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New System-Getting Close to Buy Time

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July 21, 2003 7:38:21 PM

I'm picking this baby up sometime next week I think. So critisism at this point is critical. Shoot me down on anything.

AMD Barton 2500+ 333FSB
Asus A7N8x-DX nForce2-ST, AGP8x, A133, S-ATA, i1394,Dual-DDR400, Audio,Dual-Lan, 6USB2
Radeon 9600 Pro 128M DDR, VGA, DVI, TV-O, AGP8x
Kingston DDR-PC3200: 400mhz (256MB x2 & 512MB x1)
Western Digital WD1200JB: 120GB 7200rpm, ATA100, 9ms, Caviar, 8M
Viewsonic P95F+ /-B 19" 0.25mm Flat-CRT 2048x1536 / BLACK
Lite-On DVD 16x eide BLACK
Lite-ON 52x24x52x IDE Internal w/ Burn Proof (BLACK)
Creative Inspire 6.1 6600 6 Speakers w/subwoofer
Logitech Codeless MX DUO BLACK keyboard and Optical Mouse
Antec SX1040 File Server Tower case W/400W, 10 BAYS
Volcano-7+: for Intel S370 & AMD S462, w/temp Sensor
Case Fan (8025A): for case, 80x80x25, 2ball
ACT-LABS EagleMAX Joystick
1.44 FD with Black face

I'm oc'ing the cpu atleast and maybe the vid card. Slowly however since this will be my first oc.
I'm still a little undecided on the vid card however. I'm into gaming but would it be worth twice the cash to get a 9800 pro, considering that I'm going with a mid range CPU?
Or the mobo, I'm not set on Asus but I am pretty set on the 6USB's

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by NateKingCole on 07/28/03 02:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

More about : system close buy time

July 21, 2003 8:02:53 PM

Judging by the picture, the Asus A7N8X Deluxe has the holes on the mobo for screwing down a large heatsink straight to the mobo instead of using the dinky socket clips. Not only does this allow you to use a much heavier heat sink, but it also makes sure that the heatsink won't budge no matter how much you shake, rattle, and roll that case. :) 

I'd double-check since I don't feel like researching any more than the picture, but if so then why not get a nice heatsink like a Thermalright SLK-900 and a good 92mm fan? :)  It'd allow you to OC a heck of a lot better than using a Volcano 7+, and with the right fan it could also be quieter.

"<i>Yeah, if you treat them like equals, it'll only encourage them to think they <b>ARE</b> your equals.</i>" - Thief from <A HREF="http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=030603" target="_new">8-Bit Theater</A>
July 21, 2003 8:05:46 PM

Very nice looking system you have their. Vid card 9800 Pro is the top card for ATI. Thats if you have the money to burn!!! 9600 Pro should do well . Now the new Vid cards from Ati and Nvidia are do Oct or whenever I don't have release dates. Also for $100 plus 9700 Pro may work for you.
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July 21, 2003 8:08:02 PM

* For overclocking, I'd choose Abit NF7-S.

* Get two 512MB memory modules instead of 2x256MB+512MB.

<b><font color=blue>Logic over all.</font color=blue></b>
July 21, 2003 8:11:29 PM

Great setup there but may wanna just get a pair of 512mb dual channel ddr from GEIL. For the CPU cooler, get the thermalright slk800u with a descent 80mm fan like the thermaltake smartcase fan. Since you chosen that MB, also get a Baracuda SATA hard drive. The Radeon 9600 pro is a good enough AGP that will process the upcomming dx9 games just fine and plus it can be oced like a mother. Great Mobo choice, just make sure you get rev 2 of that model.
July 21, 2003 8:14:35 PM

Unfortunately the slk900 will not fit on this mobo, the transistors are too close and would require too much bending for they will break off. The slk800u will fit this one however.
July 21, 2003 11:59:12 PM

Cool, thanks for the tips keep them coming.

Like I said, I like the 6 Usb's on the asus, since I use alot of usb devices. I don't believe the NF7-S does. But if you think it would be worth it anyway, please tell me.

