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Help-time to upgrade PC w/new chip and board?

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March 21, 2003 2:11:13 AM

Hi:
Please help. I have a mid tower, with Soyo motherboard and PIII 600 MHZ. I have noticed games dont wanna run, so I think i will upgrade. Running XP for home

I like my peripherals, so I dont want to buy a whole new PC, so thought I would just upgrade.

I would like to spend about $300, but not sure if that is realistic.

I am not looking for the fastest, but not slowest. I guess I want to find something fast for a good deal.

Could people suggest a good Intel Pentium 4 processor (non-celeron I think) and motherboard. I guess I will need a new power supply too? Also, RAM?

I wonder if any online store will sell a case, powersupply, motherboard, and processor already installed? And then I could just pull out my components into the new box?

Thx.
March 21, 2003 6:52:36 AM

is there any particular reason you are asking for a P4recommendation? im asking because in the mid range computers amd systems are cheaper than intel ones. also if you are playin games agraphics card upgrade may be a better choice than a complete overhaul.. what are your system specs at the moment?

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.
March 21, 2003 10:26:50 AM

I figured P4 is the current technology, cost depends just on how fast you wanna get? I was thinking maybe around a 1.8 gig p4 or something. A processor that is current technology, but not the latest and greatest cause I will pay a premium for that.

My video card is a ATI AIW Radeon 7500, which should be good for games (not BEST, but good).

rest of system is a soyo motherboard, 512megs ram, 600mhz PIII, ATI card, soundblaster video card.

I think it is time to upgrade processor, just not sure best route. dont want to spend too much.
Related resources
March 21, 2003 10:58:31 AM

how much money are you looking to spend.. my advice is to get for the best motherboard available at the time that gives you the best upgrade route for later on. this is important as it means that you can upgrade the cpu later.. or go to serial ata.. or faster ram without the expense of changing the motherboard. personally i would go with a tbred 'B' athlonxp 1800+ (very cheap good performer also oc very well) an nforce2 motherboard and a couple of sticks of good DDR333 ram. that lot wont cost any more than £200 (£ not $) if you are american your prices are generall cheaper so it will be even less for you. that will give you a solid upgrade path 4 at least 2 years

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by rcj187 on 03/21/03 02:59 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 21, 2003 11:11:22 AM

If you are on a tight budget then low to mid range AMD is the only option. I think what rcj187 said sounds about right. An Athlon T-Bred 1800 (Though for the price of the 1.8 P4 you can get a lot faster Athlon) I would recommend a Epox 8RDA+ (Next best thingk to Asus A7N8X but much cheaper) for motherboard and an Athlon 2100 T-Bred B for the CPU and 2 x Samsung DDR333 256Meg DIMM`s for memory. Thats my suggestion.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
March 21, 2003 1:47:47 PM

thanks for the comments.
I guess I am interested in spending around $300-400 for CPU, board, power supply (i guess I need new one cause mine is not for P4), and heat sinks.

I DONT want to start a Intel/AMD debate, but my brother in law has AMD and told me he would never get AMD again. So I have decided to stick with Intel, even if costs little extra.

What do you guys think about these "barebone" systems, the company puts all the parts together (CPU, board, fans, power supply) into a case and tests it. Then I would just put my hard drives, video/sound cards in, and add memory.

Here is one, what you think?
http://www.accubyte.com/applications/search/itemdetails...

I will do a cost total on this, but what would your guess be on the premium paid to have it somewhat put together like this, as opposed to buying all parts separate and doing myself (which I dont know how to do really). I would be comfortable paying a $50-75 buck premium if all i had to do was plug my existing crap in there, install new memory, and turn that bad boy on.


thanks again.
March 21, 2003 2:08:40 PM

Well for 300-400 you can get a p4 1.6 system or an AMD 2400+ system.... your making a stupid choice going with Intel.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5467618 " target="_new">Almost Breaking 12k!!</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by tombance on 03/21/03 04:09 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 22, 2003 3:46:45 AM

If you're looking for the most value/performance for your dollar go AMD. Intel is the King of performance right now (undisputed) but in the CPU range you're looking at AMD is the only solution. Unless you don't mind having a slower system that will not be any stabler or more reliable.

Your brother-in-laws problems probably have nothing to do with AMD.

