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May 13, 2003 4:04:42 PM

Though this is primarily a PC site, and it continues to grow, as of lately it jump in to review games and entertainment. I was wondering what the chances are of apples products become more prominent here.

Apple is touted to be the best tool for graphics... If virtually every test revolves around graphics, shouldn't they be apart of it? At least every once in a while anyhow...for comparison purposes at least…regardless of how far behind ..or possibly ahead they may be.

It’s obvious that the CPUs are half of what the PC world is at but is amazing that they still stack up. How is that possible? THIS is the place to show everyone how.

With most of their machines being dual processors now on a multiprocessor platform I’m sure that their product stands up pretty well in many tests.

And now with the advent of the G5 on the way and possible Quad-Processors on the way, they should be mentioned in many test performed here. Even to simply show their own progression, just as the chart displayed here http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030513/images/cpu_h...



dah, has any body seen my paints? :redface:

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May 13, 2003 4:43:54 PM

probably because this is primarily a Hardware Enthusiasts site, not a 'complete computer' enthusiasts site. As Macs are, on the whole, almost totally un-upgradeable, there is no real demand to see them here...
Besides, in any comparable apps, the MAC would get creamed by a modern high-spec PC. They were level pegging perhaps 18 months ago, but miles behind now.

And I for one will hate them until they have at least 2 bloody mouse buttons :lol:  ...

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:smile: :tongue: :smile:
May 13, 2003 4:57:29 PM

The problem is the 'graphics are faster' hype on macs is presently just that... hype. Benchmark some operations in almost anything on comparable priced mac and pc... the difference is massively in the pcs favor. Macs could take back the crown, but anytime you compare equal price to equal price at least in present day, it's just not a fair contest. Apple screwed up a while back and they're just now going to attempt to recover with the new processors...

Shadus
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May 13, 2003 5:29:08 PM

Well I for one, think there are valid reasons to include some MAC info, if for nothing else than a comparison (an objective comparison rather than the spirited guess work you get from both sides).

The MAC is a standard piece of equipment in most music studios, and in many musicians home stuidos. The PC also has some very good products, and manufacturers of professional audio equipment have long made interfaces and drivers for both platforms, and now with USB and Firewire, even more common equipment exists. But how do we as consumers determine whether an Athlon, P4, or G4 is the best basis for our next system.

More and more hardware is being developed with serial interfaces, USB, Firewire, even harddrives now have Serial ATA and Serial SCSI is coming too. Serial devices are going to offer us a lot of "out of the box" configuration potential which would fit perfectly in THG colums.

Some of us are enthusiasts who will take whichever approach provides the best performance for the application. And I for one, would like to know if a Mac product is the best solution.
May 13, 2003 5:34:39 PM

when it comes to upgrading a mac it is possible...i don't know what you're talking about chip. The power mac has ALWAYS been by far more upgradedable up untill recintly, now they are basicly the same. Besides that the technology has always been Far ahead of the PC, and still is in some repects, with the L3 Cache or 10/100/1000 aswell as firewire have been standerd for years now. for the most part upgrading is unessisary...because its already there...unless your talking about over clocking...in that case you may be correct.

As for the 'Hype' this is very true, i know this. About price comparison and that the mac will loose out, this is true too. But thats not realy the question here.
If i pay More for my machine simply becasue it looks better or that i like the OS better, i still would like to know how it stacks up.
The Mac/Apple product offers many things that PC do not offer so readily. And if Price is play a roll in this. then how much more is one paying for a comparible Machine for these little specialties.

even though AMD was way behind intel charts conitued to show how....poorly... they stacked up. why not do they same for the Mac.


I could not have said that any better myself ivoryjohn

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by cdpage on 05/13/03 01:40 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 13, 2003 7:57:22 PM

Hardware wise, these things should be covered here at toms.

1. 10/100/1000 networking
2. their blue tooth and air port extreme capabilities
3. Firewire 2
4. L3 Cache
5. there monitors!
6. the new iPod..the older one had a mention in here i admit
7. XServe U1 and U3 should most deffinatly get mention here
8. AND Much of there software.

the music, video industry, and graphic industry are almost required to have a Mac. they deserve to know what they have or are getting.

these things should be covered here.

dah, has any body seen my paints? :redface:
May 13, 2003 8:17:59 PM

No offense to you Mac people, but you just don't get it.

1) Macs get completely slaughtered in performance for modern Macs compared to modern PCs.

2) <i>ANY</i> hardware that you can get on a Mac, you can also get on a PC with <i>one</i> exception: L3 cache. Why don't PCs have an L3 cache? Because <i>they don't need it</i>.

3) The modern PC is infinitely more upgradable and expandable than the modern Mac.

4) The modern PC costs far less than the modern Mac.