As far as the ram goes. I don't think in the next 2 years I'll need anymore than 1GB (in two years I need faster ram anyways) and I read <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam..." target="_new"> here</A> that this would be the best set up for my board.

I'll look into the slk800. However I havn't found a supplier in the area yet.

The 9600p will do me until I think I need more, and then I'll sell it cut my loses and get something better.

Anymore opinions? Does anyone have this monitor, keyboard? Anything will help, even if you just tell me that you've got that joystick and you like it (help me reaffirm my choice).
July 22, 2003 6:44:02 AM

Oh I forgot, does anyone like the lite-on DVD reader over the sony's? I could get a sony for about 2$ more.

And about that slk-800... the only place I can find it is selling it for about twice that of the 7+. Is it worth it? That's just the heat sync. I still need a fan.
July 22, 2003 6:56:48 AM

i have not had good luck with sony drives...plus lite on is a very good brand and contracts drives for major companies such as TDK.

There is no smell better than fried silicon :evil: 
July 22, 2003 10:14:10 AM

I would also say Get 2x512s instead of your setup. you can have faster timings with less sticks - there's no need to fill all three slots.

---
$hit Happens. I just wish it would happen to someone else for a change.
July 22, 2003 5:24:52 PM

Maybe Crashman and/or Svol can answer that question.


<b><font color=red>It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. - Bill Clinton<b><font color=red>
Anonymous
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July 22, 2003 5:46:47 PM

For your HD id suggest the seagate over the WD. Only thing im not sure they do it in ATA100 maybe only SATA
July 22, 2003 5:50:05 PM

Seagate 120G 7200rpm ATA100 8M ST3120024A with HydraulicBaring ?

Or is it worth an extra 15$ to go
Seagate 120G 7200rpm Serial-ATA150 8M ST3120026AS 8.5ms?
July 23, 2003 1:02:51 AM

1 small suggestion. Newegg has Combo CD-RW/DVD drives for about $50-60. The max burn speed on these drives are 48x, but you can play DVD's with them:) 
July 23, 2003 1:07:59 AM

it means it is a very quiet drive...performance will be close to if not better than the sata unit

There is no smell better than fried silicon :evil: 
July 23, 2003 1:32:53 AM

What drive - brand?


<b><font color=red>It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. - Bill Clinton<b><font color=red>
July 23, 2003 5:59:43 AM

Seagate 120G 7200rpm ATA100 8M ST3120024A with HydraulicBaring ?
OR
Seagate 120G 7200rpm Serial-ATA150 8M ST3120026AS 8.5ms?

Which one is better or are normal ATA drives from WD or Maxtor better choices? They're all the same price.

As for the DVD reader, I use it for DVD watching as well as burning regular cd's (cd-to-cd is easier). I do that often enough that it's worth it.

As always, I'm very grateful for the comments, keep them coming please
July 23, 2003 7:08:36 AM

i would go for wd 8mb cache special edition drive (PATA not SATA)...although maxtor has some good offerings too...you just need to see the benchmarks to find out which suits you best

So easy to fry yet tastes so good...
Silicon: The other, other, other white meat :evil: 
July 23, 2003 7:31:40 PM

Alright. Sound isn't an issue. So really shouldn't I just go with the cheapest 120GB 8MB drive?

Edit: Due to the very small preformance boost. Or is it really noticable boost?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by NateKingCole on 07/23/03 03:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 23, 2003 7:51:30 PM

ya...cheepest 120gb 8mb cache 7200rpm drive...made by a good brand

So easy to fry yet tastes so good...
Silicon: The other, other, other white meat :evil: 
July 23, 2003 8:13:02 PM

