out of order sign on it
> at MAGIC MOUNTAIN, have included a few pics if anyones interested.
> http://pinballswanted.com/images/circus1
> http://pinballswanted.com/images/circus2
> http://pinballswanted.com/images/circus3
> http://pinballswanted.com/images/circus4
> was warned about buying this particular game from some frustrated techs
> but its such a fabulous looking pinball and in real nice cosmetic shape
> from sitting in a dark area for so long
> (also the only one i know of in my area ) that i thought id take my
> chances.
> firstly i can manually play a full game if i push ball into plunger
> lane to start game off, and all fuses are good in the headboard and
> optos appear good in ball trough even though solenoid wont work to kick
> ball up to plunger lane.
> main problem appears to be related to the RINGMASTER as when i first
> turn game on and it goes into test mode the RINGMASTER doesnt move or
> do anything and it comes up with a series of messages all connected to
> RINGMASTER and basically says failed the tests(here is a pic)
> http://pinballswanted.com/images/circus5
> ive had a look underneath playfield and the 3 micro switches all feel
> like there clicking correctly and register in the switch test.
> i can manually turn RINGMASTER motor with machine switched off (with a
> bit of effort) and lift head up and down ,so motor isnt seized,and if i
> put it into auto test mode comes up with message "ERROR NO MOTION" ,i
> have a manual and
> it says to check red led and that comes on so power is getting to it.
> does have other problems and the kicker solenoid in plunger lane seems
> to go mental and work a lot more than it should,i done a solenoid test
> and plunger lane ball kicker activated everytime
> when solenoids 2 ,3 ,4 ,5 ,6 ,7 ,8 ,33 ,36 is tested in auto solenoid
> test mode and if i hit right flipper button in game mode the flipper
> sometimes works but more often than not the plunger lane kicker
> solenoid works as well.
> some other things dont work on playfield just basic stuff like left and
> right sling,bumpers,(dissapearing bumper activates and works though)and
> it wont kick ball out of ball trough into
> plunger lane (as previously mentioned)etc and probably some other
> faults i havent discovered yet.
> any help/advice will be very much appreciated,thanks,
> jeff www.pinballswanted.com
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 9:26:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Jeff,

STOP. You sound dangerous and are likely to do more damage than
good.

Re-read the posts and understand that you need to work through this
stuff consecutively.
The advice you are getting is sound.

I own a SAMPLE CV and can tell you that the mechanical and electrical
principles are the same in all these games.

You either have electrical, mechanical or gravity/functional issues.
Same for your new pinball.

Relax and take your time.

Scott.
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 10:00:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

had a pretty good read today and yes i agree that marvins guide is very
helpful,will put some tests into practice over the next couple of days.
just wanted you guys to know i am pretty clued up in regards to fixing
electro-mech pinballs as there my favourites so was enthusiastic to
learn years ago.
with the digital stuff although i love playing the modern games and own
a few i never really got into the technology from a repair standpoint
as the enthusiasm isnt there on the same scale.
hence my reluctance to read the guide,
but i can now understand the comments to look at it and may possibly
learn how these new fangled things work yet,
will update when i have narrowed down faults (and hopefully fixed a
few) thanks.
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 9:25:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

ok guys a quick update for anyone interested
checked voltages at all coils as suggested in MARVIN and everything has
around 70.6 volts on both
lugs of solenoids.
next done a ground wire touching coils test and every coil worked when
i shorted out earth side.
so am going to try this "Testing the TIP102 Transistor and Wiring to
the Coil."
as recommended and it says in MARVIN
"Game is on, and the "test mode" button is pressed once.
On 1993 and newer WPC games, coin door is closed."
but dont know what the "test mode" button is ,only know ENTER,ESCAPE
,+,- buttons on coin door
so do i have it in game mode or attract mode for this test or something
else.
am going to keep reading MARVIN but feel free to provide a better
assesment of what cause
of problem may be based on analysis so far if you like,thanks.
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 10:04:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

