Poor Man's Super Computer

[Phluffsalot]

Hello, I am new to this website and have been gathering valuable data. Although wonderful, finding cheap stuff is hard since I had to go back to 2002 and sometimes even 2001 for my info. Ok, I have roughly 200 dollars, 150-250 I guess. My computer is fairly good, here are the current specs:

700 mhz athlon slot A
offbrand motherboard
384 (I think thats right) mb of pc 133 ram
Geforce 3 (one of the later ones and not mx)
Sound Blaster live
80gb hd, 60gb hd (ata 100) and 36 gb hd (ata 66)
32x cd burner
other crap that is not worth mentioning.

I was considering getting:

a7n8x deluxe motherboard (it just rocks, hehe)
1600+ processor (.15 micro according to a friend is the best choice)
512 (2 256 chips of 300 mhz ddr)
Heatsink and fan (I have not researched them, but I may overclock and want to be able to remain stable and safe)


This should be around $250

-Phluff
Please lend any input you may have, I thank you all in advance.

 

[skligmund]

Get the XP1700 T-Bred 'B'. If you don't overclock, it runs VERY cool. Even when you overclock it stays cool. The 1600 is a Palimino core (am I right?), which runs hot, the 1700 T-Bred (not Palimino) runs a .13 micron process.

But I would STRONGLY advise you to get a 1700 T-Bred, they sell for like 50 bucks on <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com" target="_new">http://www.newegg.com</A> or even less at <A HREF="http://www.ebay.com" target="_new">http://www.ebay.com</A>. If you don't want to go into too much trouble finding a T-Bred 'B', at least get one that has .13 micron. ONLY .13 micron.

Water cooling is for the weak. Get liquid nitrogen.

 

[Twitch]

Were you planning on using the integrated graphics and sound on the ASUS board? Or were you going to use your existing graphics and sound cards? Your graphics card is probably as good if not better than the on-board graphics on the ASUS (or any other nForce2 motherboard for that matter.) The on-board sound on the ASUS is better than Soundblaster Live! but the same holds true for any of the nForce2 motherboards with Soundstorm.

If you are on a budget, don't buy the ASUS. The A7N8X Deluxe is $150! You can get the full-featured MSI 6570G-020 for $130, and it has everything including just as good of performance. If you plan on using your GeForce 3 again, don't even bother with the "deluxe" boards, because you would be paying for onboard graphics you aren't gonna use. Buy the MSI K7N2-L for $95.

From the number of complaints I've read about the ASUS motherboard here, I've come to think it is either great, or horrible, depending on your luck. And virtually all the benchmarks I've seen say that ASUS is good, but MSI is just as good if not better in most benchmarks.

If you flash the BIOS, the A7N8X is a great board, but you are on a really tight budget. Why spend 65% of your allocated budget on a motherboard when you can spend 40% and get the same performance?



<-----Insert witty sig line here.

 

[Phluffsalot]

Well, I agree I am on a tight budget, but this way the motherboard will last me through another upgrade. I usually cycle through parts (this was originally a 486 packard bell, lol). In regards to sound, its better, and there is no on board video at all. Is the 1800 also .13 or just 1700? Also, all the posts I have read that had problems with the MB, they were people that forgot to pull off film from the heatsink and/or overclocked. I dont plan to overclock, at least at first.

 

[jwhytsel]

I own the A7N8X Deluxe. It is a great board. The Deluxe does not come with the onbaord graphics. (Why I don't know, you would think it would being the "Deluxe" model.) I've had no trouble with it whatsoever, despite my many attempts to do some serious (and sometimes even successfull) overclocking. All that being said, I have to agree with the reply above. The MSI board apparently gets as good as, if not better marks for less money. One of the big sellers of the boards is the NForce2 chipset with dual DDR.

The micron proccess is not model dependant, it's core dependant. 1800s come in Palamino and T-bred cores. Palaminos are .18 micron, T-breds are .13 micron.

1. Dual DDR is only an option for 400mhz (PC3200) memory.

2. If memory serves me correctly, there are some gains and losses dependant on wether or not you get the on-board graphics. (Hopefully some one else knows what i'm talking about and can elaborate.)

