xp1700+ on 13x mult confuses system

[hatimh]

Hi all,

I have an XP1700+ on ASUS A7N8X, 12.5 x and below works correctly however, as soon as I bump it up to 13 I can boot into windows and it's stable but it reports Athlon 666MHz.

Is the devil messing around with my new system?



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Don't extract the urine.

 

[Quetzacoatl]

Do you realize that for yout 1700+ to be at a 12.5 and 13 multiplier, you're overclocking it by several hundred Mhz??? Did you even unlock the Athlon you have? The Asus board is a relatively terrible unstable overclocker, it's likely you just have a buggy board

Instead of Rdram, why not just merge 4 Sdram channels...

 

[hatimh]

Being polite here, I couldn't disagree with you more! I have read around and there are people here which taken the 1700+ (1.46GHz) TBred b to speeds of 2.25 GHz and higher.

The 1700+ TBred b is a very good overclocker, I currently have mine running at 2004 MHz rock stable that is almost 600 MHz overclock.

The ASUS A7N8X is the best motherboard I have ever had. It is very good and stable, I guess the praise should just go to nVidia for the nForce2 chipset that is on it.

So firstly, I know it's several hundred MHz overclocked and it can go even more.
Secondly I don't even need to unlock it, it's factory unlocked (TBred b)
Thirdly my board is not buggy and it's very stable even with 600MHz overclock.

The problem I'm having is something to do with multiplier problem which requires me probably having to cut the 5th L3 bridge.

So I think my question is what modification needs to be made in order for me to successfully use the 13x multiplier setting, and could you describe the process or point to any articles on the webon this topic?

Thanks.

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Don't extract the urine.

 

[alpha_03]

heres the deal your athlon isnt a true 1700 mhz its really 1.47mhz so in doing the math find what num allows you to run at the 133/266 bus @1.47mhz. that num is 11 i.e. (11 x 133=1463mhz) thats default for that processor/bus config that you have. overclocking a board means that the num 11 (cpu multiplier) and 133 (frnt side bus) have to change to a reasonable amount (in a ratio that uses the same math up and/or down) before you run into errors that cause the machine to stop/lock-up/overheat. just remember with most mobo's when the frnt bus side is rasied so to goes the rest of the system. with all that said i havent even begun to touch on the real parts of it all. voltages too become an issue. athlons wont take to much time to fry so be carefull. esp. in a new system. "burn" the system in at stock settings and get every thing installed and working for a few days. then if you still want to o/c your system ...well its your machine. personally i dont advise one to do it unless you have a good understanding of how it all works. no offence ment.

 

[alpha_03]

lol opps i should of waited to post that reply the "L- bridge" you refer to is part of unlocking an amd processor. and I know of no processor that will over clock by 600 mhz w/o some very very serious cooling mods. as for rock stable? run a bench test for 12 hrs using some modern benchmarks and youll be buying a new cpu.

 

[hatimh]

What does my signature say? Damn! What is up with you guys?? I'm no rookie, I've been overclocking for years! Why are you telling me this basic sh*t. I know you're trying to help and no offence is intended, but I think you guys need to read this post. Then you'll understand that this problem is more complicated than you think.

The main post is the long one near the end by 'phsstpok'.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=129424#129424

Read and understand.

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Don't extract the urine.

 

[hatimh]

Sorry what I meant was there's a post by 'MeTaLrOcKeR' which refers to a post by 'phsstpok'.

Read that one to understand the power of the 1700+ TBred b

'phsstpok' wrote:

------------------------------------------------
This fact makes it important to choose your default multiplier wisely. I liked 15x because 15 x 133 is 2000 Mhz a decent overclock yet still within the capabilities of Tbred B 1700+. If you want to use a higher bus speed you'll want a lower default multiplier but remember you won't be able to change the multiplier from BIOS any longer so too low a multiplier may limit your overclock. 15 x 133 gives a good starting point, 2000 mhz (XP 2400+). Overclocking the bus from there lets you get into the typical Tbred B 1700+ overclock levels. 150 Mhz gets 2250 mhz. 160 mhz gets 2400 mhz which you probably can't get much higher with a 1700+.
------------------------------------------------

That's a 940 MHz overclock, I'm quite sure that's aircooled too.

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Don't extract the urine.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by hatimh on 03/11/03 09:48 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Delf]

hatimh, I had the same thing happen to my Athlon 1800+ B on the Asus A7N8X non-dlx. When I set the FSB at 166 mhz the problem vanished and I got my 1800+ to 2600+ speeds. I ran a few benchs and everything looked stable, no overheating. But since I didnt notice any performence increase in apps and games I set it back to 1800+...

