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Dilemma

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July 13, 2003 10:15:46 PM

Ok, i really need a new computer from my 466 mhz celeron. so im looking to buy a computer, but im hearing things about 64 bit processors and how its the next big thing, so im waiting to buy my new pc cuz i dunt want it to get outdated. so im looking into a athlon 64, so my question is how much is a midrange amd64 gonna cost? and is it worth waiting for the amd 64 to come out. im going to be using it for gaming mostly fps. this comp is gunna have to last me at least 4 yrs cuz im only 14 and i cant upgrade that often.

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July 13, 2003 10:55:21 PM

Quote:
is it worth waiting for the amd 64 to come out.

Ahhh, the 64-million dollar question. We don't know that really... and having to last 4 years is a hard one.

My advice: unless you want it now, save up some more money and get ready to buy your system by Christmas, or maybe very early 2004. New processors - and I mean highly upgraded cores - are coming from both Intel and AMD. It might be interesting for you to just sit and watch. But, hey, as gaming is a very important thing for survival, if you want it now, go for a low-end Pentium 4 "C" on a mobo that supports prescott... And you can upgrade later. That's what I would do, for sure. (the interesting point in waiting: Doom 3 isn't out yet... personally, I'm waiting till Christmas and getting a full-blown out-of-this-world system!!! :cool: )

Anyone out there has a thought or two on that?... I can't think of anything else here...

<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
July 13, 2003 11:04:29 PM

P4 'C' is the only way to go right now

or a 1.466 t-bred B over clocked to 2.2 on a nforce2 if u wanna go real cheap n dirty
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July 14, 2003 12:28:53 AM

Intel 2.4c $174 one heck of a Cpu for overclocking. Plus as Meph said Intel mobo are upgradeable to the new Prescott chips. 3.4 an 3.6 Ghz. AMD A64 to early to tell. Depends on how soon you want your new Puter. How much can you spend?
July 14, 2003 9:30:47 PM

Indeed...should one wait or buy now ?!?!

A PC lasting around 4 years ?? whats wrong with that ?

I've only ever owned 2 PC's in my life...my first PC was a 486SX 25Mhz which I had for approx 8 years (great for running MS Word 2).

My second PC which I am still using !! is a k6-2 333Mhz. Heck I only using my PC for web surfing, Office 2000 and playing the ocassional Mp3 + vid. Although I have to admit it is starting to get a bit cranky when loading complex web pages i.e with applets and lots of high res pics.

In fact I could go out and buy the lastest P4 3.2Ghz system if I wanted to but that would just be a waste of computing power. Most people's PC sit idle 80% of the time as running IE, Netscape, Opera, Mozilla or any other webrowser isn't really the most demanding of apps..(by the way I'm using Netscape 7.1 at the moment on my K6-2 even though its a tad slower than IE6).

Ha Ha ! I remember developing ASP pages using Macromedia InterDev and Personal Oracle 8 on my k6-2 for my university project...I even used it as a web server to host my finished Music CD E-Commerce site on a home LAN (2-3 pc's) and had people streaming Real Audio files off of it ! Athough it did crash a lot but I'm sure that was down to crappy MS Personal WebServer rather than the PC itself.

anyway back to the subject....

However things might be about to change...personally Im waiting to see how the A64 vs. Prescott battle turns out and may buy myself a new PC in a years time so I can get back into gaming + video editing.

I'm sure my little 'ol K6-2 333Hz will hold out till then :wink: but as you can tell I'm not really bothered, as long as I still surf the web. :) 

<b>I'm more interested in the hype and science/theory surrounding new CPU's instead of being the first one to buy the latest new gadget.</b>

Which is why I have a soft spot for AMD right now as they are transforming the outdated home PC architecture to one that utilises HyperTransport connectivity, memory controller integration and introducing x86-64.

We shall see if AMD64/Hammer is pure hype or something significant with the release of AMD 64 Windows XP.

As for Intel....they'll be top dog for a long time to come and continue beating the crap out of AMD. It all depends on how much 'beating' AMD can take before collasping into a pile of green goo...or any other type of waste product you can thing of. :smile:

<b>....you know what I would do in your postion compn00b ? I'd wait till the A64 comes out and then buy yourself a dirt cheap Athlon XP / Nforce2 system as AMD are bound to slash prices on them, likewise for Intel/Prescott...go buy a Top Spec P4 system when prescott it released. That way your money will go much further.</b>


<font color=purple>Ladies and Gentlemen, its...Hammer Time !</font color=purple><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mr_gobbledegook on 07/14/03 05:40 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 14, 2003 9:37:30 PM

The age old question for all homebuilders... Buy now, or wait for the next big thing? Trust me, there will ALWAYS be a next big thing. It really comes down to what kind of person you are. You can either pay out the bunghole for the newest, sexiest hardware, or you can buy the stuff that's a few months old, but has dropped on price considerably from when it was the newest and sexiest. So, you could wait for the Athlon64 and pay through the nose for it, or, you could buy a regular Athlon XP after the Athlon64 is released (at a much cheaper price than today, I'm sure), or you could go ahead and take the plunge now and still end up with a great system. 64-bit is not going to cause 32-bit to become useless, especially with Intel not having an x86 compatible 64-bit solution.

