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Williams Space Shuttle Disaster

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July 11, 2005 6:43:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Sold my Space Shuttle this weekend. Great shape and played like new.
Guy came over on Saturday to check it out. Loved it. Never owned a
pinball before but has always wanted one. Sunday he comes back with
$875 and his 12 year old son. We play pinball, talk pinball and drink a
few cokes. I'm really happy for this guy. He's getting a great machine
I've loved for five years. We load it onto his trailor, shake hands,
exchange smiles, say goodbye. Fast-forward twenty minutes. Phone rings.
It's the guy. Says he was crossing some RR tracks, taking it easy,
driving like an old man. There was a sound, checked the mirror, saw the
backbox hitting the pavement. Backglass shattered. Backbox splintered.
Wiring harnesses torn apart. The bolts securing the backbox to the
cabinet are still holding the bottom piece of the backbox in place.
Guys heart is broken. Mine too. Guy said he didn't know why he called
me. I do. Love of Pinball.
Matt B.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 6:53:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Sorry to hear that.

I would have to question how EXACTLY you packed this thing up however.
Whenever I have moved a pin the legs come off the head is folded down
and shrink wrapped in place with padding between the head and rails and
thus there is no way the head could come off in this type of disaster.

Al
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 6:54:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Oh yeah, I forgot, balls come out. Don't forget that!
Related resources
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 6:58:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

If he needs a replacement head for the game, I believe
I have one floating around here somewhere. No good glass
but I may have other pieces, too.

Just ask actual shipping fee or have it picked up.

Hate to see one of these die.

Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
=================================

mattyb wrote:
The bolts securing the backbox to the
> cabinet are still holding the bottom piece of the backbox in place.
> Guys heart is broken. Mine too. Guy said he didn't know why he called
> me. I do. Love of Pinball.
> Matt B.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 6:59:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

That is tragic. How could the thing have disintegrated like that? Was
it raining? Was the backbox up or down? Some people just weren't
meant to own a pinball, I guess.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 6:59:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Sounds like you should have spent some time telling him how to fold it
up and transport it. If the guy was local, it wouldnt have hurt to help
em out and deliver it or atleast if he disassembled it, help him set er
up.

Sorry if i sound harsh, and i do feel for the guy, but you shouldve
told him to fold it up or take the extra steps to make sure he gets his
investment home. Not to mention that all manuals do say " never
transport with head in the upright position"

The least you could do now is either help em out with the parting out
of the game, or finding a new head and parts to go along with it.

John
jdubbbs
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 7:00:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Doh!! The head wasn't folded down or removed???
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 7:04:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I have the fire hose ready when the flames hit :>)
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 7:12:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

mattyb wrote:

> Guys heart is broken. Mine too.

Sad, indeed, and particularly so since the accident was eminently
preventable. Any game in which the head can be removed from the lower
cab *should* have it removed for transport. This is particularly true
for EM's since the heads weigh so much and the glue holding them
together can become brittle with age. For an SS like your game, the
risk may have been less, but obviously it was still there. It must
have been pretty awful for that father to have to explain this to his
12 year old son. Hopefully, and with the help of good samaritans like
Fred, he'll be able to put the pieces back together again.

- Josh A.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 7:20:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Wait a sec... are you saying that you let the guy move the
game *with* the head bolted to the lower cabinet? if this
is the case, you owe him $875.

it says, clear as day, right in the manual of like any
pinball machine, the first 3 pages, 'do not transport
game with backbox attached'. they say that for a reason

now if the backbox was not attached, ignore this.

mattyb wrote:
> Sold my Space Shuttle this weekend. Great shape and played like new.
> Guy came over on Saturday to check it out. Loved it. Never owned a
> pinball before but has always wanted one. Sunday he comes back with
> $875 and his 12 year old son. We play pinball, talk pinball and drink a
> few cokes. I'm really happy for this guy. He's getting a great machine
> I've loved for five years. We load it onto his trailor, shake hands,
> exchange smiles, say goodbye. Fast-forward twenty minutes. Phone rings.
> It's the guy. Says he was crossing some RR tracks, taking it easy,
> driving like an old man. There was a sound, checked the mirror, saw the
> backbox hitting the pavement. Backglass shattered. Backbox splintered.
> Wiring harnesses torn apart. The bolts securing the backbox to the
> cabinet are still holding the bottom piece of the backbox in place.
> Guys heart is broken. Mine too. Guy said he didn't know why he called
> me. I do. Love of Pinball.
> Matt B.
July 11, 2005 7:20:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

BWAGNER5150 wrote:
> Doh!! The head wasn't folded down or removed???

