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Playfield Restoration Arcylics vs Enamels?

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  • Phoenix
  • Video Games
Last response: in PC Gaming
June 25, 2005 2:12:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I'm still looking for advice on my phoenix restoration. Magic Eraser
made the playfield colors bright again, but I still need to touch up a
few areas. I was wondering which was the better route to go, enamels or
acrylics? I was pretty much set on acrylics till I saw the nice work
cliffy was doing on his pinbot with enamels. (
http://www.passionforpinball.com/pinbot.htm )

I have a local artist/painter buddy who's going to do the work because
he is a much more accomplished painter than me (better eye for color)..
but the end result is the playfield will go to Bill to get cleared.
Does that make a difference?

-Jonathan

More about : playfield restoration arcylics enamels

Anonymous
June 25, 2005 2:29:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Acrylics are more forgiving if your local artist/painter buddy screws
up. Just wipe off with a damp rag.

Marcel
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 6:03:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Good artists dont screw up. I use Testors model enamel paints,
available at hobby stores. Looks great and will hold up much better
then Acrylics. Also works great to fill in those tough deep cracks


dragonbreed@aol.com wrote:
> Acrylics are more forgiving if your local artist/painter buddy screws
> up. Just wipe off with a damp rag.
>
> Marcel
Related resources
June 25, 2005 8:47:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

If you are to clear coat this with a varathane or an auto clear make
sure to use acrylic. Enamel paint may lift or smear.

Salty wrote:
> I'm still looking for advice on my phoenix restoration. Magic Eraser
> made the playfield colors bright again, but I still need to touch up a
> few areas. I was wondering which was the better route to go, enamels or
> acrylics? I was pretty much set on acrylics till I saw the nice work
> cliffy was doing on his pinbot with enamels. (
> http://www.passionforpinball.com/pinbot.htm )
>
> I have a local artist/painter buddy who's going to do the work because
> he is a much more accomplished painter than me (better eye for color)..
> but the end result is the playfield will go to Bill to get cleared.
> Does that make a difference?
>
> -Jonathan
June 25, 2005 11:47:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Yeah, this is what I was wondering about. Those automotive clearcoats
use some serious solvents in them don't they? I was afraid they might
disolve the enamels and cause smearing.
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 1:14:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Oh brother. wrong. geez man, don't spread misinformation :) 

dd wrote:
> If you are to clear coat this with a varathane or an auto clear make
> sure to use acrylic. Enamel paint may lift or smear.
>

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 1:16:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

i screw most of the time, that why I use acrylics ;) 

Marcel
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 1:21:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

See? one uneducated post is enough to start people doubting. Salty, no.
They will not smear. Smearing was never an issue anyway. Here are things
you can't do:

You can't shoot laquer over enamels. Result = laquers dissolves enamel.
Sharpies bleed no matter what clear you shoot over them so if you must
use a sharpie you have to fog the clear on very lightly to keep it form
bleeding. Best is never to use a sharpie to begin with. Sharpies are
transparent anyway and are easy to spot because light shows through it.
Acrylics are great for easy mixing and cleanup. Mistakes fixed easy
enough but hell, just don't make mistakes. Enamels are better flowing,
more resilient and easier to sand without destroying.
Modern urethane clears like auto clears or varathane do not attack
underlying paints be they laquer, enamel or acrylic.

Salty wrote:
> Yeah, this is what I was wondering about. Those automotive clearcoats
> use some serious solvents in them don't they? I was afraid they might
> disolve the enamels and cause smearing.
>

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com
June 25, 2005 1:36:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thanks for the heads up cliffy. How do you mix colors? Is there a
standard CMYK pallete of enamels? I debabted borrowing a friends
colorometer to check colors. Of course that's only helpful if you have
CMYK colors to mix. Are you masking and airbrushing on your enamels?

