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xxsk8er101xx   02-20-2003 at 05:42:54 PM

Palladium. The evil intrusive device that invades everyones personal privacy does not sit well. Palladium is in the prescott CPU. I URGE everyone to boycott this product and send a clear message that the public will not tolerate intrusive devices that invade your privacy.

Life is irrelivent and irrational.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>

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sjonnie   02-20-2003 at 06:06:36 PM
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Uh, I did a google for Palladium (only previously knowing of it from my <A HREF="http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Pd/key.html" target="_new"> chemistry </A> lessons). Number one hit was this <A HREF="http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html" target="_new">article</A> from Ross Anderson at University of Cambridge,UK.

I think you have to laugh a bit. How much money did Microsoft invest in trying to make XP secure? And then blocking certain registration codes from SP1! $$$ down the drain. I think we can guarantee that this will be cracked even before it's implemented.

Reply to sjonnie
Teq   02-20-2003 at 06:47:09 PM
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GEES!

That article almost makes me want to ditch the internet altogether!

Reply to Teq
wurrmm   02-20-2003 at 06:49:38 PM
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This is wrong!!! Down with TCPA / Palladium!!!!

One mans throw-away is another mans god-box. Help friends in need, I always do!!
Then again, having extra parts are great for making dedicated servers for LAN parties!!!!

Reply to wurrmm
wurrmm   02-20-2003 at 06:53:28 PM
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What if I don't want to be on the internet??? Is their stupid software/hardware gona make me?? They say they are going to impliment it slowly, the consumers will not stand for this. I have the legal right to make backup copies of my software for personal use. If want to listen to my CCR cd that I PAID FOR, on my mp3 player than I have the freakin right to do it.

One mans throw-away is another mans god-box. Help friends in need, I always do!!
Then again, having extra parts are great for making dedicated servers for LAN parties!!!!

Reply to wurrmm
Lonemagi   02-20-2003 at 07:00:23 PM
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If AMD keeps off of this bandwagon, they could get a lot of new users.

<A HREF="http://tekkoshocon.com/" target="_new">http://tekkoshocon.com/</A> Southeast Pennsylvania gets an Anime Convention!

Reply to Lonemagi
Flamethrower205   02-20-2003 at 07:01:54 PM
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Yeah, a LOT more users. Whole companies in some cases. I mean wtf, what if this shite leaks important info by mistake that costs a business several hundred million!

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

Reply to Flamethrower205
Lonemagi   02-20-2003 at 07:03:55 PM
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Ive already seen some of this. A friend of mine just got XP Pro sp1, installed it and had a bit of trouble installing some of his older hardware and drivers. After he got everything working, a message appeared telling him that his pc changed too much and that meant that his license needed registering again. So he called MS, and registered, but also bit*hed them out for this crap.

<A HREF="http://tekkoshocon.com/" target="_new">http://tekkoshocon.com/</A> Southeast Pennsylvania gets an Anime Convention!

Reply to Lonemagi
Teq   02-20-2003 at 07:04:45 PM
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And what happens when they start selling stuff that won't run unless it can find the Palladium crap in your system?

Man, this sucks!

Reply to Teq
xxsk8er101xx   02-20-2003 at 07:05:23 PM
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right on!

If i remember correctly it also allows for authorities, such as cops, to scan your computer for illegal porn for example, with out any warrrant - which is unconsitutional as any cop, fbi, cia, must obtain a warrant from teh courts to search any of your belongings. And, it is entirely illegal for any vendor to be sneaking around your computer. Thats what i read on what they want to do. But memory tends to be rather flacky. Does anyone know for sure about this?

Life is irrelivent and irrational.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>

Reply to xxsk8er101xx
Lonemagi   02-20-2003 at 07:07:58 PM
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"Leaks" shure

"Yes ocifer, it was an accident"

I bet MS has a bunch of interest in what other software companies are doing.

This would sucessfully make Bill Gates the most powerful man in the world, if it was implimented globaly. At that point, you will find me living in a shack in the mountains, with close access to my stockpile of food, supplies and weapons.

Science fiction becomes true once again.. kind of like teh anime "Darkseid Blues"


.. or possibly Terminator... but thats a stretch.

