AMD Athlon XP Standard Cooler

[Michiel]

Hi,

I've just bought an AMD Athlon 2000+ (with ASUS A7V266-C). However, the temperatures (even with the case open) seem rather high. I've been looking, and my temperatures are still under the maximum of 90 degrees Celcius, but they are high. I've read something about my motherboard not reading the temperatures right, but I'm not sure about that.

I would like to know if the cooler that comes with the Athlon XP should be sufficient. A friend of mine bought the exact same processor the same day as me, but with a Coolermaster cooler. His processor is way cooler then mine (or at least, his utility shows so).

My temperatures go from 58C idle to about 77C when fully operating (100% cpu usage). Is this bad? I mean, even with the case open it's just very hot. I've been looking around and alot of people seem to think 77 degrees is way to high; most people are running it at 40 to 50 degrees.

I would like to know if it would help buying a better cooler, because the AMD cooler isn't sufficient enough. I thought it should be, but I don't know if temperatures between 60 to 80 Celcius are ok...

(BTW: It's not an overclocked processor nor am I interested in overclocking it. That why I think the cooler delivered with it should do the job.)

Thanks!

 

[MadCarrot]

If you're using the stock fan/cooler that came with the processor, then it's only just adequate for the job. Stock heatsinks are usually made from aluminium, not renown for their thermal conductivity. It's also probably got a heat transfer pad, again not the best.

What you need to get is a copper heatsink with an 80mm fan, then use a thermal transfer compound (Arctic Silver III) instead of the pad. Have a look at the GlobalWin CAK4-88T for example.

This should bring your temperatures down significantly.


MC

 

[rcj187]

if its working without ant stability issues then guess what.. its NOT too hot! stock hsf are good enough.. if they werent they wouldnt be supplied. yes copper is better and yes arctic silver is better than bubblegum but if you are running at stock then the stock hsf is GOOD ENOUGH!


I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

 

[Teq]

The stock cooler that comes with the retail AMD processors is <b>adequate</b> to protect the CPU from burning itself up. Beyond that they get no bonus marks.

The temperatures you cite are within the chip's safety range, but you can do one heck of a lot better with an aftermarket cooler, which will enhance the stability of your system and reduce heat stress on nearby components, including the CPU socket.

For an XP2000 (and above) I generally use an aftermarket cooler with a copper bottom and aluminum fins. The reasons for this are complex having to do with the way the various metals absorbe and radiate heat, but it's an excellent combination.

The ones I use most are here:
<A HREF="http://www.spirecooler.com/asp/fcc.asp?ProdID=95" target="_new">http://www.spirecooler.com/asp/fcc.asp?ProdID=95</A>
and I've had good suceess with these:
<A HREF="http://www.thermaltake.com/products/heatsink/v7.htm" target="_new">http://www.thermaltake.com/products/heatsink/v7.htm</A>

Any heatsink and fan with similar construction will do a fine job of keeping things cool. You can expect temperatures in the mid-40c range at idle and the low 50s under load.

One more tip: I don't use the stock thermal stuff applied to these heat sinks, I clean them off and use thermal grease instead. There are several brands of thermal grease out there. Arctic Silver is very popular, the stuff I use comes from Radio Shack, there are several others. No matter what brand you pick it will perform better than those silly rubber pads AMD supplies.

The application instructions for thermal grease are here:
<A HREF="http://www.thermaltake.com/products/heatsink/v7.htm" target="_new">http://www.thermaltake.com/products/heatsink/v7.htm</A>
(The same method is used no matter what grease you use)

Hope this helps...




<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[rcj187]

the guy doesnt need to spend more money on an aftermarket cooler. if his system is stable then a fancy cooler wont make it more stable. ill say it again.. if your system is stable then it doesnt matter what your temps are. all you guys are doing is worrying this guy and making him think that the stock cooler aint good enough when it is. if it aint broke, dont try and fix it

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

 

[speeduk]

77c at full load even with stock cooler is a very bad temp, i remember when i got my 1700xp with stock cooler it went up to about 60 with no other cooling, but the heat inside the case was terrible leading to instability so i got a descent cooler and now i can run it at 2000 rating and keep it under 60c. Although some people will tell you the temp you get is ok, the heat inside the case keeps building up until you get errors and other nasty things, my advice is to get a fan to extract some of that harmful heat if running with case cover on or just keep the cover off.

