super high temperature!!

Hi, i've got a amd 1800xp palamio series and at when surfing the web etc, it's temperature is at a whopping 58 degree..i'm just using a regular fan...is this temperature at a dangerous lvl and need fan upgrading or is it safe? thanks people!

I'm for the UNDERDOGS!

Nope, din overclock it...anything i can do about it??? without of course spending bucks on a new hsf! Thanks!

I'm for the UNDERDOGS!

my friend's Palamino 2000+ when at full load hits 72-73C easily. One simple thing u can do to reduce your temp, of course without spending any bucks is keep the case open. ur CPU temp will come down by 5-10C.

Palaminos are a hot running CPU but they should not run that hot. Your system may be stable, but each added degree takes you one step closer to a system failure. Properly cooled you should see temperatures in the low-mid 40c range at idle and the low 50c range under full load.

In contrast to some people's advice I don't like to see CPUs run that hot. What you lose with each added degree is some of your safety margin.

You can try heatsink compound, as one of the others suggested, but you don't put it on the heatsink... you put it on the cpu so that you don't have excess compound all over the place after you assemble it. To apply the compound you will first need to clean off all that rubbery gunk from the bottom of the heatsink and the top of the CPU. Use a plastic scraper and work very carefully, you don't want to scratch anything. Clean everything with rubbing alcohol, hospital clean, after you're done scraping. There are several compounds you can use, Radio Shack has a good one that is fairly cheap or you can use Arctic Silver if you want to go exotic. No matter what compound you use the correct application method is here:
<A HREF="http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm" target="_new">http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm</A>

A far better idea would be to invest a few bucks into a good hybrid heatsink, one with a copper bottom and aluminum fins. This will give you the best results. Any heatsink with a thermal resistence of .6 or less should bring your temps down into the mid 40s at idle and low 50s with average loading. Here is one example of a good hybrid heatsink:
<A HREF="http://www.spirecooler.com/asp/fcc.asp?ProdID=95" target="_new">http://www.spirecooler.com/asp/fcc.asp?ProdID=95</A>

I've also noticed that some AMD CPUs are not completely flat on top. This allows the heatsink to move against the top of the chip which will break any thermal connection between them, resulting in tempartures that creep up over time. Because of this I suggest you take some added steps to stabilize the mechanical assembly of the cpu and heatsink. This can be accomplished by using a <i>non-conductive</i> shim, like this one:
<A HREF="http://www.casecooler.com/unnonmicshim.html" target="_new">http://www.casecooler.com/unnonmicshim.html</A>
(Don't use the copper ones, no matter what anyone tells you!)


--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

The AMD stock fans also tend to clog up with dust and dirt very quickly... Clean your HSF out to maximise air flow... you can gain a few degrees back easy...



To err is human... to really screw things up you need a computer!

I'm on an Athlon XP 1800+ w/ Volcano 6 CU. Case temp is 28 C, CPU temp was 58 C idle when I got the processor, now 1 1/2 years later, it's about 63 C. HSF mounted using thermal pad, case setup with 80mm intake and exhaust fans. It was always stable before so I never bothered worrying about the CPU temp, but now if I leave my computer on for extended periods of time (more than 12 hours or so), it dies and I have to wait for awhile before starting up my system again. Do you think applying Artic Silver will help lower the temp and stabilize the system or should I get a better HSF?

Your temps are way higher than I'd ever let any chip run.

See my suggestions in the previous message... a hybrid heatsink with thermal resistence less than .6, thermal grease (A.S. is good) and the non-conductive shim. This appears to have solved the problem for me.

As I pointed out, there are mechanical stability problems with AMD cpus that are just now starting to show up in a bunch of systems I've had in the field for a year or so. Mainly the problem is that the small heat island, rubber pads and spring clip method does not hold the heatsink sufficiently rigid. It can and does rock ontop of the CPU heat island with only slight side pressure. The non-conductive shim seems to solve the problem by immobilizing the heatsink so the grease/pad isn't disturbed.

I have a system here where the temps were getting into the 70s after a few days in-service. I must have re-seated that heatsink about 20 times and finally ended up giving the customer a Celeron system to replace it. I already had a hybrid heatsink on it (the one I gave a link to) and with the steps I described to immobilize the heatsink the current temps are: Ambient 24c, Case 30, CPU 46... and holding.