The aim of military training is not just to prepare men for battle, but to make them long for it. <A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=32..." target="_new"><b>MY SYSTEM</b></A>
March 22, 2003 5:18:12 AM

well, there is something to be said for intel running cooler, and for the fact that it shuts off when its too hot, as opposed to AMD which make bacon out of your chip

but, with proper cooling and a bit of thermal paste, AMD are an excellent option, however if you want a longterm upgrade path, waith for the new canterwood? intel boards, and then put a lower end p4 into one of them, itll be pretty fast, and very upgradeable,

and make sure you buy a good power supply, enermax and antec make excellent ps
March 22, 2003 7:15:13 AM

AMD Chips shutoff now as well. So that is not a problem any more. And the new T-Bred B`s are cooler than an equilivent intel chip.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
March 22, 2003 7:24:37 AM

A properly setup AMD system (Like the type we have shown) is just as stable as an equilivent intel if not more so against some intel configurations. As the others have said you would be stupid to go intel for what you want to spend. As someone said you can have a 1.6 P4 or a 2400 Athlon for the same price. And also your bare bonses sytem there is garbage. It is an old willy core P4 for gods sakes. The suckiest P4 there is. The case and PSU look questionable too. If you get that one you will barely notice any difference from your current system. And you WILL NOT be able to upgrade it. You will not have any upgrade path except to a 2.0 P4 and thats it. I say agin you would be stupid to go intel for what you are planning to pay. There is nothing wrong with a properly configured Athlon. I have had 3 personal ones in the past 3 years and each one has always been 100% stable for me and have never ever caused any problems for me.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
March 22, 2003 12:45:44 PM

Thanks for all your HELP.
I just bought last night.
First, I did not buy an AMD even though at least one of you basically called me stupid for not buying AMD. I wanted Intel and that is what I got.

I priced a "Barebones" system at a major retailer against a Dell Dimension (with a bunch of discounts) and they came within $5 of each other. So I happily jumped on the Dell. I use Dell at work and they rock!!!

Here is what I got for $445 shipped (free shipping, tax included, after discounts). Got a 2.5 P4/533 MHZ. I will upgrade the memory when I see a great COMPUSA rebate, etc. They always come around if you are patient.

Order detail - order placed 3/21/2003 9:32:20 PM

Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.53GHz with 533MHz system bus/ 512K L2 Cache Qty: 1 Unit Price: 599.00
Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices 3.5 in Floppy Drive
Mouse Dell® 2-button scroll mouse
Sound Card Integrated Audio
Security Software Dell SecurityCenter by McAfee, 90-day introductory offer
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options 1 Year Limited Warranty plus 1 Year On-site Service
Software Bundles WordPerfect® Productivity Pack with Quicken New User Edition
Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Memory 128MB DDR SDRAM at 333MHz
Monitors No Monitor
Keyboard Dell® Quietkey® Keyboard
Digital Music Dell Jukebox powered by MUSICMATCH
Speakers No Speaker Option
Hard Drive FREE UPGRADE! 60GB Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive
Network Interface Integrated Intel® PRO 10/100 Ethernet
CD or DVD Drive 48x Max CD-ROM Drive
Digital Photography Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard
Modem No Modem Requested
Mail-In Rebate Offer $100 Mail in Rebate (double memory promo not valid!)
Video Cards 32MB ATI® Rage" Ultra Graphics Card
Internet Access Service No ISP Requested
Sub-Total $599.00

Discount -$77.45

Shipping $0.00

Tax $23.47

Total Price $545.02
-minus 100 rebate is 445.02 Mail-In Rebate Offer $100 Mail in Rebate (double memory promo not valid!)
March 22, 2003 1:03:59 PM

Well I will call you doubly stupid as well. You are stupid stupid stupid. First you got an overexpensive P4 with SINGLE CHANNEL DDR and only 128meg of DDR ram at that which will give you equal performance to about an Athlon 1800 because single channel DDR and P4 dont mix. And second you got a dell. No offecne but I feel no regrets at labeling you very very stupid. I dont know why people ask questions on this forum then go and ignore any advice given. People like you are just a waste of bandwidth. And yes everything I have written here is meant to be taken as an insult and yes I am irate. I needed an outlet and you were very convienent.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
March 23, 2003 1:36:12 AM