Hi Ben,

Yes, the head should have been removed. The Space Shuttle does not have
a hinged head, it just bolts down like a EM style.

Very sad story indeed.

Karl.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 7:25:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

However I remember when I bought my first pin, I knew nothing and did
not want to remove the head. I was afraid that I would never get the
boards all hooked back up right. So I drove it home with the head
attached. I am not advocating it and wont do so now but this could be
the case.

Mike
July 11, 2005 7:28:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Game was transported with legs on, backbox in upright state. I had no
ides something like this could happen. His trailor was a bit ricketty,
which may have created a rocking motion. Matt B.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 7:40:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Legs on? Wow.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 7:44:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi Karl,

Hope all is well. Sad for sure :( 

Ben
July 11, 2005 7:44:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thanks for the offer Fred. I'm trying to contact him now. I'm thinking
of trading him my working Flash for what is left of the Space Shuttle.
Atleast then he'll have a machine to play while Space Shuttle is
rebuilt.

Matt B.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 8:03:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

yes i can see that, but the way around that is to unbolt the
head, and lay it down against the bottom cabinet. no connectors
to remove. then shrink wrap it to the lower cab or strap it.
or heck just leave it there. better than leaving it errect.

and the guy selling the game was no newbie. he had several
games, owned them a while. i think he's just as responsible.
maybe they split the different at $433 each of resonsibility.
what does the guy have for $875? he's a newbie, he probably
can't get a new head (from Fred, which was a nice offer!)
and re-attach the wiring harness. not to mention the BG.

think about the torque of it, leaving the head up. it could
get 'whipping' around from the top-end weight and just RIP
itself off without any trouble. especially on a 4 player
EM game or say, Space shuttle. like that spanned bridge
accident in the 1950s you always see on the Discovery channel.

caligallagher@yahoo.com wrote:
> However I remember when I bought my first pin, I knew nothing and did
> not want to remove the head. I was afraid that I would never get the
> boards all hooked back up right. So I drove it home with the head
> attached. I am not advocating it and wont do so now but this could be
> the case.
>
> Mike
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 8:16:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

mattyb wrote:

> Game was transported with legs on, backbox in upright state. I had no
> ides something like this could happen.

Well, now you do. Maybe one of the engineers here can explain the
physics involved when a delicate object is subjected to the g forces
created by an accelerating motor vehicle without adequate bracing. The
best comparison I can think of is what it felt like to ride shotgun in
a vintage muscle car that had a manual transmission and no head rests
which was being driven by my 17-year-old nephew. My neck was
practically wrenched from my shoulders every time we left a stoplight,
and it absolutely served me right just for getting in the car.

- Josh A.
July 11, 2005 8:33:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

If you must haul a pin with the head up, you need to strap the head
fairly tight to the cab of the truck. Also strap around the front of
the legs to hold the lower cabinet in place. I dont do it this way, but
Ive seen a couple hundred hauled this way by op's.
This is on a truck where the cab limits back and forth motion. On a
trailer, its almost impossible to stop it from swaying.
I also have sold games to people that did NOT want the game torn down.
If that was the case,and I had strongly suggested tearing it down and
they refused again, I would wash my hands of it.

For what its worth, being a softy, I have a Space shutttle backglass,
that is very presentable. Its artwork is great everywhere, except the
bottom where its missing about 11/2" along the bottom. You could paint
this in, but you wouldnt have the lower feature lights. Better than
nothing.
You can have it for actual shipping from NC.

Dan
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 8:41:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Dan

This is a great offer. Not to mention Freds offer of a head. I would
guess all the main work is going to be the wiring harness, which is now
destroyed. Great gester Fred an Dan , my hats off to ya.

John
jdubbbs
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 9:26:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

This is why I love rgp. This was a tragic incident, yet people who
don't even know this person (Fred and Dan) are offering to at least
make a tragic situation for a newbie alot easier to bear. As John
said, hats off to you guys for stepping up to offer your parts.

