Quality article, courtesy of Thomas Pabst himself

eden

Champion
<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20030603/index.html" target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20030603/index.html</A>
As we have seen here, ol' Tom wrote this along with the CPU article crew. I knew that if it weren't for him, this would not appear. Only Tom had the enthusiast blood this much. I like the fact Asus played behind Intel here, and released official retail boards using such technology. Yes it is PAT, no it isn't advertised at such (anymore), and yes it performs liks an i875. If you're gonna whine about 875 boards being slightly higher (in the form of 1%), then that is because you did not read the clock charts, which show a clear 30MHZ gap between the i875 P4C800 and the i865 P4P800.

Even more reasons why you're only getting screwed for getting Canterwood, if you're an enthusiast. Again, ECC is crap if you do not do server business. Gigabit LAN is barely used around, and if you do need it, I believe the CSA is integrated thus an i865 board should or HAS to have it.

Nevertheless, it clears up why THG's i865 test was so powerful back then. I suppose however that PAT exists indeed, and therefore I do admit having been overjumping on the case.

Hahah, I do find it funny though that Intel is probably really pissed off at the moment. I am surprised THG published such an article. It is like telling us how to mod a geForce 4 into a Quadro 980 GXL! Only Tom would do that, only ol' Tom... :smile:

EDIT: Ok, reading through Silver's mainboard research, it appears GB Lan by CSA is extremly rare. Therefore it is a lesser argument in favor of 875's uselessness. It does however raise the question of: Who or what will use 125MB/sec of bandwidth, AT HOME! So yeah, it's a Workstation indeed, but at least now we can get that WS's performance at home for less.
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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! :tongue: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 06/03/03 11:16 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

confoundicator

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Hahah, I do find it funny though that Intel is probably really pissed off at the moment. I am surprised THG published such an article. It is like telling us how to mod a geForce 4 into a Quadro 980 GXL! Only Tom would do that, only ol' Tom...
He didn't just tell <i>us</i>, he told Abit, Gigabyte, MSI, and every other motherboard maker in the world. I wouldn't be surprised to see new i865 boards from all the major manufacturers. The question is, will there be a price increase?

I'm just a big, geeky nerd. :cool:
 

TKH

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Once again, i875P users are screwed. This story tells us that there is no need to hurry for new technology.

It is morally wrong to allow suckers to keep their money
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=22996" target="_new">My System Rig</A>
 

slvr_phoenix

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Eden, your link doesn't work. :(

As for the i865 vs. i875 debate:

I still contend that anyone who went right out and bought an i875 mobo because it was going to be oh so amazing and then got pissed when the i865 came out with virtually identical performance only deserves what they got.

It was widely known that the i865 was going to be released and was going to be more or less the same northbridge, and therefore more or less the same performance. And it was also just as widely known that the i865 was going to be coming out very shortly after the i875.

So anyone who even did a teeny-tiny little bit of research would have saved themselves the money by waiting a few extra weeks if the i865 was all that they needed. The only way that you could not have known this is if you didn't research <i>at all</i> before you bought. And there's certainly no excuse now.

The i875 is the workstation model. The mobo manufacturers treat it as such and give i875 mobos all of the bells and whistles that a workstation motherboard should have. It costs more not because of the northbridge, but because of those extras.

The i865 is a SOHO model. The mobo manus treat it as such and strip it down as far as they humanly can. Compared to the i875 mobos most i865 mobos are incredibly short on features. They cost less because they do less, not because they perform slower.

It's really all about the features, not about the performance. If you just want the performance and don't care about a gigabit CSA ethernet, then go with the i865-PE. The i865 boards are about low-cost with good performance.

If you care about things like ECC RAM, gigabit CSA LAN, enhanced RAID functionality, etc. then go with the i875. Hell, I've even seen an i875 board with an onboard SCSI controller. The i875 boards are all about the features.

"<i>Yeah, if you treat them like equals, it'll only encourage them to think they <b>ARE</b> your equals.</i>" - Thief from <A HREF="http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=030603" target="_new">8-Bit Theater</A>
 

Spitfire_x86

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Where's the article? I can see

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ad_rach

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Hmmm.Yes.Something fishy going on.The article has completely vanished from THG.<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9833" target="_new">The Inquirer</A> has updated their article about it today, mentioning the mysterious disappearance.

no matter how hard you try, you can't polish a turd. :]
 
G

Guest

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Ya odd stuff im happy I saw it last night just before goin to bed. Intel probably got pissed and flexed their muscles so less people learn the truth...

The computer scene is turning into politics its pretty fun to watch...
 

confoundicator

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I bet Intel got pissed because of the technical details in the article. Tom described in detail how the Asus board tricks the chipset. I can't remember the exact details, but it seems that the i865 has PAT disabled only at FSB 800Mhz. So the board tricks the chipset into thinking that it's running at FSB 533Mhz, thereby enabling PAT, while the FSB hums along at 800Mhz. Clever stuff. Again I wish I could remember more detail.

