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Upgrade in the making

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Last response: in CPUs
June 8, 2003 9:21:28 AM

I'm very excited about the upgrade that I'm gonna get in September. Just in time for Half-Life 2. Coincidence? I've already put all the upgrade components on Newegg's Shopping Cart for me to fiddle with. Right now I have pretty much the final draft. As you can see this is going to be a COMPLETE overhaul. The only thing staying might be my printer and game controller.

I am really hoping some of you can help me back my decisions. Unless of course I didn't make the right decision on something in which I definately would like some constructive criticism.

<b>Case</b> - <A HREF="" target="_new">ANTEC Performance PlusView1000AMG</A>
<b>PSU</b> - <A HREF="" target="_new">ANTEC True480 w/ Blue LED</A>
<b>Mobo</b> - <A HREF="" target="_new">MSI 865PE Neo2</A> - Is this a good choice for future upgrading possibly to a Prescott chip? I've read some good things about it and it's at a pretty good price.
<b>CPU</b> - <A HREF="" target="_new">P4 2.8c w/800FSB</A> - This seems to be the best high-end value processor. It's $131.00 cheaper than the 3.0c for starters. Plus I've read some reviews in which the 2.8c was able to safely be pushed to 3.22 with the stock hsf. On the other hand, who knows if this will still be the smartest choice in 3 months.
<b>Memory</b> - <A HREF="" target="_new">(2)512mb Corsair XMS PC3200 Low Latency Platinum</A> - This is where I need some help. I want to get a good price on some good memory. I know that low latency like CL2 is good. I figured this was a solid choice but is there something better for a cheaper price?
<b>Video Card</b> - <A HREF="" target="_new">Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb</A> - It's possible in 3 months that something better may be out, but even then this would still be a solid choice.
<b>Hard Drive</b> - <A HREF="" target="_new">Western Digital 120gb 7200rpm w/8mb Cache</A> - I'm not very interested in Raid and with only 1 hard drive it's kind of difficult. Do you guys suggest going with a Raid setup? I don't know much about it but for some reason alot of people have it.
<b>CD Burner</b> - <A HREF="" target="_new">Lite On 48x24x48x16 CDROM/CDRW/DVD Combo Drive</A>
<b>Monitor</b> - <A HREF="" target="_new">Sony 19" CRT G420S</A>
<b>Speakers</b> - <A HREF="" target="_new">Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 THX Certified</A> - I know you are probably thinking 2.1 is pretty ghetto. But I really don't feel the need for surround sound. I am perfectly happy with 2 speakers and a sub. Amd I really missing out though?
<b>Mouse/Keyboard</b> - <A HREF="" target="_new">Logitech Cordless MX Duo - MX700 Mouse and MX Keyboard</A>

<b>Total</b> = $2076.98 @ <A HREF="" target="_new">Newegg</A>

The great thing about having it all in a Newegg shopping cart is that I can periodically check the price to see how much I've saved by waiting 3 months.

I feel I've done enough research to know this will be a pretty solid system. I just want you guys to let me know if I'm making a bad choice on something or if I should make any other changes.

I appreciate any and all suggestions/comments.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ltj311 on 06/08/03 05:22 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

More about : upgrade making

June 8, 2003 8:01:33 PM

Great looking PC you have there. If you wait till October prices will come down. Thats if you want P4 3.0. Corsair go with PC 3500. I was thinking of going with Pc3200 to save some money. I checked their Corsair web site last night. They recommend PC 3500 for all Canterwood and Springdale Mobos.
June 9, 2003 4:22:12 AM

Corsair recommends the 3500 ram because they do not sell high latancy 3200. The P4c systems do not run well on low latancy. The reduced charge does not carry well at high speeds.
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June 9, 2003 5:40:51 AM

I'll sell you an Mx700 mouse for $45 and shipping, i've been trying to get rid of it for weeks. If you're interested, email me or reply to my message, or pm

Instead of Rdram, why not just merge 4 Sdram channels...
June 9, 2003 6:55:26 AM

It pretty much looks like what I'm considering getting.

If you plan on burning CDs, I would suggest getting a CD/RW drive and DVD drive.

