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Chris Hutchins FH arrives from his new shop!

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Anonymous
June 29, 2005 8:00:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Just took delivery of Chris's FH from his new shop. Nos pf, new
ramps,decals, plastics, the whole shootin match. It plays and looks
better than NIB. Amazing. I can't put it next to any other pin because
it makes them pale in comparison. Now on to the Creature. Can't wait.
Thanks, Buddy
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 9:31:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

better than nib? what does the cabinet look like? hmmm....

Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
(who has a little pet peeve with people using the BETTER THAN NIB
catchphrase ;-)
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 12:55:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I'm still knocked out by a total restoration that Chris did on my Twilight
Zone a couple months back. I had no idea that this pin could look and play
this well.

Pretty cool to see that three ball magnet grab during the opening of
multi-ball...

-- Todd

"sea girt" <buddybunch@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1120042842.615236.208540@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Just took delivery of Chris's FH from his new shop. Nos pf, new
> ramps,decals, plastics, the whole shootin match. It plays and looks
> better than NIB. Amazing. I can't put it next to any other pin because
> it makes them pale in comparison. Now on to the Creature. Can't wait.
> Thanks, Buddy
>
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
June 29, 2005 1:48:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Every PF & Game I saw at Chris's place, would rate
"As good as New" or better,,,, only wish a few of those were my
games,,, Miss my CV & MM.

Pin-Del,
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 1:55:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Del Jun 29, 12:48 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: "Del" <delmail...@gmail.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: 29 Jun 2005 09:48:37 -0700
Local: Wed,Jun 29 2005 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: Chris Hutchins FH arrives from his new shop!
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Every PF & Game I saw at Chris's place, would rate
"As good as New" or better,,,, only wish a few of those were my
games,,, Miss my CV & MM.


Pin-Del,

even the ones with decals in the clearcoat? sorry, i completely
disagree.

they may LOOK like new, but certainly not AS GOOD as new.

you gonna take a game that has been restored over a nib one? no-one
would.

Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
June 29, 2005 2:09:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

KOZ,
You'd have to see for your-self ,, Chris is not Bragging, Its the
people who have seen his work ( It speaks for it-self ) ,
You are welcomed to disagree =)

Pin-Del,
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 2:49:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

i am not debating the LOOKS of the pin, i saw some of his work at expo.
they look great.

but to claim cabs with decals and decals in clearcoat are better than
nib, sorry, i don't think it is opinion, i think it is fact that they
can't be better than nib, not even equal. sorry :-)

Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 5:22:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

So you're saying MXV's funhouse playfield isn't better then NIB then . . .
I'm sorry but all the original diamond plated playfields are a very poor
second to Bill's work . . . Forget cosmetics lets just talk about properly
sealed inserts and a smooth flat surface that plays true.

NIB isn't the highest bar . . . My NIB RFM came with multiple play and
cosmetic problems. :-) Restored by someone who knows what they are doing
and actually plays pinball is on top of "my" list . . .

My opinion . . . but based on lots of play and facts ;-)


--
Kerry Stair

Mantis Amusements "Its all about Pinball"


"Koz Pinlicious" <pinlicious@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120067395.452675.239520@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>i am not debating the LOOKS of the pin, i saw some of his work at expo.
> they look great.
>
> but to claim cabs with decals and decals in clearcoat are better than
> nib, sorry, i don't think it is opinion, i think it is fact that they
> can't be better than nib, not even equal. sorry :-)
>
> Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
>
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 6:27:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thanks Buddy.I have to admit that is the nicest FH I have ever done.Darin's
revised decals look excellent.
Hopefully I can find a way to put some pictures up.My old site is full.
--
Christopher Hutchins
www.highendpins.com

"sea girt" <buddybunch@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1120042842.615236.208540@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Just took delivery of Chris's FH from his new shop. Nos pf, new
> ramps,decals, plastics, the whole shootin match. It plays and looks
> better than NIB. Amazing. I can't put it next to any other pin because
> it makes them pale in comparison. Now on to the Creature. Can't wait.
> Thanks, Buddy
>
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 7:13:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Jun, Christopher Hutchins wrote:
> Thanks Buddy.I have to admit that is the nicest FH I have ever done.Darin's
> revised decals look excellent.
> Hopefully I can find a way to put some pictures up.My old site is full.

It better only be better than mine because of those decals! :) 


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 9:33:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Jun, Koz Pinlicious wrote:
> you gonna take a game that has been restored over a nib one? no-one
> would.

You're mistaking value for quality. Often times a restored game *is*
better than what the factory would have done by many actual *quality*
definitions.

