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New Workstation

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May 19, 2003 9:09:39 PM

I need to build a new workstation for 3d modeling. ProE 2001 to be specific. Any comments would be appreciated.

I'd like to know if I should buy the Asus P4G8X rather than the P4C800. I've read that the P4C800 has some issues, I'd hope they could fix the problems with software (bios update).

I wanted to use a P4 3.0 @ 800 mhz. I've notice that for 1/2 the price I can get a 2.6 @ 800 mhz or a 2.8 @ 533 mhz which of these 2 would be better? Any idea how much faster would the box run with the 3.0 @ 800? Which one of these would be best for a tiny bit of overclocking air cooled). What kind of processor do I need to be able to overclock the thing? What is a "C1 Stepping" processor?

I need a gig of memory. I wouldn't mind buying 512 now. And another 512 in a month or two. I wanted to use Corsair memory because I've read that they are the most stable with aggresive timings. 2-2-2-5 T1 ? Would I have better luck running 4 sticks of 256 or 2 sticks of 512? Are the twinX memory sets really necessary?

Thanks in advance

More about : workstation

May 19, 2003 9:54:17 PM

Quote:
I'd like to know if I should buy the Asus P4G8X rather than the P4C800.

Definetly get a motherboard with the canterwood chipset. The Abit canterwood motherboards (IC7 and IC7-G) are the early favorite here at THGC. The main difference between IC7 and IC7-G is IC7 has no LAN and IC7-G does. So, if you get IC7, get a PCI LAN card if you need one.
Quote:
I need a gig of memory. I wouldn't mind buying 512 now. And another 512 in a month or two.

If you can get another 512MB memory module really soon, then this is not a bad decision. Highly recommended that you run in Dual DDR mode with canterwood, which is not in effect if an odd number of memory modules are inserted into the motherboard.
Quote:
I wanted to use Corsair memory

Good decision.
Quote:
Would I have better luck running 4 sticks of 256 or 2 sticks of 512?

Better to have 2 sticks.
Quote:
Are the twinX memory sets really necessary?

Not necessary. And Corsair is recommending XMS PC3200 C2 and XMS PC3500 C2 (preferred) memory modules for use with the canterwood chipset. Not the twinx or Low-latency modules.
May 20, 2003 1:58:35 AM

Your barking up the wrong tree. I'm a solid modeler with over 10 years experience & I'll tell you right flat out. I'm running a XP 2500, 512 Hyper X RAM & a TI 4600 & it's way more than enough. I just upgraded from a 2400 & to the & 2500 it eats it.

I've been running both Unigraphics V 16 & 18 on both of these chips & I have all the modules running. To go to Intel here, you can spend the $$$ but you pay more for less. Pro E doesn't take near the resources that UG does. So I'd be looking at something about $500 cheaper than you are for sure. It's my $.02. So take it for what it's worth, but I make a living out of my 2500 running UG & wouldn't waste my $$$ on Intel for your application.

Honey, what's that smell? Don't bother me now I'm working on my computer! OOPS!
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May 20, 2003 4:32:08 AM

AMD is more expensive. To get almost 3.0C performance, he'd have to buy a much more expensieve 3200+. To get almost 2.8C performance, he'd need at least a 3000+

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
May 20, 2003 10:50:23 AM

Crashman

you are making a rather fundamental assumption that the application mentioned runs equally well on "equivalent" CPUs from AMD and Intel. There are numerous examples of various applications working much better on one than the other.

Unless you have a similar sort of background I would say rcpilot has much more of an understanding of what is required here than you have.

L
May 20, 2003 1:32:56 PM

All I can tell you is I ran UG fine on the A7V8X with a 2400 CPU & 2700 Hyper X. Now I've got it on the A7N8X Deluxe with the 2500 & 3200 Hyper X, UG runs a tad faster. I will say that both setups run it faster & better that the Sun workstations & main frame we used at GM. I'm no expert on it, but know what it takes to run it. I've got a casting here about ready to send to get the Kirksite tooling cut for it off my model I started on the 2400 & am finishing on the 2500. I can run it fully shaded & rotate in real time. So I fell that it's plenty of machine. You can spend more if you want to but I don't see a need for it myself. Pro E takes less resorces than UG to run.


Honey, what's that smell? Don't bother me now I'm working on my computer! OOPS!
May 20, 2003 3:27:01 PM

But do you have any experience with those programs running on Intel CPUs? If so, isn´t it possible that ProE runs differently on different CPUs than UG? This "takes less resources to run" thing seems like a very cloudy argument for me. What are the specs of the machines you ran UG on after all? Are they up-to-date Sun workstations?

In any case, leonov, rcpilot seems to be making the same "fundamental assumption" you said crashman was making. Rcpilot didn´t mention he knew how ProE performed on different platforms; rather, he mentioned that UG ran better in those specific AMD platforms when compared to Sun workstations and that mainframe - where I requested a few more details (if possible). <i>AAAAnnnd</i> (here comes the catch) <i>ProE "takes less resources to run" than UG</i>.