Delf

 

[Lonemagi]

Try this post:

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=660538#660538" target="_new">http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=660538#660538</A>

--
"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace."
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy."
-George Washington

 

[hatimh]

This is the thing I can't understand,

bandwidth bottlenecks
keep fsb in sync with memory speed
etc
etc

You just mentioned that there was no performance difference from 1800+ to 2600+ What's the deal there???? Wierd.

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Don't extract the urine.

 

[Delf]

There was a difference, I got a few more points in 3dmark (yes I know it not a good cpu test but its the only I have right now)

But in games or when working with big files in Flash MX or Photoshop there was no difference (my GeForce ti4200 is probly my limiting factor for games) and since I am not overclocking just for the fun of it I set my cpu back to nomral settings...

As for you not understanding bandwidth bottlenecks and why you must keep the ram in sync with the bus I dont know the exact details...


Delf

 

[lwj81]

What fsb and kind of memory are you using?

 

[alpha_03]

dude dont dis-respect people in the forums that are trying to help you, with your attitude you'll get none. frustration is a bitch but take your time it's not a race. if you want help be more specific and more clear on what the actual problem is in your post. anyhoos, make sure the setting for fsb is correct ON THE MOTHERBOARD. this issue is addresed at the Asus fourms @the Asus website. Remember the math, multiplier settings vs YOUR memory speed setting vs YOUR cpu settings. Sometimes in all the rush certain things get missed, write down in order of the way you need to do what you want on paper and double check everything. and btw i want the addie to the guy thats overclocking a 1700xp by 600 with air, i want to know if his pc is still working. and if its truely stabil.

 

[alpha_03]

opps almost forgot- also remember as you lower fsb to support a
higher cpu multiplier you loose memory efficientcy (depending on the initial memory speed of the ram in use) ie the bottle neck that was previously mentioned.

 

[lwj81]

I'm running a 1700xp B core at a 771mhz overclock stabily on air.

 

[phsstpok]

I think I can answer your questions.

What's happening with the 13x multiplier?

Your board is simply ignoring the 8x multiplier bit which means it's interpreting the 13x as 13 - 8 or 5x and 5 x 133 = 666 mhz.

How can you use the higher multipliers?

Assuming you have a Tbred, you can cut the 5th L3 bridge. This will enable the 8x multiplier bit (Note: this is doing the opposite of the "U" trick). Your mobo will now interpret the higher multipliers. You will be able to select them in BIOS. No multiplier remappings on your board. The multipliers will work as they should.

You'll want to cut one or more additional L3 bridges because simply cutting the 5th L3 bridge will give your processor. Your L3 bridges look like this now C-C-C-C-C (C for closed, O for open). Cutting the 5th bridge would make it C-C-C-C-O which represent 4.5x or Undefined (depends on motherboard). The best choice would be to change the multiplier to 13x (L3 C-C-O-C-O). Hopefully your system can POST at 1733 Mhz at the default voltage of 1.6. If it does you can change the voltage in BIOS and change the multiplier. If it doesn't you would want to change the default voltage on the CPU, controlled by the L11 bridges (again, assumming you have a Tbred).

Simply stated, put an XP2000+ or lower into an A7N8x and you can only use multipliers 5x thru 12.5x.

Put in an XP2100+ or higher and you can use the higher mulipliers.

Originally it was ONLY the higher multipliers but I think a BIOS update enabled all the multipliers. (can someone confirm this?) You still need to have the 8x multiplier bit enabled on your CPU to get the higher multipliers to work.


<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>

 

[Grub]

Remember the math, multiplier settings vs YOUR memory speed setting vs YOUR cpu settings. Sometimes in all the rush certain things get missed, write down in order of the way you need to do what you want on paper and double check everything. and btw i want the addie to the guy thats overclocking a 1700xp by 600 with air, i want to know if his pc is still working. and if its truely stabil.

[sarcasm]Remember also to wipe your bum when necessary, beacause you probably don't know to do that either[/sarcasm]

Sheesh...the guy (hatimh) looks like he knows what he is doing. 600 MHz OC's on air cooling with the Tbredb 1700 are commonplace now. Take a look at the online databases. And yes....their PCs are still working.


The only way France is going in is if we tell them we've discovered truffles in Iraq. -Dennis Miller

 

[hatimh]

In response to lwj81, I am using 2 x crucial PC2100 256MB cl 2.5, they're running at 160 MHz (same as FSB) the timings are 5, 2, 2, cas2 on my A7N8X mobo. I've just noticed that when I increase the RAM voltage to 1.7 from 1.6 it's made it more stable.

alpha_03 I know my attitude might have been bad, but I think Grub understood my post. I just felt you were telling me the most basic things ever. I think you also misunderstood my post because you say you want the address of the guy with a 600MHz overclock well I was referring to myself. Anyway no hard feelings and I apologise if I upset you.