I wouldn't give up my ASUS for the wourld, but if on a budget, there are certainly less expensive, and just as capable alternatives.

Ignorance is bliss, and i'm a happy guy!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by jwhytsel on 03/18/03 00:47 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[scamtrOn]

hey dood


http://www.ableshopper.com/#13031609

<font color=orange><b>as you get older, your hard drive becomes floppy, but don't fear viagra is here. viagra puts the hard back in your drive!!!

 

[MeTaLrOcKeR]

To correct a few things for you...

The 1600+ is a Palomino Athlon XP..its not 0.15 Micron, its 0.18......

The 1700+ has 3 versions....the Palomino (0.18 Micron), the Thoroughbred 'A' (0.13 Micron) and the Thoroughbred 'B' (0.13 Micron)....the later being the best one....it runs the coolest and overclocks the best.....

as for the 1800+....yes, there are also 1800+'s that are 0.13 Micron.....heres a little chart for you...

AMD Athlon XP w/ Palomino Core (0.18 Micron):
1500+ (1.33GHz)
1600+ (1.4GHz)
1700+ (1.47GHz)
1800+ (1.53GHz)
1900+ (1.60GHz)
2000+ (1.67GHz)
2100+ (1.73GHz)

AMD Athlon XP w/ T-Bred 'A' Core (0.13 Micron):
1700+ (1.47GHz)
1800+ (1.53GHz)
1900+ (1.60GHz)
2000+ (1.67GHz)
2100+ (1.73GHz)
2200+ (1.80GHz)

AMD Athlon XP w/ T-Bred 'B' Core (0.13 Micron):
1700+ (1.47GHz)
1800+ (1.53GHz)
1900+ (1.60GHz)
2000+ (1.67GHz)
2100+ (1.73GHz)
2200+ (1.80GHz)
2400+ (2.0GHz)
2600+ (2.13GHz) 133MHz FSB
2600+ (2.08GHz) 166MHz FSB
2700+ (2.15GHz) 166MHz FSB
2800+ (2.25GHz) 166MHz FSB

AMD Athlon XP w/ Barton Core (0.13 Micron):
2500+ (1.83GHz)
2800+ (2.08GHz)
3000+ (2.17GHz)

As far as overclocking goes...for the money...the 1700+ T-Bred 'B' CANNOT be beat....its the overclocking KING right now.....BUT if u want the FASTEST overall perforance for a great price, the 2500+ Barton cant be beat......

Now the A7N8X while a great board and loaded with features, there are better boards out.....overclocking is good on it, but is better on other boards...the ASUS nForce boards only use a dual plane voltage regulator where as the ABIT and EPOX i know of for sure have the tri-plane style voltage regulators...so ur bound to have a MUCH more stable overclock on one of those boards......ive heard good things about the MSI nForce 2 boards also.......but for the money, so far, id go for the Epox 8RDA+.......definently a GREAT board and one of the lowest priced nForce 2 platforms......

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597" target="_new">-MeTaL RoCkEr</A>

 

[Twitch]

I still think the price for the ASUS is not really justified, but that's just my opinion--your mileage may vary. However, if you buy a 1700+ T-bred B, I would almost say you're nuts if you don't overclock it. From what I've read, they all reach 2400+ speed without a problem, and quite a few of them are hitting 2800+ speed. In other words, AMD has WAY underclocked this processor because they needed something for their value line. They could easily sell the same processor as a 2400+ with no problems. In fact, it reaches 166 FSB easily, so you could even say it's an underclocked 2600+! It's a true hidden bargain. Even I ordered one to overclock--and I am not an overclocker. I figure even someone like me, who is not particularly risque' with his components, can achieve a worthwhile overclock with a 1700+.

If you want the absolute most powerful system for the absolute minimum amount of money, either steal a P4 3.06 HT, or buy an Athlon 1700+, an Epox 8RDA+ or Abit motherboard, and overclock the crap out of that processor. There is no better (legal) way to get a high-end system cheap at the moment.

<-----Insert witty sig line here.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Twitch on 03/18/03 01:35 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Phluffsalot]

I have a 500 watt power supply, will that help fix power problems?