Mike K
San Jose
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 9:28:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Being a novice at this, I would have taken the legs off, but wouldn't have
dreamed that the backbox would just come apart like that. I even seen the
arcade guys transport them with the head still on them. But if I do buy a
machine, I will take the backbox off. Thanks
Malcom
"mattyb" <mdbrinst@sentara.com> wrote in message
news:1121118191.285181.189270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Sold my Space Shuttle this weekend. Great shape and played like new.
> Guy came over on Saturday to check it out. Loved it. Never owned a
> pinball before but has always wanted one. Sunday he comes back with
> $875 and his 12 year old son. We play pinball, talk pinball and drink a
> few cokes. I'm really happy for this guy. He's getting a great machine
> I've loved for five years. We load it onto his trailor, shake hands,
> exchange smiles, say goodbye. Fast-forward twenty minutes. Phone rings.
> It's the guy. Says he was crossing some RR tracks, taking it easy,
> driving like an old man. There was a sound, checked the mirror, saw the
> backbox hitting the pavement. Backglass shattered. Backbox splintered.
> Wiring harnesses torn apart. The bolts securing the backbox to the
> cabinet are still holding the bottom piece of the backbox in place.
> Guys heart is broken. Mine too. Guy said he didn't know why he called
> me. I do. Love of Pinball.
> Matt B.
>
July 11, 2005 9:53:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Dan, I may take you up on the backglass offer. I'm amazed at the
generosity of RGPer's. You guys are great! And I agree with you
blasters that I as the collector should have known better. The more I
think about it the more foolish I feel. I am going to give him my Flash
and hopefully get his Space Shuttle operational again. Matt B.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 11:42:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Good move- Flash is a fantastic game and even though it's not what he
wanted he and the kid should enjoy it. If you manage to rebuild that
space shuttle are you going to offer to trade it back?

mattyb wrote:
> Dan, I may take you up on the backglass offer. I'm amazed at the
> generosity of RGPer's. You guys are great! And I agree with you
> blasters that I as the collector should have known better. The more I
> think about it the more foolish I feel. I am going to give him my Flash
> and hopefully get his Space Shuttle operational again. Matt B.
July 12, 2005 12:06:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

No. I'm letting him keep the Flash no matter what. I figure even with
these generous offers by RGPers it's going to cost him 400-600 to get
the game right again. As the pin collector, I shouldn't have let this
newbie drive off with the game fully assembled on a wobbly trailor.
It's a mistake I'll never make again. Matt B.
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 2:09:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Whatever you decide is fine. It's not
going anyplace soon.

Let me know! ;) 

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************

"mattyb" <mdbrinst@sentara.com> wrote in message news:1121121860.435602.197740@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the offer Fred. I'm trying to contact him now. I'm thinking
> of trading him my working Flash for what is left of the Space Shuttle.
> Atleast then he'll have a machine to play while Space Shuttle is
> rebuilt.
>
> Matt B.
>
July 12, 2005 2:27:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

only thing that aproached this for me was when I was transporting a
Spin a Card in a stinking rotten tiny trailer, and I stupidly hooked
the strapdowns to the corners of the cabinet....you got it, the
leverage just pulled the cabinet sides apart and the playfield fell
right down into it with a thud. Oh well I was able to fix the cabinet
but that's the last time I did that...Frenchy
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 7:29:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Well done Matt. I'll bet there is more than one reader who's learned a
valuable lesson from your mistake.

I know I was shocked how much force was generated by trying to hang on
to a tablesaw in the open back of a pickup. We only went about 300 yards
but the one curve almost flipped me and the saw out on the street. It
was really all I could do to hang on while this guy, who I didn't know,
drove me and the saw up to my house from the yard sale where I bought
it. He was only going about 25 but I could feel my grip giving way just
before the curve ended. Top heavy items behave very differently when you
get them moving down the street!

bogart
www.pinrestore.com


mattyb wrote:
> No. I'm letting him keep the Flash no matter what. I figure even with
> these generous offers by RGPers it's going to cost him 400-600 to get
> the game right again. As the pin collector, I shouldn't have let this
> newbie drive off with the game fully assembled on a wobbly trailor.
> It's a mistake I'll never make again. Matt B.
>
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 8:31:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

That's weird my space shuttle folds down like the newer sys11's.....
wonder if that's when they made the change?
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 8:54:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

No big wow there. Operators back in those days often transported the games
with legs on and head up, and machine tied down.
Never lost a one with the op I did PT work for. This stuff is getting older
though now and the back box joints may be weaking!