<A HREF="http://tekkoshocon.com/" target="_new">http://tekkoshocon.com/</A> Southeast Pennsylvania gets an Anime Convention!

Reply to Lonemagi
xxsk8er101xx   02-20-2003 at 07:08:58 PM
- 0 +

boycot it. Don't buy it. Use a pencil and paper if you must! Just don't buy into this. You don't need the latest software. Downgrade. It'll do the samething. You don't need to upgrade every 6 months. If you got a 3ghz processor, why in gods name do you need a 3.2ghz or a 4ghz processor? Once intel sales are reduced to ~0, management will think twice in supporting palladium and will die. But, only if the public boycotts the products that have palladium support.


Life is irrelivent and irrational.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by xxsk8er101xx on 02/20/03 01:13 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

Reply to xxsk8er101xx
Flamethrower205   02-20-2003 at 07:10:35 PM
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If they do that, Flame turns his brain on again (that means I sit and think for a few mins) and I h4x0r the shite out of the software so it runs fine.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

Reply to Flamethrower205
Flamethrower205   02-20-2003 at 07:11:57 PM
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My dad for instance is the head of a hedgefund. Now what happens if this palladium crap leaks his trading proggies/info/ messes up their incoming or outgoing trades! That could cost him many millions in a second (and intel/ ms would have hell to pay).

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

Reply to Flamethrower205
wurrmm   02-20-2003 at 07:21:51 PM
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The software and hardware is doing the snooping and reports stuff to a master server. If that is not illegal it should be.

One mans throw-away is another mans god-box. Help friends in need, I always do!!
Then again, having extra parts are great for making dedicated servers for LAN parties!!!!

Reply to wurrmm
ZER0   02-20-2003 at 07:24:41 PM
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u know it can be disabled just like the p3 serial number.
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
question 12

Reply to ZER0
Lonemagi   02-20-2003 at 07:26:06 PM
- 0 +

Viva La DOS!

ah the days of dot matrix

<A HREF="http://tekkoshocon.com/" target="_new">http://tekkoshocon.com/</A> Southeast Pennsylvania gets an Anime Convention!

Reply to Lonemagi
wurrmm   02-20-2003 at 07:27:17 PM
- 0 +

It can't be disabled 100% though.

One mans throw-away is another mans god-box. Help friends in need, I always do!!
Then again, having extra parts are great for making dedicated servers for LAN parties!!!!

Reply to wurrmm
sjonnie   02-20-2003 at 07:30:40 PM
- 0 +

Quote :

boycot it. Don't buy it.


Yeah but what proportion of the market is this going to affect anyway? I mean, big buisness doesn't give a monkeys because they don't use illegal software anyway. And what proportion of home users use illegal software? My guess is only the CD-copying eMule downloading boys are going to be really worried by this. And they are the number one most likely people to get and install a hack anyway...like I said, this is a waste of money.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/myanandtech.html?member=114979" target="_new">My PCs</A> :cool:

Reply to sjonnie
RaPTuRe   02-20-2003 at 07:33:38 PM
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But this TCPA/Palladium requires the Internet to run (this pretty much means a 24/7 connection (but not necessarily)right?), so what about countries that don't have DSL (or such) connections and still rely on dial-up or don't have Internet at all?! Do they just NOT get to use the new technologies that require TCPA???

AMD better not go along with this! Baa.

Who's General Failure and why's he reading my disk?

Reply to RaPTuRe
Lonemagi   02-20-2003 at 07:35:05 PM
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I have been trying to get everyhing in a legal way for a bit now. But this is the camel's nose underthe tent. It is not much for now, but later on, you are screwed.

Just think of it like a frog. You put the frog in a pot of boiling water, it will try to jump out. Put the frog in nice warm water, and he wont do anything. Then you heat the water slowly, so the frog passes out before it dies. Never knows what hit it.

<A HREF="http://tekkoshocon.com/" target="_new">http://tekkoshocon.com/</A> Southeast Pennsylvania gets an Anime Convention!

