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Nascar playfield layout ?

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Anonymous
June 30, 2005 11:08:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I've been staring at the Nascar picture for too long and start to see
ghosts..
When I start to draw it and what I think could be there, and how the
shot layout is, some things just don't make sense.

I can't wait for more info or more pictures (whats on the right and in
the back ?) but we can all guess..

What's on the playfield:

- a metal racetrack going all around, at least 2 magnets at the bottom
left,
maybe 1 or 2 more at the top right ??
You can see an opto at the magnets which seems to indicate pinballs
travel counter-clockwise. Entrance or exits of the racetrack are
unknown ?

- flippers and outlane plastics are higher up on the playfield than
usual to accomodate the thick magnets

- left outlane: 1st thing which doesn't make sense to me - doesn't seem
to be there, no room because the magnets are there ? But still there's
the regular shaped plastic ?? Unless the ball rolls down underneath
that top opto but then it could collide with balls on the circuit ?

- at the totally left side of the pf (left of the magnets) there's a
blue box ? photoshop error or is it some kind of launch lane, so you
have 2 lanes on the left side ?? although the orange sign with the
finish flag seems to indicate 2 lanes (with 2 leds on this board ?)
Although that doesn't make much sense..

- left above the slingshot we have a saucer lane like on
MB/NBA/Sopranos.
If balls go counter clockwise they can enter here: you shoot the lane
(saucer ?), underneath the blue/white plastic. The ball gets kicked out
to the left, rolls down towards the magnets.
Explains then the position of the magnets. Also why the 2 pointed
inserts are there ?


Question then is how the racetrack is used and how balls are locked in
the game. Doesn't it physically 'lock' them but do you lock them on the
racetrack ? GP flyer text says 'Collect three balls in the loop' - so
once a ball is locked it keeps on going around during gameplay, you add
a second which keeps on going round, and when the 3rd ball is locked
they get released somewhere for multiball ? So not like Getaway where
balls are kicked into the supercharger and only go round for a few
seconds, but really balls can go around for a long time whilst you are
playing and trying to lock another ball ??

Sounds weird to me.. so then it is just a saucer like MB/Sopranos and
balls are locked somewhere else on the pf and launched into the
racetrack.

- left side higher up is a lane with a spinner. Either this stops balls
in the end (ie Bobs shop in RS) or it's a loops all around the
playfield ?
I guess it loops around, nascar/gp is a fast theme so you need to have
loops.

- next to that is a plastic ramp which goes through the truck - seems
to continue to the right into this metal ramp above the playfield ?
Yellow targets at the entrance.

This metal ramp in the back middle of the playfield bothers me.
Is it part of the racetrack or does that go underneath this ramp ?
I guess it's the last and this metal ramp continues from the left
plastic ramp ?

- the truck seems to be above the playfield. I first thought it was to
hide magnets but this is probably wrong. Maybe pop bumpers are
underneath it ? There's looks to be a red bumper underneath the trucks
cabin ?
If there are bumpers, how does the ball enter them ? That left loop
with spinner ? I don't think so as it would stop and turn the ball too
sharp and you need that to be a loop.
>From when you launch the ball ? Maybe, there's a yellow part of
playfield (just visible right of the truck front, between the ramps),
but then you'd expect rollover lanes - which can't be there: no room
and you don't see them because the truck blocks sight. So no pop
bumpers there then ? Then what's there ???

- Center then: a car on top of 2 yellow targets and left of them what
seems to be a black scoop ?
Flyer text says bang the car with the pinball - so it maybe moves when
you hit those yellow targets ? Car is too high up to hit it with the
pinball itself.

The scoop wonder me - if balls get ejected from here then a high risk
to drain, so it's only an entry ? To what ? A small scoop so far back
on the pf ?? Looks difficult to shoot into ?

