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Intel document confirms Prescott dissipates 103 W

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August 18, 2003 1:04:08 PM

PESKY 90nm process:

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11092" target="_new">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11092&lt;/A>

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It finished <b>SETI</b> in <b>10 seconds.</b>
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August 18, 2003 2:00:21 PM

Yeah Prescott will havea MAX MHZ of 3.4 GHZ

INTEL just gave MAD the breathing room it needed
August 18, 2003 2:08:18 PM

MAD is my nickname for AMD ;)  See sig!

AMD Is An Anagram Of MAD, Intel Is An Anagram Of INLET, Cyrix...Ah Who Cares?
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August 18, 2003 2:25:42 PM

Max of 3.4 Ghz I don't think so.
August 18, 2003 3:24:58 PM

that might be what they're clocking it at for the early production models, but explain to me why over several months they can't refine there process and reduce heat to increase clock speeds?
August 18, 2003 3:55:08 PM

It seems that a lot of the first products to hit the market have their little issues in the beginning. The real test of Prescott will be next year. Give Intel a few more months of refining the 90nm process and new steppings for Prescott and that chip will likely be awesome.

Take A64 for example, when it is finally launched it will be primarily with single channel memory. This version will not likely put up much competition, but that doesn't mean later versions next year won't perform better.



<font color=white>---</font color=white>
Wanted: Large breasted live-in housekeeper. Must be a good cook, organized, and willing to pick up after me.
August 18, 2003 4:48:15 PM

prescott will have a max MHZ of 3.4 GHZ this year

that if its releasedthis year

i highly doubt it...
August 18, 2003 5:18:38 PM

It will be released. 3.4 Ghz max for this year.
August 18, 2003 9:48:05 PM

2.8ghz,3.0ghz,3.6ghz in january 2004
4.4ghz max out in december 2004

<font color=blue>
My computer is <b>sooo fast</b>,
It finished <b>SETI</b> in <b>10 seconds.</b>
<font color=blue>
August 18, 2003 9:49:12 PM

Official documents? From the Inquirer? Don't make me laugh...
August 18, 2003 9:50:45 PM

it's from other site, Ground Zero i think.

<font color=blue>
My computer is <b>sooo fast</b>,
It finished <b>SETI</b> in <b>10 seconds.</b>
<font color=blue>
August 18, 2003 10:33:35 PM

I guarantee you AMD will suffer worse with transitioning.

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August 19, 2003 2:34:13 AM

Right Scotty 4.4 Ghz. Tejas starts with 4.4 or 4.5 Ghz.
August 19, 2003 10:59:45 AM

i'm jmecor :evil: 

<font color=blue>
My computer is <b>sooo fast</b>,
It finished <b>SETI</b> in <b>10 seconds.</b>
<font color=blue>
August 19, 2003 8:37:57 PM

What the heck are you even posting about?

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August 19, 2003 11:43:52 PM

Quote:
I guarantee you AMD will suffer worse with transitioning.

There is no way you can say that for sure. You can guess, and ONLY guess, no facts can lead you to a statement like that. And correct me if I am wrong but during the last few weeks/months you have made a couple of guesses about AMD (and Intel) that turned out to be wrong.

Anyway, my point is .. how can you come to a post that is talking about Intel and Prescott, and the only thing you post is "I guarantee you AMD will suffer worse with transitioning"? Talk about Intel, talk about the issues they are having, and leave AMD out of this! Maybe you could mention it of course after doing all the things above but to me, this is getting a little bit annoying. In every post there is, where Intel or AMD is mentioned, you are always there to backup Intel with everything you have. I really can't understand this. Sure, it's your right but they way you do it is becoming a little bit annoying for me.

In everything 'The Inquirer' posts for example, that is bad for Intel you say "that's just a rumour, it's bullshit". But the thing is, a rumour can either be invalid, or valid. Did you ever think of that? I really believe after all the info that got out lately that Intel IS having trouble with Prescott and I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want a CPU that dissipates 103W, no matter how fast it is!!!