--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

One question, did you take the sticker seal off of the bottom of the heatsink? Im not trying to be insulting to your inteligence, but its somethign to be overlooked on any heatsink

<font color=red>*</font color=red><font color=white>*</font color=white><font color=blue>*</font color=blue>
... And I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free, and I won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.

Non-Conductive Shims ... to be exact.

They should be made of either Mica or hard plastic... not metal!

--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

It's not a case problem, my case is 27 C, 1 intake, 1 exhaust fan. Case open doesn't improve the CPU temp. I'm pretty sure it's the heatsink isn't making the best contact with the CPU like Teq suggested.

You think so? I've heard users who run Volcano 6 CU nicely (as in 50 C) on Athlon XP 1800+

ummm... OK, if you think 50c is a good temperature.

Most of my AMD systems run in the high 30c - low 40c range in a 22c office environment and I commonly set the heat alarms to 55c.

My own beater system, an XP1800+ palamino, is running at 46c in a 25c room, even at sustained 100% CPU load it never goes over 51c and I consider this to be "adequate", not good.


--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

Hi Pete,
Take a look at what is in and around the CPU socket and while you are there take a look at the socket itself...

There are many parts inside the socket on an average Motherboard, these parts are in a closed environment with zero airflow and are thus subjected to the same temperatures as the thermistor that measures your CPU temps. While it is true that the CPU can bear 60c or 70c quite nicely, this may not be true of the parts inside that socket. If you look up the specs on most logic chips (even the micro-nmos used on most Motherboards) you will find their safe operating temperatures top out in the 40c to 50c range. Capacitors often top off at 35c. Unless special high temperature devices are used, the heat from the back of the CPU could well cause instability and even parts failures at temperatures as low as 35 or 40c inside that socket well. And, how do you think they make these motherboards so cheap? They do it by using consumer grade parts instead of their industrial or military equivalents.

Now look at the socket... see all that nifty hard plastic? Well the big news is that it's plastic. Most plastics begin deteriorating slowly at temperatres far below their melting points. A high temperature plastic, like those sockets are made of, might not melt till you hit 150c but they will begin slowly going brittle and breaking down at less than half of that. The higher the temperature of that plastic the shorter it's useable life...

Am I being paranoid? I don't think so. I've already got a bunch of AMD machines, built between a year and a 18 months ago that are starting to give me trouble because of the high temperatures in and around the CPU.
When I first built these machines I did what most do... stuck on the stock cooler, fired them up, loaded the OS and let them go out to customers. About a month into it I had to go to each of them and put on aftermarket coolers to get them to run sufficiently stable for an office environment, I've put in temperature monitoring software so customers can inform me when the heatsinks need re-seating and I've just recently had to figure out a problem with heat emergencies arrising after the systems are moved, so now I'm going to have to go back to each machine and put in some custom made CPU shims one of my customers is making for me... and all this at my own expense.

I haven't seen a broken socket yet (<i>yet</i> ) but I have seen almost every other kind of heat related problem you can have with such a setup. I've seen parts inside the sockets badly discloloured, thermistors with the plastic on one side melted into the chip itself, discolouration of the plastic in the sockets, etc. I've also noticed that the temperatures on these CPUs tends to creep up over time, even in machines that are never moved... and every degree hotter takes you one step closer to failure.

AMD is without a doubt a technically superior CPU... they'll whip the pants off any Intel cpu at the same clock speeds. But they are poorly made. The tops of the heat islands are often slightly domed, not flat, which prevents proper contact with even the best heatsink. The tops of the cores are seldom truly parallell to the carrier which also can cause problems with mating to the heatsink. Those 4 rubber pads are not sufficiently rigid to immobilize the heatsink against the top of the cpu, it can slide around and tilt itself very easily, which tends to squeeze whatever thermal pad or compound right out of the junction, leaving it in essentially a state of having nothing between the CPU and Cooler. The spring clip method means having a gap in the heatsink fins, right at the hottest point, which greatly impedes proper cooling of the chip.

I've solved some of these problems by taking off the rubber feet and replacing them with .75mm thick nylon pieces mounted on the extreme corners of the carrier... When you clip on the heatsink the chip flexes enough that I get a rigid 5 point mount with the 4 corner pieces taking about 1/3 of the pressure off the core, providing a mechanically stable cooling assembly.