If you plan on watching TV or movies on your comptuer, I suggest a center channel. Also, the center channel can be good for gaming. Surround is pretty cool but not needed. I have my stereo, TV and computers intergreated so I use home stereo amps and speakers for surround sound.

Logitech makes great products( I use their trackball for gaming) but I have heard the the cordless mouses are heavy and slow in response for gaming.

Get the 3500s.

the Prisoner

My Mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch.

I'm not a number, I'm a free man! :mad: 
June 9, 2003 7:09:07 AM

Hi! Nice system but I wouldn't go with the MSI board since somewhere in the back of my head a remember something about problems with low latency memory, maybe fixed now? Also I wonder how MSI boards copes with "normal" oc? If one wants to oc, does the MSI board try to oc despite the fact that one already has done that? Can one shutoff their autooc in bios?

Another thing go with a S-ata drive since you'll appriciate the thin cables, good for airflow, and added speed for not that much more money.


June 9, 2003 7:46:22 AM

Great looking PC you have there. If you wait till October prices will come down. Thats if you want P4 3.0. Corsair go with PC 3500. I was thinking of going with Pc3200 to save some money. I checked their Corsair web site last night. They recommend PC 3500 for all Canterwood and Springdale Mobos.

Thanks. Looks like I'm going with PC3500. Appreciate the advice.

Corsair recommends the 3500 ram because they do not sell high latancy 3200. The P4c systems do not run well on low latancy. The reduced charge does not carry well at high speeds.

I will definately remember that. Thanks for the info.

I'll sell you an Mx700 mouse for $45 and shipping

I appreciate the offer but no thanks. I can get a new one on ebay for around $30-40.
If you plan on burning CDs, I would suggest getting a CD/RW drive and DVD drive.

I thought the one I chose has both of those features combined, no? Am I mistaken?

Turk, you bring up some good points. Although since I'm switching to non-low latency PC3500 I can probaby stick with the MSI. Unless maybe I should go with Asus, but for the price MSI seems to be a solid choice. And what you mentioned about "autoOC" was a big part of why I chose this board. This will be my first build-it-from-scratch computer and having this feature will give me a little more boost without having to mess with the multipliers. And I don't think you can shut off the autooc feature. But I'm not 100% on that. Is there another board you would recommend?

Thanks alot for the knowledge on S-ata drives. I wasn't aware of the thinner cables(which interest me very much). I will definately look into those.
June 9, 2003 9:07:13 AM

I think the point about burning CDs is, that you will be able to copy a disc but it is more hassle with only one drive as you have to put the disc to be copied in first... then once that has been copied to hard drive, take it out and put in the disc you are copying onto... ZZZZzz Its not that much hassle but it slows the whole process down and is especially noticble when you do a number of different discs... So a dedicated DVD drive and a Dedicated CD/RW drive may be more approprite ?

I would go for a SATA, although they are generlly not that much quicker than any normal ATA drive with the exception of the new 10k rpm drive availble !


<font color=blue>Its winter now... So how come my CPU temp is still </font color=blue><b><font color=red>55C</font color=red></b>
June 9, 2003 9:58:25 AM

That's a good point. I do burn quite a few cd's but I don't very often use both my DVD-Rom and my CD-RW at the sime time. This is why I decided on the all in one. Are there any other scenerios where having two drives would be better than one?

And I was wondering if someone can shed some light on this issue. I read somewhere that the Serial-ATA drives need a seperate power adapter. What's the deal and where would I get one?

So far the changes to my upgrade are:
<A HREF="" target="_new">Lian-Li (Silver) Aluminum ATX Mid-Tower Case</A> instead of the Antec case.