Also, I don´t know exactly how ProE 2001 stacks up as to software optimisations. Does it have explicit SSE2 support? Any programming peculiarities? I´ll read something on the net and come back later!

One more thing, as to 2.6C vs 2.8B, we´ll probably see some reviews of that tomorrow. It´s the official launch date for the "C" processors (with 800Mhz FSB and HT enabled)<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 05/20/03 12:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 20, 2003 4:50:04 PM

I haven't personally ran UG on a Intel set up. My partner is running it with a P4 2.4 or 2.5 on Granitebay MOBO. I think I'm faster, he thinks he's faster in UG. Point being is neither of us has the latest, greatest, fastest, CPU in the world & run it & use it.

Pro E is a cheap mans UG when it comes right down to it. Most of the third tier vendors use Pro E to save costs on software & hardware, then get a translator to send it in house. So I don't believe that it's nearly as intense as UG. I've used a lot of Pro E generated files that have been taken up through the translator into UG at work in my designs.

I'm getting Catia 5.0 & going to be loading that to teach it to myself. I don't expect to have any problems with it either, but we'll see when it gets here.

I left GM a year ago & went out on my own or was put out to pasture depending on your point of view. I can't remember the Sun I was running at that time. However GM has a refresh cycle of 24 months. So no machine is older than 2 years at any given time. Now they have booted Sun & are upgrading to Windows NT based UG. That's the point I could get in the door with my PC. When UG was UNIX based I couldn't touch it on a PC.

Sorry that I can't be more exact. All I've stated is what I have personally done & do. Other than what I've stated I don't know about. That's as honest as I can be.

Honey, what's that smell? Don't bother me now I'm working on my computer! OOPS!
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May 20, 2003 10:40:15 PM

Read what he said before voicing such an opinion. He didn't have an Intel baseline to compare it to. I'm also a 3D modeler for 7 years now...and worked my way through college as a system builder.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
May 20, 2003 11:25:29 PM

Thanks for the info.

Somehow we got off track. I don't remember asking about the Amd Processor. Just because UG runs better doesn't mean that ProE will. Who really gives a _ _ _ _ if you think UG is better. Nobody around here uses it. I'm not planning on moving to Michigan.

What about 2.6 @ 800 vs. 2.8 @ 533? Can you tell me which one is faster?

What about the memory settings 2-2-2-5 vs. 2-3-3-7. How much of a performance hit will I take when I run the slower settings? 5% or 25%?

Anyhow, I disagree that the fastest Athalon Processor is cheaper than the Intel. What does the fastest AMD cost? I saw about $650. The Intel is about $490.

If you go to: http://www.proesite.com/ & follow the links to see the benchmark results...the fastest ProE boxes are 3.0 p4's from NTSI.

Also, I have a ton of experience supporting ProE w/ Intel & NT. I know it will work very well.

Anyway, I think I'm going to get the 3.0 @ 800mhz & the P4c800. I might wait a little while...I'm not sure if there's a problem with the board hardware, bios, or the 875 chip from Intel.

I want the processor to talk to the memory as fast as possible. I think I'm going to buy the corsair memory, as recommended by corsair for this board.

Thanks for your help

P.S. I heard this guy failed the ProE entrance exam...so they kicked him out of the training class....
May 21, 2003 1:23:03 AM

I think we´ll be seeing reviews of pretty much all the members of the "C" family of P4s in the next few days - probably starting tomorrow. Their launch date is tomorrow, <b>21st May</b>.

Anyway, we should then see how the current processors stack up against the 2.4C, 2.6C, 2.8C, 3.0C and 3.2C. That last one is almost certainly going to make the XP3200 look very bad.
May 21, 2003 9:47:22 AM

Crashman

You said:

Read what he said before voicing such an opinion.

I can't take account of something which hadn't been mentioned at the time.

I was primarily responding to the fact that *you* said the AMD system would cost more for what he suggested. Have you ever run the configuration he mentioned and compared it with your hypothetically equivalent Intel based system?

If you have could you let us know the results. If you haven't it's clear you were responding purely from emotional attachment to the Intel brand.

L
May 21, 2003 11:29:06 AM

Yea, don't come to MI, we don't need you. There's 15000 Senior Designing Engineers like myself out of work at the Big 3. All the work is going off shore Mexico & China.

Sorry that your not open minded. I just tried to give a alternative.

I'm totally happy running UG on my 2500. Oh & BTW the CPU cost a whopping $131 & the Nforce MOBO was $132. So I've got less that the cost of the chip your talking about in my rig. I guess that money falls form the sky for you.

I do have a Patent myself & know what I'm doing.

Have fun with your Intel rig.

Honey, what's that smell? Don't bother me now I'm working on my computer! OOPS!
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May 21, 2003 10:30:47 PM

Emotional? Everything I've seen tells me the P4 3.0C is ALWAYS faster than the much more expensive XP3200+. Now always is a nice feature, I don't have to know any more about these specific apps when always comes into play. Money speaks louder than emotions.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
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