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NAVL shipping disaster and follow-up

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Anonymous
July 1, 2005 1:23:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I bought a super nice Strange Science from Todd at TNT, and NAVL had the bad
taste to drop it off of a forklift. Now I specifically had Todd ship me the
game with the legs *on* because NAVL's own rules forbid them from picking up
a pinball with a forklift unless it's on a pallet.

The only real damage they've ever done to a pin of mine in the past (of
about 30 games they've shipped for me) is when a game was on a pallet, they
smashed it with a forklift. It was wrapped, so the damage wasn't apparent
until after they delivered the game and we opened it.

Well the guy moving my legs-on Strange Sci into the truck that day got lazy
and picked it up with the forks anyway -- and then dropped it onto its side.
The cabinet and especially the head are obviously beat up, but I think the
rest of it (except the p/f glass) may have come thru okay -- I don't know
because I couldn't give it a close exam. But I know that it had a great p/f
and great ramps, and I'm sure the boards etc. are probably okay, and the
topper still looks perfect.

To their credit, NAVL fired the guy the next day (my regular driver gave me
the story) and the insurance paid off 100% of what I paid for it within a
week (which was a lot, due to the condition), no questions asked. I made
them an offer on the salvage value and they took me up on that too, so if
the playfield survived and the topper still works etc. at least I've got the
guts to a super nice example.

Anyway time will tell if my salvage offer was smart or not, but in any event
I wanted to pass on the story and let the group know that a) I still think
shipping them via NAVL on their legs is the best bet, because they have to
move them by hand (especially now - they made a big stink about it
internally), and b) if they do damage your game, they pay the insurance
claim quickly and painlessly. They didn't even ask if I'd get a repair
estimate, because I told them I didn't want a repaired game any more than
I'd want a car that had been wrecked and repaired.

I've found Pilot Air and Forward Air to be a huge pain in the butt compared
to NAVL, and you can't beat their customer service.

Randy
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 1:30:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I have had 2 games shipped ON LEGS

both got here perfectly

have not had as much luck with the games when they are packed on their
backsides

I really think legs is the way to go oddly enough

gary

Randy P. wrote:
> I bought a super nice Strange Science from Todd at TNT, and NAVL had the bad
> taste to drop it off of a forklift. Now I specifically had Todd ship me the
> game with the legs *on* because NAVL's own rules forbid them from picking up
> a pinball with a forklift unless it's on a pallet.
>
> The only real damage they've ever done to a pin of mine in the past (of
> about 30 games they've shipped for me) is when a game was on a pallet, they
> smashed it with a forklift. It was wrapped, so the damage wasn't apparent
> until after they delivered the game and we opened it.
>
> Well the guy moving my legs-on Strange Sci into the truck that day got lazy
> and picked it up with the forks anyway -- and then dropped it onto its side.
> The cabinet and especially the head are obviously beat up, but I think the
> rest of it (except the p/f glass) may have come thru okay -- I don't know
> because I couldn't give it a close exam. But I know that it had a great p/f
> and great ramps, and I'm sure the boards etc. are probably okay, and the
> topper still looks perfect.
>
> To their credit, NAVL fired the guy the next day (my regular driver gave me
> the story) and the insurance paid off 100% of what I paid for it within a
> week (which was a lot, due to the condition), no questions asked. I made
> them an offer on the salvage value and they took me up on that too, so if
> the playfield survived and the topper still works etc. at least I've got the
> guts to a super nice example.
>
> Anyway time will tell if my salvage offer was smart or not, but in any event
> I wanted to pass on the story and let the group know that a) I still think
> shipping them via NAVL on their legs is the best bet, because they have to
> move them by hand (especially now - they made a big stink about it
> internally), and b) if they do damage your game, they pay the insurance
> claim quickly and painlessly. They didn't even ask if I'd get a repair
> estimate, because I told them I didn't want a repaired game any more than
> I'd want a car that had been wrecked and repaired.
>
> I've found Pilot Air and Forward Air to be a huge pain in the butt compared
> to NAVL, and you can't beat their customer service.
>
> Randy
July 1, 2005 1:41:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

For once I agree with Gary. Legs on is a good way to go. Fold the
head down. Cover with layers of blankets, plastic and cardboard. NAVL
puts it in the truck and straps it to the side. No problems. I have a
forklift hole in the side of my ST*TNG to convince me that I don't want
any frappin' forklifts near my machines. Pinskates to and from my
garage with the legs on - from now on.