<A HREF="" target="_new">Seagate 120gb 7200rpm SATA drive</A> instead of the WD 120gb Special Edition

<A HREF="" target="_new">(2)512mb Corsair XMS PC3500C2</A> instead of the PC3200

Overall price dropped $4.79.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ltj311 on 06/09/03 06:05 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 9, 2003 1:24:42 PM

Hi! The S-ATA powercableadaptors (phew) are included with that board, atleast if you look at the mobos pictures on newegg you can see that ALL NEEDED cables are included :smile: . If by any chance they aren't, they cost (in Sweden) about 4$ each and Sweden is generally more expensive than the US :( 


June 9, 2003 9:01:49 PM

When do you plan on buying your new Puter upgrades?
June 9, 2003 9:06:28 PM

The main justification for my upgrade is for Half-Life 2. has it coming out on Sept. 30th. So probably anywhere from the end of August to the middle of September.
June 9, 2003 9:09:13 PM

Can you wait till Oct Intel has price drop. 2.8c will come down in price.
June 9, 2003 9:19:46 PM

Ooh that's tempting. Do you know what the price drop will be? Right now newegg has it for $289.00.
June 9, 2003 9:56:36 PM

Price cut for Intel 26 Oct 3.0c $278 2.8c $218
June 10, 2003 4:28:57 AM

That will be tough to wait for. Who knows, maybe HL2 will be delayed a month to the end of October.

I've also got a question about the mobo I chose. Should I go with the Asus P4P800 865PE @ $123.99 or the MSI 865PE Neo2 @105.00? I'm looking mainly for stability but also at OC ability and features.

Thanks for your help HardwareBoss.
June 10, 2003 6:13:48 AM

I'm starting to rethink my decision on the TRUE480. That's probably too much power for what I'm doing. I might have 2 CD/DVD drives but I wouldn't be doing anything eccentric that would call for more power.

Is the 480w overdoing it in my case?
June 10, 2003 8:20:21 AM

Hi Again! Your question about the:

PSU YES! 480W is way to much for you. You could actually use a 350W and still be very comfortable. And before you other nice guys at the forum jumps me on this. Please, first check what parts he's going to use, do some math and then jump me. And yes we all know that "bigger is better" but don't forget that everything has a price. That money could be better spend on some other part (or at something completly different :smile: ) Also have a look into the Antecs noiselevel at this thg test: If noise levels is important to you, please reconsider.

MOBO, I would go with the ASUS, the MSI autoOC is a interesting feature, but how does it work if you yourself would like to OC?

Also I saw this at newegg: "**FREE w/ Purchase of Antec TRUE Power Supply, just add this to the shopping cart and credit will be given at order confirmation** Antec PC Lighter Adapter Retail Recharge your cellphone, Neon Light or just about any Car accessory with this Adapter," Value 9.99$

Well, GL again then

June 10, 2003 5:40:57 PM

*Time to Jump on Turk*

The 480 PSU is a bit over the top but it doesnt hurt to have the extra watts there just in case something happens. The CPU alone will take 90 watts, the 9800pro will take a good amount and all the other hardware(pci, Cd-roms, Hd's especially if he moves to the S-ata 10K drive) will equal at least 280 watts. Let alone that MSI board does its own OCing it takes a wee bit more watts to get her going to.

Since he did state that the upgrade is for HL2 the 9800 is going to be running alot (at least in my experience when new games come out).I believe they make a 420 watt version but it isnt a True Blue(which i think you stated is what you wanted originally).

I know that my 300 watt PSU that runs a dual P3 cant even handle a Ge4 4200.(stuck with a ATI AIW 128 PCI 16meg, I Love ATI though).But i do have alot of stuff in there for editing and crap.

I would stick with the 480 for now and keep it on your wishlist. Like stated in earlier posts prices will drop over time.

*Done jumping on Turk*
P.S. hope he doesnt get mad at me

Regarding the Price drop in October for the CPU. That is what intel wants the price to be around at that point. They start selling the CPUs fro cheaper about 2 weeks before that price will go into effect. Logically the stores and places that sell Intel CPUs will drop their prices on the Cpus so they dont lose money on the inventory they currently have. I bet that the P4 2.8 C will be about 25-45 dollars cheaper when late august-mid september comes around then what they currently are at now.

Sounds like a good setup but the only rebutle i have is that the HD should be a S-ata 10K Raptor because that is the way of the HD(according to reports). Also it would be somewhat pointless if my memory is right that Intel is coming out with a new socket/pin grid array in 2004. So that maybe this upgrade isnt necessarily the best regarding "future proofing" your system. I believe the last chip that is going to be made on the 478 layout is the 3.6 that comes out q1 of 2004(?).