Reply to Lonemagi
Lonemagi   02-20-2003 at 07:37:05 PM
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Looks like it needs the net once, but then this chip does everything from bios level, which could lock you out until you log on again

<A HREF="http://tekkoshocon.com/" target="_new">http://tekkoshocon.com/</A> Southeast Pennsylvania gets an Anime Convention!

Reply to Lonemagi
dhlucke   02-20-2003 at 07:39:35 PM
- 0 +

I won't buy that.

But...

Do you remember how worried we were about WinXP? It was cracked before it was released.

But...

Do you realize how apathetic the average consumer is. They'll be boiled slowly and won't know what's hitting them.

But...

There are other countries on this globe, and if worst comes to worst I would expect countries like China and Russia to tear this apart.

But...

AMD is going to have a field day with this.

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?</A></font color=red>

Reply to dhlucke
sjonnie   02-20-2003 at 07:46:01 PM
- 0 +

Presumably PCs without internet will still work so I guess you could just block TCPA connections with your firewall.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/myanandtech.html?member=114979" target="_new">My PCs</A> :cool:

Reply to sjonnie
phill21   02-20-2003 at 07:48:50 PM
- 0 +

im sorry to very stupid but what do you mean?

If it blows up? Opps.... I must have been doing something wrong

Reply to phill21
sjonnie   02-20-2003 at 07:50:20 PM
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Quote :

AMD is going to have a field day with this.


From the article by Ross Anderson
"Intel and AMD appear to plan for the second generation of TCPA functionality to be provided in the main processor for free."

He seems to think AMD are going along with it also...



<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/myanandtech.html?member=114979" target="_new">My PCs</A> :cool:

Reply to sjonnie
dhlucke   02-20-2003 at 07:52:13 PM
- 0 +

I skimmed the article and missed that. Damn.

Nonetheless, I'm rooting for the Chinese and Russians to make things right.

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?</A></font color=red>

Reply to dhlucke
Lonemagi   02-20-2003 at 07:54:35 PM
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Quote: <A HREF="http://www.amd.com/gb-uk/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543_552~840,00.html" target="_new">Amd's Site</A>

Quote :

AMD and Wave Systems will work jointly to incorporate Wave's Trusted Client architecture as a core component of PC motherboards and other platforms. This will add new functionality including new user privacy options, distributed e-commerce and transaction capability, and a programmable security hardware infrastructure. The extended functionality will be based on an evolving standard for PC platform security being created by the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance (TCPA). Both AMD and Wave Systems participate in the TCPA, which is an industry alliance focused on hardware and software specifications to enhance security and trust of the PC platform. Over the past year, Wave has been working with many of the important industry leaders to develop an open industry standard referred to as the Embedded Security Application System (EMBASSY) based on Trusted Client architecture.

"We are committed to using the TCPA specification as a building block for an open programmable Trusted Client Architecture as we move forward," states Gregory Kazmierczak, Vice President, Technology, Wave Systems Corp.. "The EMBASSY System is a robust platform capable of flexibly supporting a wide range of security and privacy standards as they evolve. Wave is shipping versions of their Trusted Client Architecture in peripheral devices, but believes that ultimately this functionality should be a fully integrated component of computing platforms. AMD plays a pivotal role in bringing this functionality to home and business computing."



Guess its time to start supporting Cyrix based computers... lol

<A HREF="http://tekkoshocon.com/" target="_new">http://tekkoshocon.com/</A> Southeast Pennsylvania gets an Anime Convention!

Reply to Lonemagi
xxsk8er101xx   02-20-2003 at 08:08:45 PM
- 0 +

you can probably hack the software that requires palladium. However, you cannot hack the processor. But i think the software requires the instructions you see. Palladium are isntruction sets like SSE are. If they have those instructions through out the program, it would be almost impossible to crack!

Life is irrelivent and irrational.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>

Reply to xxsk8er101xx
xxsk8er101xx   02-20-2003 at 08:11:17 PM
- 0 +

when cops invade your computer via remote access without a warrant you will care then!

You also have a legal right under the digital mellinium act to make back up copies of your existing software. You are also aloud to make MP3's. You are also aloud to make copies of your files and move them around.

You have not read what palladium is have you sir?