- Other thing which doesn't make sense at all to me: between the
plastic ramp and the car (scoop) there's a part of blue playfield with
a white rubber on each corner (corner of ramp and corner next to scoop
under car).
Due to the angle of the picture it's difficult to see but it looks very
small, and you see plain wood underneath the ramp ?
Plastic ramps are always protected at their sides so they don't break.
Here's no protecion ? A rubber which will go between these 2 posts
doesn't make much sense. It can't be an entry because then you would
break the ramp because you shoot it too hard, and the angle is almost
impossible to shoot (except maybe from the right flipper). And if it's
an exit (from the pop bumpers ?) then I think you have a high risk of
draining as it's in the center (and you would have a metal plate to
guide the ball next to the plastic ramp ?)

- Right of the 2 yellow car targets seems to be another ramp more in
the back of the pf. Left turn followed by a sharp right turn. Seems to
continue in the metal ramp talked about above ? Also 2 wireramps start
in that area which go to each flipper. So either the 2 ramps are
seperate and each end in a wireframe, or, what I suspect more (as done
on RS and FH): they end in 1 ramp and there's a diverter on it to let
the ball go to the left or right wireframe, depending on what shot you
need to make.


- the whole right side.. not much we can see from it.
I don't think there's an upper flipper as there's nothing to shoot at
on the left side ?
How are balls brought from the racetrack onto the playfield ? You can't
launch them around very fast, and then stop them somewhere in the back
and have them roll slowly through i.e. this left spinner lane ? But
with an open layout you also can't just launch balls onto it without
aiming them at something ?
Unless they get onto the wireramps or so ?

If there are no bumpers behind the car/truck then where are they ?
Right corner ? Mr Lawlor will include bumpers somewhere..


- Rules then - in the middle 10 inserts in a circle, similar to No
Fear, to show the modes ?
Above that 'race' is spelled. First I thought you'd need to get race
for multiball but as that's only 3 and not 4 balls, race is used for
something else.
Other inserts on the pf are to the left spinner lane, the left ramp,
and probably 2 on the right to so their use can be similar to MM: make
each shot x times and then a letter of race lits (as you would lit your
madness modes).
So that would only indicate 4 major shots in this fan layout ??

Or 'race' indicates your progress towards the wizard mode, as on
theatre of magic, get R if you do X, A if you finish all y, .. ? I
guess not, it's probably the previous ?
4 shots to spell 'race' (and start multiball if balls are locked
somewhere ?) and the other shots (targets, ramps, car) are used in
other modes ?


OK that's what I make of the playfield picture.
Comments anyone ? Where am I wrong ?

Aeneas.
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 11:53:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Multi-ball locks could stack right in the loop waiting to be released,
no need for them to have to be going around and around all the time.
It's hard to draw many firm conclusions when you are looking at a
partical view of an incomplete design.
Terry.
June 30, 2005 12:14:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Heh heh, I just had another one of those weird pinball dreams last
night after too much wine, was in some goofy noisy arcade and they had
a couple of pins, was looking for the latest Stern and found one but
just turned out to be a High Roller Casino or something like
that...maybe tonight I will continue the dream and finally find NASCAR!

Another thing that runs thru my pinball dreams is that none of the
playfields in them are existing ones, my brain just sort of makes them
up... sometimes it might be based on a real machine, or seems familiar,
but it's always changed around, the playfield is extra long like a
shuffle alley, an EM is now digital, stuff like that.
Frenchy
Related resources
June 30, 2005 1:46:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Locked Balls (for MultiBall) continuously circling the PF via the Race
Track - now that is UNIQUE. I believe that would be a first - we may
have to come up with a new term as the balls won't really be "locked"
(as in stationary). This wouldn't be the first time that PatL
introduced something to the PF which generated a new term - can you say
"CELLAR".

That would be cool feature and definately would go with Gary Stern's
concept of "things in motion" as feedback to the Player.

There is "something" going on with that big ole truck hauler - its too
big to "not" do anything and it did get mentioned in the press
released...now we just gotta wait until the game is released to find
out.

