Hey guys... My friend is sooo set on getting a amd 3000+... when a intel 2.8 HT out performs it !! I want him to make the intel switch.. if someone could write a long paragraph stating the benifits over AMD... this guy needs to be converted !!! LOL plus he says opteron is better... PLEASE HELP !! LOL.. he wont listen to my advice..
Intel VS Amd
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recruit370
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intel is clearly better but amd is cost efficient, i spent next to nothing on my nforce 2 and barton 2500+ and with some overclocking to 2.475ghz it easily outperforms the p4 3.2, amd will never reach intel's bandwith but if your budget concious you can get 100 times more for your money with amd. and i mean period
ALWAYS AIM LOW SO YOU CAN'T BE DISSAPOINTED
ALWAYS AIM LOW SO YOU CAN'T BE DISSAPOINTED
I think your friend is probably on the right track. Sure if u have heaps of cash and want the best of the best for the next three weeks go hard on intel. But Amd have become what they are today buy targeting the ever growing market of well informed buyers out their. Its simple, intel are on the way out, the same as 3dfx. Mainly because they dont know how to go to 64 bit systems, and their chips are overheating. Intel will not exists in the coming years, the same goes for Ati, they are both over investing in petfood companies. I see a punk walking down the street with a intel shirt on and i beat him down, aint nuttin like an injured intel lover.
If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
<b>RRAMJET:</b>
dood, high end AMD chips are a complete waste of money. AMD is only good value for low to mid-low end now (Intel is even good for mid-end these days). You're sounding like a troll. Intel has HUGE market share, and that's just consumer desktops. even if they had 10% of this market, their domination elsewhere would be more than enough to keep them afloat, so they are NOT going down.
<b>sin:</b>
If he really desperately wants AMD, convince him to get a Barton 2500+ and Overclock it into something WAY better than a 3000+. at the 3000+ price point he really would be better going intel.
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The end is nigh.. (For this post at least)
dood, high end AMD chips are a complete waste of money. AMD is only good value for low to mid-low end now (Intel is even good for mid-end these days). You're sounding like a troll. Intel has HUGE market share, and that's just consumer desktops. even if they had 10% of this market, their domination elsewhere would be more than enough to keep them afloat, so they are NOT going down.
<b>sin:</b>
If he really desperately wants AMD, convince him to get a Barton 2500+ and Overclock it into something WAY better than a 3000+. at the 3000+ price point he really would be better going intel.
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The end is nigh.. (For this post at least)
CHIPDEATH
In my opinion these chips below are the top of the range CPUs, any faster is to new and not a viable option, wait a couple of months for these (do i need to explain why?) Anyone who buys the newer ones is either overly rich, stupid or not paying for them with their own hard work. If you disagree to agree you obviuosly work in an IT or similar idustry that is very dependent on using cutting edge technology and i apologise. My point being for your home desktop or the average buisness machine is the extra FSB worth all that cash, and do intels quad fsb infrastructure really represent the numbers on the box. The answer is no as can be seen in benchmarks that we are so fond of. My point being that an informed person will see where their money is most wisley spent and where marketing technique are coming into play. Now as for mid range check out the price of intels 1.7 p4 and the performance of their crap celerons. All this quite rightly proves that Intel are crap. Lol i was only joking about intel going under, i meant microsoft.
Intel Pentium 4 2.40G-C (800Mhz FSB) $309.00
Intel Pentium 4 2.67G (533Mhz FSB) $335.00
AMD AMD Athlon XP 2400+ (266Mhz FSB) $162.00
AMD AMD Athlon XP 2600+ (400Mhz FSB) $201.00
If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
In my opinion these chips below are the top of the range CPUs, any faster is to new and not a viable option, wait a couple of months for these (do i need to explain why?) Anyone who buys the newer ones is either overly rich, stupid or not paying for them with their own hard work. If you disagree to agree you obviuosly work in an IT or similar idustry that is very dependent on using cutting edge technology and i apologise. My point being for your home desktop or the average buisness machine is the extra FSB worth all that cash, and do intels quad fsb infrastructure really represent the numbers on the box. The answer is no as can be seen in benchmarks that we are so fond of. My point being that an informed person will see where their money is most wisley spent and where marketing technique are coming into play. Now as for mid range check out the price of intels 1.7 p4 and the performance of their crap celerons. All this quite rightly proves that Intel are crap. Lol i was only joking about intel going under, i meant microsoft.