Cool thanks. So here's the update.
<b>
AMD Barton 2500+ 333FSB
Asus A7N8x-DX nForce2-ST, AGP8x, A133, S-ATA, i1394,Dual-DDR400, Audio,Dual-Lan, 6USB2
Radeon 9500 Pro 128M DDR, VGA, DVI, TV-O, AGP8x
Samsung DDR-PC3200: 400mhz (512MB x2)
Western Digital 120G 8M 7200RPM ATA100 OEM (3 yrs Mfr. warranty)
Viewsonic P95F+ /-B 19" 0.25mm Flat-CRT 2048x1536 / BLACK
Lite-On DVD 16x eide BLACK
Lite-ON 52x32x52x IDE Internal w/ Burn Proof (BLACK)
Creative Inspire 6.1 6600 6 Speakers w/subwoofer
Logitech Codeless MX DUO BLACK keyboard and Optical Mouse
Antec SX1040B File Server Tower case W/400W, 10 BAYS
Volcano-7+: for Intel S370 & AMD S462, w/temp Sensor
Case Fan (8025A): for case, 80x80x25, 2ball
ACT-LABS EagleMAX Joystick
1.44 FD with Black face</b>

I still can't decide to go with 9800pro or not. I'll have to wait until I'm at the store with checkbook in hand. Are there any opinions on this? Will I still be able to play Doom III at high rez with my 2500+??
July 23, 2003 8:19:33 PM

Quote:
i have not had good luck with sony drives

I have a Sony DVD-ROM and it doesnt play some DVDs sometimes; the DVDs which run smooth on DVD players. Its such a pain in the butt. what were ur problems with Sony drives?

<b>Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheMask on 07/24/03 02:22 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 23, 2003 11:58:47 PM

Looks like you have money to burn. Your thinking of buying 9800 PRO. Why not buy faster chip while your at it. XP 3200+ with 9500 PRO.
July 24, 2003 12:11:50 AM

i have a 52 or 54x cd rom drive made by sony (not rw) and it has trouble reading cd-rw or cd-r media...it reads...then you hear a click...click...click...seems as if the laser looses its place when it tries to read that media...i have the latest firmware...it is very annoying...it is so slow that if i play a divx movie from that drive...the movie pauses every 10 seconds...but play a cdrom and it works fine...go figure...

If you are not overclocking you should get the 200mhz fsb 3000+ its only like 33 or 66mhz slower than the 3200+ and is a good deal cheaper...if you have the $$ splurge on a 9800pro...but that 9500pro should be faster than the 9600pro...but there are currently nice deals on 9700np's

So easy to fry yet tastes so good...
Silicon: The other, other, other white meat :evil: 
July 24, 2003 12:39:13 AM

Yeah that might be a consideration, but if I upgrade my CPU, I'm going Intel. AMD mids are just so cheap I can't refuse.

But what do you think? Say I've got an extra 200$ (cdn) to invest, lay it into the cpu or the video card??
July 24, 2003 12:42:35 AM

I do plan on Over Clocking. With only a Volcano 7+ I don't know how far it'll go, but I'm giving it a try.

Quote:
but there are currently nice deals on 9700np's


I hear that all the time, but unfortunatly I can't find one. That 9500pro is about 270$ Cdn but the best 9700np I found was 369$ cdn. And for the extra cash, I'd rather get the 9800pro.

Thanks for the comments, it's helping.
July 24, 2003 12:53:08 AM

you should get that cpu over 2ghz with a volcano...more like 2.1-2.3...if you get lucky you may hit 2.4-2.5....in this case i would stick with the 2500...it will overclock just as well as the 3000 or 3200...the 9800pro is a fine graphics card...stay away from the 256mb version...it offers very little performance gain for the money...

So easy to fry yet tastes so good...
Silicon: The other, other, other white meat :evil: 
July 24, 2003 12:57:25 AM

I have to like that advice.

Maybe I'll throw in another case fan to make that over clocking even better.
July 24, 2003 3:00:28 AM

looks like your ready to buy this new toy of yours?
July 24, 2003 3:58:39 AM

Yeah I think so. I'm building the exact system for a friend, except with less ram, and a downgrade in the video card and speakers. Except he's not overclocking so I might go with a faster non-barton cpu. Should be going down to pick it up early next week.
July 24, 2003 4:01:47 AM

You have the money buy Barton. Unless you want P4 2.4c great CPU for OCing.
July 24, 2003 4:14:30 AM

Okay I am going to go out on a limb here. The ABIT NF7-S has all the same features as the ASUS minus the 2 extra USB ports. If that becomes and issue, USB hubs can be had for very cheap (<10 dollars US for a powered hub). It offers better o/c'ing and has a better layout IMHO. I have the NF7-S and I love it.

