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AMD Chip Design - Due for a change?

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February 2, 2003 6:29:32 PM

Does anybody else think that it is about time that AMD caught up with Intel in the cooling stakes? I hope that the next round of AMD CPUs will have a heat spreader and a standard fitting for 80mm fans like Intel. Also the THG video shows that AMD have some catching up to do with CPU throttling when things get a little too hot.

Please take note AMD: I no longer use my central heating in the winter - I switch on my PC (XP 1900+) and let the blowholes warm up the room for me. I thought that 25g of Silver on a £50 heatsink would last a few years but maybe I am wrong.

I am starting a campaign for free prometia kits with every AMD CPU - anyone care to join me? Subzero is the way to go.
February 2, 2003 7:27:00 PM

you really think amd chips are hotter than intel?

my computer is so fast, it completes an endless loop in less than 4 seconds!
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February 2, 2003 8:34:26 PM

And how much faster in applications is that Athlon? We all know that at the same clock, the Athlon runs much faster than a Pentium 4 (higher IPC), and it runs hotter because of this. However, the the new(er) T-bred B's are actually pretty cool and overclockable. People have been getting 2100+ T-Bred B's to 2200mhz and beyond.

And just a question: did you run the AMD with the same Volcano 7+, or the stock fan? If it was w/ the stock fan, then it's not a fair comparison. And, what rev. of Xp do you have?

<font color=blue>The All new GeForce FXmx8x- For when you need the lightning speed of AGP 8x on a severely bottlenecked revision of the GeForce2!!</font color=blue>
February 3, 2003 6:13:20 PM

Considering a forum local, alias Metalrocker has achieved a pinnacle in AMD cooling and temps, running an overclocked XP1800+ at 1.66GHZ, with a full load temp of 30ºC, with a Volcano 7 modded using a Volcano 7+ heatsink, you can bet on it that AMD is not always a house heater, as his Tbred CPU is the coolest air cooled AMD I have ever seen. It also beats any Pentium 4 temps I've seen so far, C1 stepping or not, at full load.

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This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. :smile:
February 3, 2003 6:43:18 PM

Clock for clock the Athlon does more than a P4, but AMD hardly can match a P4s clock. PR for clock (which is how they're marketted these days) they're about the same.

Speaking of about the same, the P4 and the Athlon are also about the same in the amount of heat that they generate. I've got the thermal specs from AMD and Intel both right here. So why do Athlons typically run hotter then if both Intel and AMD have chips with more or less similar heat output? Because Athlons have a smaller die size than P4s have. P4s can transfer more heat to their heat sink, while Athlons have to cram all of that heat through a smaller surface area. That's why Athlons more and more need heat sinks with a copper base, to help make up for the less efficient heat transfer of the CPU with a more efficient metal for transfering heat.


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February 3, 2003 6:51:59 PM

Quote:
Does anybody else think that it is about time that AMD caught up with Intel in the cooling stakes?

I've been wishing that AMD would do that one for ages. They're finally <i>almost</i> there.

Quote:
I hope that the next round of AMD CPUs will have a heat spreader

I do too. Extra core protection is hardly ever a bad thing. Too bad that it'll make the heat dissipation slightly worse, not better.

Quote:
and a standard fitting for 80mm fans like Intel.

Eh. Get a heat sink that mounts onto the holes in the motherboard instead of the socket clips.

Quote:
Also the THG video shows that AMD have some catching up to do with CPU throttling when things get a little too hot.

I agree, but at least they're getting there. Intel could do a little better with their CPU throttling as well though. A warning beep code from the mobo would be nice. An actual speed indicator on the PC would be great. I remember when PCs used to have those, along with 'Turbo' buttons. Granted, it wasn't a true 'get the speed and display it' solution, but today it'd be easy to do a real one.


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February 3, 2003 8:48:50 PM

Yeah, however I'd like a nice LED or LCD with the speed shown, not like the old ones with the green LED showing the CPU speed, otherwise it'd look old style, not very up to date.


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This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. :smile:
February 5, 2003 3:46:05 PM

I don't mind old-school looks, especially if they keep the price down.

Of course there is something to be said for a solution like a backlit Game Boy Advance screen to use for display as well. ;) 

I suppose just making a nice USB cradle/cabinet for a PDA built into the fromt bezel of the case and using software that displays temps and speeds and all on the PDA while it's docked would be cool enough.


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February 5, 2003 4:03:47 PM

Very true =)

Infact as we speek my CPU is at 30 Degrees Celcious with case panels on....and she's ran like 7 consecutive Seti@Home data units on the 8th now and been doign Cure for cancer for about 19 hours solid...im also playign MP3's typing this and chatting on the net........im happy with it =)

I dunno why so many peopel have such heat issues mines nice and happy =)

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597" target="_new">-MeTaL RoCkEr</A>
February 5, 2003 5:12:20 PM

Quote:
I've got the thermal specs from AMD and Intel both right here. So why do Athlons typically run hotter then if both Intel and AMD have chips with more or less similar heat output? Because Athlons have a smaller die size than P4s have.

Well the small die size doesn't help, but the main reason is actually that the P4 aggressively "clock gates", or disables, idle transistors so that they don't consume power. The Athlon's transistors sit there and consume some power even while not switching. In other words, in typical use the P4's heat dissipation never even comes close to the design value listed whereas on the Athlon it does regularly. That's for a non-HT P4. In HT mode the P4 will typically dissipate much more heat.

Basically, you can discount a non-HT P4's thermal design power by around 20% for typical use. So a Northwood 2.8 GHz would, in typical use, dissipate as much heat as a Thoroughbred B 2100+ or thereabouts. This is the main reason P4s run cooler than Athlon XPs in the real world, despite what the thermal figures say.

Ritesh
February 5, 2003 6:20:56 PM

Well I'll be damned. That's useful information to know too. Thanks. :) 

The P4 3.06GHz really scares me though, with 81.8W of heat output it's getting to the point of insanity. We've already exceeded the point where PCs are equivalent to most light bulbs. We might as well put a little tray in the side of the case and bake cookies and brownies in there like an 'Easy Bake Oven'. ;) 


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February 6, 2003 12:59:09 AM

I fancy seeing some enthusiast chaining the CPU's power dissipation current to a light bulb, and it turns on!!!

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February 6, 2003 9:37:40 AM

Did you ever see this <A HREF="http://www.handyscripts.co.uk/egg.asp" target="_new">one?</A>

I'm still learning & having fun doing it!! Trouble comes with the things you forget or overlook along the way that make it not so fun!!
February 6, 2003 2:49:11 PM

You know, when I think about it, that actually wouldn't be such a bad case mod. Put a sealed 'baking' bay on the top of the case and then make a custom heatpipe lead right into the back/bottom of that bay. Then I could pop my lunch into the heated 'baking' bay and warm it right up. :) 

Of course, when not baking, you'd have to leave that bay open so that the hot air could be vented. And you'd pretty much have to do it with a 'throttling' CPU though in case you left that 'baking' bay closed too long. The hotter that bay would get, the more inefficient the heatpipe would get, and the last thing you'd want is your CPU to just halt on you. Heh heh. It'd ruin your brownies! Err ... I mean you'd lose your unsaved work. Yeah. That's what I meant. :) 


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