LOL! You are pathetic. I don't mind at all your insults if that is what you call them cause I am really happy I bought from Dell. Your negativity just shows you are probably a very unhappy loser, too bad. I on the other hand am excited and can't wait to get my new computer. I have Dells for years and they are excellent computers. I guess I could have followed your moronic advice and gotten an inferior AMD chip that on paper is faster, but one day you and everyone else will realize there is a reason AMD costs less than Intel. Until that day, you can keep thinking your AMD is faster and better and cheaper, while I enjoy my brand new system. I will be having fun soon, you will keep feeling sorry for yourself and wondering how you can lose that extra 250 pounds you have gained over the years sitting on your fat ass studying computer speeds.
March 23, 2003 6:58:23 AM

If dells are so great why does basicaly EVERYONE on this forum with ANY computer knowledge worth mentioning strongly suggest NOT getting a Dell. The point is you clearly dont have a clue about CPU speeds and about computers in general so I will show you. http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021218/vgacharts-... Those benchmarks are done on single channel DDR Ram just like your dell POS is single channel DDR and you can see how even the P4 3.06 loses to just the Athlon 2700 let alone a p4 2.4 against an Athlon 2400. The Athlon 2400 is not only WAY faster than your system is on paper it is also way faster in real life. The reason AMD is cheaper than intel is because they are not as known as intel is. intel is a household name is AMD a household name? It doesnt matter that AMD have a far superiour product it matters that intel is a known brand and AMD is not. Anyway as I said you still are stupid for going dell. Even if you had to go for intel you should not have gone dell. And BTW I was not the only person that called you stupid. But next time dont even bother wasting peoples bandwidth on this forum. People have better things to do that give advice and then have it ignored by n00bs like you. And I had stated that I was a bit irate before hand and you were a convenient outlet. Though I still think you are stupid.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
March 23, 2003 7:12:00 AM

Well, I could have suggested a nice P4 system for you, but it looks like you got Delled again. You said you wanted to play games...you won't on that video card. The good news is that it looks like this particular Dell actually has an AGP slot (many don't), so as soon as you figure out how much that 4 year old video card they put in there really sux, you can upgrade to a decent one.

Many Dell customers aren't so lucky, getting onboard video and no AGP slot. So at least you have one thing going for you.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
March 23, 2003 8:14:49 AM

ok im not saying you are stupid at all.. misinformed maybe.. ignorant perhaps. you came here asking for advice for a gaming system. you were given advice completely ignored it and went for what is really a poor system. its only selling point is the processor. everything else is crap. 128mb ram??? not enough in todays world. ati rage???? for gaming?? any1 else see anything wrong with that? dell hacve basically sold you a processor. they have cut corners on EVERYTHING else in order to make it look cheap. for a start you dont have a monitor with that. if you already have 1 then good otherwise add about $150 for a newe one. no speakers? $50.
here is what i would have reccomended for you..
amd xp2000+ tbred 'b' core £60 (im british dont know $ price)
2*256MB pc2700 ddr £60
asus a7n8x deluxe $100
128mb radeon 9500pro £75
60gb seagate barracuda iv hdd £80
52x cdrom £15
integrated dolby 5.1 sound
2*integrated network controllers
SATA raid

now that comes to under £400 ($626) but bear in mind that we pay more in britain than yo americans so you could probably build the same for cheaper. this system will blow your Dell away.

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.
March 23, 2003 8:15:18 AM

ok im not saying you are stupid at all.. misinformed maybe.. ignorant perhaps. you came here asking for advice for a gaming system. you were given advice completely ignored it and went for what is really a poor system. its only selling point is the processor. everything else is crap. 128mb ram??? not enough in todays world. ati rage???? for gaming?? any1 else see anything wrong with that? dell hacve basically sold you a processor. they have cut corners on EVERYTHING else in order to make it look cheap. for a start you dont have a monitor with that. if you already have 1 then good otherwise add about $150 for a newe one. no speakers? $50.
here is what i would have reccomended for you..
amd xp2000+ tbred 'b' core £60 (im british dont know $ price)
2*256MB pc2700 ddr £60
asus a7n8x deluxe £100
128mb radeon 9500pro £75
60gb seagate barracuda iv hdd £80
52x cdrom £15
integrated dolby 5.1 sound
2*integrated network controllers
SATA raid

now that comes to under £400 ($626) but bear in mind that we pay more in britain than yo americans so you could probably build the same for cheaper. this system will blow your Dell away.

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.
March 23, 2003 8:16:47 AM

woohoo! my first double post!!