--
Home Page: www.geocities.com/d_overturf
Replies regarding News Group messages to me may get a challenge verifier
back. (CHAP).
The Sender may be >
Subject: [Challenge Response] Confirm your email by visiting this URL
https://smtp.stowetel.com/challenge/... SomeURL.
If so you need to Click on the link in the challenge and do what it says.
This is usually a one time deal.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


<caligallagher@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121121611.947473.220610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Legs on? Wow.
>
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 9:15:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I have a Space Shuttle cabinet and backbox in good condition. Woodwork
is very sound and the artwork is slightly faded but very minimal
scratches. Pictures available. Harnesses are good but no boards. I
imagine there must have been damage to the boards and or harnesses when
the head was yanked off.
Sorry, no backglass.
Parts are here in NH.
You can also look me up on Mr. Pinball.
I may have a clearing house sale soon because we may be moving. I own
17 pins and are only taking 5. Lots of parts here too, cabinets,
backboxes, ect...
K
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 9:19:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

That's because you're experienced moving the pins this way. A newbie
wouldn't be. I don't think it's something that shouldn't be
overemphasized. It IS incompetence IMO to allow a person not used to
moving the pins that way to do so. How you pack and load the machines
is immaterial to what happened/what could happen with future movers,
and as more and more people get first pins, this might become more
common. And, remember, the sky IS falling! ;) 
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 12:35:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Here again I must say proper equipment! Thats really said what happened
tho. No way in hell I would have tried to haul anything valuable with
less than good equipment!
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 6:25:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul, pinlicious wrote:
> i think it is BIGTIME incompetence.
>
> would you ever move a game you CARED about with the head up? legs on?

I have plenty of times. I wouldn't take it multiple states away, but I've
taken my own games upwards of a couple hours that way. Sounds like this
deal was not very far.

> ops and resellers have done more extreme incompetent actions in the
> past, so nothing they do suprises me anymore, but for a guy who
> COLLECTS games, there is just no reason in the world good enough that
> is gonna convince me that moving games with heads up and legs on is
> EVER a good thing.

To each his own.


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.
July 12, 2005 9:15:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Just had to change the title for tomorrows launch, GodSpeed NASA, crew,
and shuttle!

GodSpeed! Karl.
July 12, 2005 9:32:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Fortunately I am back in Florida working at Cape Canaveral for the next
two weeks. I will be up on a roof VERY close to the Shuttle as it
launches. It is so loud up there it is unreal! I have many friends
who work on the Shuttle and I will have my fingers crossed.

When we launch un-manned Titan rockets our butts are so puckered you
couldn't drive a BB up there with a jackhammer. The shuttle launches
have people on board and are way more nerve racking. Hopefully it will
be a perfect, on-time launch.

God speed!!

John
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 3:35:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

> Pinball skates + liftgate + leaving the head on - I can load a pin solo in
> about 5 minutes depending on how hard it is to get it out of the house
> (including my own beloved black hole). Each step in head/leg removal and
> wrap job would take that long or longer. If everyone were to disassemble
> and wrap all the pins "properly" pin-a-go-go wouldn't be able to start
until
> mid-day saturday instead of friday at noon, and we would have to tear down
> saturday evening. Either that, or take wed/thurs and mon/tues off work.
I
> have heard of catastrophes involving pins being bought at pinagogo and
> leaving, but have never heard of a problem with pins getting from a
> collection and returning to a collection. Which is no guarantee that it
> hasn't happened, and not an endorsement for the "leave head and legs on"
> method. Again, this is only in the context of having to move a large
number
> of pins in a short period of time, and also having enclosed trailors or
van
> trucks to move them in. When I do onesy twosy stuff in my pickup it is
legs
> off, but I still have a tendency to leave unhinged heads up. I will be
> checking all the gluelines from now on though.

EGADS! I would NEVER even think of moving a pin with the legs on or backbox
up...especially just for the sake of saving time. Do you even strap it to
the truck? Or does that take too long as well? ;-)

I have no sympathy for someone that loses a game because they are too lazy
to transport it correctly. I can set up a game in 5 minutes by myself that
has it's legs off, head strapped down and standing on end with just an
appliance dolly.

It's a wonder more games don't get lost on the highway along with all those
coolers, folding chairs and tarps you see on the shoulder.

--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI

Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/4hfev
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/39cjo
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
--------------------------------------------
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 9:15:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"Mike Schudel" <schudel5@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11d930tbggmo296@corp.supernews.com...
> EGADS! I would NEVER even think of moving a pin with the legs on or
> backbox
> up...especially just for the sake of saving time. Do you even strap it to
> the truck? Or does that take too long as well? ;-)
Actually no. We are talking about a 24' enclosed trailer in this case.
Typically put a single strap between each row of 3 pins to keep them from
shifting too much.

Andy.
July 13, 2005 10:43:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

mattyb wrote:
> Game was transported with legs on, backbox in upright state. I had no
> ides something like this could happen.

You know, they do put the warning on the back of the backbox for a reason!

In case it's not on your machine, it says :

"NEVER transport this game with the backbox erect".

(or something like that).

NEVER EVER transport a game with the backbox upright, the centre of
gravity is all off and you are just ASKING for trouble.
!