Since those quality issues generally don't affect gameplay and since the
NIB game would be worth more, sure, 99.9% of us here would choose the NIB
game. But that doesn't mean our restored games can't still be of higher
quality.

But which "quality" issues each person even cares about can be different,
and your opinions aren't going to match everyone elses, so there's no
reason to argue those details.


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 4:41:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Kerry Stair Jun 29, 2:22 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: "Kerry Stair" <i...@mantisamusements.com> - Find messages by this
author
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:22:35 -0500
Local: Wed,Jun 29 2005 2:22 pm
Subject: Re: Chris Hutchins FH arrives from his new shop!
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So you're saying MXV's funhouse playfield isn't better then NIB then .
.. .

no, it isn't. i saw how it was before it had surgery ;-)

now if he had a nos non diamondplated pf cleared it by some peoples
definition MAY be better, but the one mike has in his game isn't better
than one that would be nib. heck, by your definition, just clearcoat
the nib playfield then you have trumped the old worn touched up one ;-)

I'm sorry but all the original diamond plated playfields are a very
poor
second to Bill's work . . .

i disagree. i'll gladly put up my nos taf playfield up against any
playfield you like. it was a sheet of glass from the factory. same goes
for my dp playfield in my fh. PERFECT. i'll gladly send you a pic or
let someone post it here. while most nos fields MAY look bad, that is
because some nos fields were 2nds, of not the majority of them, but you
knew that.

Forget cosmetics lets just talk about properly
sealed inserts and a smooth flat surface that plays true.

well, define PLAYS TRUE

do you mean PLAYS TRUE as in how pinballs have played from the factory,
or do you mean PLAYS TRUE by your definition of a clearcoated
playfield? are you talking em plays true? pre-diamondplate playing
true, or dp playing true, or post dp cc pf's playing true? true to how
they were meant to be played from the factory or plays true by your own
personal definition?


NIB isn't the highest bar . . .

but a polished up USED game is? i don't think so.

My NIB RFM came with multiple play and
cosmetic problems. :-)

are we talking rfm's? i thought we were talking fh. either way, the
game is irrelavent. the point is decals AREN'T better than factory
screen jobs. decals replacing decals is fine. i am sorry your rfm got
some plays on it from the factory, do you think it was more plays than
a routed fixer uper like the ones being polished up all the time? i
would say not even close.

Restored by someone who knows what they are doing
and actually plays pinball is on top of "my" list . . .

i am not bashing anyones work, but i am just wondering how you guys
think a touched up clearcoated used pf is better than a nib dp one. not
to mention the other 1k+ parts in the game ;-)

My opinion . . . but based on lots of play and facts ;-)

same here. i am glad bill does the work that he does as well as chris
and others, but you guys need a bite of reality pie when you say
polished up games are better than nib ones that are factory fresh. :-)

Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
(who thinks a game needs a lot more new parts than a cc pf, and
stickered up cab to be better than nib ;-)


--
Kerry Stair
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 4:49:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Donnie Barnes Jun 29, 1:33 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: Donnie Barnes <djbSPAMSU...@donniebarnes.com> - Find messages by
this author
Date: 29 Jun 2005 17:33:45 GMT
Local: Wed,Jun 29 2005 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: Chris Hutchins FH arrives from his new shop!
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original | Report Abuse



On Wed, 29 Jun, Koz Pinlicious wrote:
> you gonna take a game that has been restored over a nib one? no-one
> would.


You're mistaking value for quality.

no i am not, read below...

Often times a restored game *is*
better than what the factory would have done by many actual *quality*
definitions.

such as what donnie? tell me what you think a restorer could do better
than what the factory did besides putting a couple more coats of clear
on the playfield. clearcoating a nos playfield may in some peoples eyes
make THE PLAYFIELD better than nib, but what about the rest of a blown
out game. you going to put all new switches, wiring harness,
assemblies, and other high wear items on the restoration. if that is
the case, excuse me, but i don't recall anyone out there putting ALL
nos parts on a retro job. :-)

Since those quality issues generally don't affect gameplay and since
the
NIB game would be worth more, sure, 99.9% of us here would choose the
NIB
game. But that doesn't mean our restored games can't still be of
higher
quality.

i disagree, and like you said below, we can agree on that :-)

Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)

But which "quality" issues each person even cares about can be
different,
and your opinions aren't going to match everyone elses, so there's no
reason to argue those details.


--Donnie


--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 4:10:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I think you're all right : )

The "better than NIB" phrase is very general, can be interpreted in
many different ways and can therefore be debated indefinitely as can
many other topics. Some of Chris's customers have NIB machines and
still feel that the games Chris restored for them are "better".