I'm just a big, geeky nerd. :cool:
 

jaythaman

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IT said something about the bsel pins about how asus found out that 0,0 config was reserved for activating pat or something.

<font color=blue>If you can read this then it's time to move on to the next post :tongue: </font color=blue><font color=red><b><i>Jay Kay</font color=red></b></i>
 

eden

Champion
This leads me to wonder, does that mean PAT is then a boon for 533MHZ FSB users?

--
If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! :tongue:
 

eden

Champion
DELETED, BY SATISFACTION :smile:
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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! :tongue: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 06/04/03 10:29 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

confoundicator

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<A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20030603/index.html" target="_new">http://www6.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20030603/index.html</A>
It's back. Now you have to take back all that nasty stuff you said about good ol' Tom :tongue: .

I'm just a big, geeky nerd. :cool:
 

confoundicator

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From the conclusion of the article:
Update, June 4, 2003: a day after this article was posted, the BIOS version 1.3 Beta for the Abit IS7-G, a rival product, arrived. The initial tests show that Abit has made the same leap in performance and is now at the same level as Asus. Thus, the frame rates in Quake 3 have increased from 366 to 418 fps - this may be a sign that Abit has also activated PAT.
Have the floodgates opened?

I'm just a big, geeky nerd. :cool:
 

daniel1113

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Honestly! Did Intel really think they would get away with something like this? I love my 875P board, but it really makes me wonder about a lot of their products...

- Daniel (daniel1113@attbi.com)
 

Crashman

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Now you just have to worry about how to enable the rest of the cache, and hyperthreading, on those cheap P4 Celerons!

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
 

eden

Champion
Hahah, so Tom still has the spirit. :smile:

I knew that Abit was playing with us with such crap performance. And now with PAT suddenly there, it seems that indeed the mobo makers are turning against Intel suddenly, which still comes as a surprise to me, wondering how in the world can they think this way!
Lovely though, now not only Asus is getting such! i865PE galore!

--
If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! :tongue:
 

phsstpok

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OK, you have been vindicated! Please stop the ranting!

- I don't need ECC.

- I don't really need gigabit LAN at home (though it's time I loose the 10-Mbit cards. LOL!).

- PAT exists or doesn't exist? This is driving me crazy!

- This still leaves the question of which boards overclock better. Does chipset binning yield better overclocking for i875 mobos.



-

<b>56K, slow and steady does not win the race on internet!</b>
 

eden

Champion
OK, you have been vindicated! Please stop the ranting!
LOL!

- I don't need ECC.

- I don't really need gigabit LAN at home (though it's time I loose the 10-Mbit cards. LOL!).

- PAT exists or doesn't exist? This is driving me crazy!

- This still leaves the question of which boards overclock better. Does chipset binning yield better overclocking for i875 mobos.
Why were you citing all this?

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If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! :tongue:
 

phsstpok

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I guess I was trying that I would now choose a Springdale mobo UNLESS chipset binning gives an overclocking advantage to Canterwood mobos.

<b>56K, slow and steady does not win the race on internet!</b>
 

FUGGER

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Yawn, Eden if I had the time I would school you on how the 865 pales in compairison to the 875 when it comes to overclocking and performance. At stock speeds the 865 is a good budget board but when overclocking it is a dog and falls behind 875 quickly as you go up in speed.

<A HREF="http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13262" target="_new">Link to proof of the despairty of the 865</A> confirmed by Macci. Its a good reading thread.

<b>"Granted I dont own a P4. But I read enough stuff and waste enough time on forums newsgroups IRC and computer news sites that I proberly know more then if I DID own a P4." -vk2amv</b>
 

eden

Champion
Ok, supposing overclocking aside, there is no reason Fugger, to get it, if you're a home user. We're peaking overclocking limits, no home user's watercooling will yeild 4GHZ.
Got any links to show 3.5GHZ performance for example? I'm too tired to read the entire thread you linked us to.


--
If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! :tongue:
 

FUGGER

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I would have to dig them up. Im sure there is some at 3.5Ghz.

I would never buy a 865 for myself, and frown upon your ranting that we got screwed. 865 is not the chipset for me and for many of other people as it sucks for overclocking for performance. It can reach a real nice FSB but it is almost useless as the gain in Mhz does not yield the performace expected.

You do not need to reach 4Ghz to see the desparity, take the 2.4Ghz for example. running at 250FSB (3Ghz on air) the 875 will show a much higher performance increase than the 865 at the same speeds. That is basicly what the thread I linked states.

And yes I do have a NEO 865 board and several 875 boards, so I do speak from experiance.


<b>"Granted I dont own a P4. But I read enough stuff and waste enough time on forums newsgroups IRC and computer news sites that I proberly know more then if I DID own a P4." -vk2amv</b>
 

juin

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mainly as I865 are built around cheaper 4 layer boards unlike I875 even so a Corp can make a simple layout for bolt to same cost.The same thing is use in every thing any discret Gate from NAND to Reverse will allwayse have the same package to save cost even if some pin are not use.

[-peep-] french