John
Related resources
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 3:51:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>NAVL's own rules forbid them from picking up
>a pinball with a forklift unless it's on a pallet.

If I ever ship a pinball again I am going to get a double pallet, cover
the entire thing in shipping blankets and cling wrap, and lay botom
down on the double pallet with straps.

I have also had good luck with the pinball standing upright on a pallet
with tiedowns totally wrapped. Same thing for an Asteroids.

Kirb
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 3:57:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Did you guys even read the first post? It FELL OVER. That's the kind of
thing that can happen to a pin on its legs. Doesn't seem to be a good
idea to me at all.


PT wrote:
> For once I agree with Gary. Legs on is a good way to go. Fold the
> head down. Cover with layers of blankets, plastic and cardboard. NAVL
> puts it in the truck and straps it to the side. No problems. I have a
> forklift hole in the side of my ST*TNG to convince me that I don't want
> any frappin' forklifts near my machines. Pinskates to and from my
> garage with the legs on - from now on.
>
> John
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 4:08:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It didn't exactly fall over. He had it on the forks and he stopped too fast
and it slid off and landed on its side.

Unless they break their own (NAVL) rules, which will get them fired, this
won't happen.

Randy

"ldnayman" <ldnayman@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1120244227.314541.243840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Did you guys even read the first post? It FELL OVER. That's the kind of
> thing that can happen to a pin on its legs. Doesn't seem to be a good
> idea to me at all.
>
>
> PT wrote:
>> For once I agree with Gary. Legs on is a good way to go. Fold the
>> head down. Cover with layers of blankets, plastic and cardboard. NAVL
>> puts it in the truck and straps it to the side. No problems. I have a
>> forklift hole in the side of my ST*TNG to convince me that I don't want
>> any frappin' forklifts near my machines. Pinskates to and from my
>> garage with the legs on - from now on.
>>
>> John
>
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 4:29:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

kirb wrote:
> >NAVL's own rules forbid them from picking up
> >a pinball with a forklift unless it's on a pallet.
>
> If I ever ship a pinball again I am going to get a double pallet, cover
> the entire thing in shipping blankets and cling wrap, and lay botom
> down on the double pallet with straps.
>
> I have also had good luck with the pinball standing upright on a pallet
> with tiedowns totally wrapped. Same thing for an Asteroids.
>
> Kirb

Kirb, Just to let you know, I thought the best way was exactly as
above. Double pallet , wrapped, more wrapped and on its bottom. Well
with a game like this now it becomes a "perfect table". It gets loaded
first into trucks and all else goes on top. I had two games I did this
with and in both cases smashed lower cabinets because things of larger
weight went on top. Glass, metal, broken ramps, compressed head,
smashed corners. Just to let you know I have had terrible luck with
this method. With a pinball on its bottom, a great lower base for
stacking on top of.

Bill
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 4:36:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I used to drive a fork, it is really, really really easy to "spear"
cargo with the fork. Usually it happend when you are trying to maneuver
the forklift in tight quarters, and you spear somehting near the object
you are trying to pick up. Shipping on its legs would be the best idea,
because they should stay the heck away with the forks after this
incident.
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 5:06:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Reminds me of the protective equipment debate in football and hockey.
Does more/better equipment result in fewer, less servere injuries? My
understanding is that it results in certain, MORE severe injuries.
Reason being, players now hit harder and acted more aggressively with
better equipment.

