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TECH: Strange AFM Light Behavior

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  • Games
  • Video Games
Last response: in Video Games
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July 8, 2005 5:42:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Well, the weirdness with my AFM's wiring continues. I'm starting to
think the machine is a victim of a poor wiring job. I'm hoping it's
easy to reverse without basically rewiring the entire thing, something
I'd end up having to pay for.

Here's what's hapenning now. I have a series of playfield insert
lights that are tied together. Here's the ties (if one goes on, so
does the other and vice versa):

Extra Ball = Attack Germany
Attack Italy = Atomic Blaster Jackpot
Attack France = I
Attack Mars = N

It goes on with a few more but I hope that gets the idea across.

I hope this is an easy fix...Anyone?

Brad

More about : tech strange afm light behavior

July 8, 2005 5:46:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Upon further inspection, it seems that Row 5 and Row 6 are crossed.
Whenever a lamp matrix column 5 light is on, so is a 6, and vice versa.

Oddly enough, there's a big arrow drawn in my manual on column 6 in two
places, as if this was serviced before.

Is it possible something bigger went wrong and rather a true fix they
just did a crummy splice to draw power from one column to work the
other?

Argh.
July 8, 2005 5:47:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Sorry, meant to say COLUMN 5 and COLUMN 6.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 6:08:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Sounds like you have a dead short between the 2 columns. Check every
socket and wire connection associated with those 2 columns. Are you
sure it's not a single column that remains lit (bad transistor stuck
on)? You could just replace the suspected bad transistors to eliminate
that possibilty (the matrix gives the ref des of the x-sistor).
July 8, 2005 6:13:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Yep, going through the lamp test, each of those 2 lamps lights in turn,
and only those 2 lamps. So when you test the extra ball lamp, you get
attack germany and extra ball blinking. When you test the attack
germany lamp, same thing. Just those 2 lights blinking.

It's almost as if only one column has power (not sure which one), so
whoever fixed this stuck the dead column on the good column and they
now share power, but of course also the properties during the game.
Makes for a confusing light show for a player.

I'm not a whiz at this, so the simpler the way to test, the better.
July 8, 2005 6:27:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Further info: There was definitely a repair done on Column 6, the
yellow/blue wire according to the manual. Where the wire comes off the
plug under the lamp board, it's joined to the yellow/blue wire via some
kind of shrink rubber thing. The colors match though so it seems like
a repair that should have worked...Though the better repair I assume is
having pure wire go into the connector, not a splice.

I can provide a photo of this plug if someone can help me more. Is
there a way to tell, in the manual, which wires are supposed to go to
which pins on that light board connector? I guess my next step is to
try and start tracing wires.
July 8, 2005 6:39:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Seems yellow/blue (col 6) and yellow/green (col 7) both snake around
and into the backbox in the mess of cables side by side.

If both were exposed and touching each other somewhere along the way,
would that cause the problem?
July 8, 2005 9:17:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

You might start with your lamp matrix in the manual and go to each insert
light and make sure the correct colored wires are on the socket.

Shouldn't take too long.

Good lighting or flashlight will help.

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

<gixxerdude1000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120856914.214521.179680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Sounds like you have a dead short between the 2 columns. Check every
> socket and wire connection associated with those 2 columns. Are you
> sure it's not a single column that remains lit (bad transistor stuck
> on)? You could just replace the suspected bad transistors to eliminate
> that possibilty (the matrix gives the ref des of the x-sistor).
>
July 8, 2005 10:20:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I doubt the manual will have it but you can simply look at the socket for a
given insert and follow the trace on the board to the pin and the correct
wire color should connect to that pin.

Insert----Socket----follow trace on lamp board----pin------wire color in the
connector for that pin-----then crosscheck against the lamp matrix in the
manual for the correct colored wire.

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"Brad" <bplevyak@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120858027.551468.21880@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I can provide a photo of this plug if someone can help me more. Is
> there a way to tell, in the manual, which wires are supposed to go to
> which pins on that light board connector? I guess my next step is to
> try and start tracing wires.
>
July 8, 2005 10:22:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It would but highly unlikely that the problem is in the bundle transitioning
from the cabient to the head.

Save the bundle for last. It is normally pretty well protected and not
messed with.

Focus your initial efforts under the playfield.


Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"Brad" <bplevyak@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120858777.525411.105240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> If both were exposed and touching each other somewhere along the way,
> would that cause the problem?
>
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 10:22:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

let's not count the mpu board out altogether....
it's possible that there could be a poor solder joint on the mpu board, that
spans across each trace.

Brad,
check the front and back of the board for previous work. see if there's
something spanning across the traces.

Jeremy

"Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:X%Cze.59724$du.44593@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> It would but highly unlikely that the problem is in the bundle
> transitioning from the cabient to the head.
>
> Save the bundle for last. It is normally pretty well protected and not
> messed with.
>
> Focus your initial efforts under the playfield.
>
>
> Otto
>
> CARGPB11
>
> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
>
> "Brad" <bplevyak@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1120858777.525411.105240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> If both were exposed and touching each other somewhere along the way,
>> would that cause the problem?
>>
>
>
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:39:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2005 14:13:46 -0700, "Brad" <bplevyak@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Yep, going through the lamp test, each of those 2 lamps lights in turn,
>and only those 2 lamps. So when you test the extra ball lamp, you get
>attack germany and extra ball blinking. When you test the attack
>germany lamp, same thing. Just those 2 lights blinking.

