Do I need thermal paste/grease?

thanniel · Aug 6, 2003

I'm first time builder and thinking of getting P4 2.8c or 2.6c with Abit IS 7. Since I will be using heat sink that comes with the processor and do not plan to overclock, my question is do I need to apply thermal paste/grease as well when installing the processor? Has the heat sink been pre-applied with these thermal stuff already?

Thanx.

slvr_phoenix · Aug 6, 2003

The Intel retail heat sink comes with a pre-attached thermal pad. It's not nearly as effecient for transfering heat as paste/grease, but it does work. So you shouldn't need any paste or grease. Just use the black pad crap that comes on the heatsink and it'll do you fine. Right now that's what I'm running my P4 2.6C on. (Until I upgrade to a much more silent CPU heatsink/fan, at which time I'll switch to Arctic Silver Ceramique.)

<pre><A HREF="http://www.winamp.com" target="_new">Winamp3</A> and freeform skins, the best thing since sliced llama loaf. (Now with more beef.)</pre>

Flinx · Aug 6, 2003

I'm pretty sure the stock heatsink comes with pre-applied paste/grease. Normal retail box for the processor right?

There is usually a little paper cover over the paste, on the bottom of the heat sink, that has to be removed before mounting.

If it does not have this preapplied paste/grease I really do suggest that you get some paste

The loving are the daring!

JP5 · Aug 6, 2003

I have tried a P4 2.4C on an IS7 with both the stock thermal pad and Artic Silver 3. There was only a 1 degree difference, so if I were you I would just pop that processor in with the stock heatsink.

ChipDeath · Aug 6, 2003

Does not using the thermal pad invalidate the warranty? I believe it does for AMD retail chips, but I'm not sure about Intel's stance on this.

---
$hit Happens. I just wish it would happen to someone else for a change.

slvr_phoenix · Aug 6, 2003

Does not using the thermal pad invalidate the warranty? I believe it does for AMD retail chips, but I'm not sure about Intel's stance on this.

That's actually a very strong point for Intel. Their "Limited Three Year Warranty" is very short, simple, and to the point. It is also very open. Basically so long as you don't abuse the processor (either physically or by using it contrary to it's intended purpose ... IE overclock) you can do whatever you want to it and it'll be covered under warranty. So use whatever heatsink and TIM you want. You don't have to stick to Intel Retail to keep a valid warranty. Throw that Thermalright SLK-900 with a 92mm fan and Arctic Silver Ceramique on it. Use water cooling. Intel respects your right to cool your processor with better tools than the retail heatsink.

AMD's Three (3) Year Processor In A Box Limited Warranty however is another matter. It states specifically in big bold letters "This Limited Warranty shall be null and void if the AMD microprocessor which is the subject of this Limited Warranty is used with any heatsink/fan other than the one provided herewith." So not only can you not use a different heatsink, but even putting a better fan on the retail heatsink is a no-no. (Though modding the voltage of that fan doens't seem to be a concern.)

As far as TIM goes however, I can't find any information from AMD that specifically says "If you don't use this TIM, your warranty is invalid." Based on what little I have found I'd have to assume that while AMD is very strict with their heatsink usage under the warranty, whatever TIM you use won't invalidate your warranty.

Now before you get impressed with AMD's open-mindedness towards the use of more advanced TIMs, read this quote taken from their tech docs: "Phase Change Material (PCM) is the recommended interface material for Socket A AMD Athlon and AMD Duron processors. Many heatsinks are sold with a pre-applied phase change material interface. Phase change material is different from Thermal Tape or Thermal Grease, neither of which is recommended by AMD for use with AMD Athlon or AMD Duron processors."

So while AMD won't consider your warranty void for having used Arctic Silver 3, AMD does specifically recommend against using it. :\

<pre><A HREF="http://www.winamp.com" target="_new">Winamp3</A> and freeform skins, the best thing since sliced llama loaf. (Now with more beef.)</pre>

pIII_Man · Aug 6, 2003

jeez how would they know you changed heatsink though?

I mean if my cpu fried...i would just send it back in the retail box with amd's heatsink....don't matter if i am using an sk-7 or a slk-900...they won't know.

The hard thing is to try to change the heatsink on a slot 1 cpu...it is very hard to take it out of the casing without scratching that soft plastic...i know i couldn't...i just gave up and took out the sheet metal scissors :evil:

If i put my k6 in a Ferrari it would be faster than your your pentium 4 or Athlon XP :tongue:

slvr_phoenix · Aug 6, 2003

How would they know that it's dead from OCing either? (At least assuming that you OCed without making obvious changes to the bridges.) Just because the warranty says something doens't mean that they have any way of knowing if you are lying about what happened or not. I think it's mostly just there to protect them from people trying to get their OEM Athlon covered under the retail warranty, but it sure is a bad way to do it if that's the reason.

<pre><A HREF="http://www.winamp.com" target="_new">Winamp3</A> and freeform skins, the best thing since sliced llama loaf. (Now with more beef.)</pre>

pIII_Man · Aug 6, 2003

they don't...but i would not return a chip that i overclocked and broke...that is just wrong IMO...but i don't think that it is wrong to install diffrent cooling options onto the cpu and returning it under warantee if something goes wrong...

I think that probably intel is soo lineient because their underclocking method should save the cpu from even the user not installing any heatsink at all!