Now for the HDD. SATA has 2 advantages in my mind right now. 1 Lower CPU overhead and 2 Smaller cables = more airflow in case. I have my 20GB Maxtor PATA HDD using the SATA convertor (oh yeah you can get the PATA HDD and use the SATA convertor that comes with the ABIT board and try out both ways!) and it is faster on boot than b4 on PATA (this is where I notice the diff anyway).

Just a computer junky
July 24, 2003 4:44:29 AM

Yeah I've looked into that. Now I know the abit's are really good overclockers. But are they really that much better? The only place I can find to carry the NF7-s's are 167$ where the asus boards are 180. So for the extra 13$ I don't have to use a usb spliter. So is the oc'in ability that much better?

And back to the hard drives. Sounds like SATA's a good idea for the few extra bucks. Here's the options:

Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 120G 8M SATA150 OEM <b>179$</b>
Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 120G 8M 7200RPM SATA150 OEM <b>176$</b>
Western Digital 1200JD 120G 8M 7200RPM SATA150 OEM <b>185$</b>

Non-Sata's:

Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 120G 8M 7200RPM ATA133 <b>158$</b>
Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 120G 7200RPM ATA100 8M OEM <b>149$</b>
Western Digital 120G 8M 7200RPM ATA100 OEM <b>153$</b>

What's the best choice here????

Oh yeah and I should also ask, how bad is not going with pc3500 memory going to hinder my oc abilities? For fast memory it's atleast another 120$, money I don't want to spend unless necesairy (keeps me from even fantasizing about a 9800 pro).
July 24, 2003 4:50:35 AM

if you can live with pata's wide cables than sata is no faster...

So easy to fry yet tastes so good...
Silicon: The other, other, other white meat :evil: 
July 24, 2003 4:52:13 AM

Right on. I kinda feel foolish, but what's the diff between ata133 and ata100?
July 24, 2003 5:09:22 AM

133mb/s transfer or 100mb/s transfer

Of course they are all backwards compatable...most drives don't even use the full bandwith of ultara ATA 66...

There is no point getting an amd system with sata...because even if the drives COULD use the bandwith....they are limited to the 133mb/s of the pci bus...so whats the point?

So easy to fry yet tastes so good...
Silicon: The other, other, other white meat :evil: 
July 24, 2003 5:15:03 AM

thanks. I was wondering about that. What about future stuff. Like say when I move to the intels and prescotts later, I'm sure I'll want to keep my hard disk? Sould I bother with the 133 or even the sata150?
July 24, 2003 5:26:18 AM

The point is that SATA has LESS CPU overhead. It uses the CPU 7% of the time whereas the PATA uses it 43% of the time. The abit NF7-S is quite a bit better in o/c'ing than the ASUS. ASUS goes up to 1.85V, the NF7-S goes over 2.0V on CPU core voltage (not that you may need that, but you never know). My Tbred is running 9.5x220 in my NF7-S Right now and it is rock stable. I don't think there are any ASUS A7N8X boards that are running that FSB. Plus they have some memory comaptibility problems even with the V2.0 ASUS boards.

So is SATA "faster" no, not neccessarily, but when you look at cpu utilization it will end up a faster system because the CPU is free to do other things. SATA also has the capability of more speed in the future. Like I said though, if in doubt get a SATA Adaptor(or get the NF7-S that comes with one....your choice) and use the SATA adapter on a PATA drive. Do that for a week then, put it on PATA for a week and see if you notice a diff, if you do then next time you can get a SATA drive.