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.
March 23, 2003 1:59:39 PM

to hokey_days: you sound foolish - I reccommend doing at least a bit of research before talking about what processor is better than this or that other one. I'd think you would find that each processor has strengths and weaknesses and that for the midrange price you can get a better amd system. Both companies make the highest quality chips IMO.

To everyone else: does anyone know what motherboards go into the Dell systems? Do they tend to use one brand and what chipset would be going into our friend's Dell that he just so gleefully bought?

"Don't question it!!!" - Err
March 23, 2003 4:29:10 PM

You are a loser, so what are we supposed to realise about AMD chips in the future. Just because theyre cheaper doesnt mean theyre lower quality - it means Intel take advantage of retards like you who think that the world is ruled by Intel and who are preparted to spend MASSIVE amounts of money in order to please their 'god'. AMD chips may run hotter, but thats only because the p4 is the equivalent of a lazy fat-arse who cant be bothered to do anything whilst the AMD is an athlete who can do a lot more, with less food (sorry for the lame comparison... but still). Dell is an example of another company out to 'catch the suckers' They build low specification systems that are marketed around one key component - in your case a processor. Since most dumbass comp buyers dont realise that inside their box is more than one chip (seriously - someone thought because they had bought an Intel processor that everything inside their case was part of the processor, and thus intel made it all) they fall for this.

One last thing - purposely ignoring the reccomendations that you asked for isnt going to make you popular here - Start taking notice or atleast justify your choices rather than 'My brother thinks AMD is no good'. Your brother who works in law may know a lot about law, but law has nothing to do with computers, thus he is about as knowing about computers as my 96 yr old grandmother! For some reason I think the fact that most people here come on this forum because theyre interested in computers suggests that they may know more than your 'brother in law'.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5467618 " target="_new">Almost Breaking 12k!!</A>
March 23, 2003 5:55:14 PM

Whats wrong with your brother in laws AMD CPU? I've been running my for the past 3 years with not one problem. 500 Mhz Athlon.
March 23, 2003 6:23:15 PM

Frankly, I find you somewhat rude and likely came in here looking for a fight since you already had your mind made up.

First, I happen to be a fairly strong Dell supporter, also a home PC builder, Xeon server deployer, AND also an AMD supporter. I've also deployed about a half dozen Dell desktops in the price and CPU class you just paid in the past few weeks, and consider them basically a rip off unless you are DESPERATE for a new PC. All of my AMD rigs in the XP2000-2400 range seriously 'mop the floor' with the lower end integrated Dell junk in terms of both speed and reliability. Your Dell will have a low end 200-300 watt power supply with integrated everything on the MB and come loaded with enough spyware and every single ISP install package pre-loaded known to man on XP. For $450 you could of DIY'd a much better system in the Athlon range I just mentioned and had a better machine.

I have no issue with the P2.4 and faster CPUs because they are great chips, and we all know P4s in the sub 2ghz category can't even match a higher end P3 Tualatins. I also give Dell credit for building great midrange servers and higher end workstations right now.

The problem though is all the low end crap hardware surrounding your P4 2.53 makes me feel sorry for you and the money you just wasted. That's what we are trying to tell you.
March 23, 2003 7:23:04 PM

tombance: I think that guy meant his brother in law, not brother who works IN law...LOL honest mistake..

For that newbie, dude you just got your ass reamed by DELL...LOL, DL PCMark and tell us what your scores are...
March 23, 2003 7:23:42 PM

well, my friend, ur comments remind me of the good old maxim - "Intel® inside....idiot outside."
March 24, 2003 1:14:32 AM

Guys do you think the new interns at Dell made his computer?
March 24, 2003 1:46:50 AM

What do you mean by "new" interns? They are ALL just interns at dell. I would guess you have read some of the technical support horror stories people have about dell so you would know what I mean by that. :-)
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
March 24, 2003 1:54:56 AM

Here is how good dells are. Theses sort of stuff ups seems to be typical not just a single incident.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...

Now if dell cant get something as simple as that right I shudder to think what else that they can do wrong with some of the more complicated stuff.
AREA_51

'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
March 24, 2003 2:03:22 PM

ROFL :smile: Your right hehe, I was a bit angry at that time, I had just had a close encounter with the next door neighbour's cat. Lol, thanks for pointing that out!

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5467618 " target="_new">Almost Breaking 12k!!</A>
March 25, 2003 1:39:40 PM

Ok, to those dikheads that called me stupid and ignorant, i have come to my senses and canceled my Dell order.
I have decided to build my own PC or have someone build it with equipment I select, rather than Michael's selections.

