Tom's Hardware: Topic A7N8X Deluxe, a 3'rd go !
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Stormfury asked about the current status of my non-recommended A7N8X Deluxe AMD motherboard, so here it goes:
The new 1002 BIOS did eliminate some of the errors in the old BIOS, but it didn't resolve the low FSB issue. However, something else did, which I will return to shortly.
To repeat the situation, the board wouldn't allow a higher FSB than around 152 MHz in Dual Channel mode with memory frequency set to sync. In single channel mode it would go a lot higher.
I decided to RMA my 2x256MB GeIL PC3500 Ultra, which by the way was performing just great in single channel mode, but very bad in Dual Channel mode. Instead I bought some very expensive memory which was specifically validated for Dual Channel operation, namely 2x256MB OCZ EL DDR PC-3500 Dual Channel. This really made a difference, the board is now stable at a 196MHz FSB.
But more wants more, so I have already prepared the next couple of moves in the quest for an extremly high FSB. As my CPU is already watercooled, I have exchanged the passive heatsink on the Northbridge with a chipset waterblock from Innovatek. I have also added a passive heatsink on the southbridge. The only thing left, is to increase the voltage to the northbridge. Unfortunately this is not possible to do with the current BIOS, which is really a shame, since I have the cooling necessary to cope with the increased heat. I will most likely, within the next couple of weeks, apply the so-called VDD mod, in which the chipset voltage is increased to about 1.75V. This should allow the FSB to reach around 225 MHz.
The A7N8X Deluxe is not the natural overclockers choice, but it's the most feature rich, and with a certain amount of work (which will likely void the warranty) it can be made to run very fast. The ultimate overclockers choice still is, without any doubt, the Epox 8RDA+. But both boards are very picky about the used memory (the A7N8X Deluxe seems to be the worst), so have this in mind if a 200MHz+ FSB is your goal. It requires high quality, special validated and very expensive memory or just plain luck. This has to taken into account, as it increases the overall cost on this AMD based system. I paid more for the memory, than I paid for the CPU + the A7N8X Deluxe together.
<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i> 
Yup, the OCZ EL edition are to be expected of. They are, after being reviewed against the best of the best of RAM out there, the absolute winners. Their technology is unique, which has allowed to reach 480MHZ at CAS 2!(extra !! )
It is of no doubt you would've gotten this far with these, albeit at an expensive price. Elsewhere they seemed to be cheaper, but maybe in your country it is not.
Anyways, you have a significant boost of FSB with them, and I eagerly await to see if you will do some enthusiast-worthy work, the kind that puts you on that top ten list. Best of luck man, hope you can create some monster AMD overclock in there.
What speed and multi are you running at anyways?
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| Quote : The Geil ram sounded like it would make the system unstable. Is there a way you can try Corsair?? |
No, but Corsair make a similar product called TWINX Dual Memory, which should perform like the OCZ EL Dual Channel.
<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>
| Quote : What kind of PCI clock dividers do you get? |
The PCI dividers are automatically adjusted to get close to 33MHz; there's no way you can manually adjust the PCI frequency. The AGP frequency, on the other hand, can be manually set to 66 MHz, regardless of the selected FSB.
| Quote : Hows dual channel treating you so far performance wise? |
It's treating me well :-)
No seriously, in theory one channel in synch with the CPU FSB should be all that's required, but somehow dual channel operation gives some extra performance. However, I don't think the added price of Dual Channel memory is justified. Don't expect more than 5% performance increase at best. I'll hopefully get time to do some comparable benchmarks later.
<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>
| Quote : Yup, the OCZ EL edition are to be expected of. They are, after being reviewed against the best of the best of RAM out there, the absolute winners. |
Yes, I'm really happy about the OCZ EL sticks, they are not the limiting factor.
| Quote : What speed and multi are you running at anyways? |
I sold my XP2400+, which was able to run close to 2400MHz, and bought a cheaper XP1700+ AIUHB stepping. It's only able to do around 2300MHz, but I saved around 100 Euro (more than 100 USD). Currently, it's running at 2254 MHz, 196x11.5, but I only got it recently, so I've not found the sweet spot just yet. After the VDD mod, I expect (and hope) 225x10.0 to be the sweet spot.
<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>
| Quote : I would like to remove my northbridge heatsink and replace it with a waterblock.. how do i get the chipset off, what is under the chipset (thermal paste??) and can it be cleaned off to add arctic silver 3 paste ? How did you attach it to the northbridge? |
On the backside of the motherboard, you will see the two plastic pins from the Northbridge coming out through the board. The end of the pins are shaped like arrows, so apply a bit of pressure on each flip on the arrowhead and push the pins back through the holes in the motherboard. Then, using a flat-headed screwdriver, place the head of the screwdriver between the bottom of the heatsink and the green PCB of the Northbridge chipset. Paying great attention, twist the screwdriver gently. Try different places around the heatsink, and little by little the heatsink will come off the Northbridge. They have used some pink chewing gum like stuff which is very sticky. The pink stuff is easily removed with benzine. Then clean the surface of the chip with rubbing alcohol.