Picture a forklift driver heading toward a carboard wrapped, palleted
pin doing 30 MPH screaming YEE-HAW!!

I can see them being more careful if the pin is set up on it's legs. I
can also picture them sliding the pin around instead of lifting it.
Not sure I'd like what that will do to the cabinet.

Personally, if the pin were mine and of some value, I would request a
totally enclosed wood crate with the pin on it's bottom instead of
back.


Bryan (CARGPB14) http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins

"Warning! Achtung! Run away, Run away!: BK restorations may emit a
shower of sparks or flames or both. Keep a safe distance (like four
city blocks). Never return to a restoration once lit. Hot hot hot!"

(Sig line compliments of Clive at the Coin-Op Cauldron.)





Randy P. wrote:
> It didn't exactly fall over. He had it on the forks and he stopped too fast
> and it slid off and landed on its side.
>
> Unless they break their own (NAVL) rules, which will get them fired, this
> won't happen.
>
> Randy
>
> "ldnayman" <ldnayman@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1120244227.314541.243840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Did you guys even read the first post? It FELL OVER. That's the kind of
> > thing that can happen to a pin on its legs. Doesn't seem to be a good
> > idea to me at all.
> >
> >
> > PT wrote:
> >> For once I agree with Gary. Legs on is a good way to go. Fold the
> >> head down. Cover with layers of blankets, plastic and cardboard. NAVL
> >> puts it in the truck and straps it to the side. No problems. I have a
> >> forklift hole in the side of my ST*TNG to convince me that I don't want
> >> any frappin' forklifts near my machines. Pinskates to and from my
> >> garage with the legs on - from now on.
> >>
> >> John
> >
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 5:48:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Still I think it's funny that a thread that starts with "I shipped the
pin on its legs and it got messed up" ends with everyone concluding the
best way to ship a pin is on its legs.

Randy P. wrote:
> It didn't exactly fall over. He had it on the forks and he stopped too fast
> and it slid off and landed on its side.
>
> Unless they break their own (NAVL) rules, which will get them fired, this
> won't happen.
>
> Randy
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 6:27:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On the other hand I think I got REAL lucky with my Star Wars cab. It was
sitting flat on a pallet, hanging over and not strapped in any way. It
came from St Louis to California via Pilot Air without a scratch!!!

kirb wrote:
>>NAVL's own rules forbid them from picking up
>>a pinball with a forklift unless it's on a pallet.
>
>
> If I ever ship a pinball again I am going to get a double pallet, cover
> the entire thing in shipping blankets and cling wrap, and lay botom
> down on the double pallet with straps.
>
> I have also had good luck with the pinball standing upright on a pallet
> with tiedowns totally wrapped. Same thing for an Asteroids.
>
> Kirb
>

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 6:43:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

NAVL will tell ya' to ship them with the legs on... being they won't
loose the legs that way. They were built to be moved standing on end,
the glass is less prone to breaking that way also. I shipp them
folded, shrink wrapped, with the legs and other small items in another
box. No major problems yet.

zTim
July 1, 2005 8:20:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I've shipped some really good games with the Legs on & I've been lucky
& no problems, Head folded, shrink wraped, Carboarded & shrink wrapped
again.
The driver who picks my games up said leaving the legs on was a
sure-fire way to get it "Forked" as in this case, A Lazy worker used
the fork-lift & it costed them !!
Insure the heck out of it & I put signs on mine that say "Do not use
fork-lift" ,,, UNVLs should buy a few pin-Dollys or skates
so these games dont get busted,,,But I've also seen
Dry-Rotted games you couldnt pay me to move on those trucks.