I think they wussed out on the graphics - they should have been
controversial and done something along the lines of putting both #3 &
#8 cars on the game OR #24 and #20.
Later
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 3:08:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

scott@farrar.com wrote:
> Locked Balls (for MultiBall) continuously circling the PF via the Race
> Track - now that is UNIQUE. I believe that would be a first - we may
> have to come up with a new term as the balls won't really be "locked"
> (as in stationary). This wouldn't be the first time that PatL
> introduced something to the PF which generated a new term - can you say
> "CELLAR".

I can only imagine what this is going to do the playfield, considering
one game on a virgin Stern game produces a million dimples. What is a
couple balls on the same trail several thousand times a day going to
do?

Can't wait to be the proud owner/operator of a game where the ball got
stuck and the "locked" ball did a few hunder thousand loops. Hopefully
there will be some software to prevent this from happening.

> I think they wussed out on the graphics - they should have been
> controversial and done something along the lines of putting both #3 &
> #8 cars on the game OR #24 and #20.

It's all about money. It would cost a freaking boatload to get Dale [Sr
or Jr] on the game. Same for the Gordon or Stewart.

Personally, I'm glad it's not either Dale or Gordon. While they _are_
much more marketable, I hate them with a passion :) 

bob
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 5:23:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

The ramp and habitrails look like TAF if you flipped the picture over. LTG
:) 

"Aeneas Verhe" <averhe@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120140491.429701.66240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I've been staring at the Nascar picture for too long and start to see
> ghosts..
> When I start to draw it and what I think could be there, and how the
> shot layout is, some things just don't make sense.
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 5:25:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

scott@farrar.com wrote:
> Locked Balls (for MultiBall) continuously circling the PF via the Race
> Track - now that is UNIQUE. I believe that would be a first - we may
> have to come up with a new term as the balls won't really be "locked"
> (as in stationary). This wouldn't be the first time that PatL
> introduced something to the PF which generated a new term - can you say
> "CELLAR".

Well, rollergames didn't have a "stationary" lock (although the balls
didn't circumnavigate the playfield).

I seem to remember Larry DeMar talking at Expo about a WMS pinball that
never got past the conceptual phase, where the balls would circle the
playfield propelled by supercharger magnets. I think the theme for
this game involved a runaway train.

If the balls are continually circling the playfield, what happens in
the case of a collision with a locked ball and a ball draining between
the flippers? Interesting...

steve
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 9:53:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Certainly not up to the standards we've seen in the past. I'm looking
forward to the Grand Prix version, which will have different artwork
and artist (plus Nascar doesn't do much for me).
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 10:38:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On 30 Jun 2005 07:53:16 -0700, pinballlife@speakeasy.net wrote:

>It's hard to draw many firm conclusions when you are looking at a
>partical view of an incomplete design.
>Terry.

I know, but it's interesting / fun to see what could be possible and
then if more info about the game is known to see how things exactly
work.

Aeneas.
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 11:38:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I'm not a patent attorney but wouldn't there be a design patent on file
with the patent office? Maybe some attorney on this RGP can say
whether there isn't a way to get a preview of the entire game by just
pulling up the patent documents. If so maybe that same attorney can
tell us if it is legal or not to then post the diagrams as well as the
written descriptions.
I guess there must be a flaw in my thoughts here since I would think
that someone had considered that a long time ago and well before I ever
came onto the RGP.

Bob
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 3:27:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"pinsane" <nospam4me2day@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120163115.980484.164100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> scott@farrar.com wrote:

> If the balls are continually circling the playfield, what happens in
> the case of a collision with a locked ball and a ball draining between
> the flippers? Interesting...

A free ball save
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 4:24:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

No, the yellow comes out...!