Intel Pentium 4 2.40G-C (800Mhz FSB) $309.00
Intel Pentium 4 2.67G (533Mhz FSB) $335.00
AMD AMD Athlon XP 2400+ (266Mhz FSB) $162.00
AMD AMD Athlon XP 2600+ (400Mhz FSB) $201.00
If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
where'd you get those prices?
Newegg.com:
P4 2.4C(800FSB) $170.00
Although the Xp2400+ is only $86 or so...
Plus of course the P4 2.4C chip actually compares more with an XP2800+ or so, performance-wise (and I'm being generous there), so a comparison between an XP2400 and a P4C 2.4C is not comparing like with like.
N.B. I'm not saying AMD is always a bad deal... a 2500+ Barton is an excellent deal ATM. I'm just saying that only a complete idiot, or a 'blinded by fanaticism' fanboy would buy an XP3000+ over a similarly priced Intel proc.
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The end is nigh.. (For this post at least) <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ChipDeath on 08/08/03 11:44 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Newegg.com:
P4 2.4C(800FSB) $170.00
Although the Xp2400+ is only $86 or so...
Plus of course the P4 2.4C chip actually compares more with an XP2800+ or so, performance-wise (and I'm being generous there), so a comparison between an XP2400 and a P4C 2.4C is not comparing like with like.
N.B. I'm not saying AMD is always a bad deal... a 2500+ Barton is an excellent deal ATM. I'm just saying that only a complete idiot, or a 'blinded by fanaticism' fanboy would buy an XP3000+ over a similarly priced Intel proc.
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The end is nigh.. (For this post at least)
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ChipDeath on 08/08/03 11:44 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Going with a P4 2.6c and a 865 PAT enabled chipset will provide you with a powerfull system that will be up to date for a full year and that could last you for 2-3 years. Im not like ramjet saying bs that AMD sux and Intel rox. I just feel like chipdeath. You dont want to buy high-end amd like XP3000+. If you want to go high end you way better with a 2.6c. Even ramjet cannot argue that HT is a good feature that future proof your system. Maybe you dont need all the pwoer Of the P4c right now but the huge bandwith of the P4c with Dual DDR will certainly be usefull in the future...
As for the price(CAD) P4P800: 195$ P4 2.6c 300$ its really not that expensive for such performance. Especially when you see a 3000+ going for 380$.
In my opinion if you want to go high-end you have to go Intel at this moment.
And Ramjet you sound like another fanboy to me
As for the price(CAD) P4P800: 195$ P4 2.6c 300$ its really not that expensive for such performance. Especially when you see a 3000+ going for 380$.
In my opinion if you want to go high-end you have to go Intel at this moment.
And Ramjet you sound like another fanboy to me
Hey im not no fanboy, i agree with you on all your point except one, and that is spending 300 AUD, let alone 300 US which is twice our currency on a damn CPU that is gunna devaluate like nothin else on this earth. Ok ill agree if you go to 2.8 ghz then Intel may be a better option but below that i just cannot see the justification. I'm just the sort of person that refuses to spend more than about 100 US dollars on a chip, max 150, for the simple fact that i see how rapidly those new chips drop in price and come into their own value through market powers. Lets be realistic between AMD and INTEL there's about half a dozen chips over 2.6 ghz. All im saying is give them a bit of time to settle into the market unless ya wanna get ripped off.
If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
slvr_phoenix
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Umm ... short of buying expensive art and jewelry <i>everything</i> devaluates. (Well, I suppose depending on a lot of factors real estate can go either up or down so it kind of counts as a not automatically devaluating purchase too.)
Cars, computers, electronics, appliances, it <i>all</i> drops in price rather quickly. This is why you buy what you can afford and enjoy, not something that is out of your price range. If someone has the money and will find enjoyment out of a high-end PC, that's completely their choice to purchase one.