Life is irrelivent and irrational.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>

Reply to xxsk8er101xx
xxsk8er101xx   02-20-2003 at 08:12:41 PM
- 0 +

of course, but what happens when software requires it?

Life is irrelivent and irrational.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>

Reply to xxsk8er101xx
sjonnie   02-20-2003 at 08:36:23 PM
- 0 +

Quote :

when cops invade your computer via remote access without a warrant you will care then!


Ach come on, current firewalls can prevent any access you do not wish. And yes I did read Ross Anderson's article (to the end) and yes he also says that it will be cracked and he also points out that alot of possible implementations will probably not happen because they are illegal. Security is always going to get better and better but hackers are always going to get around it. In any event, if you are obeying the law TCPA/Palladium won't make a scrap of difference to you.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/myanandtech.html?member=114979" target="_new">My PCs</A> :cool:

Reply to sjonnie
dhlucke   02-20-2003 at 09:05:21 PM
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Quote :

In any event, if you are obeying the law TCPA/Palladium won't make a scrap of difference to you.



LOL. Lets be realistic.

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?</A></font color=red>

Reply to dhlucke
RaPTuRe   02-20-2003 at 09:15:08 PM
- 0 +

and when all the firewalls are TCPA?

Who's General Failure and why's he reading my disk?

Reply to RaPTuRe
xxsk8er101xx   02-20-2003 at 09:39:01 PM
- 0 +

you do know that the prescott, Intels next CPU, has Palladium hardwired in the CPU?

Life is irrelivent and irrational.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>

Reply to xxsk8er101xx
RCPilot   02-20-2003 at 10:04:20 PM
- 0 +

Big Brother with a whole new twist. If this comes to pass, it's the death of computers for anything but governments & spies. We'll all be shut out of it!

If it ain't broke, take it apart & see why not!

Reply to RCPilot
imgod2u   02-20-2003 at 10:36:56 PM
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Looking over the Prescott New Instruction set, I see nothing for security or this "LaGrande" thing. There's a discussion over at Aces that the circuitry is there but it's disabled because M$ doesn't have any Palladium software out yet. In either case, the security measures themselves aren't any "invasions of privacy". But it would mean that software developers would get more power to force you to jump through hoops in order to use their software. This, in the hands of companies like your favorite game designer may or may not be a bad thing. In the hands of M$............well, look at my sig.

"We are Microsoft, resistance is futile." - Bill Gates, 2015.

Reply to imgod2u
CaptainNemo   02-21-2003 at 12:08:39 AM
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This is why I will probably have two computers shortly; one will be used for content creation and will NEVER be connected to the internet, whereas the other will be permanently connected and only used for surfing and uploading files...

Reply to CaptainNemo
RCPilot   02-21-2003 at 01:41:27 AM
- 0 +

Man I don't like it one little bit. Let me ask you this. Who owns the computer you put together? Microsoft, AMD, Intel, the Artists Unions that are ramming the BS through? The governments? The money grabbers of the world? They don't contribute one cent to your computer or the net. They want to make a killing without doing a thing but billing you.

In my garage I have quite a set of tools. If you come in & pull open a drawer in my tool box & take a screw driver, I can have you put in jail for stealing. If you put a piece of what ever you want to call it software / hardware (I choose to call it Big Brother) that's just fine. Is that what your trying to explain to me? It's just plain out & out right WRONG. I'm sorry, I believe in being free & not having someone's nose crammed up my a-- crack so to speak.

I run legal, but this concept is what scares the byjesus out of me! If they want to control everything like that then let them put a computer in my house just like the phone company used to do.

If it ain't broke, take it apart & see why not!

Reply to RCPilot
RCPilot   02-21-2003 at 01:45:03 AM
- 0 +

This will probably not be a choice! For me it's not. I run that way now, not in the future, NOW!

If it ain't broke, take it apart & see why not!

Reply to RCPilot
Kemche   02-21-2003 at 02:11:22 AM
- 0 +

If you are going to boycott Prescott, you must also boycott Hammer, it's also going to have similar technology implemted for security. I guess we will have to live with our Current P4s and Hammers. Anyways, it's not as scary as you think.