i have already done a full test mike as previously described here.
just not sure exactly what mode game should be in for me to correctly
test transistors
attract mode,game mode or something else
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 10:38:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

ok
so i have read most of the MARVIN guide as many suggested.
it clearly says Testing the TIP102 Transistor and Wiring to
the Coil."
"Game is on, and the "test mode" button is pressed once
what so now i disregard MARVIN and turn game off
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 10:43:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Turn the game OFF and then test the transistor. You should never test
the boards with the game on. You run the test modes with the game on.
You use your meter to test the boards with the game off.
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 10:47:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>what so now i disregard MARVIN and turn game off

Mike was talking about testing the trans with a multimeter which is
also in Clay's guide. I think you are talking about testing the TIP 102
with a ground lead to get the coil to fire. This would require you to
have the game on- in any "mode" since power to the coils is always
there as long as the coin door is closed.

Let's take a step back. You fired the coils at the coil and you have
voltage to all the coils. I would suspect that the "ground TIP 102" is
going to work just fine unless all the driver board connectors are
removed. The coils do not fire they way they are supposed to in test
mode (which you say you ran). This now sounds like you have an OK power
to the coils issue, but the CPU is telling >A< coil to fire, but it
isn't or the kicker lane one does.

This is a tougher situation. The decoding of what the CPU is trying to
do and what is actually happening is becoming a problem. I suspect a
bad chip on the driver board, but I don't have a schematic to lead you
in the right direction at the moment.

Anyone else agree?

Kirb
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 11:01:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

i done a quick test earlier on today with the TIP 102s and game
switched off,but not sure if i tested it right as the batch off 102s on
the right hand corner of pcb didnt seem to register at all and didnt
test any other transistors after that.
so wanted to test them again with game on just to verify if i done it
right/wrong the first time
also forgot to mention but when i lifted playfield up while turned on
to lean against headboard i heard an electric motor kind of sound
coming from the area where RINGMASTER is located,only heard it for a
second at the most before it stopped and wasnt ready to look so didnt
see what it was.
so may have a loose wire there??
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 12:43:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

> "Game is on, and the "test mode" button is pressed once.
> On 1993 and newer WPC games, coin door is closed."
> but dont know what the "test mode" button is ,only know ENTER,ESCAPE
> ,+,- buttons on coin door
> so do i have it in game mode or attract mode for this test or something
> else.

You've not gotten to the "test" mode??? Ok that's where you need to start
diagnosing the game!!! Switch edge tests, solenoid tests, flasher tests,
ringmaster up/down tests...those are all in the test menu!

Look in the manual and it will show you how to enter test mode. Push the
right button once or twice until you see it go to A adjustments. Use the
(+) button repeatedly to scroll to T tests and then push the right button
again to enter test menu and then the (+) repeatedly to scroll thru switch,
solenoid, flasher ringmaster tests and the righ button again to select.

Pressing the far left button several times will bring you back out to the
attract mode.

If you have a credit dot, entering the diagnostics will scroll thru all the
flagged switch errors.

--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI

Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/4hfev
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/39cjo
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
--------------------------------------------
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 1:27:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>i have already done a full test mike as previously described here.
> just not sure exactly what mode game should be in for me to correctly
> test transistors
> attract mode,game mode or something else

OFF!!!!

--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI

Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/4hfev
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/39cjo
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
--------------------------------------------
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 2:03:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It's confusing to me what he has done and what he hasn't done or what he is
still having problems with??? Here's my steps to isolate the problem.

1. Game OFF, coin door closed, use a DMM set to "diode" to test the outside
legs against the center legs.

2. Game ON, in attract mode (door closed or door switch pulled out to
service mode), go into test diagnostics and run thru all the solenoids. Any
solenoid not firing...then go to step 3.

3. Ground the center tab of the problematic transistor, if it doesn't fire,
go to step #1 and retest.

4. If it tests good, look at the coil and disconnect the leads and do a
resistance test of the coil. 0 ohms = shorted (probably fried the
transistors as well), Infinite ohms = open coil. Either case replace coil.