If i put my k6 in a Ferrari it would be faster than your your pentium 4 or Athlon XP :tongue:

slvr_phoenix · Aug 6, 2003

I think that probably intel is soo lineient because their underclocking method should save the cpu from even the user not installing any heatsink at all!

I think it is a combination of that and that Intel actually makes enough money that returned CPUs, even at the fault of a user, won't eat a significant hole into their profits.

AMD on the other hand, having both difficulty making profits and having CPUs which don't independantly handle their own thermal protection, is probably happy to put anything into their warranty that will keep the number of covered returns down.

<pre><A HREF="http://www.winamp.com" target="_new">Winamp3</A> and freeform skins, the best thing since sliced llama loaf. (Now with more beef.)</pre>

HardWareBoss · Aug 7, 2003

Thats what I'm using with my 2.4C The stock black stuff for now. Then I'll buy new Hsf with Ceramique.

HardWareBoss · Aug 7, 2003

Wow thats all 1 degree!!! Have you OC yet?

slvr_phoenix · Aug 7, 2003

I'm actually glad that I looked this stuffus up because until then I had been under the impression that Intel had the same warranty as AMD, so I'd void my warranty when I finally stick a better heatsink on.

Turns out that I can put a good heatsink onto my P4 and not void my 3 year warranty after all. Bonus!

The Intel retail HSF isn't bad (it seems to be cooling my 2.6C quite well actually), but pin-drop silence is not its middle name.

<pre><A HREF="http://www.winamp.com" target="_new">Winamp3</A> and freeform skins, the best thing since sliced llama loaf. (Now with more beef.)</pre>

slvr_phoenix · Aug 7, 2003

I have tried a P4 2.4C on an IS7 with both the stock thermal pad and Artic Silver 3. There was only a 1 degree difference

Just out of curiosity, how much time passed between when you applied the AS3 and when you checked the temps?

<pre><A HREF="http://www.winamp.com" target="_new">Winamp3</A> and freeform skins, the best thing since sliced llama loaf. (Now with more beef.)</pre>

pIII_Man · Aug 7, 2003

i must say that i think it is BS that artic silver gets better over time...i have installed it on 2 computers and the temps i got during the first 20 min of use were the temps i had forever...

If i put my k6 in a Ferrari it would be faster than your your pentium 4 or Athlon XP :tongue:

slvr_phoenix · Aug 7, 2003

**shrug** It's according to AS's own website. AS3 takes a hell of a lot longer to burn in than AS Ceramique.

<A HREF="http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm" target="_new">AS3</A>

Important Reminder:

Due to the unique shape and sizes of the silver particles in Arctic Silver 3, it will take a up to 200 hours to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink or with a low speed fan on the heatsink.) The CPU's temperature will drop as much as 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period.
This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer.

<A HREF="http://www.arcticsilver.com/ceramique_instructions.htm" target="_new">AS Ceramique</A>

Important Reminder:

Due to the unique shapes and sizes of the particles in Ceramique, it will take a minimum of 12 hours to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink.) On systems measuring actual internal core temperatures via the CPU's internal diode, the measured temperature will often drop slightly over this "break-in" period.

<pre><A HREF="http://www.winamp.com" target="_new">Winamp3</A> and freeform skins, the best thing since sliced llama loaf. (Now with more beef.)</pre>

pIII_Man · Aug 7, 2003

stop shrugging man...Show off those broad sexy sholders of yours...

Well possibly it was cause i was using it on pIII and pII systems with a lot less thermal output...also if you apply it nice and thin then it really should not take so long...

Although in the AS3 directions they tell you to apply it to the heatsink and the core...i find it easier to just put it on the core...works well for me...and i save my greese...

If i put my k6 in a Ferrari it would be faster than your your pentium 4 or Athlon XP :tongue:

slvr_phoenix · Aug 7, 2003

**ROFL** Yeah well...

But it makes sense if you're sticking to relatively low-heat applications that it won't do much. I mean it only improves the transfer of heat to the heatsink. I'd imagine that it does a lot for people who have the tiny little Athlon cores that run so hot. Heh heh. That and those hellfire-hot high-end P4s. Those who have cores at more 'normal' temperatures though (and of those especially the people who have big cores) probably won't see much of an improvement. And especially if the heatsink base itself is aluminum instead of copper.

You just can't squeeze blood out of a rock. (Or in this case a hunk of silicon and metal.)

<pre><A HREF="http://www.winamp.com" target="_new">Winamp3</A> and freeform skins, the best thing since sliced llama loaf. (Now with more beef.)</pre>

pIII_Man · Aug 8, 2003

true...with p4's you are limited by the quality of greese under the IHS (same with tualatin pIII and celeries...and possibly some pII's?)...

But for the atholons...especialy the palaminos...any help is welcomed...

If i put my k6 in a Ferrari it would be faster than your your pentium 4 or Athlon XP :tongue:

HardWareBoss · Aug 8, 2003

My P4 2.4C with stock Hsf not that load.

HardWareBoss · Aug 8, 2003

The heck with AS3. Who wants to wait 200 hours. When Ceramique gets it done in 12.

HardWareBoss · Aug 8, 2003

Palaminos are those the ones you fry eggs on?

pIII_Man · Aug 8, 2003

you can fry eggs on any athlon or p4...it can get a bit messy...i wunder if fat conducts electricity? Hmmm

If i put my k6 in a Ferrari it would be faster than your your pentium 4 or Athlon XP :tongue:

Do I need thermal paste/grease?

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