I used OCZ's new Premium Thermal Compound which is even better than Artic Silver III. The waterblock was attached with some long thin plastic screws with shims and nuts.
<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>
| Quote : i cannot believe the speeds people are gettin their Tbreds up to!! my god, theres posts recently of several people gettin 1500mhz chips up to 2300mhz or more!!!! on a 200mhz FSB! |
Yes, but mine was actually hand-picked among a bunch of XP1700+ AIUHB steppings. My dealer does actually benchmark all CPU's he gets, and then sells the better ones (2.2GHz - 2.3GHz) as "super extreme stepping" for 76 % above the current lowest street price. I got myself such a chip. I could be, that I have been wasting my money, if it turns out that most AIUHB steppings can do above 2.2GHz. I didn't wan't to gamble, so I paid 76 % more, which corresponds to the lowest street price for a XP2100+.
<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Copenhagen on 02/15/03 03:27 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
I just got a chaintech nforce2 board and preordered a 2500+ barton.
I got 512 megs of geil pc3200 ultra, will it do 200mhz dual(once they patch the bios to fix the barton 400fsb issue).
PS: bought a 9700 pro as well, and another 120 gig harddrive(480 gigs storage now). I love tax returns, and im gonna love 2.4ghz of barton goodness w00t.
Heatsinks, if you dont overclock, use the <b>STOCK!</b>
That's some fairly good choices Matt, but don't count on your GeIL PC3200 Ultra doing 200MHz Dual in Sync. It's definately good memory in Single Channel, but you have to be lucky to make it run 200MHz in Dual Channel Sync.
How come you chose the Chaintech instead of the Epox 8RDA+ ?
The Epox will let you unleash the Bartons full potential.
<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>
If it dosent do dual 400, I will rma it to newegg, no skin off my nuts because the 2500 is on preorder till the 22nd and the rest arrives tomorow.
As for the chaintech, it was the only mobo with more than 2 ide channels and mounting holes, it was a bit pricey, but the extras are worth it imo.
(plus from all reports its damn stable and fast)
How will the epox allow me to unleash anymore than the chaintech?
check anandtechs 6 nforce 2 roundup and you see they are relativly equal(save for the features I needed)((+1 ide and mounting holes)
Heatsinks, if you dont overclock, use the <b>STOCK!</b>
| Quote : How will the epox allow me to unleash anymore than the chaintech? |
If overclocking is one of your primary goals, Epox is the tweaking master among nForce2. It has been designed for extreme overclocking. Where others incorporate a 2 channel voltage regulator, Epox has a 3 channel. This enables the board to deliver a stable Vcore of up to 2.2V. A7N8X Deluxe only allows a Vcore of up to 1.85V. If a Vcore mod is implemented, the A7N8X Deluxe has difficulty in delivering a high stable Vcore.
Furthermore Epox allows for a higher memory voltage (up to 2.9V) and a higher AGP bus voltage (up to 1.8V).
<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>
Read the anandtech review, the chaintech has the same max voltage limit, No idea about how clean the power is, but with my alphapal8045 I wont be going over 1.85 volts anyways.
I rmaed the ram to newegg, found a kickass deal from excalaburpc.com, 2 512 megs of kingston pc3000 ultra for 80 bucks each, thats a gig of ram for about what I almost paid for 512 megs, even if it limits me to 180fsb or so, its still a better bargain imo.
Also, while ocing will be a standard fare(hey, its mati axp@1.87ghz saro) With this setup, power will not be lacking, and even a moderate oc will be well, overkill.(neverthought Id say it).
Plus. I have a feeling I will have hard enough time keeping stable with the move to ati, but the damn card is so good and relativly cheap.
Heatsinks, if you dont overclock, use the <b>STOCK!</b>
It'll be interesting to see how your new ATi card will fare on your computer. But it's great you're giving them a chance, as I recall so often have you not always given ATi a break. Hope it goes well, most did!
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Ati had crap drivers, and they cheated at quake upon release, which is why I never bought an 8500(let alone you could get much more bang for your bucks with a gf4).
The 9700 is unmatched in price and performance, and the less troublesome drivers are not worth 25% less performance for me to have chosen a ti4600.
as for the fx, lol, I already own a vaccumm cleaner thankyou very much nvidia.