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Cars, computers, electronics, appliances, it <i>all</i> drops in price rather quickly. This is why you buy what you can afford and enjoy, not something that is out of your price range. If someone has the money and will find enjoyment out of a high-end PC, that's completely their choice to purchase one.
<font color=purple><pre><A HREF="http://www.winamp.com" target="_new">Winamp<b><font color=blue>3</font color=blue></b></A> and freeform skins, the best thing since sliced llama loaf. (Now with more beef.)</pre><p></font color=purple>
This is the way the PC market always has been. The eternal unanswered question: Do I buy top stuff now, or wait for it to drop in price... but then there's new, better stuff on top... it's a vicious circle... People simply have to say "I have $XXX to spend <i>now</i>, what's the best system I can buy?" and then bite the bullet and buy the damn thing. Even cheap stuff will be worth next to nothing in a few years - you're always going to lose money if you buy a computer.
I remember paying £300 ($450 - $500) for my Geforce 2 Ultra Card, and now that PC Doesn't run all these modern games well any more :frown: .. Although I'm going to take it to bits and shove a DDR board in there this weekend. .. So It'll probably not run <i>anything</i> again, as it'll probably blow up when I'm done.. :lol:
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The end is nigh.. (For this post at least)
I remember paying £300 ($450 - $500) for my Geforce 2 Ultra Card, and now that PC Doesn't run all these modern games well any more :frown: .. Although I'm going to take it to bits and shove a DDR board in there this weekend.
.. So It'll probably not run <i>anything</i> again, as it'll probably blow up when I'm done.. :lol: ---
The end is nigh.. (For this post at least)
Mephistopheles
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quote]Lol i was only joking about intel going under, i meant microsoft.[/quote]That's good, because for a moment there, I felt like I was on another planet than you are.
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
Intel processors are not crap. They have their strong points and are currently the best performing CPUs around. They are more expensive, however, and for the low-end systems, AMD is still the better choice. None of this makes Intel CPUs crap. Celerons are crap, but Pentium 4s are not. Their increased memory bandwidth does give them a performance delta when compared to AMD - not that big, but it's still there. Then there's HT, too... So thinks are not as black and white as "Intel is crap" or "AMD is crap".
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
Agreed. The questions.
Do i need to buy top stuff now
How can i minimise loss
Where is the sweet spot in the market
Has the market priced the item, items
That last question is the one i think is most important. We all know that a new pc only lasts a couple of years so i think it is important to let the market put a price on a piece of hardware whatever it is. The latest cpu costing four or five hundred American dollars has not been influenced by market pressures and is therefore not a viable purchase. Now everyone has different needs and wants so the time to make that decision will vary. Ok im not saying that if i could have ten farrari's in my garage i wouldn't, all im saying is there's a point in the capitilist market when a decision has to be made when an item or property is a viable purchase. Now i believe anything over $200 US on a CPU is a completly useless purchase, unless its used to perform heart operations obviously. For me it's less than that, almost half, because my comp. is used for games and doing this, lol. This market i believe is best catered for by AMD, for no other reason than price and the realization that people get to easily caught up in how big computer companies market numbers. Hey ive seen it all before , 166 or 166mmx, that'll be a hundred bucks thanx.
If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
Do i need to buy top stuff now
How can i minimise loss
Where is the sweet spot in the market
Has the market priced the item, items
That last question is the one i think is most important. We all know that a new pc only lasts a couple of years so i think it is important to let the market put a price on a piece of hardware whatever it is. The latest cpu costing four or five hundred American dollars has not been influenced by market pressures and is therefore not a viable purchase. Now everyone has different needs and wants so the time to make that decision will vary. Ok im not saying that if i could have ten farrari's in my garage i wouldn't, all im saying is there's a point in the capitilist market when a decision has to be made when an item or property is a viable purchase. Now i believe anything over $200 US on a CPU is a completly useless purchase, unless its used to perform heart operations obviously. For me it's less than that, almost half, because my comp. is used for games and doing this, lol. This market i believe is best catered for by AMD, for no other reason than price and the realization that people get to easily caught up in how big computer companies market numbers. Hey ive seen it all before , 166 or 166mmx, that'll be a hundred bucks thanx.