Just a computer junky<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Maverick494 on 07/24/03 01:29 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 24, 2003 5:34:22 AM

Alright. So SATA sounding good now, for the few extra bucks I have better future capability. So out of those drives listed earlier, which looks best?
July 24, 2003 5:38:19 AM

PATA will stay around for a while cause so far sata does not have atapi (optical drive) suport...i doubt cpu utilisation goes up to 43%...but i will agree that it is less

So easy to fry yet tastes so good...
Silicon: The other, other, other white meat :evil: 
July 24, 2003 6:07:42 AM

Ok, so I went and did a wee bit of homework. And it's looking like a PATA100 is fine for now. I use the SATA adaptor, and worse comes to worse a few years down the road: I buy a second hard drive to run all my aps off of and I use the PATA to store all my vids, mp3 and such. Correct me if I'm wrong.
July 24, 2003 6:16:51 AM

True optical drives currently do not have SATA support, but they don't need 150 MB/S do they? They also will convert to SATA one day when it becomes more of a "Standard." I think that will be about the same time as the shift from the current PCI to PCI Express. PCI express shows some great potential to eliminate the PCI bus bottleneck. Once that is done SATA can fly, the question is whether or not hard drives can keep up with the available bandwidth SATA has the potential to offer. Optical drives need to pick up the pace a bit IMHO, they are lagging behind the speed curve. Everyone seems to be focusing on getting a faster burn speed than in making the drive xfer data faster these days. SATA will come into it's own. right now IMHO it is still a good buy for not a lot more money.

Just a computer junky
July 24, 2003 6:21:21 AM

That sounds like a great idea. That is what I did. I have my Maxtor 20GB PATA 133 MB/S HDD using a SATA adaptor. When I finally get the money for a 200GB SATA drive it will be a slave drive. Then when I get my second SATA it wil be a PATA drive that is a MP3/video drive.

Just a computer junky
July 24, 2003 6:27:00 AM

the reason otical drives cap at around 56x is that at any higher speeds...the cdrom drive spins the cd fast enough to physically destroy many cds...not that the tech cannot handle it...it is the actual cd design at fault...but there is no excuse for dvds...IMO it is the wrong time to buy a dvd-rw drive cause currently they are very slow.

You are right...cdrom drives don't need the bandwith...but nor do hard drives and they switched over...atapi support will come to sata wheather i am ready to leave ide or not...

still...until i see a better slection of sata drives i will still recomend pata to people who can stand the cables...the only sata drive that is worth it is the wd raptor...because it offers a noticable performance increase over standard ide drives (immagine 4 of those in raid 0) but then again they do not offer more than 40gb of storrage...if floppy is still around...then ide should stay for a while...

So easy to fry yet tastes so good...
Silicon: The other, other, other white meat :evil: 
July 24, 2003 6:39:03 AM

Good point PIII. Drooling over those 4 raptors raid 0 for a moment. I remember now that the limitations is due to the CD now. Thanks for reminding me. I agree DVD-r, -rw, /r, /rw or any combo of the afore mentioned is not a good choice. I have yet to see a "industry standard" emerging for them either and they have been around for about 2years now. It didn't take CD-R that long to get a standard. Oh well maybe by the time it is 40 dollars for a DVD-writer there will be a standard and it will be a good one.

As for Hard drives not using the bandwidth, that is true, but it all comes down to capability. ATA 133 was a pipe dream with the current setup of IDE. Hell most hard drives might manage a burst speed of 80 MB/s if that. I just look forward to the possiblity that SATA offers to the Hard drive and eventually Optical drive makers.

Just a computer junky<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Maverick494 on 07/24/03 02:42 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 24, 2003 6:45:07 AM

i am looking forward to the day when we use solid state drives...that would just be amazingly fast...i think that memory cards are the euture...hell they can even get those little things up to 1gb+ (for quite some $$ though)...

I was just wondering...how much utilisation do usb drives require? Why not just skip sata for that...already have a faster theoretical banwith than sata does...

So easy to fry yet tastes so good...
Silicon: The other, other, other white meat :evil: 
July 24, 2003 9:17:12 AM

I have had that problem too. I have a CD-RW media that i have Multi-sessioned three or four times. I put it in my friend's Sony CD-Rom drive and it cud not read it at all. A couple of my other friends have LG CD-ROM and the multi-sessioned CD reads with no problems at all.

<b>I hate scottchen. :wink:
Scottchen's</b> sig: I could only overclock my Barton 2500+ to 2645mhz. My Radeon 9700pro core/mem speed won't go above 410/720.
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