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Following up on the PAPA pricing/trophy thread...TV Covera..

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Anonymous
June 14, 2005 7:28:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I just finished reading that thread and loved the whole thing. That's
what threads on this group should be like! I wanted to add to it, but
not hijack it so I started this one seperate.

I know this has come up in the past, but is the next PAPA going to get
any TV coverage? It's prime for it I think. It's almost a Cinderella
story. PAPA gets flooded out and takes major damage, but will continue
on. A tournament based on a hobby based on a struggling industry. And
big money at stake. I just don't get how it can't get some TV
coverage. My preference would be ESPN, ESPN2, hell even The Ocho, but
has G4 been considered?

Even without TV coverage, I think it'd be cool just to have someone
film the finals just to sell on DVD. I'd love to have a top down view
of a wizard playing some of these titles. It's amazing what strategies
you can learn by watching others.

Would watching a DVD of someone else playing pinball solidify your
status as a dork though?

MitchelWB
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 8:36:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Probably the only thing you would see was a reflection of the camera in
the glass. Thats why the only tournament footage you see is a bunch of
guys standing around and scratching themselves awaiting their turn.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 9:40:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I don't think that footage would qualify you as a dork, but I don't
think I want to be what it would qualify you for!

I would have to believe though that someone smarter than me would be
able to get a camera to take a good shot of the action.

MitchelWB
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 11:01:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

TV coverage? I think it should be done. Any successful effort by
cable companies like ESPN, or Tech TV could boost the popularity of
Pinball just like it did to the televised poker tournaments. Camera
angles would'nt have too much glare if set up properly. There could
also be small lipstick sized cameras installed inside the machine at
various places.

People may be afraid to try something new, and invest in it, but we've
already seen televised competitions like: darts, hotdog eating
contests, belly flop contests, spelling bee's, you name it. So why not
pinball? ESPN, may not even know about PAPA. We need to pitch the
idea to them, maybe just invite them to come out to see the finals.

I think the A division final four at PAPA would do really well
televised.

Drew
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 2:20:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On 14 Jun 2005 19:01:38 -0700, "Driz" <tinko1847@aol.com> wrote:

>TV coverage? I think it should be done. Any successful effort by
>cable companies like ESPN, or Tech TV could boost the popularity of
>Pinball just like it did to the televised poker tournaments.

it is a little easier to get your hands on a deck of cards as opposed
to a 100% working pinball machine. :-)

Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)


Camera
>angles would'nt have too much glare if set up properly. There could
>also be small lipstick sized cameras installed inside the machine at
>various places.
>
>People may be afraid to try something new, and invest in it, but we've
>already seen televised competitions like: darts, hotdog eating
>contests, belly flop contests, spelling bee's, you name it. So why not
>pinball? ESPN, may not even know about PAPA. We need to pitch the
>idea to them, maybe just invite them to come out to see the finals.
>
>I think the A division final four at PAPA would do really well
>televised.
>
>Drew
June 15, 2005 8:48:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It so happens that my degree is in video production and I worked for a
couple of years as a producer/director of educational videos. There is
no reason it could not be televised that I can think of off hand and I
agree it could be a boom for pinball. The trick would be to get ESPN
or some other network to want to produce such a show and for it to be
done right as it could very easily be messed up. As an example, I play
strategy board and card games as a hobby and a few years back Magic the
Gathering was a phenomenon without equal and it was decided to
broadcast the championships. The broadcast took an very exciting
strategic game and made it dull, hard to follow and a joke. Needless
to say, it was not broadcast ever again.

Diane Sauer

www.shootagainpinball.com
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 1:32:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

cameras that cost $80,000 can display withotu glare. it can be done,
the commentary would have to be a pin pro theirself, just like any
ofther "sport" that is televised.
also, they would actually commentate after the video is edited (like
with poker). not live
so it can be done to perfection.
im sure g4 would jump on it or espn. they do other events less exciting
that are on espn.
someone here has to have a connection and pass along to kevin.
tv is the number one source of awareness/marketing.
look at how big texas holdem is (with people of all ages). people at
gatherings play that card game more than any other now including
blackjack.
its all because of TV on espn, fsn, etc
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 2:25:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Everything on TV/Cable is driven by selling advertising. ESPN or ?
would have to be convinced that they could sell x amount of commercial
spots during an hour segment. What national or local business is
looking to target the pinball players market and spend a lot of money
to do it? I could be wrong but I don't think there will be a lot of
people stepping up to grab those spots. I think the best hope for
airtime would be to convince local or national news media to do some
sort of feature segment, or an indie documentary thing that could be
done out of someones own pocket and sold to a cable channel later. It
would be cool if something got on the air, epecially if the Stedi shows
up and launches the pinball comback of all time ;-)

mateo
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 5:46:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On 15 Jun 2005 09:32:51 -0700, "i'm happy-talky-talking tina, here's
your extra ball" <who_won@hotmail.com> wrote:

>cameras that cost $80,000 can display withotu glare. it can be done,
>the commentary would have to be a pin pro theirself, just like any
>ofther "sport" that is televised.
>also, they would actually commentate after the video is edited (like
>with poker). not live
>so it can be done to perfection.
>im sure g4 would jump on it or espn. they do other events less exciting
>that are on espn.
>someone here has to have a connection and pass along to kevin.
>tv is the number one source of awareness/marketing.
>look at how big texas holdem is (with people of all ages). people at
>gatherings play that card game more than any other now including
>blackjack.
>its all because of TV on espn, fsn, etc

well, that and...

any yahoo can play poker and possibly win a hand
cards cost less than a working pin
more people can be good/great at cards than can be good/great at pin
poker takes 5 minutes to learn but a lifetime to master
pinball takes months to learn and you will probably NEVER master the
skills. :-)

Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 6:44:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Driz wrote:
> ESPN, may not even know about PAPA. We need to pitch the
> idea to them, maybe just invite them to come out to see the finals.