-Jonathan
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 1:52:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I match by eye, trial and error. You have to know the basics of the ol'
color wheel but heck, we all learned that as kids right? :) 
Pinbot, F-14, Pinball Champ have all been hand brushed. Jumping Jack,
Rainbow and Sweet Hearts will be airbrushed acrylics because of the huge
solid color areas. For the long straight grid lines on Pinbot I used
Scotch tape to mask the lines. Detail areas are hand brushed. All are
cleared with waterborne gloss Varathane sprayed.

Salty wrote:
> Thanks for the heads up cliffy. How do you mix colors? Is there a
> standard CMYK pallete of enamels? I debabted borrowing a friends
> colorometer to check colors. Of course that's only helpful if you have
> CMYK colors to mix. Are you masking and airbrushing on your enamels?
>
> -Jonathan
>

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 2:57:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Auto urethanes CAN smear enamels. I know, i tried it with several
brands of urethanes and testors enamels. it didn't happen with
every brand of urethane, but it did happen.

to me enamels are not worth the trouble. but if you are comfortable
with enamels, go for it. but consider the advantages of acrylics.
you can get a lot more pure color varietiess in acrylics, they are
cheaper, easier to get (more stores sell them), and easier to work
with.

so what's the advantage of enamels? they flow a little flatter,
maintain better gloss, and are more durable. BUT those advantages
only matter if you are *not* clearcoating.

So this is how i see it. If you are clearcoating after your
touchup, use acrylics. If you are not clearcoating after touchup,
use enamels.

Or just use what you are comfortable with. But since you are
asking us here, i have a feeling you are not comfortable with
either!

more information:
http://marvin3m.com/clear

Cliffy wrote:
> See? one uneducated post is enough to start people doubting. Salty, no.
> They will not smear. Smearing was never an issue anyway. Here are things
> you can't do:
>
> You can't shoot laquer over enamels. Result = laquers dissolves enamel.
> Sharpies bleed no matter what clear you shoot over them so if you must
> use a sharpie you have to fog the clear on very lightly to keep it form
> bleeding. Best is never to use a sharpie to begin with. Sharpies are
> transparent anyway and are easy to spot because light shows through it.
> Acrylics are great for easy mixing and cleanup. Mistakes fixed easy
> enough but hell, just don't make mistakes. Enamels are better flowing,
> more resilient and easier to sand without destroying.
> Modern urethane clears like auto clears or varathane do not attack
> underlying paints be they laquer, enamel or acrylic.
>
> Salty wrote:
> > Yeah, this is what I was wondering about. Those automotive clearcoats
> > use some serious solvents in them don't they? I was afraid they might
> > disolve the enamels and cause smearing.
> >
>
> --
> Cliffy - CARGPB2
> A passion for pinball!
> http://www.passionforpinball.com
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 3:27:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

oopss.. lol
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 3:29:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Your reply would be more useful if you would post the brand of urethane
clear to avoid. And please explain your definition of "smear". To smear
involves a physical process of moving the paint from where it was
originally applied. Do you mean "bleeding" perhaps? This could be more
likely but only because of the solvent carrier, not the urethane itself.
Again, a brand to avoid would be more helpful.

cfh@provide.net wrote:
> Auto urethanes CAN smear enamels. I know, i tried it with several
> brands of urethanes and testors enamels. it didn't happen with
> every brand of urethane, but it did happen.
>
> more information:
> http://marvin3m.com/clear
>

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 4:14:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I just used Acrylics on mine 13 colours and none of them lifted or
smeared using ChromaClear 7600.

