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Athlon vs P4

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April 2, 2003 1:44:20 PM

I have an XP1800+, 512ddram pc2100, asus a7v mobo.
Looking around for prices, i noticed that it is NOT a big diff at all between P4 and AMD lately!
P4 2.4 or 2.6 vs Barton...Nvidia chipset mobo and asus P4 mobo....
I am not an addict but i have my share of UT2k3 daily.
Keeping it in the XP2200+,2400+ P4 2,4 area....what would you recommend(videocard is a radeon9500pro)??
AMD or Intel?

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April 2, 2003 2:05:31 PM

If you want, you might want to take a look at <A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/index.html" target="_new">some benchmarks</A>... Or even, to be more specific, some benchmarks on <A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/cpu_charts-24..." target="_new">UT2k3</A>, if that´s your thing. Actually, UT2k3 is the single app in which the AXP is outstanding, and is the single app in which the PR rating of the Bartons is not debatable. If you want AMD, you might go with the 2400 or the 2600 - I don´t really think I´d recommend the Barton - or if you want Intel, the 2.53Ghz P4 is quite a good offering coming from them. Your choice. You can´t actually go wrong. And as to price differences, AMD has lost pretty much all of its appeal because of lower prices, at least in the high-performance area (2.5Ghz or equiv. and beyond). The mobo and memory combo for AMD might still come a little cheaper, though... So the whole system might be a little cheaper with AMD, still.
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April 2, 2003 4:14:44 PM

You know, I think that if I were to buy a computer now, I´d get an Intel system. Depending on the cash I had, I´d get either a 2.53 or try the 3.06Ghz. But I really wouldn´t go AMD now just because I don´t really like the way they´re doing business... They´re messing up lately, or so it looks like.
April 2, 2003 5:41:18 PM

Yeah, Meph. I've bought 5 different AMD processors. I am seriously considering going over to the dark side with my next upgrade. I am really interested in Canterwood with its memory enhancements, 800 FSB, and fully integrated SATA.

It's a tough choice because I still have a soft spot for AMD. But I also have a soft-spot for performance, and if AMD is no cheaper...




<-----Insert witty sig line here.
April 2, 2003 6:59:46 PM

well....i was thinking the same thing.The 3.06 Hyper from intel is a good cpu.Another thing that is ballancing the AMD/Intel weights is that video on THG ...the one where they take off the sinks and fans.P4 slows down in Q3 to 1-3 fps but the application DOES NOT STOP!!!.That was amazing compared to 369 degrees of the AMD...P4 proved to be a stable, well built cpu.AMD ,like you said..kinda screwed up lately.And looking at the future, the prices look the same in the 2.0ghz and over area.So...the benchmarks look not that diff on 2.2 , 2.4 and over ghz
I would like to ask the AMDs (i am an AMD myself) out there to give me a reason to go ahead and get the xp2400+ and not the 2.4 or 2.5 ghz from intel.

<font color=green>my computer is a cheater...</font color=green>
April 2, 2003 7:02:21 PM

---->"I am really interested in Canterwood with its memory enhancements, 800 FSB, and fully integrated SATA."<-----
same thoughts roam my head...


<font color=green>my computer is a cheater...</font color=green>
April 2, 2003 7:13:25 PM

Yup that's why I'm going to get a P4 3.06Ghz with HT and a Canterwood mobo in the summer ^^
April 2, 2003 7:32:41 PM

I suppose if AMD does not deliver smth GOOD, FAST and CHEAP really soon,they will start losing cusotmers...All my friends are talking about the same thing...P4 instead of AMD.
The 3.06 runs nice....most of all in Linux...:) 

<font color=green>my computer is a cheater...</font color=green>
April 3, 2003 3:24:53 AM

I'm leaving AMD for Intel. Waiting on Canterwood. Intel has so much going on for the next 2 plus years.
April 3, 2003 4:09:13 AM

wow..amazing...everybody is thinking about the same thing!!!
AMD is losing ground....big time!!!
lets hope prices will drop a lot once the Opteron is out...

<font color=green>my computer is a cheater...</font color=green>
April 4, 2003 2:26:34 PM

Nah, I'd still go for AMD :p 

Sure Intel has 800 mhz FSB coming up, but AMD has 400 FSB and possibility for 2.5 Ghz. The 3000+ is easily clocked at just 2.5 GHz. And Opteron is just around the corner, with Athlon 64 coming in 5 months. 800 mhz FSB Intel won't be around until May at earliest.

AMD platforms are cheaper. You will have to shell out approx. $100 more for a Granite Bay, or even more to get RDRAM. Using just single-channel DDR333, performance of the P4 will 'generally' not be as fast as an AMD system.

beerstore: AMD processors WILL survive the removal of a CPU heatsink, if the mainboard has thermal protection, which so many AMD mainboard incorporates as of today.