 

[Teq]

I've heard this "if it came with the chip, it must be the right thing" argument many times before... I've also seen AMD chips fail at temperatures well under their rated 90c.

Temperature does matter... not only does the higher operating temperature put more stress on the circuitry of the CPU, it puts more stress on components near and under the cpu. It also leads to more rapid deterioration of the plastic in the ZIF socket. In some cases reducing the useable lifetime of a motherboard by several years.

I have about 200 computers under my care. About 3/4 of these are Celeron and Pentium systems. Until I started installing aftermarket coolers on AMD boxes as a matter of course, I spent about 2/3 of my time working on the AMD systems. Knocking that extra 20 degrees off the CPU temps has substantially increased the reliability of these computers and the number of service calls I do on them has dropped off sharply... it's now almost in the expected 75/25 proportion for my customer base.

Cooler is <b>always</b> better.


<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[Teq]

You make an interesting argument for case cooling here...

When you cool the CPU that heat has to go someplace. With the stock cooler a lot of it will be hanging around the CPU which, as I just explained in another message, is a bad thing.

But, even with a super duper aftermarket cooler, that heat is still inside the case, it's dispersed resulting in lower temperatures, but it does have to go someplace. So I always install at least one case fan, and lately I've been expanding the case's air intakes to provide better entry paths for cool air as well.





<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[speeduk]

I agree, even a cheap exhaust fan in an empty pci slot (amr slot preferably) knocks about 5-10 degrees off the cpu temperature if placed properly and keeps the case cool too. Even the psu can help here, i have one with 2 fans, one that takes the air from inside the case and another that blows it out the back!

 

[edwardz]

I agree with rcj187. He doesn't need a new fan. It will keep the tempature lower but also increase noise level. Since he is gonna do normal tasks and no overclocking, he absolutly doesn't need a new fan. I've been working with Athlon CPUs alot and I had 2100+ on an MSI KT3 Ultra mobo. It was fine idle (65 C.) but when i was playing UT2k3, it would crash because of the temperturea being too high(76 C.) ( I put a sensor under the CPU for accurate readings). So i bought a Thermaltake Volcano 7 to cool it. That fan was just too loud but kept my CPU at ~50 C. idle. So i went and got better compound(Artic Silver 3) and replaced the fan provided by AMD. That way the exact reading right now is... ah 55 C. using Media Player and no noise. The case temperture is 25 C.

Yes, heat is important but noise is also.

I think he should try this recepie: same cooler with better compound.

God is more important than the difference between nForce2 and Granite Bay

 

[Michiel]

Thanks to everyone who replied! From every post I do get the sense that my processor won't just die on me, but it could be alot cooler. I think I will just buy a better cooler (they're not that expensive) to get the temperature down.

Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[hellodeadcat]

I have a dual non-OC (for now mwahahahaha) 2400MP setup and my processors hardly ever get above 50C. I too use the stock hsf for now. Along with following the very good advice with the case cooling, add a Zalman bracket to the PCI mounting screws and stick a 92 or 120mm fan on it blowing at your board and processors. I use this and it works great. This is a good way directly cool your processor(s) and board without voiding your warranty or potentially damaging your board and cpu from a bad hsf mounting. Keeping the room cool helps a lot too. Zalman fan mouting brackets usually cost about 7-11 dollars US and take about 2 minutes to install. If your case fans now have finger gaurds on them, take those off to improve airflow. A standard 80mm case fan will not take your finger off if something possesses you to stick it in there while it is operating. I added a themaltake brand smart case fan 2 to the one of the back fan slots on my case. It sounds like a vacume cleaner when adjusted to full speed, but that is usually not needed so it is quiet. This fan comes with a temperature probe that you can probably reach to your hsf so it adjusts automatically if that is what you want. Keep in mind that high flow fans WILL take your finger off and can easily grind up a small house pet such as a cat if it gets sucked in, so use the finger blocker. It is better to have more fan power directed at blowing air out of your case than sucking it in. Replace your exhaust fan with a high power one and stick a fan on a bracket blowing across your board and cpu and you should be fine. There are better and more complicated solutions to cooling, but in my opinion this way is cheap and anybody can do it without worrying about breaking things inside the case.