Stock speed for 1700+ 1460 MHz, my speed is 2004 MHz, ok so about 550 MHz overclock. Check this out: http://www.cpudatabase.com/CPUdb/ select CPU type T-Bred 1700 and press the 'Get the goods' button. You will see what amazing speeds have been reached with this chip considering default speed is 1.46 GHz. I went to a couple of shops and asked to see the serial number on the chip when I was sure it was a T-Bred b I bought it.

phsstpok, thanks for the explanation, even though don't know what you mean, what I need is a walkthrough with diagrams coz I don't even know where the L3 bridges are! You were saying about whether my machine would POST at 1733, my machine POSTS at higher speeds but of course that's with the FSP overclocked on 12.5 multiplier, but whether it would post on 15 mult (x 133) not sure, I guess the 15 mult would probably requirer a higher voltage.

Do you think there could be a bios update that would allow us to use the higher multipliers without unlocking the CPU?

Thanks all.


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Don't extract the urine.

 

[Twitch]

alpha: The 1700+ T-bred is renowned for its overclocking. If I bought a 1700+ today, I would be disappointed if I couldn't get a 600 mhz overclock on it with decent air cooling. A lot of people are well past 2.1 gig with this processor. It is factory unlocked and is way underrated by AMD.

<-----Insert witty sig line here.

 

[hatimh]

You mentioned: "You'll want to cut one or more additional L3 bridges "

I watched the THG athlon xp unlock video just now. It looked like they were joining bridges, am I right?

So you're saying I need to CUT bridges, how exactly does one go about doing this properly?

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Don't extract the urine.

 

[POPEGOLDX]

It amazing it took like 30 posts for you to get your answer... 13X is not possible on a 1700+ without changing the mult range. 13x on a 1700+ is like 5.5X or something.

12X is the highest u can go without changing the MULT RANGE with the L3 bridge.

for faster answers... check out http://www.webvelosix.com

its the ORGINAL TOMS HARDWARE FORUM .. that left when TOM dropped DELPHI and formed its own board.

 

[phsstpok]

As I mentioned, I was assumming you have a Tbred XP 1700+ for which modifying the L3 bridges gives you access to multipliers 13x-24x.

If you have a Palomino you are dealing with L3 and L4 bridges for default multiplier settings, plus the L10 bridge for enabling/disabling the 8x multiplier bit. (The two L10 bridges on Palomino have the same function as the single 5th L3 bridge on Tbred).

Tom's XP unlocking video concerns a completely different subject. It is for unlocking Palominos, by closing the L1 bridges.

Tbreds are already unlocked. No nead to touch the L1 bridges.

If you have a Palomino just disregard my previous post.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>

 

[hatimh]

Maybe my original post should have been:

I have a T-Bred 1700+ b. Anychance there might be somewhere with instructions and diagrams on how to unlock it?

Thanks.

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Don't extract the urine.

 

[skligmund]

<A HREF="http://www.ocinside.de/index_e.html" target="_new">http://www.ocinside.de/index_e.html</A>

Try this site, it is pretty usefull. The first selection is the T-Bred painting guide.

Water cooling is for the weak. Get liquid nitrogen.

 

[phsstpok]

Your processor is already unlocked and as such you can already select various multipliers in BIOS. However, you can only choose 5x-12.5x. To use the higher multipliers you need to mod your chip.

I thought I already explained this but what you need to do is cut the 5th L3 bridge. This will enable the higher multipliers in your BIOS.

To be sure you mod'd CPU will POST I suggest you also cut the 3rd L3 bridge. These two cuts will give your processor a new default multiplier, 13x. Your system will boot at 13 x 133 or 1733 mhz. When you are done mod'ing your L3 bridges they will look like this, C-C-O-C-O (C means bridge closed, O means open).

I used a razor blade to do the cutting (sorry no pictures). It is a bit tricky and takes a steady hand. It's also impossible to see if you actually cut through the trace but one good cut should do it. If it doesn't work right the first time try again but don't cut too deep.

I have not yet heard any stories of disasters. Still, there is a risk doing this procedure. I take no responsibility if you damage your processor. The choice is yours.

Since you have an A7n8X, once you do the mod you will then see and be able to use the higher multipliers.

Skligmund has aleady provided the Tbred painting link. There you can see what bridges need cutting (and painting) to change default multipliers and default voltage.

One last thing, you might need to change the default multiplier. 1.6 volt, the normal default for a Tbred B XP1700+, might not be enough for it to POST at 1733 Mhz. (It probably is enough but it might not be).

<b>EDIT</b>
Obviously, I meant "default voltage" and not "default multiplier" in the last paragraph.



<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 03/14/03 01:25 AM.</EM></FONT></P>