*immature old fanboyistic line deliberately removed*

Just my 50 cents and thoughts...
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by sabbath1 on 04/09/03 10:16 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 4, 2003 2:52:55 PM

well...it is your choice.
comparing the mb prices, if you want a fast amd platform, you need the best mb out there, which is not cheap.comparing to intel's, there is not diff at all.
The cpu's have the same price in the 2400+ area.
as for the COP, yea..it was a must..AMD revokes the warranty if the mb does not INCLUDE the COP option, intel decided to deal with it..and they did.(maybe you have not seen the video on THG?)
and for the things to come, if you wait, there is never a good time to upgrade....:) 


<font color=green>my computer is a cheater...</font color=green>
April 4, 2003 3:08:57 PM

It´s indeed your choice to go with AMD or Intel... Neither is that bad a choice. But as to price differences, a well-chosen cpu/mobo/memory combo from AMD for power users won´t cost much less than a cpu/mobo/memory combo for Intel.

You know, I´d consider AMD more seriously if it weren´t for Canterwood coming out within 10 days... It´ll already feature 800Mhz FSB, dual-DDR400 (PAT), AGP 8X, Serial ATA... My god, what else can anyone possibly need? This beast should eat i850E for breakfast (at last), with Granite Bay as an appetizer. AMD has no real line of defense, unless people start buying opteron as a desktop alternative. The 400Mhz FSB is, as of yet, <i>not</i> coming out. The 3200+ will still use 333Mhz FSB, and it´s got a tough competition to cope with. AMD better get that clock increase right...
April 4, 2003 3:10:11 PM

No, actually my Soltek 75FRN with nForce2 incorporating Flawless ABS2 therm protection, can be had for $100! A speed comparable P4 with Gbay chip, eg. ASUS costs $250.
There is a clear difference if you ask me.

Yes, the CPU's are still very similarly priced.

I know that AMD does not warrant if you haven't used a mainboard with thermal protection, but there are a good choice of boards out there which has a protection for it. MSI, Soltek, ASUS etc.
And on another note, a mainboard not incorporation working therm. prot. will not recieve a licence from AMD.

Believe me, I have seen the THG video, many times. Once again, only the Thunderbird CPU will burn if you make sure the mainboard has therm. prot.

There is never a good time to upgrade. And maybe AMD will not be able to keep up with the 800 FSB P4. But we will surely hope they will. If for nothing else, then for the sake of competition. Competition is good. If not for competition, no one would be able to upgrade their system as often as we can.
April 4, 2003 3:20:59 PM

I think the top performer for AMD would usually be equipped with Corsair DDR, with its lightning fast performance. As for that Granite Bay you mentioned that costs $250, that´s just ridiculous. P4s still perform best when on i850, which costs no more than $150. The usual AMD platform is A7N8X or some variant (most people go with A7N8X anyway) and that prices in at around $110-120. One stick of 256MB DDR400 from Corsair (CAS 2) would cost you around $135 and one stick of 256MB RDRAM from Corsair might even cost less. (actually, you can get 256MB ECC RDRAM for $135 bucks from Corsair). So if you want top-of-the-line, prices really won´t differ at all!

The only thing is that i850 is getting old. It doesn´t support AGP 8x. I´m not going to write "Canter****" again...
April 4, 2003 3:22:34 PM

AMD won't sitting on their laurels, that's for sure.

Yes, the Canterwood chipset will come out in 10 days, but the CPU required for enhanced speed will not. It'll come out in May, much like the 3200+ from AMD. There's a lot of rumors, r.u.m.o.r.s. not confirmed by AMD, but there's definitely the chance of a 400 mhz FSB AMD. I don't think AMD would release a 3200+ if it wasn't at least somewhat comparable to the P4 at 3.2 Ghz. A point proving AMD's capability to increase clock speed is the ability to overclock the 3000+ to 2.5 Ghz, something many people have succeeded to do.

Maybe I'm sounding stubborn, but apart from the CPU, Canterwood will offer no extra goodies, with the bare exception of integrated Serial ATA, which might be a goodie, if finally it makes SATA faster than IDE.

All hail good competition...
April 4, 2003 3:29:29 PM

What about PAT - the performance acceleration technology in Canterwood-based Northbridges that improves memory controller performance? Doesn´t that count as a "goodie"?... Maybe you´re being stubborn about dismissing it and I´m being stubborn about it being excellent, don´t know... :smile:

Actually, how do you know for sure that the 3.2Ghz P4 will only come out in May? I was kinda looking for information on its release date, but got nowhere...
April 4, 2003 3:29:38 PM

see, the debate is on..:) 
For the very end user, an AMD platform is much cheaper than Intel.XP1700+, 256ddram, ECS mobo, 40 gb hdd , a GF4 mx and there u go:a very cheap one, still can play most of the games, superman for email or surfing....But when you really want the FPS as high as poss, you look at the high market.Right now i cant afford a real upgrade, i will move from 1800+ to 2200+ and video card only.As for intel, i would really really love to see some benchmarks of 3.06 under red hat...to see that HT at work in a linux env.
Let's face it, AMD has no rival for Intel right now.Yes, it happend before, but till then, Intel has the votes...
Barton?That was just a move to show the market that AMD is still here....
I am an AMD myself, but i am already turning my head around....