 

[scamtrOn]

dood your psu has nothing to do with the motherboard voltage regulator.

<font color=orange><b>as you get older, your hard drive becomes floppy, but don't fear viagra is here. viagra puts the hard back in your drive!!!

 

[MeTaLrOcKeR]

No no...the PSU is different from the Motherboards voltage regualtors....

basically....the dual-plane voltage regualted boards dont give as "clean" or...."smooth" of power as the tri-plane would...liek..power spikes/voltage spikes wouldnt be as speratic and would give a much more stable OC....

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597" target="_new">-MeTaL RoCkEr</A>

 

[Phluffsalot]

the thing is that I am a hard drive freak. I want it big and I want it fast (no pun intended). So having serial ata is a nice addition, also that is a kickass sound system that would work great with what I have. It has firewire, 6usb, a lot of stuff I wouldnt mind having, it makes the deluxe offer the most for the money I believe. plus its capable of a lot which means I dont need to upgrade for another 2 years (which is about how long I have waited on this system if not longer).

 

[MeTaLrOcKeR]

Well obviously its really up to you.......i was just making a suggestion.........

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597" target="_new">-MeTaL RoCkEr</A>

 

[amdfan2100]

The asus A7N8x supports only 1.5v cards. Not sure whether your card would work with the mobo or not. I just ended up buying a gf4200. Why not just use your old Socket A processor for a while and get better ram or cooling. As far as cooling is concerned a volcano 7+ would fit the bill at 25$ and can cool up to a 2600+. Or maybe spend more and get a Volcano 11 for 45$ or a SLK-800 and a smartfan 2 for around 50$. Then you can put the fastest Socket A processor they end up making later down the road.

 

[Copenhagen]

My ASUS A7N8X Deluxe ended up performing quite well (<A HREF="http://icq277242841.subnet.dk/_1046109.html" target="_new">2.66GHz @ 213MHz FSB Dual Channel Sync</A>), even with my 300W Herolchi HEC power-supply, so I don't think ASUS's 2-phase voltage regulators is too bad in real life. Some of the newest version of A7N8X Deluxe even allows to change the chipset voltage through a special BIOS. But I agree that Epox 8RDA+ seems to be the best choice, if you're not prepared to do some mods.



<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i> - <A HREF="http://icq277242841.subnet.dk/_1046137.html" target="_new"> <b><font color=blue>My Rig </font color=blue></b> </A>

 

[Phluffsalot]

it runs stable at that massive overclock?

 

[Phluffsalot]

Ok, I think my questions were misleading. Here is the deal. I want to spend that much, but the more upgradable it is, the more I save in the long run since once I get another job, I upgrade again. So something like the deluxe can be used for even higher end stuff, like getting a nice 2600+ or something and overclocking. Are the other motherboard as upgradable and overclockable? I was getting the 1700+ because it shares the same core stuff as the 2200+ so I can overclock well.

 

[Copenhagen]

it runs stable at that massive overclock?

Yes, but only until the water gets too warm, due to the small <A HREF="http://sharkacomputers.com/ininsinsinfa.html" target="_new">120mm Innovatek InnovaRADI</A> single radiator.

The surface of the InnovaRADI single is too small for this kind of voltage and clock, so I'm getting ready to buy a <A HREF="http://www.vvs-eksperten.dk/acatalog/katalog_TRE_LAGS_204.html" target="_new">3-layer convector house-radiator</A> and outfit it with the necessary fittings and wall-mount it. I never move around with my PC anyway, and if it should be required one day, I can always refit my <A HREF="http://www.innovatek.de/sites/tankomatic.htm" target="_new"> Innovatek Tank-O-Matik</A>.

<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i> - <A HREF="http://icq277242841.subnet.dk/_1046137.html" target="_new"> <b><font color=blue>My Rig </font color=blue></b> </A>

 

[Phluffsalot]

very impressive, do you have aim or msn? I wanna chat with ya about some stuff, you seem to know what your doing and consider safety when overclocking, hehe.

 

[Copenhagen]

You can PM me, and I'll try to answer your questions.