 

[Teq]

Yep that would be the smart move.

As someone else has pointed out noise is an issue too... but not if the cost of quiet is higher temperatures. Better coolers often have high speed fans that can make an annoying sound... but that can be dealt with without sacrificing cooling. If you look in the overclocker's section for heat sinks and coolers you will find a number of really informative threads on dealing with fan noise (if that becomes an issue).



<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[jihiggs]

aluminum is VERY good at transfering heat. my swiftech forgot the model hsf is all alluminum and i dont think my temps could get much better. its the design and size that is inadequate.

my computer is so fast, it completes an endless loop in less than 4 seconds!

 

[rcj187]

aluminum is VERY good at transfering heat

aluminium is ok at transferring heat but copper is better. if you have identically designed hsf one copper and one aluminium then the copper will always be better.. copper has a lower thermal resistance and therefore conducts heat better. the faster the heat gets from the cpu to the heatsink the better.

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

 

[Teq]

Actually there are 2 issues here... Heat <b>absorbtion</b> and heat <b>retention</b>.

Copper does indeed absorbe heat far better than aluminum, but it also tends to retain heat better than aluminum.

Aluminum does not absorbe heat as well as copper but it also does not tend to retain heat the way copper does.

If you took two same sized slabs, one copper one aluminum and heated them... the copper would get up to temperature faster than the aluminum, the aluminum would cool faster than the copper because the aluminum doesn't retain heat. It's a function of mass.

This is why the hybrid coolers are such an excellent solution... use the copper as a heat spreader, capitalizing on it's better thermal absorbtion to take heat away from the relatively small contact area with the CPU. Use aluminum in conjunction with the larger contact area with the heat spreader to get the heat off the copper and into the air with maximum efficiency.



<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[hellodeadcat]

good point about the metals. One consideration with any hsf is how heavy it is. I say this because it may not be a good idea to have a heavy hsf on there if the machine is going to be doing some moving around like to LAN parties. Moving around a computer with a really heavy sink and fan carries the risk of it coming off or cracking the board. If you are just going to place it on your desk and let it sit there for years a big one should be fine, but do not get a very heavy one if you plan to run around with it.

 

[Teq]

Yep, weight is an important consideration. The most common cause of heat sink failures is the mounting tabs breaking off the sockets, a direct result of strain and jarring.





<b>(</b>It ain't better if it don't work.<b>)</b>

 

[tombance]

WOW! SO VERY HOT!! My Tbred B runs at 29/34 LOL! And thats overclocked too.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5467618 " target="_new">Almost Breaking 12k!!</A>

 

[Booky]

Not sure what HS comes with the 2000+ but I have a Barton 2500+ and run it with the stock HS. I get about 44C idle and 55C full load. So either your HS isn't applied the best it can or maybe you used the thermal pad instead of AS or some other grease? The stock should put you somewhere around 55C under load. This has been the case for every AMD chip I have used with the stock HS.

Crap, all the good ones are already taken.

 

[khha4113]

Make sure you installed the HSF <b>right</b> (HSF actually contacts good with the CPU's core). It shouldn't be ~58C at idle even for the stock fan.

Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.

 

[Teq]

Good point... if it's not sitting right, or on backwards things will get weird pretty fast...

However, I've seen 58 and 60 degree temperatures with AMD's stock coolers, especially on Palimino chips. Unless AMD has upgraded the coolers they're supplying in the last couple of months, those temperatures are completely believable.



---> <b>Press ALT-F4 for IQ test</b><---

 

[Michiel]

I just bought and installed a better cooler. It did have an affect. The processor is alot cooler then it was with the stock one. I am planning on buying another kind of case cooling, because the temp in my case is running a little high. But as for the processor: Thanks for all the advice, a better cooler did take some heat off!