This is my take. What if you are doing some online banking and you don't want anyone to know what you are typing as your password etc. What your browser should be able secure the platform to make sure all the keyboard entries goes to appropriate location and not to any spy sofeware which is trapping your keyboard entries.

This would be a great usage of Palladium.

I do agree with most of you out there about we should be able to rip music and other contents, but there are always pros and cons of everything. I guess we will have to live with it.

KG

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." - Sarah Chambers

Reply to Kemche
RCPilot   02-21-2003 at 02:15:45 AM
- 0 +

Quote :

I guess we will have to live with it.


Maybe, maybe not, who knows? A lot can happen that's for sure.

If it ain't broke, take it apart & see why not!

Reply to RCPilot
dhlucke   02-21-2003 at 02:24:19 AM
- 0 +

Are you saying that we need to have Palladium because of spyware? Wouldn't it be better to STOP the spyware?

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">If you were to have sex with your clone would that be considered incest or masturbation?</A></font color=red>

Reply to dhlucke
Anonymous   02-21-2003 at 03:05:32 AM
- 0 +

I join in your boycott, and I thank you for bringing this dastardly deed to my attention.

-I'm not stupid, I'm just big-boned!-

Reply to Anonymous
imgod2u   02-21-2003 at 03:28:30 AM
- 0 +

I'm not sure where this spyware idea came about. Palladium is an extra set of API calls for software to communicate with each other. Nothing in it specifically calls for accessing your system information. If anything, it makes it harder for software to do just that because it puts greater restrictions on software communicating with one another. The only problem I see is for those of us who go through certain means to, let's just say circumvent, certain liscensing enforcements such as Windows XP Activation. It won't be an easy task anymore. Not with software utilizing Palladium.

"We are Microsoft, resistance is futile." - Bill Gates, 2015.

Reply to imgod2u
Flipphone   02-21-2003 at 04:24:21 AM
- 0 +

umm i'm thing some of u read something from a website and now ur acting all like gov will be spying on u. well lmao think again unless u do kid porn or sell secrets to terrorist then dont worry. its all good if we cant find osma bin laden then they wont find them stolen songs we have lol. just portect my newsgroups since noone in gov knows anything about them lmao.

Reply to Flipphone
Crashman   02-21-2003 at 07:20:35 AM
- 0 +

LOL, best case scenario, computer geek walks up to joe office worker and tells him about conspiracy and the Prescott P4. Joe walks into Office Depot a month later and sees "Prescott P4". Joe says "Hey, I've heard of these, they must be good!" and buys without remembering exactly what it was computer geek told him.

You know how many Packard Bells actually SOLD on bad publicity before everyone realized that they were junk?

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>

Reply to Crashman
scamtrOn   02-21-2003 at 08:52:11 AM
- 0 +

roflmao

i have always hated intel, but this changes every thing... i WILL buy this new cpu and love it. this sounds like what we need. people do so much wrong and this can help. intel and ms are the best things that ever happened to the copmuter world. so like i said, i WILL buy this cpu and do away with my illegal software (every single software i have).

<font color=orange><b>as you get older, your hard drive becomes floppy, but don't fear viagra is here. viagra puts the hard back in your drive!!!

Reply to scamtrOn
skligmund   02-21-2003 at 09:12:19 AM
- 0 +

Just one thing:

Read 1984.

It is a good book, and you won't believe how close to it we are.

As for our government, we are slipping faster and faster into a more socialist country.

But for now, I carry a concealed weapon at all times, without permit. It is my constitutional RIGHT. Gun laws are bs.

So this is the same with this bs. Is macintosh doing this also? If not, I may have to go to the dark side, or spend time and money sueing the crap out of any company that infringes on my rights as an american citizen.

My Duron 1300 eats P4's for dinner. Oh, the Celerons make a nice snack too.

Reply to skligmund
scamtrOn   02-21-2003 at 09:27:20 AM
- 0 +

no i never even heard of that book (i don't even read)

<font color=orange><b>as you get older, your hard drive becomes floppy, but don't fear viagra is here. viagra puts the hard back in your drive!!!

Reply to scamtrOn
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