Well happy gaming and buying

June 10, 2003 6:43:12 PM

I'm going with Asus P4P800 Deluxe. In the next couple of weeks. I have 430 watt Psu. Buy the 480 has DJ mentioned.
June 10, 2003 6:49:30 PM

Thats why I'm buying Springdale an not Canterwood. Intel will be releasing sockett 775 Grantsdale. Thats what I read that 3.6 Prescott will be last of the 478. So why spend big$ on Mobo when I can buy Grantsdale next year an get 4.0 Ghz or whatever by end of next year Prescott. The Question now is will Tejas work on Grantsdale?
June 10, 2003 9:28:30 PM

Thanks for all the response guys! Right now I've replaced the True480 with the True430. This is probably what I will go with unless the 480 goes down in price some.

Amd_me, I know I'm missing out not going with surround, but that's not something I'm dying to have. Do you suggest any good 4.1 or 5.1 systems that can rival the Klipsch 2.1 in price($170)?

I am definately going with a SATA drive. Probaby the 120gb.

Thanks for the tip DJKlown, but if I didn't buy my upgrade this fall, I would have to wait till at least Q2/Q3 2004 to get something compatible with the successor to the 478-pin chipset. I just can't wait that long. I am a hardcore gamer and I want a high end system for HL2. I can still upgrade to Prescott with the system I've chosen, right?

I'm wanting this system to suit me for at least a year and a half to two years.
June 10, 2003 9:58:12 PM

Yes you can upgrade to prescott when it comes out or you are sick of what you got.

I am too a hardcore gamer for some games, but i dont have all the newest and best hardware to be able to play them properly. (Dual P3 500 Slot1(not a cost effective thing to upgrade), ATI AIW 128 PCI 16meg, some no name brand sound card that is equivalent to a audigy, 300 Watt PSU, maxtor 7200rpm 27 gig, maxtor 40 gig 5400rpm....)

So what i am doing is just doing a low end upgrade with in the next 3 months that will be more than sufficient to be able to play those games with medium-high quality settings. Im probably going to be going with AMD instead of intel and get a 2500+barton and a Hercules 9800 Pro 128 (the best)unless there is going to be a better card(more than likely there will be) out on the market by ATI(hopefully a new core for the ATI cards *R400*).

So happy buying and hope you are satisfied with your High-end Gaming Rig.

June 12, 2003 6:18:20 AM

Yes you are EXTREMELY missing out on the sound. Get a good 4.1 or 5.1 set

I just don't see the need to have surround sound in my room. I've got a tv for that. I don't watch movies on my PC. Although I'm sure it would enhance some of the games I play, I and much more satisfied just having a solid 2.1 speaker system.

Currently I have the Creative 2.1 $30 set and it's performed beautifully. I'm sure I will see a significant increase in quality with the Klipsch 2.1.

I would also get an Abit IC7 motherboard, I use one and it is excellent.

I don't have a need for an 875P board. If I were to go with Abit I would look at the IS7 with the 865PE chipset. But I don't mind paying an extra $15 for the Asus mobo. I know I would be getting a pretty solid board.

Quite a few changes:

<b>Case</b> Lian-Li Model PC-60H1S
<b>PSU</b> Fortron - FSP400PFN 400W

<b>Mobo</b> Asus P4P800
<b>CPU</b> P4 2.8c w/800 FSB
<b>Memory</b> (2)512mb Corsair XMS PC3500
<b>Video Card</b> Sapphire 9800 Pro 128mb
<b>Hard Drive</b> 120gb Seagate SATA 7200rpm
<b>CD Burner</b> Lite-On 52x24x52
<b>DVD Rom</b> Lite-On 16x
<b>Speakers</b> Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 THX
<b>Keyboard/Mouse</b> Logitech Cordless MX Duo

Total : <b>$1668.69</b>

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ltj311 on 06/12/03 02:36 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 13, 2003 3:23:33 AM

Very nice very nice. Now to spoil things Wd Sata 120 Gig to 250 Gig 7200 Rpm release date July. Now you have more to pick from. The prices should drop by the time your ready to buy.
June 13, 2003 3:50:10 AM

