Has the 64-bit Age Begun?

[jmecor]

Apple made the first move with the G5 but I think that like all Apple machines, it will appeal to a very odd demographic. I myself am hoping that Athlon 64s are builder friendly and run cool. I also hope that they run 32 bit apps smoother than any P4 or Athlon XP could ever dream of. Not only this, but I hope that with the 64 bit age, we will see such big performance gains that one won't be forced to upgrade any time soon.

I was thinking of when I wanted to upgrade next and realized that all of this 3.0 ghz and OCing and stuff is all good and everything but when the 64 bit days start to roll in like hell on wheels will it even matter any more to me? The answer is no. Probably not, because the 64 bit processors are hopefully going to rock more than grandma's cookin'!

That day can't get here soon enough! Well, maybe this can be called the first official 64 bit thread because I am not only talking about the Athlon 64, but the whole 64 bit age as well.


<i>
"I'll Take A Quiet Life
-Handshake to Carbon Monoxide- Th.Yo."
</i>

 

[slvr_phoenix]

No offense, but you clearly have no clue. The '64-bit age' isn't going to increase performance dramatically. (If at all.) Even if every CPU turned pure 64-bit today as did all of the software, the whole cycle of PC life would still stay exactly the same.

<font color=purple><pre><A HREF="http://www.winamp.com" target="_new">Winamp<b><font color=blue>3</font color=blue></b></A> and freeform skins, the best thing since sliced llama loaf. (Now with more beef.)</pre><p></font color=purple>

 

[RRAMJET]

i've got a feeling that some time next year it will be time to stop upgrading and settle back on the system you are happy with for a good 12 months. Like the days of dx 33 to the pentium 90. Then go out and buy a 10ghz system with a 1.6ghz fsp maybe more. Can only guess where vid cards will be, wasn't ATI some disease that spread around in china, enough of that la la land. No seriously AMD are in early because they like to please the top end of town, thats us gamers, and they realise what impact 64 bit will have on graphics, games are gunna pump serious like. Damn where's my prozacs. Anyhow it seems there is going to be an overlap between intel and AMDs introduction of the platform, this may cause comple idiots like microsoft to hold out a little to make for cash. Do you know if microsad have any plans or linux for that matter.

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!

 

[starbucksaddict]

Forgive me...

[rant]
1991 MIPS R4000 64 bit
1992 DEC Alpha 64 bit
1995 Fujitsu/HAL Sparc64 64 bit
1995 Sun UltraSparc 64 bit
1996 HP PA-Risc 64 bit
2000 IBM Power3 64 bit
2001 Intel Itanium 64 bit
2002 AMD Opteron 64 bit
2003 Apple/IBM G5 64 bit

<b>THE 64 BIT AGE BEGAN 12 YEARS AGO!!!!!</b>

[/rant]


The Pen is mightier than the Sword, but the Sword is better if you need back up.

 

[wolverinero79]

Can i ask a dumb, but simple question? How is 64-bit going to help on a performance basis for a desktop chip?

Let me simplify this process, just for my own understanding. A chip is sending data around. It stores values in it's cache for quick access and sends the data through internal "pipes". Most chips have but one type of memory size (cheap and fast to make all the registers the same size, right?). This means that no matter what's being stored, it takes up a minimum data value.

In the Itanium field, everything takes up 64 bits (or 8 bytes). This means that if you are not sending 64 bit values, you are wasting space (and time in transmitting the entire 64 bit value).

In the 32/64 combined field (the upcoming A64), there are 2 different types of registers and pipes (32-bit and 64). The very smart instruction set understands which to use when and coordinates where everything is.

So here's the questions to think about. If you are constantly moving large amounts of data (64 bit in this case), then obviously the larger the better data values (to a point i suppose...assuming error correction is done), because you're basically just sending a continuous data stream. But if you aren't sending large data and going through multiple tasks at once, wouldn't it be faster in fact to have multiple small data values going through in parallel?

So it seems that from a hardware standpoint, 64 bit is going to be faster when your computer is doing a single task that is CPU heavy (and let's face it, that sounds like most benchmarks). But when doing multiple tasks, or having times of short CPU bursts...quiet...etc., might 32 bit be faster.

And i realize that the A64 will have both 32 and 64, but there's overhead involved in figuring out which datatype to use (plus, let's assume an even split, the 32 bit operations can only use half of the cache).

So it looks like if software is not completely optimized (at machine code level...so the compilers mainly) to use 64-bit, then the A64 could come up slower than it's only 32 bit counter parts.

Oh, and i realize that the Itanium is posting great 64 bit results, but
a.) server benchmarks go for the look at full load with large datatypes
b.) you have to wonder what a 32 bit chip would do if it had 6 megs of cache

Anyway, if i'm just being stupid because it's really early, please forgive me. But it makes sense to me, so don't just say i'm dumb or AMD rocks, but give me a reason why my logical reasoning is flawed.