<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i> - <A HREF="http://icq277242841.subnet.dk/_1046137.html" target="_new"> <b><font color=blue>My Rig </font color=blue></b> </A>

 

[johnoh]

That may be the most well balanced out of date system I've seen. That speaks well of you as a poor guy who knows what he is doing inside a case.

Looking at your components, I say screw everything except the mobo, cpu, and memory. Transfer over the rest.

So we're trying to spend $250 or less on those three items. Well that does not allow much room for a motherboard, so lets go with a cheap board and memory and hope it will be stable and spend the rest on the cpu.

How about a 1.93g athlon combo off pricewatch for $178. Then get whatever memory you want and you're still way under budget.

Overclocking is a slight possibility, but then your goal was performance for your dollar not fun for your dollar. Overclocking is fun, but the best benchmark scores per dollar are for those lucky few who buy the cheapest parts and find that they work.

<i>Reason the only absolute. Irrationality the only enemy. </i>

 

[Phluffsalot]

Well, I do quality over quanity. The idea is this. My computer finds it's bottlenecks and replaces them with parts that are roughly 6 months to 1 year old to save money. Doing this allows me to have a fairly good system. Going to raise the bottleneck to the next bottleneck is pointless the way I go. I would much rather raise it past the bar, in this case the motherboard exceeding every other piece of the computer. The processor will be the 1700+ (B) which is the same setup as the 2200+ and therefore a VERY good chip. It can be overclocked to 2 gighz if necessary according to many people. The motherboard is capable of a lot, including serial ata. This will allow for many upgrades. I then will get a single 256 or 512 chip and get its counterpart (for dual) afterwards. Then next would be the videocard again, then monitor, etc. That way I am always 1 year to 2 years behind but never more than that. I personally am at 700mhz which is really outdated and causing problems in games like warcraft 3, I have ram to spare, virtual memory to spare, only thing thats running at 100% is cpu. Anyhow, I think I am done with my decision, just looking for a good prices now, hehe. Thank you all and if anyone wants, an update will be posted once I get my parts and see whtas up. I also should get 50 bucks for my mb, proc, and ram I currently have, plus I will have a spare sblive which i can probably get 20 bucks for, that will be 70 dollars saved!!

 

[Twitch]

First of all, the ASUS is so expensive, I just assumed it must have on-board graphics. SO I stand corrected on that. ANYway...

I think the debate stems from this: The A7N8X Deluxe has the most features, but it is not any higher quality or any more likely to last longer than any of the other major-brand motherboards. You have a $250 budget. The ASUS is going to take $160 of that, after taxes. That leaves you with $90, which buys you your Athlon 1700+, but leaves you very little leftover for RAM unless you go really cheap. And keep in mind that you gotta have two sticks of RAM in order to see the full performance from an nForce2 motherboard. That's why people are recommending $100 motherboards like the Epox or MSI. You will get just as good of performance from these board, and you will have enough money left over to buy some decent-quality RAM that is good enough to let you overclock that 1700+ to its REAL performance levels. You won't sacrafice quality, but you will lose a few features that come on the ASUS--like Soundstorm onboard audio and Firewire. Of course, you could buy a better PCI sound card and an add-on Firewire card later. It's up to you, but it seems like you are giving ASUS way too much credit compared to the other guys. ASUS is a Cadillac Escalade. Now, is the Escalade any better than a GMC Yukon Deluxe? Nope. They're the same exact SUV, only the Cadillac has better paint and some fancy ornaments--and costs a LOT more.

<-----Insert witty sig line here.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Twitch on 03/19/03 02:56 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Phluffsalot]

Ok, after careful consideration and a lot of research I have changed my mind. I need to know something though, are all 2000+ xps thoroughbred Bs or are there As as well? Also is there a way to tell which box I am getting (since they dont have the DUT, DLT indicators)

 

[Phluffsalot]

To save time, here is the model # listed. AXDA2000BOX (it is a fan/heatsink included box). It is 83 dollars which seems pretty good for a xp 2000 with heatsink fan (since I dont plan on overclocking right now, that fan should suffice)