I have also upped my cost limit to around 600, which is what i figure i can spend on a good motherboard, chip, ram, case, and power supply.

I am gonna read reviews of boards, cases, etc. and see what I can come up with.

I would say wish me luck, but that would be asking a lot from some of the diks on here.
March 25, 2003 2:21:32 PM

I myself didn't say anything on this thread yet.

I'm glad that you did that. Your going to be so happy that canceled the order with Dell! You'll have a whale of a system & you know what? When you sit down & use it the satisfaction you get from doing it yourself is very rewarding.

One caution though. Once you do see how easy it is & how it runs, look out. You could get hooked & have to OC or something else. LOL


If it ain't broke, take it apart & see why not!
March 25, 2003 2:39:20 PM

i dont think anyone was making personal attacks against you.. we just didnt want to see you making a mistake and wasting your money. anyway im very sure that you will be more than happy with any machine you get custom built. be sure to let us know what you decide on.. good luck!

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.
March 25, 2003 2:59:27 PM

NICE DECISION!! Now your no longer stupid, your next big challenge is to overcome your love for Intel/Hatred for AMD and make a wise choice based upon todays prices/performance etc.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5467618 " target="_new">Almost Breaking 12k!!</A>
March 25, 2003 3:02:07 PM

Hokey Days: I have yet to post in this thread but Ive got some suggestions for ya if you'd like, and possibly some answers..........

Your brother in law's AMD computer, im not saying he doesnt know what hes doing, but, he says he'll never buy an AMD again, most likely because of the chipset/motherboard he has in his system, that is not the fault of the CPU, thsi is why everyone here was saying its not the Processor's fault, cuz its not....I will almost gaurantee your brother in law's AMD system has a VIA chipset, probably a VIA KT133 or KT133A.....they were VERY prone to being unreliable/unstable pieces of crap UNLESS you had the time to sit there and troubleshoot and install 4-in-1 drivers etc. etc.....

Anyways, those problems no longer exist, VIA has even smartened up, we hear no more complaints about the KT333-C stepping, or the latest VIA KT400 chipsets, there actualyl quite decent SINGLE MEMORY CHENNEL chipsets. Now, the company nVidia has a chipset out for the AMD platform called the nForce 2, which supports dual channel memory. Motherboards based off that chipset are awesome, stable, reliable and really just plain awesome, fast etc....

Now another thing that should be noted are CPU Steppings......you should know that a P4 2.0GHz Northwood draws MORE wattage than a AMD Athlon XP 2600+.....why?? Architectural design......P4 are known to be more power hungry than AMD's, but previous to the T-Bred 'B' core ran slightly cooler than AMD's as the P4's have a larger die surface......

Now situations have changed in the aspect that Athlon XP's based off the T-Bred 'B' core's definently run cooler than any of there P4 counterparts.......

An example of that is my Athlon XP 1700+ T-Bred 'B' JIUHB stepping 0302 CPU.......Overclocked well beyong 2400+ speeds now at DEFAULT voltage.........my full load temperature is at 29 degrees celcious on a MODDED Volcano 7+ HSF......

There's quite a few questions your should ask yourself.......are you going to be overclocking your system??? most peopel do these days, and if you do...i CERTAINLY recomend to you the current overclocking KING....the AMD Athlon XP 1700+ T-Bred 'B'........You'll hit a MINIMUM of 2.0GHz...i gaurantee you.....and a 2GHz AMD is like running a 2.4-2.5GHz P4..........and for what?? $48US??? SO here's what I recomend for you.....ok?

AMD Athlon XP 1700+ T-Bred 'B' CPU
ThermalTake Volcano 7+ HSF
Epox 8RDA+ nForce 2 Motherboard
2x 256MB of PC-2700 CL2 DDR Ram
60GB Seagate Baracuda V 7200RPM 8MB SATA HDD
1.44MB Floppy Drive
16X Lite-On DVD-Rom
350Watt Enermax Whisper Power Supply Unit

This above system will blow away any P4 system for the same money.......You'll notice i didnt include a video card, as im sure you wouldnt wanna scrap your AIW 7500......not the best card in the world, but defenently worth to keep for its multimedia capabilities.......Anyways, if you DONT want to overclock, exchange the 1700+ T-Bred 'B' CPU for the AMD Athlon XP 2600+ w/ 333MHz FSB........you wont regret it..........