Western Digital is coming out with SATA drives? Excellent. Thanks for the heads-up Hardware.
June 14, 2003 3:36:10 AM

They have Sata 36 gig Hd 10,000 Rpm for around $145 Too much money for me. 10,000 speed is real nice. I'll wait for price to drop.
June 14, 2003 6:04:36 AM

I'm worried about how loud the 10k is. I would like to keep my PC as quiet as possible without compromising performance. And I'm not sure if the slight performance boost will outway the noise increase I would incur from it.
June 15, 2003 4:13:47 AM

Not sure on noise level. When I find any info I'll let you know.
July 2, 2003 10:49:44 AM

This looks to be my final draft:

<b>Case</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">CoolerMaster ATC-201B-SXK</A>(Retail)
<b>PSU</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">Fortron 400w</A>(Retail)
<b>Mobo</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">Asus P4P800 Deluxe</A>(Retail)
<b>CPU</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">P4 2.8c w/800fsb</A>(Retail)
<b>Memory</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">(2)512mb Corsair XMS PC3500</A>(OEM)
<b>Video Card</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">Sapphire 9800 Pro 128mb</A>(Retail)
<b>Hard Drive</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">Seagate 120gb SATA 7200rpm</A>(OEM) & <A HREF="" target="_new">SATA Cable</A>
<b>CD-RW</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">Lite-On 52x24x52</A>(Retail) w/<A HREF="" target="_new">Silver CM face plate</A>
<b>DVD-Rom</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">Lite-On 16x</A>(Retail) w/<A HREF="" target="_new">Silver CM face plate</A>
<b>Sound Card</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">Audigy 2</A>(OEM)
<b>Speakers</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">Klipsch 2.1 THX</A>(Retail)
<b>Mouse & Keyboard</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">Cordless Mx Duo</A>(Retail)
<b>MousePad</b> <A HREF="" target="_new">RatPadZGS</A>

<b>Total</b> = $1925.81(Everything but the Case, CD drive faceplates, and Mousepad are from

Would you suggest I change anything by middle of September? I figure nothing major will be released between now and September so I can just watch the price on this setup fall come purchase time. Then I will be able to upgrade to Prescott in H2 2004 when Tejas is released.

I'm guessing this setup will be around $1500 by the time I purchase it. Or is that being too optimistic?


"<i>I'm seriously you guys.</i>" - Cartman
July 3, 2003 3:21:48 AM

The way prices go up an down maybe you can get it all for $1500 by Sept. Going with Seagate instead of WD?
July 3, 2003 4:26:57 AM

Hey Hardware. Yea, the reason I'm going with Seagate is because the Raptor's are a little more pricey and I'm not even sure they have a 120gb SATA drive. We will see what happens between now and September.

I'm mostly excited about building my first computer. The PC I have now is a Compaq. Don't get me wrong, it's done it's job well. But I hate not being able to mess with the BIOS, and I want to be able to upgrade components which is hard with my current setup. I'm gonna do as much research on building that I can so I hopefully won't have to noob it up come "go" time.


"<i>I'm seriously you guys.</i>" - Cartman
July 3, 2003 6:02:00 PM

I will try to get my point across without sounding like a moron or seeming to disprove my point. As a user of a no-name 2.1 speaker system for my PC, I felt that you were spending too much money on your speakers, but you could be an audio freak, which is perfectly acceptable. Then, when someone said that you were missing out without the 4.1 or 5.1, you said you weren't too interested. That seemed to disprove audio freak part.

I feel that if you are going to upgrade your speakers, don't spend the money on the same type of speakers (2.1). Either keep your current speakers and pocket the cash (or spend it on something else), or get a nicer (more speakers) setup then you have now. I understand that the Klipsch are wonderful speakers, but with the 2.1 setup, they can only go so far in surpassing your current setup. Additionally, in games such as HL2 or UT2003, there isn't much time to stop and listen to the sound.

Finally, speakers are easy to upgrade in the future. That money could go to extra handfuls of HDD space, or to the next case model up, or to the 480W PS, or that stand alone DVD drive, something that isn’t practical to upgrade later.