If a pf and cab look new and are more durable than they were new from
the factory, but a magnet assembly is 15 years old compared to when it
was new from the factory, is the restored game "better" or is the NIB
game "better"? Certain parts of a game can be improved while others
cannot. I agree that a restored game cannot be 100% better than NIB.
But I also would likewise agree that a NIB game cannot be 100% better
than (in this case) a CH restoration. To state that it could, would be
to believe that no further improvement could have been made, which is
never the case in any process.

Everything changes when you start talking about extremely rare
collectible examples like Koz's FH. *Could* the pf be improved from a
durability stand point by clearing it? Maybe. *Should* it be touched?
No Way! Back to Donnies quality/value trade off.

I appreciate and will never knock a collectable original of anything,
but realize that it certainly *could* be further improved in certain
areas. But *could* does not mean *should*.

All that aside, anyone who has dealt with Chris, purchased a game from
him or even seen his games for that matter will all agree that they are
nothing short of spectacular - cosmetically and funtionally. Better
than NIB? You decide : )
June 30, 2005 8:34:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

KOZ,
How about putting up some Pictures,, "IF" you have any ??

Pin-Del, =)
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 8:39:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Decalled cabinets (except MB, CC, SWEP1, RFM) are just plain wrong.
Like the guy says, a blind man can tell its not orginal.

They might look pretty but they aren't, and never will be, original.

You can't restore any game to factory fresh condition, it's always so
so obvious when you've tried.
June 30, 2005 8:51:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I'd take a DP original over a restored game anyday as long as both are
in like new shape, The Thing is,, You dont see NIB Funhouses that are
DPed everyday ,, That why I asked to see Kozs,,

Pin-Del,
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 9:09:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Then what's the difference between a decal and the games that had the
white laminate applied and then silk- screened? It's all a big decal
to me. :-)

Bryan (CARGPB14) http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins

"Warning! Achtung! Run away, Run away!: BK restorations may emit a
shower of sparks or flames or both. Keep a safe distance (like four
city blocks). Never return to a restoration once lit. Hot hot hot!"

(Sig line compliments of Clive at the Coin-Op Cauldron.)




TopLoser wrote:
> Decalled cabinets (except MB, CC, SWEP1, RFM) are just plain wrong.
> Like the guy says, a blind man can tell its not orginal.
>
> They might look pretty but they aren't, and never will be, original.
>
> You can't restore any game to factory fresh condition, it's always so
> so obvious when you've tried.
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 9:27:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I would love to see the KOZ FH !
June 30, 2005 10:41:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Bryans Games look pretty Dayum good too !!

I could name 6-8 guys here who just plain do some of the most
"Detailed Work" I've ever seen ( Havent seen Kozs ) .
But I Envy you guys holding those Super nice games, Restored or NIBs
But looking at the Pictures John Hosted for Chris, All I can say is you
have to SEE it, Bryans & Daves to !.
A NIB FH is only what ? 14 years old, It would have to be very LOW
play,,, less than 200 games & those Factory parts do Dull.
Since I know I'll never see a NIB DPed FH, Those restored games are the
next best thing,,
What are ya'll going to call thise "New" BBBs Huh ?
Same difference <<< Loves using that =)

Pin-Del,
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 11:57:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

sure, i can post a pic or two. i think i have one handy before i
shopped it, so you are gonna see a little ugliness :-)

Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 12:16:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

who wants to host the pic? e-mail me if you would, i prefer someone who
can do a watermark so the image isn't used by potential scammers.

pic looks just ok, a pre shop pic, but you get the idea.

thanks

Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 1:46:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

thanks madmax, nice ride! :-)

Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 2:24:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On Thu, 30 Jun, Koz Pinlicious wrote:
> i am not bashing anyones work, but i am just wondering how you guys
> think a touched up clearcoated used pf is better than a nib dp one. not
> to mention the other 1k+ parts in the game ;-)

Correction, this game had an NOS clearcoated playfield, IIRC. Not a used
one.

> (who thinks a game needs a lot more new parts than a cc pf, and
> stickered up cab to be better than nib ;-)

I agree. But who said it didn't have every NOS part that could be found on
it? Or at least every part that gets touched by anything or moves. :) 


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 2:33:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On Thu, 30 Jun, Koz Pinlicious wrote:
> such as what donnie? tell me what you think a restorer could do better
> than what the factory did besides putting a couple more coats of clear
> on the playfield. clearcoating a nos playfield may in some peoples eyes
> make THE PLAYFIELD better than nib, but what about the rest of a blown
> out game. you going to put all new switches, wiring harness,
> assemblies, and other high wear items on the restoration. if that is
> the case, excuse me, but i don't recall anyone out there putting ALL
> nos parts on a retro job. :-)

You don't need new harnesses, you just clean what is there. As for wear
items, yeah, on my game it was all replaced. New plastics, new ramps, new
playfield. Better paint job than the factory did originally. Upgrades
that the factory never knew they needed (protectors) as well as some parts
that are now stronger because the factory decided they needed to (flipper
pawls and the like).

