Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)
Bear with me, this is lengthy.
I have discovered a problem with the Gateway install of XP MCE in my 832GM
that thus far Gateway is unwilling to resolve.
This may affect you, too, cuz it may be endemic to all Gateway MCE boxes,
and maybe even all Gateway XP and e-Machines XP boxes.
I ran the Recover Procedure on my new 832GM shortly after first full boot to
be sure those 5 Recovery disks worked. If they didn't, better to find out
now than
down the road when the whole, fully configured system was at stake. The MCE
superset had not yet been loaded nor had anything else. At this point I had
a virgin
system based upon the Gateway supplied OS.
The very next thing I did was to run Windows' own System File Checker (SFC.)
In XP, SFC is part of its Windows File Protection system. SFC should always
be
run immediately after every install of any flavor of Windows, and should
also be
run first if Windows seems to indicate something screwy at the Operating
System
level. See Microsoft Knowledgebase article Q 310747 for more on SFC.
Fred Langa also has a couple of pieces on the necessity of regularly running
SFC, and especially after an install or a recovery.
Now, for the past several versions of Windows (up to XP) SFC was listed in
the Tools menu of the System Information accessory (which itself is listed
on the System Tools menu under Accessories. For pre-XP:
Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > System Information > Tools
Menu > System File Checker.
It is still available in all flavors of XP, but not on any menu. It must be
launched from Start > Run. Type:
sfc /scannow and then OK.
Takes maybe 20 minutes, but verifies the integrity of about 4500 system
files necessary for Windows to run properly.
Do not let the relative obscurity of SFC cause you to underestimate its
power or importance. It is an essential tool.
On my virgin install using Gateway Recovery disks, SFC found several broken
system files.
To fix them, it said, "Files that are required for Windows to run properly
must be copied to the dll cache. Insert your Windows Professional CD2 now."
Note that when SFC finds a bad system file, it first looks to
Windows\System32\dllcache for an unmolested copy with which to effect a
cure.
If it those copies are broken, too, it then looks to the XP Installation
source
files on the install CD, thinking that for sure those copies cannot be
corrupt.
It then first repopulates the dllcache file with (presumably) good copies
from the
CD and then replaces the broken files it found in the system folders with
(now)
good copies from the just-repaired dllcache.
Great. But Gateway does not (and will not) furnish the requested and
necessary Windows install disks on retail machines such as the 832GM.
These are the very source disks that Windows needs to replace those
broken files. Inserting any of the 5 Gateway Recovery disks results in a
"Wrong disk, try again" message.
In XP, SFC does not describe specifically which files are broken, nor does
it allow you to point to where the replacement files may be. It expects
that if you have a legit install of XP, that you must also have the install
disks and that is what it wants to see to fix the problems. It knows where
to look on a legit install CD2, and it doesn't wanna hear any sob stories.
In other words, no conventional install disks, no fix.
A couple of additional notes. For sure there are copies of the needed files
on the Recovery disks. And if you can figure out where they are, you can
extract the lot of them, put them in a folder on your hard drive somewhere,
and hack the registry to point SFC to look to that new folder for
replacement
files, instead of looking to the XP install disks which Gateway will not
give you.
Problem with that is, I am assuming, that the files on those Recovery disks
are the ones that are broken to begin with! That is based upon the
anecdotal evidence that my 5 minute old install from those Recovery disks
is the one that had those several corrupt files. No other way they coulda
been
violated, so to speak. (And yeah, I ran MBR and bare metal virus scans and
such.)
So what is needed is a valid copy of the Windows XP system installation
disks.
The Gateway-specific drivers, apps, and so on do not matter to SFC.
Now, those several broken Windows system files may be of no consequence.
Hey, what's a few bad dll's out of a few thousand? But I am not willing to
take
the chance that some day one of them will be needed and will cause my
system to do a nasty dance and cost me business. Are you?
Two hours plus on the phone with Gateway and the guy says sorry, but
licensing with Microsoft prevents them from sending me the disks that
Windows is asking for to fix the problem. He will, however, *sell* them to
me for the discounted price of $99 USD.
(Note that the new MCE puters bought from Gateway directly *do* include
separate OS install disks. It's the retail ones like mine from Circuit
City, Best
Buy, Comp USA, and so on that do not.)
I told him there are two chances I'll pay another $99 to fix a $1000.00
system
I just bought that is under *warranty.* And Slim just left the building.
I asked how, then, are they gonna fix my system as the warranty promises?
He had no idea, but said he will try to duplicate the problem on one of
their
832GM's if he gets a chance over the next couple of days.