Basically, I know that the Klipsch will be better speakers then your current ones, I just don't know if they will be $170 better.

However, if you feel that the Klipsch is what you want, then by all means buy them. I won’t think you any less of a person.

What's a signature? Oh, those words that show up after all my comments? I don't need one of those!
July 3, 2003 8:54:59 PM

If it was up to me, I'd just use the on board sound. Save the $78 for the time being.

I'm surprised that he 201a(no window) is only $12 cheaper than the 201b, so not much of a savings there. But, I've seen the Lian-Li PC-60 for less than $100, but that was on sale.

I'd also take an 9700 AIW over a 9800 pro. I save a measly $10, but I get all that nifty DVI capability and TV (the Remote Wonder is nice, too-- comes with)

But, that's just me. I'm not intending to rain on your parade. I value utility over raw performance. I guess I'm to computers what Alton Brown is to kitchen needs.


PS Good luck with that system.

<b><font color=red>Three great virtues of a programmer are: laziness, impatience, and hubris.</font color=red><b>
July 3, 2003 8:56:28 PM

I also for got to say. I got a chance to play around with those Seagate SATA drives, and they're pretty nifty, too.


<b><font color=red>Three great virtues of a programmer are: laziness, impatience, and hubris.</font color=red><b>
July 3, 2003 10:08:42 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys!

You make a valid point jef. I myself have wondered if $170 for 2.1 speakers are worth it. But after reading every review, I know I wouldn't be making a mistake.
I understand that the Klipsch are wonderful speakers, but with the 2.1 setup, they can only go so far in surpassing your current setup.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Right now I'm using some $40.00 creative labs 2.1 speakers. They are ok but by no means the sound quality I'm looking for. I want a powerful sub and the one I have now just doesn't cut it.

Also keep in mind that money is not really an object. I have until the middle of September to save up enough money and I don't plan on skimping in the features dept.

If it was up to me, I'd just use the on board sound. Save the $78 for the time being.

So you don't think the audigy 2 would be worth it? I have to believe that there would be a significant sound quality increase with the audigy 2 as opposed to on-board. Plus don't you think it would be a waste of good, quality speakers to just run them with on-board?

Thanks again for all your suggestions guys!


"<i>I'm seriously you guys.</i>" - Cartman
July 11, 2003 4:52:40 PM

As I said, no criticism for purchasing Klipsch speakers. It would be like giving someone a hard time for buying a Mercedes. Same with the Audigy. We aren't going to criticize it, but we wouldn't buy it with that setup. If you want it, go for it.

What's a signature? Oh, those words that show up after all my comments? I don't need one of those!
July 12, 2003 6:37:19 AM

Well, I already did about 4 days ago. Ordered sunday night, recieved the speakers wednesday afternoon. Thanks NewEgg!!!The sound quality is pretty stunning. Movies sound brilliant. I am not disappointed.

Although I definately need a new sound card as my SB Live! just seems to be holding these speakers back a little. I'm not quite happy with the bass distortion at higher volume. I've heard about how the smaller cable may hinder performance also. But in order to upgrade to bigger wiring, I would have to solder. Don't know about all that business.

Would I see a noticeable increase in quality/perf. upgrading to an Audigy 2? Or is cable size just as important or more?

Appreciate the responses guys.


"<i>I'm seriously you guys.</i>" - Cartman
July 12, 2003 8:40:20 AM

I don't think cable Size will make any difference as that only becomes important when the wire is transferring high Currents. However if the Cable appears to be of low quality this may be causing distortion, although I doubt Klipsch would use such a low quality cable. Anyway, even if you were to change the wire your amateur soldering (any manual soldering in fact) would be likely to weaken the signal so much as to male the replacement pointless.

<A HREF=" " target="_new">Almost Breaking 12k!!</A>
July 12, 2003 8:45:33 AM

They in-fact appear to be low-quality, and I've read reviews about this being one of the few negatives of the Klipsch 2.1 THX.

Would the quality of the soundcard then be the only variant in getting the best out of these high-quality speakers?

I guess I just feel like I need reassurance that my current setup is slightly hindering speaker performance.


"<i>I'm seriously you guys.</i>" - Cartman