<font color=green>my computer is a cheater...</font color=green>
April 4, 2003 3:34:56 PM

Why buy Corsair? TwinMOS memory will offer very comparable performance and heat dissipation at a much lower price.

Granite Bay from MSI indeed costs $250. ASUS P4G8X: $220.

i850 costs $150, but RDRAM prices are much higher. MUCH higher. Unjustified price.

I tried A7N8X, it just sucks if you ask me. Poor stability and compatilibity makes Soltek 75FRN the choice I would recommend to others.
But anyways, prices between them are small.

I don't know where you find those prices, but Corsair RDRAM costs from $100 and more in additional cost over Corsair DDR. Please link me, and I'll be happy to admit otherwise.

i850 is old as you say. Surely Canter**** will be fast and new, and maybe will overpower AMD. And maybe not. Let's see.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by sabbath1 on 04/09/03 10:19 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 4, 2003 3:47:20 PM

mephistopheles:

Sorry, I must say I didn't know about PAT, and I thought I knew all about C-wood :p 
It's probably gonna make a big difference, can't help thinking that's it a theft from AMD though :p 

I've read somewhere that May would be the release date of the 3.2. I'm not 100% sure. But it can't come in just a few days though, since it's nowhere to be seen.
But no denying that times will be increasingly difficult for AMD. Hopefully the rumor of an absent AGP port of Opteron boards are not true.


beerstore:

AMD still offers lower total price if you look at everything involved, even at the high-end sector.
Stubborn or not, I must say the 3000+ is comparable to the P4 3.06. If you count all the reviews around the internet, that's a conclusion you will have to make.
At a lower price. Yes, I own this CPU myself, but that's irrelevant :p 

By the way, the 3.06 runs hotter and the boxed fan is more noisy, so the overall product could still be in the hands of AMD.

Personally I don't think I'll switch sides until AMD is dead and gone, or Intel starts making up with their sometimes "strong-arming" past.
But maybe a failure in the "Hammer" sector could change my stubborn mind... Or a very strong new P4 CPU.

Another thought... The P4 3.06 runs at 81 Watt sheer power. With the boxed cooler being as noisy and hot as it is, I wonder how Intels supposed to soon be running 800 mhz FSB at 3.2 Ghz? Just a thought, waiting to be reversed...<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by sabbath1 on 04/09/03 10:24 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 4, 2003 8:51:06 PM

I am curious when Centrino technology will migrate to desktops :) . The results have been VERY impressive on laptops to say the least.

I too am looking at Canterwood for my next upgrade.

---------------

Ray Charles is my co-pilot
April 4, 2003 10:14:11 PM

Quote:
I have an XP1800+, 512ddram pc2100, asus a7v mobo.
...
I am not an addict but i have my share of UT2k3 daily.

You didn't mention your video card. That has much more influence on gaming performance. You say that you play UT2k3 daily. Do you notice bad performance right now? Or is there another application that is causing you to upgrade? I was just curious because I think that upgrading is necessary when something breaks or if you get an application that needs it. My Athlon 1.4 GHz with 512 MB SDRAM and a GeForce4 4200 still plays all my games just fine... although I know that an upgrade is getting pretty close (maybe when I can afford some of the latest games).

As for being an addict, my own definition of being an addict is when you spend the money on upgrading when no upgrade is necessary. I used to be an addict, and I am probably still an addict at heart, just not in practice anymore now that I am married. Of course, you can also define it by how much you know about computers, how much time you spend on computer forums, or by how much you use them. It is just a difficult term to define accurately.

As for all the comments about leaving AMD and moving to Intel. I think that it is interesting how people feel sided with one or the other. I think that when I upgrade, AMD will be my choice especially with their 1700+'s. I don't think you can get near the performance from any Intel cpu for less than $70.00. If I had to have top performance, I wouldn't hesitate about buying Intel. A 3.06 GHz cpu would feel very nice in my box.
April 5, 2003 7:19:06 AM

My video card is an ATI Radeon 9500Pro 128 mb, 8 pipes, 128bit mem interface.The games runs nicely, but i saw ut on an 9700 Pro...so...i guess it is an urge to run better...you always upgrade in a way if you ask me..there is always smth to upgrade, no matter what system are you running..:) 
The games runs smooth, but it can be even smoother...and as far as i can see there is quite a diff between 9500pro and 9700pro/9800pro.($$$ as well ;) )
CPU is 1800+ and i am trying to move to 2200+, 2400+.
I guest that will do for now.

<font color=green>my computer is a cheater...</font color=green>
April 6, 2003 4:32:07 AM

How about Grandsdale, Tejas with 1.2 Gig FSB and whatever else Intel has coming down the pike in the next two years.
April 6, 2003 7:33:32 AM

I plan on going Canterwood shortly after they come out. Maybe in early May with a 2.8 to 3.0 ghz CPU I use to be all AMD, but lately they are not putting out anything really good right now. Athlon 64 looks good, but WHEN!!

One mans throw-away is another mans god-box. Help friends in need, I always do!!
Then again, having extra parts are great for making dedicated servers for LAN parties!!!!
!