But still the fact remains that if AMD were to spend the extra 20 cents and put a decent chip-sized heatspreader on their chips, none of the stability problems would arrise. If heatsink manufacturers would spend the extra 30 or so cents to put individual spring mounted clips on either side of the sink, the gap in the middle could be eliminated and the heatsink efficiency could be increased pronouncedly.

These are simple things... not engineering marvels... just common sense heat handling... why they aren't done I will never know.




--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

This is a double edged question... how many people won't buy <i>again</i> and how many won't buy <i>in the first place</i>?

I for one will not be purchasing AMD CPUs in the future because of the profit robbing problems I've run into. And I've contacted them and let them know about the problems I've run into... no reply.

Simple questions...

Would you pay $10.00 more for a CPU that performs like AMDs do and has decent heat handling built in? I certainly would.

Would you pay $5.00 more for a heatsink that would mount properly and have far better cooling characteristics? I certainly would.


They could --and should-- do these things and still maintain a very competative market with Intel... In fact, AMD cpus could easily run cooler and faster than Intel with higher reliability. All it would take is the extra manufacturing step of bonding a copper heatspreader to their chips. It would cost them about 20 cents and raise the price to end users by no more than a couple of dollars, but it would make a far superior product.

The same with heatsinks... Re-thinking the mounting method, closing that gap in the fins would probably reduce their thermal resistence by a third. This would allow the production of physically smaller heatsinks with quieter fans that work better than anything we have now... I can't speak to manufacturing economics of this, but I'd bet they could sell them at current prices, or less.


When you are dealing with high performance electronics, the WalMart approach just doesn't work... which might explain AMD's measly 10% market share.



--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

Yep, it certainly does seem we are in agreement...

I like AMD processors, their performance is second to none. What I don't like is the poor construction and lousy heat solution AMD's used to save a few bucks. Their cheapness ends up costing me money and I'm not too fond of that. As I mentioned in other threads about 25% of the machines I have under service contracts are AMD but they take up half of my time.

I would use AMD almost exclusively if they would just fix the problems.





--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

"I'll certainly agree that AMD solutions are inferior to Intel, to the point that I would never have considered them for office/workplace desktops."

To be specific... their "heat solutions" are inferior. The electronic design of the cPU is great, better than Intel... it's the assembly that's the problem.

The parts inside the socket are a mix of ships, resistors and capacitors on most motherboards. Take a magnifying glass in there and look around, you'll be amazed how small they make these things nowadays. In particular, the logic chips will be sensitive to temperature and may not get enough heat sinking effect from their own leads.

I can and do make the nylon bits work. It sometimes takes a bit of filing and a little cursing but, so far so good. I have enough precisions made bits coming in a few days to fix my current machines and I'm hoping to be able to just clip them on and go... but, of course, I will test them first, as I always do.

Also, I've sent several heat sink makers the design for a new type shim, which clips around the cpu and has blocks on the top-sides of the chip, so you don't have to remove the feet or void the warranty. The dimensions and overall design are worked out to provide a rigid assembly of heatsink and cpu without screwing up what little airflow there is in that part of the assembly.

Yes, I know AMD specifies the spring clip... and a whopping 14 pounds of pressure! But there is no need to have a big huge channel in the middle of the heatsink. By using two separate spring loaded clips, one on each side of the sink, they could eliminate it outright.

By the way... the chip doesn't need 14 pounds of pressure to cool itself. As little as a few ounces of pressure would do it if the heat sink was rigidly positioned... all that extra pressure is an attempt to keep the heat sink from moving, so at some level they already know about this problem.

Of course all of this would simply go away if AMD would put a chip-sized copper heat spreader on their CPUs the way Intel and Via do.

Really... these are not insurmountable problems... just some basic re-thinking of an obviously poor design.



--->It ain't better if it don't work<---

Well, this is all being done for a group of about 50 AMD machines I built between a year and 18 months ago. I may also have to do it to about 15 newer ones I built early this year which aren't on my service contracts (cheapies for a group of college kids).

I've updated my availability lists and will no longer be selling AMD based machines... at least not until they fix this problem.


--->It ain't better if it don't work<---