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Armadillo<font color=orange>[</font color=orange><font color=green>TcC</font color=green><font color=orange>]</font color=orange> at Lanwar and MML
July 14, 2003 10:21:43 PM

ok so what im thinking about doing is buying a good 865pe mobo like asus or msi, and get like a 2.6c or 2.8c, and when necessary, get a prescott? btw thanks u guys have been a great help to me
July 14, 2003 10:26:03 PM

Yes, that would be very interesting, if you were to buy a system now. That's your best choice, the way I see it! :smile: Try to get ASUS. They guarantee Prescott support all around their web site, mention it many times inside the manual, and so on... They probably adhered to the new prescott-specific voltage specs. Either that, or they are very bold lyars.

<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
July 14, 2003 10:29:43 PM

ok cool i think thats wut imma do, thanks for the quick reply. but r there gunna be any new faster mobos released specifically for prescott that will make a significant performance gain?
July 14, 2003 10:44:47 PM

I'm guessing here, but I think that major gains in performance because of mobo change will only occur again in early 2004, when Grantsdale, with its DDR-2 memory system, arrives. There is no major chipset coming in the next several months or so, as far as I know.

<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
July 14, 2003 10:45:43 PM

<<ok cool i think thats wut imma do, thanks for the quick reply. but r there gunna be any new faster mobos released specifically for prescott that will make a significant performance gain?>>

It wouldn't be wise to wait for the initial Prescott boards that support Socket478 because they will become obsolete within less than six months of their release. This is because Intel will switch to a new socket type by Q2 2004. I don't know who in their right mind is going to buy one of these "new/sexy" S478 Prescott boards knowing it will have a 6-month lifespan (this reinforces my belief that the current rumor of Prescott incompatibility w/ 865PE/875 is FALSE).

My advice is get a nice motherboard and 2 sticks of good PC3200 DDR RAM. ASUS is the one company whose website/manuals seem to guarantee Prescott compatibility, so that may be the way to go... but on the other hand ABIT makes slightly faster boards for significantly less. As far as RAM, get two sticks to take full advantage of PAT and dual-channel (Features on the new Intel boards), be it 2x256MB or 2x512MB (I'd recommend the latter if you plan on using it for four years... I can't see 512MB cutting it in early 2007!!). You can pick up a P4 2.4C and try overclocking to 3GHz, and even if it can't do it, you'll still have 800FSB and HyperThreading, which is probably more future-proof than even the most expensive AMD chip.

BTW, we're in about the same position; I'm 15 years old and looking to upgrade to a 865PE/P4RevC system this summer myself. Good luck!
July 14, 2003 11:13:46 PM

Yes, either buy a current P4P800 now or wait until Socket T (775-ball-array or something) to become available. That's it.

<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
July 14, 2003 11:32:58 PM

<<Yes, either buy a current P4P800 now or wait until Socket T (775-ball-array or something) to become available. That's it.>>

Exactly right, and remember that by the time Socket 775 boards come out AND there are new Socket 775 P5's are cheap enough (under $250 would be my definition) to consider as an option, it may very well be the end of 2004. All the people saying "wait to upgrade, revolutionary changes are right around the corner" are forgetting that for those who aren't willing to pay extreme amounts of money for that technology when it's bleeding edge, it's NOT right around the corner. As such, I'd say now may be as good or better a time to upgrade than anytime in the next 12-18 months for users on a budget.
July 15, 2003 2:17:50 AM

ok thx yea i was just wondering about socket 775 and how prescotts would be compatible with the p4p800. so the only prescotts that will work with the p4p800 are those 478s that'll become obsolete?
July 15, 2003 2:26:40 AM

Wait a minute now... Yes, they will become obsolete, just like any computer tech we have now will be completely obsolete within 5 years or so. But Prescott is not even new yet, it's unreleased! Intel is planning on getting the 3.2, 3.4Ghz and the 3.6Ghz Prescott out with s478, at least! They might even release some more later, depending on how things go. Now if you go buy a P4P800 NOW, it's quite simply the best investment because you could upgrade to AT LEAST a 3.6Ghz Prescott later (if the +15% performance per clock increase claimed by intel holds, that's equivalent to a 4.2Ghz Northwood or so)... So this is the best investment right now, period. Current Athlon alternatives are not upgradeable at all.