ESPN knows, we've been working that angle, but no luck yet.

I do know that our favorite pinball documentarians will be
there, working hard, and there should be a resulting product
soon.

Kevin
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 4:26:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

true dat:) 
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 4:42:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

actually i work in the "spot"/ production /traffic /mixing business on
radio/tv. many clients just give their sales person their money and
the sales person finds time frames to throw in the spots or figures out
a spot rotation schedule..
many schedules say for example "play 6 spots between 8pm and midnight"
but are not show or program specific.
some clients are specific indeed (i.e. coke, mcdonalds) when it comes
to a national level and they want spots during the super bowl or number
one rated shows on tv, but thats different.
but even they are thrown in 'free bees" during certain time frames
>i.e. radio overnights"
espn , fsn- dont necesarrily book shows according to potential spot
revenue during said show. if this was true, they would not have ping
pong, poms, arm wrestling, and my favorite "rock paper scissors" on
sports chanels which is rediculous. they also would not show shows from
1970's (strong man contest) etc all the time which have no interest in
actual clients wanting spots during a specific time.. TV is more
acceptable in comparison as to commercial radio in having shows aired.
especially when its aired between 12 mid and 5 am.
ESPN and FSN have many opened schedules and if put into the right
persons ear, it can work.

btw- their ratings per chanel on an 24 hr level by demographic
divid-ents instigate spot cost per network station.
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 10:00:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I was kinda thinking about this too... When you watch billiards on
ESPN, you see a lot of commercials for different billiards
manufacturers. It would be really cool if some of the guys with the
stuff, like IPB, MPBA, or Stern could step up and not only maybe air a
spot or two of their own, but maybe help out some of their distributors
so that the time can have a wealth of different commercial spots.

And certainly, lets all help out the cause... I just yanked this email
address right off ESPN's website and it's got to be the right address
because they even have a waiver they want you to read about show
proposals and how if they use any or all of your ideas for a future
show, you will be entitled to bupkus. Trust me, it sounds more
intellectual the way they say it though. and lets all state
specifically when and where ESPN needs to be. Kevin, can you help out
by posting that info here so that we can all get it right?

Shoot them an email at askespntv at espn.twdc.com and tell them
specifically when and where they need to be. Kevin, can you help out
by posting that info here so that we can all get it right (or anyone
smarter than me that knows)? When you got a lot of people that say
they'll watch it, you'll have an easier time selling ad spots.

MitchelWB
June 17, 2005 6:08:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Bet it would go over well in Sweden. They seem to take the game much
more seriously.
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 7:07:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

That's kinda what I'm saying too Kevin. I'm sure that having a few
extra people kickin ESPN in the rump and telling them to get it done,
they could be ready to film this years. Even if it takes them another
month or two to get it to production, at least they'd have the footage
to work with.

The way I see it, it may not help to have everyone send them an email,
but I doubt it will hurt.

MitchelWB
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 8:16:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

MitchelWB wrote:
> Shoot them an email at askespntv at espn.twdc.com and tell them
> specifically when and where they need to be. Kevin, can you help out
> by posting that info here so that we can all get it right (or anyone
> smarter than me that knows)? When you got a lot of people that say
> they'll watch it, you'll have an easier time selling ad spots.

We've been in touch with ESPN a few different times recently,
and I guess you could say there is an ongoing discussion. I
doubt anything will happen for this year. Other channels have
come and gone, in terms of being interested, as well. We're
happy to work with any of them, but it's not an easy event to
present to the viewing public.

Of course, if anyone wants to suggest it to ESPN or other
channels independently, they're welcome to do so.

Kevin
June 21, 2005 2:38:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

And we in Sweden thought it was the dutch guys who took it too
seriously.. ;-)

We did have some tv-coverage during the Swedish Championships, but
then Sweden is a small country and those reports didn´t have to
compete with armwrestling or rock-paper-scissors.

But then again tournamentpinball at the highest levels isn´t always
that audience-friendly. Like ToM (left loop-left loop-left loop-repeat
in absurdum) or CV ("Let´s see here..to the right we have a lot of fun
looking shots but they are all too dangerous, but hey-look over there!
Now that´s a shot-the left loop!")

Still, there are channels in South Korea showing videogametournaments
(e.g. Counter Strike-matches), so who knows? Perhaps some kind of
web-tv would be realistic, but who would watch?
Well-I would, but then I´m from Sweden. :-)
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 11:23:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Maybe a more TV friendly format needs to be devised then.

You mentioned CV for example. What if the tournament wasn't about
scores, but more about speed to a certain point? Such as fastest
player to reach wizard mode. That would certainly make it more
interesting on TV. It would require all shots to be made, not just low
risk point shots. It would also be an incentive for people not to
cradle multiballs but to play all balls as fast as possible.

You could do it fear Factor style. For example, on CV, Player one
plays a game. And in 5 minutes and 17 seconds, they've completed 4
letters. Player 2 gets up and does 5 letters in 6 minutes. Player 3
gets 5 letters in 6:02 and player 4 gets 4 letters in 4:39. Player 2
wins because he got the most letters in the shortest amount of time.

Something like that would be much more conducive to TV I would think.
!