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Innovation Killed The Upgrade Path.

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February 2, 2003 9:54:57 AM

An interesting read.
<A HREF="http://www.tech-report.com/columns/dissonance/2003q1/up..." target="_new">http://www.tech-report.com/columns/dissonance/2003q1/up...;/A>

<b>My Computer is so powerful Sauron Desires it and mortal men Covet it, <i>My Precioussssssss</i></b>

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February 3, 2003 12:38:51 AM

LOL, the death of the upgrade path will truely be upon us when so many people have listened to franks advice and gotten a mini PC. Need two PCI cards? Buy a new PC! Need an extra hard drive? Buy a new PC! Want to use a 5800FX? Buy a new PC!

<font color=blue>There are no stupid questions, only stupid people doling out faulty information based upon rumors, myths, and poor logic!</font color=blue>
February 3, 2003 4:52:16 AM

The TRULY scary part is that I am going to be upgrading my home system in the next month, and this system is only a year old! I won't be able to use half of the components off of it, to upgrade to the latest and greatest! This upgrade is going to cost me over 1000 dollars! (RAM, MOBO, CPU, PSU)

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH....I remember the days where a single processor changeout was all that was needed....ahhhh nostalgia....*sigh*



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February 3, 2003 5:44:55 AM

My motherboard is a Slot 1 BX. My Video card is a Radeon. I have a new hard drive, CPU, and 512MB of PC133. You can see that nothing here is cutting edge and most of it, except for the hard drive and CPU, hasn't even been CURRENT for at least 3 years. And I have no performance problems, I play the latest games at 3/4 detail and 1024x768 resolution. I play 1 year old games at 1280x1024 full detail. And 1.5 year old games at 1600x1200 full detail, when they support it (many games that old don't support resolution that high). You can see that it isn't costing me a lot of money to keep my system up to the latest software. And the only thing I have to wait for is video conversion, which everyone waits for regardless, just a shorter wait for people with faster processors.

I'm looking to upgrade, not because I need to, but because sooner or later I'll run out of time to spend the technology allotment that a state organization issued to me last spring!

<font color=blue>There are no stupid questions, only stupid people doling out faulty information based upon rumors, myths, and poor logic!</font color=blue>
February 3, 2003 7:49:20 AM

I consider myself lucky/forward thinkin enough to get a kt333 that will take 2-3 cpu upgrade steps, 1200C -> xp1800 -> Xp1700 tbred -> barton of some speed.

my first kt133a didnt have much upgrade potential at all :frown:

<b>My Computer is so powerful Sauron Desires it and mortal men Covet it, <i>My Precioussssssss</i></b>
February 3, 2003 4:45:20 PM

Wow. Talk about a whining article! Sheesh. But to have moaned for two long pages and then to finish with the last two paragraphs basically saying it's worth it to upgrade anyway... It's just plain silly. If it's worth it, then why whine in the first place?

Eh. Anywho, that aside, I have to say that the viewpoint is pretty crap anyway. I mean honestly, it's been like that since day one anyway. There's Socket5 to Socket7. Heck, didn't RAM in those days come in like 30, 32, and 72 pin packages or something freaky where each one was not compatible with the other? Then there's when SDRAM replaced EDO. There was the 486SX and DX. There was the introduction of multipliers into CPUs. There has been the ever constant increase in FSB speeds. They weren't always 100MHz or higher. There were 16-bit and 32-bit ISA cards, as well as the introduction of PCI! Crap, how do I fit this card into my mobo? Oops. Need a new mobo... Heck, I've got an old mobo sitting at home with card slots that look like inverted ISA slots. What the heck card even went into those, huh? I sure as heck can't find anything to go into them.

So basically, having the latest and greatest has <b>always</b> required getting a new motherboard.

That's never made the old motherboard worthless. Boo-hoo, he has a P4 mobo gathering dust. Like he couldn't put a P4 2.6GHz into it. Oh no, it doesn't support HT. Like any P4 other than the 3.06GHz does. It'd sure as hell be better than my Celeron 500 system.

I'm sorry, but I basically list that as one of the dumbest articles that I've ever wasted the time reading. The point of view borders on the insanely-ridiculous to just so casually neglect every instance of the very same things from the past as though they never happened. (And not that they were bad things to have happened.)