Thanks

I'm just your average habitual smiler =D

 

[RRAMJET]

I'd say AMD are trying to push the likes of microsoft and intel to move to a 64bit operating system sooner than later, simply because CPUs have come to a point where increaseing clock speeds are becoming harder to acheive. I'd say the next few years will be spent optimizing hardware and software as to create maximum efficiency within a 64bit environment. The way i see it if you want to move more data at higher speeds you must allow for more volume to reduce heating and the likes. Anyway from what i've read the only real advantage in the forseable future will be for graphics applications and servers. Was windows 95 the first desktop 32 bit operating system?

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!

 

[pIII_Man]

windows 95 is not full 32 bit...it runs heavly off of 16 bit dos...and uses some 16 bit drivers...

If i put my k6 in a Ferrari it would be faster than your your pentium 4 or Athlon XP :tongue:

 

[wolverinero79]

Well see that's my point, the 64 bit chips help with graphics and servers (because both areas actually require larger than 32 bit numbers). But with GPUs advancing quickly and hopefully taking over all graphics functions, what are the benefits of 64 bit desktop CPUs?

I'm just your average habitual smiler =D

 

[MaximumGoat]

"windows 95 is not full 32 bit...it runs heavly off of 16 bit dos...and uses some 16 bit drivers..."

was 98 truly 32bit then? will A64 support 16 bit? is that a stupid question? does anyone use 16bit (or even 8bit?) anymore? have i asked to many questions? shall i stop now?

 

[AMD_Man]

Err, in some cases, the 32-bit age sucks for a programmer. I mean, in assembly why can we access only the low word (last 16-bits) of a 32-bit register like EAX or EBX or ECX. What happened to the highword? I have to use shr to get the value of the other 16-bits. That's a little quirk that I hate about IA32 processors. Perhaps in the 64-bit world, we'll have access to highwords of 32-bit registers. For example, AX is the lowword of EAX, but there's no highword we can access!!! IMHO, extra bits = extra registers, and you can't complain about extra registers.

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.

 

[pIII_Man]

well i would not call 98 or even ME 32 bit operating systems...they all ran on dos...so....the nt based os's were the first TRUE 32 bit os's...

If you look back....during the PII and early pIII days...first reviewers would show windows 98 benchies...then they would show NT 3.5 or NT 4 benchies...

If i put my k6 in a Ferrari it would be faster than your your pentium 4 or Athlon XP :tongue:

 

[AMD_Man]

was 98 truly 32bit then?

Well, truly is such an awkward term to use in this case. Windows 95 could most certainly execute 32-bit code. It could also execute 16-bit code and some of the "apps" integrated to it were also 16-bit. A portion of the underlying kernel that controlled basic system operations like managing interrupts was 16-bit. In WinNT, Win2000 and WinXP, the kernel is completely 32-bit. However, that does not mean that they don't ship with any 16-bit apps or that they can't run 16-bit code.

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.

 

[MaximumGoat]

so will (guessing obviously) Windows XP64 bit be fully 64bit with 32 and or not 16bit, or will it be like how 95 pretended to be 32bit but was partially 16bit, if you see what i mean?

 

[HardWareBoss]

Don't tell me your running Windows 95?

 

[pIII_Man]

No i am not...windows 2k3 :tongue:

If i put my k6 in a Ferrari it would be faster than your your pentium 4 or Athlon XP :tongue:

 

[juin]

Go why a editor-compiler that allow use to use EAX ECX and others yes with the debugg is not possible to use the CPU in 386 mode only 286

I dont like french test

 

[juin]

dec alpha in 92 was still in 32 that in 94 it when to 64 unless i made a mistake that old info

I dont like french test

 

[starbucksaddict]

<A HREF="http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/jbayko/cpu5.html#Sec5Part5" target="_new">Alpha is a 64 bit architecture (32 bit instructions).....Alpha 32-bit operations differ from 64 bit only in overflow detection.</A>


The Pen is mightier than the Sword, but the Sword is better if you need back up.

 

[HardWareBoss]

You have 2k3? Me like 2kPro.

 

[pIII_Man]

me like 2kpro too!

2k3 is better...but it does not support many programs....it has some direct X issues...i think i will wait for a service pack before i reinstall...i am gonna go back to 2k...

XP sux IMO though...

If i put my k6 in a Ferrari it would be faster than your your pentium 4 or Athlon XP :tongue:

 

[HardWareBoss]

Isn't 2k3 for servers?

 

[pIII_Man]

yup...with some tweaking it runs just fine on an overclocked pII 400...

It runs much faster than xp...

I hope microshaft will make more home/office OS's like 2k3...

How many bits are in a nibble?

 

[jmecor]

It's mainly for servers, but i have one installed on my pc.
Almost like xp with more networking features.

<font color=blue>
My computer is <b>sooo fast</b>,
It finished <b>SETI</b> in <b>10 seconds.</b>
<font color=blue>

 

[juin]

It for server and the like but it performe very well with SMT as the code was made with XEON/Itanium in Mind.
Numa support was greatly improve leaving many behind by now also a lot of security improvement and the new ISS 6

I dont like french test

 

[juin]

On Nt many probleme was cuz of a 16 prog or driver somewhere

I dont like french test