Again, these bum files may be of no importance. But to see for yourself
if you, too, have bad core XP system files, run:
sfc /scannow
And see if you are running a system with a damaged foundation.
This may affect all retail Gateway computers, and maybe even all e-Machines.
I dunno. But none of 'em come with the parts needed to fix them if they are
broken. Nor will Gateway, at this point, anyway, give you those parts, even
under warranty!!
I may be the first guy ever to run SFC on an XP Gateway (because SFC is
hidden in XP) so it is possible that no one has run across this before.
Maybe it is just an issue with gateway MCE boxes. Again, dunno. And
maybe it is just me.
So run SFC yourself and see what your situation is. If you find broken
system
files and you can't fix them because you do not have the install disks that
are
needed for the repair, call Gateway. Or roll the dice and hope that they are
files your system may never need.
By the way, since you will not be able to feed SFC the repair disk it wants,
you will have to cancel out of the program when you are finished. The
number of times you have to hit the "Cancel" button is the number of bad
system files you have.
Bottom line: When Gateway tells you you'll never need the conventional
Windows XP install CD-ROM's, well, here is a situation where you do.
You should know I am a long time Gateway owner and supporter (since early
90's) and I believe the 832GM to be an awesome machine and a real
bargain. The just released 840GM is even a better deal!
And the couple of support calls I've had to make recently were all answered
in less than 30 seconds, and by folks in Utah, USA. They immediately gave
me their name and Badge Number, and while not the most computer literate,
they do listen, and listen very well. The level 2 guys - the CRM's - seem
to be quite knowledgeable.
But I am not gonna let Gateway off the hook on this. If Windows says it
needs the real install disk as the only way to fix a problem, then I / we
need
that disk. Period. This is a simple condition of the warranty.
It is not acceptable to be expected to run a system as complex as XP, and
more so XP MCE, knowing that some core Windows system files are bad. In
fact, it is unsafe.
Wanna fly on an airplane knowing before takeoff that there are some core
parts that are busted, but you don't know which ones?
Wanna expose you personal stuff to the internet knowing that some key files
on your computer don't work, but you don't know which ones?
I'm kinda hoping that it is only me with this problem (altruistic guy that I
am, LOL) but if I'm not, reply to this group with what you've found.
And if I am all wet on this, tell me that, too!
Russ
rustysob at bellsouth dee oh tee net
Bear with me, this is lengthy.
I have discovered a problem with the Gateway install of XP MCE in my 832GM
that thus far Gateway is unwilling to resolve.
This may affect you, too, cuz it may be endemic to all Gateway MCE boxes,
and maybe even all Gateway XP and e-Machines XP boxes.
I ran the Recover Procedure on my new 832GM shortly after first full boot to
be sure those 5 Recovery disks worked. If they didn't, better to find out
now than
down the road when the whole, fully configured system was at stake. The MCE
superset had not yet been loaded nor had anything else. At this point I had
a virgin
system based upon the Gateway supplied OS.
The very next thing I did was to run Windows' own System File Checker (SFC.)
In XP, SFC is part of its Windows File Protection system. SFC should always
be
run immediately after every install of any flavor of Windows, and should
also be
run first if Windows seems to indicate something screwy at the Operating
System
level. See Microsoft Knowledgebase article Q 310747 for more on SFC.
Fred Langa also has a couple of pieces on the necessity of regularly running
SFC, and especially after an install or a recovery.
Now, for the past several versions of Windows (up to XP) SFC was listed in
the Tools menu of the System Information accessory (which itself is listed
on the System Tools menu under Accessories. For pre-XP:
Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > System Information > Tools
Menu > System File Checker.
It is still available in all flavors of XP, but not on any menu. It must be
launched from Start > Run. Type:
sfc /scannow and then OK.
Takes maybe 20 minutes, but verifies the integrity of about 4500 system
files necessary for Windows to run properly.
Do not let the relative obscurity of SFC cause you to underestimate its
power or importance. It is an essential tool.
On my virgin install using Gateway Recovery disks, SFC found several broken
system files.
To fix them, it said, "Files that are required for Windows to run properly
must be copied to the dll cache. Insert your Windows Professional CD2 now."
Note that when SFC finds a bad system file, it first looks to
Windows\System32\dllcache for an unmolested copy with which to effect a
cure.
If it those copies are broken, too, it then looks to the XP Installation
source
files on the install CD, thinking that for sure those copies cannot be
corrupt.
It then first repopulates the dllcache file with (presumably) good copies
from the
CD and then replaces the broken files it found in the system folders with
(now)
good copies from the just-repaired dllcache.