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February 3, 2003 4:48:43 PM

I work for a shop fixing computers. We get trade-ins, some of which are very old--pentium 100 and up. Often times I will take these and other parts and upgrade the 100 to 233 (for instance). I add some ram, find a semi-decent HD and video, ensure all the extras are there (usb, ps2 mouse, modem, etc) and install Win98 (with all upgrades). I run a series of comprehensive tests for extended periods of time. In the end I get a very solid machine cleaned up that can be sold to families with young children that need it for school purposes and web surfing/e-mail. I do the same for all our trade-ins. Seems to work well and if I can sell them for $200 it is worth it. The higher the processor speed the more it sells for.

My own computers are a 2100+ and a 1800+ with ddr 333. (I'll be upgrading the 2100+ to 2400+ and then switch the 1800+ with the 2100+ and part another system for sale). I upgrade my machines all the time and make a machine from the parts left over and sell them. This guarantees me I have modern systems for personal use and I make my money back by selling the other parts. I would judge I buy new parts every payday or every other.

My point is that even if your motherboard is outdated and you are limited in upgrades those old pieces still have value, not just to you but to companies as well.

The only thing I can tell from that guys article is that he seems to be borderline techie unwilling to push his old stuff and unwilling to dive in and get the new stuff (even if he can sell the old parts to help pay for the new.
February 4, 2003 1:07:50 PM

IMO you are talking about two different things:

Quote:
that guys article is that he seems to be borderline techie unwilling to push his old stuff and unwilling to dive in and get the new stuff (even if he can sell the old parts to help pay for the new.

I agree that there are a lot of computers that are useful today and don't run at Ghz. Simply they work well on the right place. A P233MMX to play UT2003 is as illogical as buying a new P4 3.06Ghz just for internet/e-mail. Also, most of the computers can be optimized and squeezed, fine tunned. One of the most common examples are Pentium XXX MMX that can be upgraded to K6-2, or the miracle that extra memory can do. I've seen computers with 16Mb and W98 that obviously run horribly slow! And it was only used by office/internet/e-mail. No upgrade needed, just more RAM.

Beside this, the article was related to more limited upgrade path. In this point, I feel innovation pace is faster than before and, consequently, upgrades are more limited. Today advances come from every field (memory, chipsets, CPU, GPU, HD, etc.) so it much difficult to make the right decision.

IMO one can try to get the longer upgrade path posible looking at what it's going on. Anyone buying a socket A mobo knows that Barton is the end. But even now a nforce2 mobo has clear a better path than K7S5A (don't remember chipset numbers). Or if I have to buy memory, I will go for DDR333 at least, because it matches XP and Barton but also can be reused on a dual DDR P4 system.


Still looking for a <b>good online retailer</b> in Spain :frown:
February 4, 2003 4:24:28 PM

From my work in fixing and assembling computers I have learned that the vast majority of people that use computers use them for mundane tasks such as mail, web, school, etc. For me, his upgrade path comments are, well far off base as they don't address the vast majority of computer users.

Yeah, I read his comments regarding chipsets, AGP, sockets, etc but really he's talking to a different crowd one not really focused on UT2003, IMHO. I see him talking to the borderline techie crowd those who think they are ready for the jump but aren't willing to actually understand the costs involved in getting a new computer mobo.

My roomy didn't realize he could get a better mobo for about $120.00 that would set him into a much better upgrade path. Nor, did he realize he could use most of what he had already.

What I mean by borderline is that he looks at the machine as the mobo and not the mobo as part of the machine. Sure there are alot of restrictions on parting together a machine from something very much out of date but then again, it is very much out of date so the point is moot from him.

No one guaranteed him that he would have a continuous upgrade path. No one said that every mobo manufacturer would be willing to produce a board at the cheapest of costs so that he could have a better upgrade path 3 years from now.

I went from a pII 450 to an AMD 1800+ and later upgraded my 2nd PIII 500 with an AMD 2100+ with the A7N8X Deluxe mobo. None of this allowed me to use much of my old system except the CDROM and HDs/Floppy. When I made the decision to upgrade I decided based on the ability to upgrade in the future. That being said, again, no one guaranteed him that he would be guaranteed an upgrade path for that cheapo mobo system could have.

I think the point here is that he got what he paid for with that mobo and it isn't up to the manufactures to guarantee him an upgrade. Had his mobo/processor combination been rejected by the likes of XP then he might have something to gripe about. He doesn't appear to have an upgrade path because he chose to not do his research when he started out. Following any trend in this industry for the past 10 years can show you that nothing guarantees an upgrade path.

As for those that bought the canned machines from the likes of Dell, Compaq, HP, Gateway, etc., they were not techie buyers that would be looking for the latest greatest upgrades to the processor and/or memory. Those people bought the retail support package and the brand name, not the techie upgrade path.
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