Pin-Del,
July 2, 2005 1:08:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I just arranged NAVL shipping on an EM Night Rider I'm bringing to
California from Pennsylvania. The pin is at the home of the seller's
friend, and as far as I know it's sitting there in a garage with the
legs on. What would you NAVL vets advise is the best way to have the
game shipped? What does NAVL typically do in a situation like this? Do
they take off the legs? Fold the head down and strap it to the body?
Just wrap it in blankets on the legs and strap it to the side of the
truck? Should I have the seller's friend tell the driver to put a NO
FORKLIFT sign on it?

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated? The pickup date is 7/6, with
an ETA here of 7/13. Michelle Bianchi was great helping st up the
arrangements.

Mike


In article <1120248410.464349.63190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Bryan Kelly" <bskelly3@aol.com> wrote:

> Reminds me of the protective equipment debate in football and hockey.
> Does more/better equipment result in fewer, less servere injuries? My
> understanding is that it results in certain, MORE severe injuries.
> Reason being, players now hit harder and acted more aggressively with
> better equipment.
>
> Picture a forklift driver heading toward a carboard wrapped, palleted
> pin doing 30 MPH screaming YEE-HAW!!
>
> I can see them being more careful if the pin is set up on it's legs. I
> can also picture them sliding the pin around instead of lifting it.
> Not sure I'd like what that will do to the cabinet.
>
> Personally, if the pin were mine and of some value, I would request a
> totally enclosed wood crate with the pin on it's bottom instead of
> back.
>
>
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 12:00:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I've had EMs shipped with the head up as well as down, but down and strapped
to the body is probably best (with thick cardboard to protect the rails.)
NAVL won't remove the legs, and I don't suggest you do either unless it's
gonna be crated. Others will differ in that opinion, and there is risk no
matter how you ship it.

I think the "NO FORKLIFT" sign on each side is a great idea ;-)

Randy

"MD" <pilgarlic@MUNGEcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:p ilgarlic-A23F77.21082501072005@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
>I just arranged NAVL shipping on an EM Night Rider I'm bringing to
> California from Pennsylvania. The pin is at the home of the seller's
> friend, and as far as I know it's sitting there in a garage with the
> legs on. What would you NAVL vets advise is the best way to have the
> game shipped? What does NAVL typically do in a situation like this? Do
> they take off the legs? Fold the head down and strap it to the body?
> Just wrap it in blankets on the legs and strap it to the side of the
> truck? Should I have the seller's friend tell the driver to put a NO
> FORKLIFT sign on it?
>
> Any and all advice is greatly appreciated? The pickup date is 7/6, with
> an ETA here of 7/13. Michelle Bianchi was great helping st up the
> arrangements.
>
> Mike
>
>
> In article <1120248410.464349.63190@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Bryan Kelly" <bskelly3@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Reminds me of the protective equipment debate in football and hockey.
>> Does more/better equipment result in fewer, less servere injuries? My
>> understanding is that it results in certain, MORE severe injuries.
>> Reason being, players now hit harder and acted more aggressively with
>> better equipment.
>>
>> Picture a forklift driver heading toward a carboard wrapped, palleted
>> pin doing 30 MPH screaming YEE-HAW!!
>>
>> I can see them being more careful if the pin is set up on it's legs. I
>> can also picture them sliding the pin around instead of lifting it.
>> Not sure I'd like what that will do to the cabinet.
>>
>> Personally, if the pin were mine and of some value, I would request a
>> totally enclosed wood crate with the pin on it's bottom instead of
>> back.
>>
>>
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 12:01:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Legs on, BAD BAD IDEA!!!!! NAVL has probably shipped at least 50
machines to my home.I recently have had my 3rd claim with them.ALL
because of shipping with the legs on.1st one was an Egg Head. The legs
were colapsed and the machine was on its side when we opened the
door.2nd The Treasure Cove 60 Baseball Deluxe. Shipped with legs on and
they colapsed. Not much damage but heart breaking just the same. Just
ask Allen.He also ships with the legs off now. Than the 3rd was a Rare
Gottlieb Gold Strike add a ball .Legs on and the machine fell over and
ripped the wedge head off, broke 1 leg totally off.With the wood still
attached.They destroyed a 1 of 600 machines made.Fine,they'le pay for
the machine.So what.Find me another Gold Strike in the same mint
condition mine was before they fu#%ed it up! All of the other
machines,on a pallet and wrapped.All delivered PERFECTLY.The moral of
this story: TAKE OFF THE LEGS! Don't be lazy.Michelle Bianci at NAVL
will also tell you the same. Good luck,Walt
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 2:41:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

waltr@sirus.com wrote:

> Legs on, BAD BAD IDEA!!!!!
> I recently have had my 3rd claim with them. ALL
> because of shipping with the legs on. The legs
> were colapsed and the machine was on its side

I just received three blanket-wrapped games yesterday via NAVL. A
thousand miles on their backs without a nick or a scratch, and the
shipping came to only $145 per game! I would never have had them
shipped with the legs on, even though it might have reduced the risk of
forking. To me, the bigger risk is what Walt described above: losing a
leg in transit and having the game collapse. I've seen too many
stripped leg bolts to ignore that possibility, and a three-legged,
275-lb. pinball machine can't be very stable.

The games I received were TAF, IJ, ST:TNG. They were route games that
are going to need some lovin', but they will all clean up nicely. I'm
stoked! Up until now, my collection hasn't included any Bally/Wms. dmd
games other than HSII. I only played TAF once -- ten years ago -- and
I've never played IJ or ST:TNG at all. Somehow, I get the feeling
these big boys are going to provide a whole different playing
experience than my skinny, early SS games, or my dumb, pretty EMs.
Thanks, Dave Wagler!

- Josh A.
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 6:37:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Agreed, very very bad idea. The game now becomes top heavy and can easily
get away from the movers in loading off the truck or up steps, whatever.
Also, most pins with the game's head on will not fit through the door and
angling a fully assembled pin just begs for trouble. You'll have to remove
the door most likely in this scenario, making extra work.

I remember when I bought my Neptune EM from a seller in VT a few years ago.
I was so glad I called and asked about breaking down the pin. He had no
idea what I was talking about. He was going to just leave it as is for NAVL
and as you know, there were less than 300 of these pins, one of the last
Gottlieb EM's. Good luck finding a backglass for this.

On the positive side, every pin I received through North American was
received without a scratch, left in the back yard, covered in a giant tarp I
have, in case of a stray storm coming through while I was at work. I think
I've had 4 shipped here through them, and maybe 2 shipped out through North
American. The key is to make sure the seller wraps the game well and you
should be fine.

Pingeek
http://www.pingeek.com Pinball dvd's for sale

"Josh A." <josh489@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120326065.989137.173470@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> waltr@sirus.com wrote:
>
>> Legs on, BAD BAD IDEA!!!!!
>> I recently have had my 3rd claim with them. ALL
>> because of shipping with the legs on. The legs
>> were colapsed and the machine was on its side
>
> I just received three blanket-wrapped games yesterday via NAVL. A
> thousand miles on their backs without a nick or a scratch, and the
> shipping came to only $145 per game! I would never have had them
> shipped with the legs on, even though it might have reduced the risk of
> forking. To me, the bigger risk is what Walt described above: losing a
> leg in transit and having the game collapse. I've seen too many
> stripped leg bolts to ignore that possibility, and a three-legged,
> 275-lb. pinball machine can't be very stable.
>
> The games I received were TAF, IJ, ST:TNG. They were route games that
> are going to need some lovin', but they will all clean up nicely. I'm
> stoked! Up until now, my collection hasn't included any Bally/Wms. dmd
> games other than HSII. I only played TAF once -- ten years ago -- and
> I've never played IJ or ST:TNG at all. Somehow, I get the feeling
> these big boys are going to provide a whole different playing
> experience than my skinny, early SS games, or my dumb, pretty EMs.
> Thanks, Dave Wagler!
>
> - Josh A.
>
!