What we meant is this: if you want a mobo NOW, get one that supports prescott. If you wait until the end of the year, then wait until socket 775 - don't buy a P4P800 by Christmas to run Prescott! Buy a Northwood now, upgrade later, OR wait for socket 775. That's it...

<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
July 15, 2003 2:38:02 AM

Heck if he can wait til mid 2004 he mite as well by Grantsdale Mobo an Tejas. Now that will add to his Dilemma!!!
July 15, 2003 2:47:54 AM

YES! That is what I mean! :smile:

NO! I'm not trying to add to his dilemma... :frown:

What I said was this:

Want your system NOW? Within the next few weeks? Or few months? Get a P4P800 and upgrade later to Prescott. If you are on a budget, you can wait until October - Prescott's arrival will make prices on the "C" northwood to fall like rocks. Get a P4P800 by then, with a NORTHWOOD, and then upgrade to prescott by 2004, whenever needed.

<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
July 15, 2003 2:53:13 AM

Ya I know what you ment. I was just adding to his dilemma. Since he was the one that started a post with dilemma.
July 15, 2003 5:52:49 AM

It would be intersting to see the backward-compatible issues with it. It is definetly going to be the next big thing, but it is still far away. BTW: I'm 15. :smile:
July 15, 2003 2:47:20 PM

dont worry meph, u've been a great help, ur not adding to my dilemma, ur just helping me make sure i have all the info before i make my decision. im also considering instead of waiting for socket 778, waiting for a64. but r they going to change their plans or sumthing and change their socket? :p  sry im really bad at comps
July 15, 2003 2:54:33 PM

According to <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10474" target="_new">this article</A> in The Inquirer today (yes.a pinch of salt may be required!) AMD are planning to release initial Athlon 64s on socket 940 like the opteron and later change to socket 939.The budget Athlon 64s with 512kb cache instead of 1mb will be socket 754 apparently.
...So I'm afraid there is an awful lot to be confused about as far as sockets and waiting are concerned!!!

no matter how hard you try, you can't polish a turd. :]
July 15, 2003 3:04:34 PM

Ah, yes, the Inquirer always deserves at least a pinch of salt... And lately, Xbitlabs and anandtech too!

One thing, though: isn't the budget A64 equipped with only 256KB cache, instead of 512KB?...

<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
July 15, 2003 3:16:22 PM

Quote:
One thing, though: isn't the budget A64 equipped with only 256KB cache, instead of 512KB?

Hmmm.I'm sure I read that it was 512KB somewhere today (i thought it was on The Inquirer) but I can't find it now so maybe I am wrong!Let me know if you find out.I think 512KB is logical though because the other A64s are to have 1mb aren't they?

no matter how hard you try, you can't polish a turd. :]
July 15, 2003 3:21:02 PM

Oh!Hang on!Got it!<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10353" target="_new">Here it is</A>.It says it near the bottom.Admittedly it is The Inquirer again but i think they can be trusted on something like this.

no matter how hard you try, you can't polish a turd. :]
July 16, 2003 3:19:31 AM

Ya I read that somewhere with their Budget A64 256k cache. It also said it would be faster. I could not figure that out with less cache being a faster cpu. But thats AMD pr.
July 16, 2003 3:57:04 AM

Quote:
you know what I would do in your postion compn00b ? I'd wait till the A64 comes out and then buy yourself a dirt cheap Athlon XP / Nforce2 system as AMD are bound to slash prices on them, likewise for Intel/Prescott...go buy a Top Spec P4 system when prescott it released. That way your money will go much further

I'd have to totally concur with that assesment-- I would have written it if you haven't. Basically immune to technology creep.

Probably becuase you and I have similar computing experiences. I used my 486 SX 25 from 1993 to 1999. Then I happened upon a P166 based desktop, which soon had a k6-III 450 (running at 400 with the 2x multiplier) That i430VX (thankfully) soon gave up the ghost and now its a K6XV3+ /66.

I had to switch to a faster machine because, well, faster CPU's compile code faster and my tuner/capture card didn't play nice with the VIA MVP3 chipset, plus my wife insited (can you imagine? What a girl! <i>"We need a better PC! You need to build us a better PC!"</i>).

I still use the K6-III as my PC to do dangerous things on (trying out software, occasional P2P, all my games (The most recent game I own is Rollercoaster Tycoon, so that tells you what kind of gamer I am).

Epilogue:
Now, I have 5 computers.
The K6-III 450, a K6-2 500*, a Celeron 466*, a Duron 1.1 GHz (its waiting for a Barton), and a P166* notebook (my firewall/router/WAP). Maybe I should mash them all into a cluster. . .

* Some parts from upgrades where customer did not want the original part, but mostly salvaged (like the notebook). Its amazing what people throw away these days..

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<b><font color=red>Three great virtues of a programmer are: laziness, impatience, and hubris.</font color=red><b>
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