If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
IMO most people do not watch how the PC parts market moves or when new products are supposed to be introduced. I don't feel it's bad advice to say, wait till the October price drop...if you can. Not everyone is part of the <b>"Now" instant gratification required!</b> generation.
However, I can understand what ur saying. People have got it into their minds that they want the product "NOW!" because they need the gratification or that the decision will be just as frustrating in two weeks.
Still, I would think that half the people would appreciate the advice to wait a few weeks. Your right when you say that the as soon as the price drops we can expect a new cycle of top end products to push our desired products one step lower on the rung of performance. For my money I would rather have the new lower rung; i.e. the one I couldn't budget last month because it was the upper rung today.
Anyway there are all kinds of people. The purchase decision as varied as they are. All very confusing and emotional. Peoples ego's, self-image and the image they want to project are all wrapped up in the decisions. I can wait. Others can't.
My most recent purchase of a processor cost me $100. This processor cost once cost close to $1000. I finally got around to throwing out a system with a 486 that once cost someone $4000.
They gave it to me just to get rid of it because it was taking up room. It was pretty useless to them.
It pays not to let your emotions rule your desires.
---------------------------------------------------------
Social Commentary LOL
-----------------------------
Used to be that all decent movies eventually got onto TV for free. Then some people decided they had to see them "Now". Now we have video rental stores and we have pay TV and there is crap on TV. In my opinion, this is sad state of affairs we can expect if people don't learn to control themselves.
The loving are the daring!
However, I can understand what ur saying. People have got it into their minds that they want the product "NOW!" because they need the gratification or that the decision will be just as frustrating in two weeks.
Still, I would think that half the people would appreciate the advice to wait a few weeks. Your right when you say that the as soon as the price drops we can expect a new cycle of top end products to push our desired products one step lower on the rung of performance. For my money I would rather have the new lower rung; i.e. the one I couldn't budget last month because it was the upper rung today.
Anyway there are all kinds of people. The purchase decision as varied as they are. All very confusing and emotional. Peoples ego's, self-image and the image they want to project are all wrapped up in the decisions. I can wait. Others can't.
My most recent purchase of a processor cost me $100. This processor cost once cost close to $1000. I finally got around to throwing out a system with a 486 that once cost someone $4000.
They gave it to me just to get rid of it because it was taking up room. It was pretty useless to them.
It pays not to let your emotions rule your desires.
---------------------------------------------------------
Social Commentary
LOL -----------------------------
Used to be that all decent movies eventually got onto TV for free. Then some people decided they had to see them "Now". Now we have video rental stores and we have pay TV and there is crap on TV. In my opinion, this is sad state of affairs we can expect if people don't learn to control themselves.
The loving are the daring!
Mephistopheles
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I understand your point, maybe i was a bit quick to call you a fanboy hehe =)
The thing we have to keep in my no matter what your opinion is, is that eh want a XP3000+ thats a 380CAN processor. Im pretty sure most of the people in this forum wouldnt recommand AXP for higher end system. I love intel platform better but axp got there strong point better performance/price ratio...
The thing we have to keep in my no matter what your opinion is, is that eh want a XP3000+ thats a 380CAN processor. Im pretty sure most of the people in this forum wouldnt recommand AXP for higher end system. I love intel platform better but axp got there strong point better performance/price ratio...
Yea my best mate he loves intel but he's prepared to spend cash on his system every six months, and true his fsb is doubl mine, but hey i paid 50 US dollars for my duron 900 and 75 US for my 2.4 ghz, but thats me. Mind you he uses his system for music apps and all the new gadgets, i just play games and stuff. But what i think he doesn't realise is that is attitude toward his comp. is a bit overkill. But i take pride in running a high performance system at a sensible price and researching what is needed and what is not, for my needs that is. But what i really want to know is y AMD didnt use the 800fsb system and stayed with the dual 200, are they saving for the end of the year or is the performance benifit not worth it.
If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!
THe thing is AXP doesnt need a lot of bandwith. It would be useless to have such high FSb with big banwith. On the other hand the P4 is really bandwith ungry...
Mephistopheles
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Hehehe... vanity is my favorite sin... 
You guessed my name alright...