5) Because of the above 4 reasons, the <i>only</i> reason to get a Mac these days is for software that <i>isn't</i> available on a PC.

So in light of the reasons above there really just is absolutely no reason to compare a Mac to a PC. It's a waste of time. Anyone who buys a Mac does so because they're biased against PCs or they have specific software needs that haven't been ported to the PC. There's just no reason to compare the performance. If you get a Mac then you're getting something slower than a PC of the same cost. End of story.

If you want benchmarks to show you that, there are already other sites that <i>have</i> done these comparisons for the very few people who actually care. There's no reason to waste time and money (since time <i>is</i> money) for every review site to do the same comparisons that almost no one cares about.

<font color=purple><pre><b>There are 10 types of people in this world: those who can understand binary and those who can't.</b></pre><p></font color=purple>
May 13, 2003 8:42:05 PM

I would also like to see what the latest and greatest macs can do next to PC's and comparable software. I emailed THG with that suggesting a few weeks ago, and that is all I can do really.

Oh, and the first person to say that macs are easier to use than PC's gets stabbed in the face.
May 13, 2003 10:56:27 PM

Another thing to note is the lack of sponsorship. Tomshardware cannot afford to actually go out and buy $3000 hardware for the pure sake of a review. They get sent the hardware they review from manufacturers. Apple won't send PC enthusiaste sites their hardware because they don't want a PC enthusiaste site making an unfavorable comparison and vice versa for Mac sites (they don't get much hardware from Intel or AMD). It's a division among the computer industry that Apple is solely responsible for. Intel and AMD didn't create this imaginary barrier that views Macs as "different", it's still a computer, just like any other computer. Apple did to play on the snooty elitists who buy Macs, and it works. All of Apple's advertisements and PR have the same snide condescending attitude and plays on ignorant people who need an ego-booster.

"We are Microsoft, resistance is futile." - Bill Gates, 2015.
May 14, 2003 1:44:06 AM

Does Bata Max come to mind? Mac sound like Bata Max to me.

If it ain't broke, take it apart & see why not!
May 14, 2003 2:46:08 AM

I wouldn't mind seeing this, but it is really apples to oringes (pun intended).


Anyway, some other sites have thisk, and from what I see, apple doesn't perform exceptionally well. The only thing they have as an advantage that I can tell is their media software is more flexible.

Athlon XP 1600+, MSI K7T PRO2 RU (POS), 2x256 MB CRUCIAL PC2100 CL2.5 memory, Asus V6800 DDR Delux (GF 256) video card, 6.4GB+27GB WD HD, 40GB IBM HD (all 7200RPM). My computer is an acronym
May 14, 2003 7:46:48 PM

Except that Betamax was actually better technology, but in this case the Mac is worse.

<font color=purple><pre><b>There are 10 types of people in this world: those who can understand binary and those who can't.</b></pre><p></font color=purple>
May 15, 2003 1:57:28 AM

Better, worse? Can't tell. I do know that Beta Max is a relic of the past as many other technologies are. I couldn't wait to get my first 8 track. Oh what joy. Where are they? Where are the cassette tapes? Things have a way of rising to the top & / or disappearing forever.

WARNING RANT TO FOLLOW. STOP READING HERE TO AVOID RANT!!!!

Shoot to tell you the truth, we just spent I don't know how much time making a movie of our family history on CD's. Most of it was based on the history that my Grandmother of 100 had lived before she passed last spring. We have all of our family photos scanned on CD from the days of photography's start until today with Mpegs. A far cry from the family history that my Great Grandmother kept hand written in her bible. Do I really think that my Grandson will be able to look at them with a CD ROM 50 years from now, NOT!!!! Who knows what will be the flavor of the month 50 years from now. I do know that the backbone of family history is laid down & someone in the future of my family will be able to take that to whatever comes down the pike & carry it on in the future. Have not a clue, but neither did my Great Grandmother when she was writing in her passages in that bible & now her writing is preserved in data on CDs.

In the last 50 years we have come light years in technology. It's amazing stuff. But I remember the pieces of technology that didn't make it into the main stream though excellent. Gone with the wind. Also the technologies that rose to super powers & then as the need was gone disappeared. I don't see any Wagon builders left do you? What happened to the Rail Roads the setteled the country?

Lately it's been the Auto Industry, Air Lines, CPU chip makers, Software writers that have risen to power. How long any one of them last's is anybody's guess. When there's a need, it will be felt & filled. When the need is gone or the technology changes bye bye, Cya. It's a amazing to me. Got to put things into perspective, you know what I mean?

Moral of the tale, nothing is permanent no matter how good it is, everything can be replaced & will be in time.

End of rant, sorry I got started!

If it ain't broke, take it apart & see why not!
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