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597" target="_new">-MeTaL RoCkEr</A>
March 25, 2003 3:12:52 PM

Nice one Hokey! Welcome to a whole new world...

As far as chip preference, to each his own. I've used both, and currently I'm using an XP2100 T-Bred B (becuase it overclocks very well). As far as past stability problems, that was due to inferior chipsets built around the AMD CPU's. Can I suggest a system that I think you would enjoy? BTW, I am slightly biased when it comes to WHERE to buy parts from. www.Newegg.com is in my opinion and many others the best place to go. They will let you RMA anything back should you destroy it, and send you a new one.
All prices include shipping :) 

Motherboard: MSI nForce2 K7N2-L = 95$
Memory : Samsung PC2700 256mb 42$x2 = 84$
AMD T-bred XP 1700: = 50$
PNY GeForce4 Ti4200 at Best Buy on sale = 86$w/tax in NY

Total = 315$

nForce 2 is a remarkable platform and you will see some amazing results when utilizing the dual memory (that's why we bought 2 sticks of 256 instead of 1 512).

Now, I just built this PC last Sunday for a buddy and he's totally loving it (like you said, he kept his HD, CD, case, and I had an old heat sink). Rock solid stability after some wicked toast testing (toast is a program that pushes your CPU to it's limits to test stability under pressure). I hate to admit it but I was kinda jealous since I'm still using my A7V333 board :p . Use this forum as a guide, and even if you don't buy from newegg.com read the product reviews, very informative. Good Luck!

<font color=purple><i>If I had a notch on my belt for every PC I'd destroyed, I'd have a really crappy looking belt</i></font color=purple>
March 25, 2003 3:21:14 PM

Great minds think alike! LOL.

Epox also has a great nForce2 board like he said, and it's close in price to the MSI I listed.

Two things Metal mentioned that I didn't was CL of the RAM. CL2 means a CAS Latency of 2 (maybe a little too techy for you yet, but think lower CL the better). The memory I listed has a CL of 2.5 standard, buy my Samsung will run at CL 2.0 without problems.

Also, faster HD's do make a difference. I just picked up a Maxtor 120gb with 8mb cache (if it doesn't say assume 2mb cache). WOW! If you would like to push that 600$ price point 135$ for a HD and another 50$ for memory (getting CL2 rated RAM instead of 2.5) would give you the most monster PC on your block.

<font color=purple><i>If I had a notch on my belt for every PC I'd destroyed, I'd have a really crappy looking belt</i></font color=purple>
March 25, 2003 3:28:15 PM

Thanks everyone. I have decided due to your previous flames to be open minded and not to discard anything. I realize, as some of you pointed out quickly, I was not making informed decisions. I am an impulse buyer and just wanted a new PC right away and was not willing to put in the time like you all probably did to get the perfect PC.

As Billy Murray put it in "What About Bob?" -"I want, I want, gimme, gimme, gimme, I need I need!"). But I am gonna do what Leo recommended to Bob, "Baby Steps" and read about motherboards, etc.

Regarding my bro-in-law, he has an AMD (sorry, dont know what kind), but he said that the AMD in his PC had a known incompatibilty with his ZIP Drive. But from your opinions on the AMD, maybe it was really a problem with the ZIP drive not working with AMD. Or could be an earlier version of AMD, like someone said. Regardless, I will be open to either Intel or AMD now thanks to you all.

I will keep you posted and appreciate the great help!
March 25, 2003 3:42:14 PM

Quote:
Regarding my bro-in-law, he has an AMD (sorry, dont know what kind), but he said that the AMD in his PC had a known incompatibilty with his ZIP Drive. But from your opinions on the AMD, maybe it was really a problem with the ZIP drive not working with AMD.

Well there is one of the answers with you Brother in law's rig. Zip Drive. With 48x burners as cheap as they are what in the world would you need a expensive Zip Drive for. Not only is the Zip drive & the media costly it's outdated stuff if you ask me. Haven't had one of those going in, oh 3 years now. Once burners got to 12 x Zip Drives were a thing of the past for me. Shoot you can get a 48 x burner for $50 or so. I buy CDR's with a rebate & never pay over $4.99 for a hundred of them. Sometimes you can even get them free like that. Compare that to the cost of a Zip Drive & media. Yea, don't mess with no Zip Drive.

Best bang for the buck goes to AMD without question in my mind.

If it ain't broke, take it apart & see why not!
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