Does it work this way in all cases? If you turn on just lamp #57
(Attack Germany), does it have the same effect as turning on just lamp
#67 (Extra Ball)?

>It's almost as if only one column has power (not sure which one), so
>whoever fixed this stuck the dead column on the good column and they
>now share power, but of course also the properties during the game.
>Makes for a confusing light show for a player.
>
>I'm not a whiz at this, so the simpler the way to test, the better.

If you run the test above, hopefully it will tell us more information
about which is doing what.

--
+-- Bill Ung --------------------------------------------+
| ÁTTÁCK FROM MÁRS: Come here, tasty human!! |
| The ÁFM Mini-Saucer LED mod kits second run is coming |
| soon!! R*FM Mini-Saucer LED kits are also on the way! |
| Visit: http://www.ufopinball.com/ for more info... |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:44:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2005 14:27:07 -0700, "Brad" <bplevyak@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Further info: There was definitely a repair done on Column 6, the
>yellow/blue wire according to the manual. Where the wire comes off the
>plug under the lamp board, it's joined to the yellow/blue wire via some
>kind of shrink rubber thing. The colors match though so it seems like
>a repair that should have worked...Though the better repair I assume is
>having pure wire go into the connector, not a splice.
>
>I can provide a photo of this plug if someone can help me more. Is
>there a way to tell, in the manual, which wires are supposed to go to
>which pins on that light board connector? I guess my next step is to
>try and start tracing wires.

I don't think the manual will go into much detail about lamp boards
under the playfield.

If there is indeed a repair joint, there should only be one wire going
in, and one wire going out. If you have three wires in some form of
Y-joint connection, then I'd guess that's your problem.

You might also pull the board and verify that no hack jobs were done
on the other side.

--
+-- Bill Ung --------------------------------------------+
| ÁTTÁCK FROM MÁRS: Come here, tasty human!! |
| The ÁFM Mini-Saucer LED mod kits second run is coming |
| soon!! R*FM Mini-Saucer LED kits are also on the way! |
| Visit: http://www.ufopinball.com/ for more info... |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:45:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2005 14:39:37 -0700, "Brad" <bplevyak@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Seems yellow/blue (col 6) and yellow/green (col 7) both snake around
>and into the backbox in the mess of cables side by side.
>
>If both were exposed and touching each other somewhere along the way,
>would that cause the problem?

Yes...

--
+-- Bill Ung --------------------------------------------+
| ÁTTÁCK FROM MÁRS: Come here, tasty human!! |
| The ÁFM Mini-Saucer LED mod kits second run is coming |
| soon!! R*FM Mini-Saucer LED kits are also on the way! |
| Visit: http://www.ufopinball.com/ for more info... |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
July 9, 2005 10:05:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I had a similar situation with my AFM when I brought it home. It
turned out that two transistor heads were touching in the backbox and
it caused certain lamps to light at the same time just as you are
describing Brad. I spread them out and that solved the problem.

Chris
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:30:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I have had similar problems that ended up being the wiring to a lamp
socket. they had put the wire on the wrong end of the diode. the EB may
be the only one you mentioned that is a socket, but I would check all
lights for proper diode orientation. and maybe unplug light boards one
at a time and see if the problems with other lights are corrected.-DNO-
July 9, 2005 9:09:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

And the winner is....ChrisH!

I have to thank you all for taking the time to reply to this thread. I
don't know what I'd do without all of you with these game bugs!

The transistors indeed were touching, and it was a VERY simple fix,
thank goodness. Makes you wonder what a tech would have charged me to
come out and do that. ;) 

At any rate, I did manage to take apart and clean each and every lamp
board in the process, as well, so now the playfield looks even brighter
than ever.

I did some messing with the lane switch, and the ball does shoot faster
off the shooter lane now, too.

Got the LED in my mothership replaced so they're now all red and
working.

Now Bill, I just need you to sell me a mini saucer LED kit! :) 

Oh, and I still need to figure out that annoying, nagging weak/improper
flasher problem. If anyone with an AFM at home has about 5 minutes to
go through the flasher test with me and document it here, or even let
me give you a call (on my dime) let me know. It's bugging me.

Thanks again to all who replied to this thread!!

Brad
July 10, 2005 10:21:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Great Brad! I am glad that I could help instead of just lurking and
stealing help from everyone on the group. I don't know where I'd be
without these guys.

ChrisH
July 11, 2005 2:46:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It was a great catch.

Nice job.

Stow that one in the ole wet computer.

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"ChrisH" <chaznap@ptdprolog.net> wrote in message
news:1121044890.970452.266560@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Great Brad! I am glad that I could help instead of just lurking and
> stealing help from everyone on the group. I don't know where I'd be
> without these guys.
!