The *only* knock you can make on my game, IMHO, over a NIB game is that the
NIB game would have had a screened cab. I swear, though, you REALLY have
to be trying to tell if it's stickers versus screen with what Chris does to
apply the stickers. I'm really not kidding. The *LOOK* of the cabinet
will be better than 99% of the games that came out of the box, I guarantee
it.

So while NIB is still WORTH a bit more, this game looks better in EVERY
way. More polished parts on the playfield, upgrades that keep ramps from
breaking the first time a ball hits the wrong spot, a nicer playfield, a
cabinet that is baby-butt-smooth, and moving parts that are often stronger
than what was originally put on games in 1991 or whatever.

Would I trade it for a NIB game? Sure. But mine is still better looking.
:) 


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 3:43:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Here ya go Koz: http://www.someotherplace.com/kozfhpf.jpg

Richard

On 30 Jun 2005 20:16:19 -0700, "Koz Pinlicious" <pinlicious@gmail.com> wrote:

>who wants to host the pic? e-mail me if you would, i prefer someone who
>can do a watermark so the image isn't used by potential scammers.
>
>pic looks just ok, a pre shop pic, but you get the idea.
>
>thanks
>
>Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 4:18:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

And I share that opinion.

(Actually it extends beyond that...)

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************


"Koz Pinlicious" <pinlicious@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1120117277.319979.53030@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> i am not bashing anyones work, but i am just wondering how you guys
> think a touched up clearcoated used pf is better than a nib dp one. not
> to mention the other 1k+ parts in the game ;-)
>
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 8:24:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On Fri, 01 Jul, Koz Pinlicious wrote:
> hmm, who had the booth behind the tourny games? there was a fh in that
> bank of games i believe.

Don't think it was Chris, but I wasn't there.

> what, are you chroming parts now? what metal parts look bad coming from
> the factory that you need to make them somehow look better?

I didn't say they were bad, just that they *can* be better.

> can we stick to what came from the factory then and not how you turn a
> game into a tank?

No, because the factory didn't always get it right. That's why James'
ramps are *better* than factory ramps. We now have access to better
plastics than they had then, for one thing.

>> Come on. Darin's decals are screened, too.
>
> so are they smooth or aren't they smooth?

I was talking about the *wood*, not the texture of the screening. Sure,
that'll exist. But with many factory games you could feel the damned
woodgrain underneath, if not *see* it. Well, in fact.

>> You haven't seen it so you can't really say. *shrug*
>
> i guess. you must have a game that is the exception then to get such
> praise.

There aren't that many *real* restorations out there. A few people on this
group appear to do them right, but not very many.

> Yeah, nobody would ever clean molex pins and connectors in a
> restoration job. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.
>
> how do you get rid of that yellowing? you know, that baked in goodness
> ;-)

In a first class restoration you'd change any molex connector that was
yellow since it needs new pins anyway (if it got hot enough to yellow the
connector the pins are bad) and changing the plastic part is *easy* at that
point.

> hmm, again i ask, who had a booth behind the tourny games at expo?

You tell me, hotshot.

> i guess i have never seen a turd polished to a very good "D" IF grade
> then. is that the definition of -properly restored-? i usually try to
> avoid the games that need that kind of attention.

Who said anything about the starting condition? In fact, starting
condition is completely irrelevant.

All I know is I have a game that has a *lot* of features that make it
"better" than what came out of the box originally for a FH. The decals are
much more resistant to fading since they have a better UV protectant than
the original cabinets did. The ramps are made of better plastic, as are
the new plastic sets. The clearcoat on the playfield is much better and
should keep those damned inserts from lifting like pretty much every other
Funhouse on the planet. Things like flipper bats and endlinks and likely
even bushings are made with better plastics. Coil stops are heavier duty,
as are pawls. Bumper bodies are heavier duty. Bumper rings are even made
better now, IIRC. While not original in look, the pinLED displays will
last forever.

So no, it's not as collectible as a NIB FH, but it will play better and
look better for much longer than the NIB one would with the same plays. To
me, that's better.


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.
!