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************

"Joe Blasi" <Jblasi@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:D d%we.17817$GH6.6281@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "pinsane" <nospam4me2day@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1120163115.980484.164100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > scott@farrar.com wrote:
>
> > If the balls are continually circling the playfield, what happens in
> > the case of a collision with a locked ball and a ball draining between
> > the flippers? Interesting...
>
> A free ball save
>
>
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 7:59:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

my feelin is that if these are marketed towards Europeas GranPrix and most
games are exported, the NASCAR is already shortchanged. Like a second
thought. Oh yeah we'll change the artwork. woopeeeee.
I love Nascar. Heck it's the only 'sport' I enjoy on TV. So naturally I'm
stoked about this. Till I saw the PF busy and as of yet incomplete. times
ticking, don't shortchange it.
I understand not going for the big money licence 'Earnhart" no 8 but It's
gotta be there for the appeal.

I do like the Pole on the side of the head great touch, the lower cab is OK
to good.
Timathie
"qfrost" <qfrost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120179183.346011.33660@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Certainly not up to the standards we've seen in the past. I'm looking
> forward to the Grand Prix version, which will have different artwork
> and artist (plus Nascar doesn't do much for me).
>
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 10:14:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Now THAT would be cool...

-Mark

"Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
news:D a2k3u02gfe@enews3.newsguy.com...
> No, the yellow comes out...!
>
> --
> Fred
> TX
> CARGPB#8
> ******************
>
> "Joe Blasi" <Jblasi@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:D d%we.17817$GH6.6281@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "pinsane" <nospam4me2day@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1120163115.980484.164100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > scott@farrar.com wrote:
>>
>> > If the balls are continually circling the playfield, what happens in
>> > the case of a collision with a locked ball and a ball draining between
>> > the flippers? Interesting...
>>
>> A free ball save
>>
>>
>
>
July 1, 2005 11:31:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Wasn't there a REAL old 30's marble game where when you shot the ball,
it did a full playfield orbit?
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 5:57:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

In article <1120185483.920990.64500@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Bob Rentzer <lawcal@lawcal.com> wrote:
>I'm not a patent attorney but wouldn't there be a design patent on file
>with the patent office?

Nope. As the WMS vs. DE lawsuit in the early 90's showed, a playfield
layout can't be patented or copyrighted as a unit. Individual devices
might be patented, but those apps won't show up until usually after the
game has gone on test. If you check the language in the manual and with
the game, it should cover the "additional patents pending" case.

Orin

--
Orin Day | Women's Basketball Photos at http://www.dwhoops.com
lobster @ |
lobsterdevil | no quote today
.com |
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 6:00:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

In article <1120163115.980484.164100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
pinsane <nospam4me2day@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I seem to remember Larry DeMar talking at Expo about a WMS pinball that
>never got past the conceptual phase, where the balls would circle the
>playfield propelled by supercharger magnets. I think the theme for
>this game involved a runaway train.

A layout with a raised train for Tim Seckel's Under Siege 2 (which never
made it past a hack & whack whitewood stage) comes to mind as well. That
production slot ended up being Apollo 13, which was eventually designed by
others.

--
Orin Day | Women's Basketball Photos at http://www.dwhoops.com
lobster @ |
lobsterdevil | no quote today
.com |
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 12:15:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Looks like Pat Lawlor kind of answered as there's another picture on
his website:
http://www.patlawlordesign.com/nascar.jpg
(thanks Jonathan for bringing it up)

The center car is similar to AFM: it moves down, level with the
playfield so you can hit it.

Between the flippers there's a scoop through which the ball leaves the
playfield (so it doesn't interfere with the racetrack).

That metal ramp in the back is gone ? or black ?
I guess it wasn't a seperate ramp but just the racetrack in the back.
So the plastic ramp will I guess drop the ball between the bumpers or
put it on the racetrack maybe ? (and do a U-turn)

And yes, there seem to be pop bumpers in the back, behind the car.

Aeneas.
-- http://www.flippers.be
!