Apparently, very few people know that "Mephistopheles" is actually a reference to the devil...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
You guessed my name alright...
Apparently, very few people know that "Mephistopheles" is actually a reference to the devil...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
JeanLuc
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Tell your friend to get a P4 2.4C processor. Its a lot cheaper then the 3000XP, and runs cooler, uses less power and it gives the same performance (and that’s before overclocking). Don't believe me? Look ------> http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030521/index.html
This little baby can reach 3000 Ghz easy, even with the stock fan!
The processor you mate wants costs about £203.12/$326.66 (Retail)
The Intel P4 2.4C costs £135.70/$217.75 which can easily reach 3 Ghz, which costs £325.46/$523.40. So you've got a $200 chip for the price of a $500 chip!
Now consider all the advantages the P4 brings such as HT, large FSB, huge overclocking potentials, quality....there’s no reason to get the AMD 3000XP.
Not to AMD's are bad. There great if you want to make a budget system, I saying that the 3000XP is bad Value for money at the moment.
This little baby can reach 3000 Ghz easy, even with the stock fan!
The processor you mate wants costs about £203.12/$326.66 (Retail)
The Intel P4 2.4C costs £135.70/$217.75 which can easily reach 3 Ghz, which costs £325.46/$523.40. So you've got a $200 chip for the price of a $500 chip!
Now consider all the advantages the P4 brings such as HT, large FSB, huge overclocking potentials, quality....there’s no reason to get the AMD 3000XP.
Not to AMD's are bad. There great if you want to make a budget system, I saying that the 3000XP is bad Value for money at the moment.
I just bought a 2.4c and love the damn thing, few clicks and I'm running at 2.88. Friend just put together a 3000+ system and we 3dmark exactly the same go figure. I like Intel personally but AMD cpu's have some good value.
"Bush+Rumsfield=Dictatorship"
"Bush+Rumsfield=Dictatorship"
slvr_phoenix
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That's like saying that everyone is getting ripped off for buying a '00 Ford Taurus for ten grand instead of an '82 Buick for two hundred. Or for buying a three bedroom/two bathroom house for their wife and two kids instead of renting a two bedroom/one bath apartment.
Just because someone <i>chooses</i> to spend more money does not mean that they are 'getting ripped off'. It means that they weighed the pros and cons and decided that they could make a purchase that would enrich their life at a cost that they could afford.
People wouldn't buy something if they couldn't afford it, and if they <i>do</i> buy something that they can't afford then the repo man will cometh.
So to claim that people are 'getting ripped off' for making a concsious choice to spend <i>their</i> money in a way that <i>benefits them</i>, whether significantly above the minimal necessity or not, is just closed-minded ill-mannered banter.
Who are you to judge the manner in which people can and can't spend their money to enrich their lives whether through necessity or just good old-fashioned pleasure?
<font color=purple><pre><A HREF="http://www.winamp.com" target="_new">Winamp<b><font color=blue>3</font color=blue></b></A> and freeform skins, the best thing since sliced llama loaf. (Now with more beef.)</pre><p></font color=purple>
wolverinero79
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Actually, buying any ford taurus year 2000 and after IS getting ripped off (i don't care about the price) 
.
But i get your point. People who buy Intel all the time may pay a little more at times, but they almost always know what they are getting. It's like McDonald's in other countries (here we go again). McDonald's may cost more than other, local fast food places, but you KNOW what you're getting.
A big part of buying is eliminating risk. As the risk increases, the price drops. In the past, AMD had risk for compatibility issues, heat issues, etc (less now, obviously). Although today, now there's risk that AMD won't be around in the future (more risk than Intel at least).
I'm just your average habitual smiler =D
.But i get your point. People who buy Intel all the time may pay a little more at times, but they almost always know what they are getting. It's like McDonald's in other countries (here we go again). McDonald's may cost more than other, local fast food places, but you KNOW what you're getting.
A big part of buying is eliminating risk. As the risk increases, the price drops. In the past, AMD had risk for compatibility issues, heat issues, etc (less now, obviously). Although today, now there's risk that AMD won't be around in the future (more risk than Intel at least).
I'm just your average habitual smiler =D
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