5. Coil good, transistor good, then it's something deeper on the driver
board...

It takes a while to track down and isolate a problem by swapping in known
good coils, running tests, etc. It's just common sense really.

--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI

Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/4hfev
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/39cjo
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
--------------------------------------------
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 9:17:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

latest update,
done a couple of things today,firstly i shorted out tops of some random
TIP102s with game turned
on and as a result of that was able to see coils that wont operate in
test or game mode,worked
when shorted out,didnt try them all just enough to test the theory.
then took the power driver board out of game in order to test
transistors properly on
a bench.
tested all transistors which took hours as i recorded measurements of
each transistor.
results were every transistor (APART FROM ONE) had measurements above
what MARVIN said (A reading
of .4 to .6 volts should be seen) ,but every transisitor appeared
consistently above so i was
either reading it wrong (had multimeter on diode test) or MARVIN is
wrong,or something else
for example on the TIP102s right leg averaged 660 but the left leg
averaged 820 unless
measurement is based on one side only,so im assuming measurement is
within tolerances if taken
from right pin.
on the TIP36C transistors the left legs averaged 610 ,right leg 870 .
i stopped writing down measurements when doing the smaller black ones
like 2N5401 as could see
a pattern forming with regards to measurments anyway, but got to the
absolute last transistor
which is Q 110 (2N3904 ) and that appears faulty as it had zero
readings.
thats as far as im at,was happy to finally discover something wrong via
analysis and havent looked
into what Q 110 is yet,have left it for the day.
also forgot to mention earlier but when i checked all fuses the one in
fuse F103 should have been
4 amp but had a 10 amp in its place,so i put a 4 amp in and had no
problems until today when i turned
game on and that fuse blew pretty quickly and brightly.
so am wondering if this faulty Q 110 or something else is related to
problems so far,feel free
to offer advice,thanks.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 11:17:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Q110 is your driver for the coin counter if your game has one. It runs
off 12v so this doesn't seem to be part of your main problem. When you
check the transistors, mainly you are concerned with finding shorted
ones (zero reading) which is how transistors fail 99% of the time. So
apparently you have deeper problems which I was afraid of. Very strange
problem you have there. Hope you get it fixed. Got me scratching my
head.
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 8:22:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>Hope you get it fixed. Got me scratching my head.

I would figure out the buttons to get into coil test mode without
looking at the DMD. I would then unplug the ribbon cables to everything
except the CPU and Driver board. Run the coil test again.

Maybe do a check sum on the eproms

I would focus on what decodes the cpu and tells the coils to fire.
Something in that area is funky.

Kirb
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 9:44:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

hey guys,
have made a new thread purely just to combine everything in regards to
problems and testing in the one posting, below will take you there
(hopefully),still appreciate any help,thanks

http://groups.google.com.au/group/rec.games.pinball/bro...
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 2:14:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

jeffiseverywhere@hotmail.com wrote:
> just wonder if anyone would have experience with the cause of that
> plunger lane kicker activating when in tune with so many other things
> on playfield.
> its really weird to see it going off all the time.
> appreciate all your advice guys and intend to follow it through,thanks
Diode hooked up backwards on a switch assocated with one of the coils
that is firing.
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 4:15:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

That's what I was thinking too. Reversed diodes can create all kinds of
funky problems. Usually you can narrow the problem by looking at the
solenoid grid, checking which rows and columns the problems are and figure
where the likely intersection is.

GRY

"Eric A." <eavedesian@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1119201250.071512.109030@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> jeffiseverywhere@hotmail.com wrote:
>> just wonder if anyone would have experience with the cause of that
>> plunger lane kicker activating when in tune with so many other things
>> on playfield.
>> its really weird to see it going off all the time.
>> appreciate all your advice guys and intend to follow it through,thanks
> Diode hooked up backwards on a switch assocated with one of the coils
> that is firing.
>
!