Heatsinks, if you dont overclock, use the <b>STOCK!</b>
Not to forget the 2-3 times better performance when AA or Aniso are used!
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I am liking it so far(popped it into the old system(~1.7ghz axp abit kg7 raid 512 megs pc2100 ddr ram(150fsb) untill the barton 2500+ arrives, everything else is here.
I rmaed the 512(2x256) megs of geil pc3200 ultra(came in a damn fine looking case and the ram was beautiful)
replaced it with a GIG(2x512) of kingston pc3000 ultra(cl2 etc), which arrived, and looks nice, will do 3200 cl2 by most accounts.
The best part, it was only 10 bucks more total than HALF THE AMOUNT OF THE GEIL(1 gig versus 512), excalaburpc had a great deal which ended monday(but may restart) ~80 bucks for 512 megs of ultra pc3000.
Cant wait for the barton, twco shows an eta of 2/21, Ill give it till the 28th before canceling and getting a 2400+, or maybe get a 2800 barton from newegg, not sure yet.
have a chaintech sitting with a 120 gig hdd(for clean reinstall) with the ram waiting for the proc, the chaintech board(nforce 2 170 bucks), was tight, [-peep-] came with EVERYTHING, including a temp monitoring bay with 4 usb and a firewire port(and speaker/mic inputs) 3 rounded ide cables, 3 serial ata cables, 3 ide channels on board, 2 sata(with sata+ide raid).
Sweet mobo, spendy but you get so much extra crap(even a keychain).
Great ocer too!
Cant wait for the barton.
Heatsinks, if you dont overclock, use the <b>STOCK!</b>
I am pretty confident the Barton will OC well, at 1.83GHZ. But post temps before you do so!
I am planning to have my friend get this CPU with a Volcano 7+, run it at LOW for silent cooling, and still remain very cool.
If the CPU turns out bad, ya know, an XP1700+ Tbred B is a much better killer than an XP2800+ or XP2400+. Seems to me the XP1700+ is able to reach 2.4GHZ quite easily compared to the XP2400+ from Copenhagen's watercooling setup. And it reached 2.4GHZ with the PAL8045 like you have! 2.4GHZ is nothing to laugh at anyways, 100MHZ more and it is a 3.2GHZ competitor.
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Eden, I'm now able to run Prime95 @ 2457.84 MHz stable with a 1.85V Vcore on my A7N8X Deluxe, Prime95. Not with my XP2400+ though. It's with something even cheaper :-)))
It will be interesting to see whether Matisaro's Barton will be able to beat me in total overclock and various benchmarks.
<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>
It's nice to see the recent AMD systems being absolutly cool running.
Think about it, the XP1700+, at 1.47GHZ. Then think about the Thunderbird 1.4GHZ 0.18m. Tbird ran average 55ºC, rarely would you ever hear of 40ºC, IDLE. Tbred Bs at near that speed, in fact running higher clocked, are running at a cool 35ºC load. Imagine SOI AthlonXPs!
Oh and it sounds like Copenhagen has hit the jackpot if he got a cheap XP1700+ Tbred B at 2.45GHZ! Let's hope he can do more with the voltage mod!
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| Quote : Oh and it sounds like Copenhagen has hit the jackpot if he got a cheap XP1700+ Tbred B at 2.45GHZ! |
No, it's not a XP1700+ JIUHB, it's a XP2100+, I have to admit.
I have had a number of XP1700+ JIUHB's, and the highest I ever managed was 2214MHz @1.85V with the very same setup. The XP2100+ adds almost 250MHz on top of the XP1700+. The XP1700+ still has the best price/performance ratio, but the XP2100+ is still so cheap, that the added price is more than justified. Plus, you get some bragging rights in terms of clockspeed. :-))
<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>
I see, though I had heard of the XP2100 being a formidable overclocker. Yeah the price is very justified if you can get it this far. Though you can be able to go further, if the Barton 2.17GHZ could go to 2.5GHZ on air.
Good luck though, these speeds are damn fine for a K7 now.
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The retail barton was pushed back to 03/04 at twco computers, im in no rush as the 9700 has breathed new life into my system enough for me to wait.
The chaintech mobo rocks, so many connectors and cables, and the frontplate is tight, too bad its sitting in my closet with 1 gig of pc3200 ddr ram and another 120 gig wd special edition harddrive just waiting for the barton.
(although I may jack the ram and use it while I wait, debating, the hdd is off limits as its for a clean install, and the heatsink I use(alphapal 8045) makes it inconvinenant to switch mobos right now(have to rebuild when the barton arrives too and thats too much trouble).
So we will see.
Heatsinks, if you dont overclock, use the <b>STOCK!</b>
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