Kevin

"dd" <armandb@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1119700047.479203.3600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> If you are to clear coat this with a varathane or an auto clear make
> sure to use acrylic. Enamel paint may lift or smear.
>
> Salty wrote:
>> I'm still looking for advice on my phoenix restoration. Magic Eraser
>> made the playfield colors bright again, but I still need to touch up a
>> few areas. I was wondering which was the better route to go, enamels or
>> acrylics? I was pretty much set on acrylics till I saw the nice work
>> cliffy was doing on his pinbot with enamels. (
>> http://www.passionforpinball.com/pinbot.htm )
>>
>> I have a local artist/painter buddy who's going to do the work because
>> he is a much more accomplished painter than me (better eye for color)..
>> but the end result is the playfield will go to Bill to get cleared.
>> Does that make a difference?
>>
>> -Jonathan
>
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 4:23:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I typed it all up once, why do i have to repeat the facts again?
please read the link i put at the end of my post. I spent
over $200 in product testing 6 different clear brands. You'll
note that everyone tends to use Dupont 7600, probably based
largely on the testing i did of all the different clears early on.
this was long before bill davis appeared on the pinball scene.

i gave the web page link, go read it and find out which brand(s)
had problems with enamel. smear may not be the best word. maybe
"lift" or "bleed". but it doesn't really matter. there was a
problem. a problem is a problem, and that's just one reason why
i don't think testor's enamels are the best choice for playfield
touchup if auto clears are used after. but if you're comfortable
with enamels, and found a clear and a process that works for
you, that's fine. no one is arguing that. just there is POTENTIAL
for a problem, and i think people should be aware of it. the
problem may not ever happen to many people. but it did happen
to me.

Cliffy wrote:
> Your reply would be more useful if you would post the brand of urethane
> clear to avoid. And please explain your definition of "smear". To smear
> involves a physical process of moving the paint from where it was
> originally applied. Do you mean "bleeding" perhaps? This could be more
> likely but only because of the solvent carrier, not the urethane itself.
> Again, a brand to avoid would be more helpful.
>
> cfh@provide.net wrote:
> > Auto urethanes CAN smear enamels. I know, i tried it with several
> > brands of urethanes and testors enamels. it didn't happen with
> > every brand of urethane, but it did happen.
> >
> > more information:
> > http://marvin3m.com/clear
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 4:50:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

sorry. I retract everything I've said on the subject. I guess I've only
been lucky for the past 20 some years. My bad. Clay good :) 

cfh@provide.net wrote:
> I typed it all up once, why do i have to repeat the facts again?

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 8:17:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Nice work Jozepp!

I also use only oil-based gloss enamels. They change colors very little,
if any, as they dry. The acrylic touchups I've done are frustrating as
they are one shade when wet, anothet when dry, and still another when
you apply the necessary clear coat!

I'd like to sit down sometime and do a full playfield repaint like
Cliffy has done with his PinBot. You have to clear your mind, slow down,
and focus on a task like that. Good therapy in our modreen world!

bogart
www.pinrestore.com

jozepp@nycpinball.com wrote:
> check out this touch up job all done with enamel paints.
>
> http://groups.msn.com/NYCPinballPubcrawl/playfieldtouch...
>
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 8:30:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Then it's a wonder you even have time for playfield touchups!

bogart
www.pinrestore.com

dragonbreed@aol.com wrote:
> i screw most of the time, that why I use acrylics ;) 
>
> Marcel
>
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 8:36:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Auto clears were designed to cover enamel color coats. Just make sure
the touchups are completely dried. Don't be making last-minute touchups
just before the clear goes on and you should be fine. Stay away from
Lacquers. The whole function of a lacquer is to melt the underlying
paint, no matter how old, and blend with it.

bogart
www.pinrestore.com

Salty wrote:
> Yeah, this is what I was wondering about. Those automotive clearcoats
> use some serious solvents in them don't they? I was afraid they might
> disolve the enamels and cause smearing.
>
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:21:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

BAD CLIFFY!

You didn't peruse the "sacred" pages! >:I

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************






"Cliffy" <crinear@comcast.net> wrote in message news:84qdnRMyUYgXKCDfRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> sorry. I retract everything I've said on the subject. I guess I've only
> been lucky for the past 20 some years. My bad. Clay good :) 
>
> cfh@provide.net wrote:
> > I typed it all up once, why do i have to repeat the facts again?