Great. But Gateway does not (and will not) furnish the requested and
necessary Windows install disks on retail machines such as the 832GM.
These are the very source disks that Windows needs to replace those
broken files. Inserting any of the 5 Gateway Recovery disks results in a
"Wrong disk, try again" message.
In XP, SFC does not describe specifically which files are broken, nor does
it allow you to point to where the replacement files may be. It expects
that if you have a legit install of XP, that you must also have the install
disks and that is what it wants to see to fix the problems. It knows where
to look on a legit install CD2, and it doesn't wanna hear any sob stories.
In other words, no conventional install disks, no fix.
A couple of additional notes. For sure there are copies of the needed files
on the Recovery disks. And if you can figure out where they are, you can
extract the lot of them, put them in a folder on your hard drive somewhere,
and hack the registry to point SFC to look to that new folder for
replacement
files, instead of looking to the XP install disks which Gateway will not
give you.
Problem with that is, I am assuming, that the files on those Recovery disks
are the ones that are broken to begin with! That is based upon the
anecdotal evidence that my 5 minute old install from those Recovery disks
is the one that had those several corrupt files. No other way they coulda
been
violated, so to speak. (And yeah, I ran MBR and bare metal virus scans and
such.)
So what is needed is a valid copy of the Windows XP system installation
disks.
The Gateway-specific drivers, apps, and so on do not matter to SFC.
Now, those several broken Windows system files may be of no consequence.
Hey, what's a few bad dll's out of a few thousand? But I am not willing to
take
the chance that some day one of them will be needed and will cause my
system to do a nasty dance and cost me business. Are you?
Two hours plus on the phone with Gateway and the guy says sorry, but
licensing with Microsoft prevents them from sending me the disks that
Windows is asking for to fix the problem. He will, however, *sell* them to
me for the discounted price of $99 USD.
(Note that the new MCE puters bought from Gateway directly *do* include
separate OS install disks. It's the retail ones like mine from Circuit
City, Best
Buy, Comp USA, and so on that do not.)
I told him there are two chances I'll pay another $99 to fix a $1000.00
system
I just bought that is under *warranty.* And Slim just left the building.
I asked how, then, are they gonna fix my system as the warranty promises?
He had no idea, but said he will try to duplicate the problem on one of
their
832GM's if he gets a chance over the next couple of days.
Again, these bum files may be of no importance. But to see for yourself
if you, too, have bad core XP system files, run:
sfc /scannow
And see if you are running a system with a damaged foundation.
This may affect all retail Gateway computers, and maybe even all e-Machines.
I dunno. But none of 'em come with the parts needed to fix them if they are
broken. Nor will Gateway, at this point, anyway, give you those parts, even
under warranty!!
I may be the first guy ever to run SFC on an XP Gateway (because SFC is
hidden in XP) so it is possible that no one has run across this before.
Maybe it is just an issue with gateway MCE boxes. Again, dunno. And
maybe it is just me.
So run SFC yourself and see what your situation is. If you find broken
system
files and you can't fix them because you do not have the install disks that
are
needed for the repair, call Gateway. Or roll the dice and hope that they are
files your system may never need.
By the way, since you will not be able to feed SFC the repair disk it wants,
you will have to cancel out of the program when you are finished. The
number of times you have to hit the "Cancel" button is the number of bad
system files you have.
Bottom line: When Gateway tells you you'll never need the conventional
Windows XP install CD-ROM's, well, here is a situation where you do.
You should know I am a long time Gateway owner and supporter (since early
90's) and I believe the 832GM to be an awesome machine and a real
bargain. The just released 840GM is even a better deal!
And the couple of support calls I've had to make recently were all answered
in less than 30 seconds, and by folks in Utah, USA. They immediately gave
me their name and Badge Number, and while not the most computer literate,
they do listen, and listen very well. The level 2 guys - the CRM's - seem
to be quite knowledgeable.
But I am not gonna let Gateway off the hook on this. If Windows says it
needs the real install disk as the only way to fix a problem, then I / we
need
that disk. Period. This is a simple condition of the warranty.
It is not acceptable to be expected to run a system as complex as XP, and
more so XP MCE, knowing that some core Windows system files are bad. In
fact, it is unsafe.
Wanna fly on an airplane knowing before takeoff that there are some core
parts that are busted, but you don't know which ones?
Wanna expose you personal stuff to the internet knowing that some key files
on your computer don't work, but you don't know which ones?
I'm kinda hoping that it is only me with this problem (altruistic guy that I
am, LOL) but if I'm not, reply to this group with what you've found.
And if I am all wet on this, tell me that, too!
Russ
rustysob at bellsouth dee oh tee net
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