Anyway, I am sure you won't agree with me but this was something I felt saying.
August 20, 2003 1:40:46 AM

Quote:
In everything 'The Inquirer' posts for example, that is bad for Intel you say "that's just a rumour, it's bullshit".

Quote me right now.

Quote:
I really believe after all the info that got out lately that Intel IS having trouble with Prescott

Sure I had doubts about how true this is, but since it's become so widely heard, I believe it will happen. Especially when they said "Intel confirms with documents".

Quote:
where Intel or AMD is mentioned, you are always there to backup Intel with everything you have.

Only, and ONLY an AMD fanboy would take the tree for the forest like that and make me out to be some pro-Intel dude. Furthermore have you read my little concession in the AMD Shares up thread?

Quote:
You can guess, and ONLY guess, no facts can lead you to a statement like that.

I AM guessing, and with certainty in fact. Everytime AMD transitions, they get more problems than Intel, and it's to be expected. They have a weaker chip, and only one fab to try the job. You either succeed or you don't and have to try again.

Quote:
you have made a couple of guesses about AMD (and Intel) that turned out to be wrong.

So I couldn't predict, sue me.
Quote:
Sure, it's your right but they way you do it is becoming a little bit annoying for me.

And again, only an AMD fanboy would see it that way. Try Pope for size dude.

Quote:
Talk about Intel, talk about the issues they are having, and leave AMD out of this!

You can't tell no one what to say here. I know this place for almost 2 years, I have been here and know this place by heart, for almost 2 years, and have above 10000 posts of experience (not to show off), I KNOW how this place functions, and what you're saying here is illogical, irrational and nonsense.

At best, you're angry because I said that, when it is a given at the very least AMD will have troubles. Would you try your guns at this?
And btw, JMECOR posted news about Intel having trouble, and I answered him back that AMD will do so as well, and very likely in fact run into more troubles. If I am wrong, then so be it, I'll concede like I concede to anything I am wrong to.
EDIT: Replaced Pope with Jme, my bad.
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August 20, 2003 1:56:45 AM

i always say

its takes a man to make a bold statment...then admit he was wrong afterwards if he has to eat crow...
August 20, 2003 9:23:14 AM

Quote:
You can't tell no one what to say here

tut tut double negative there eden... sloppy
August 20, 2003 7:01:06 PM

What exactly do you mean, mr. RCJ?

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August 20, 2003 7:41:50 PM

I am too bored to open a discussion about this with you. I could easily sit here, copy one by one every phrase you typed and reply to it. No point in doing so though! But you did made an interesting point:

Quote:
You can't tell no one what to say here

Then what's all the fuss with <b>popegoldx</b> for? He has been saying whatever he wants! I don't see why you can do so and he can't. Your points are no more valid than his most of the time anyway!

Of course this has nothing to do with the point of my initial post but I thought it was kind of funny you said that.
August 20, 2003 7:55:23 PM

Quote:
Your points are no more valid than his most of the time anyway!

You're using your inexperience and time in this forum to judge me? That's laughable.
And I won't even waste my time trying to prove you I contribute, because there's no honor in trying to prove fanbois who judge.

Quote:
I could easily sit here, copy one by one every phrase you typed and reply to it.

If you're too bored that means you got nothing to do, so get on it!

Quote:
Of course this has nothing to do with the point of my initial post

Again I WAS on topic. I was pointing out the likely chance of AMD having 0.09m troubles.
I even went pointing out my post in another thread. But hey, you don't listen do you?

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August 20, 2003 9:25:48 PM

Quote:
You're using your inexperience and time in this forum to judge me? That's laughable.
And I won't even waste my time trying to prove you I contribute, because there's no honor in trying to prove fanbois who judge.

Hm .. that was your reply to the comment I made, that some of your points are not valid? During the last few weeks you keep making statements like Prescott is going to be a hell of a processor or A64 is going to be a flop or There is no way Intel is having heat issues with Prescott, that's just roumors or It's 100000% sure that AMD is going to run into a lot of trouble with the 0.09m conversion and so on. No proof, no links, no facts, no nothing. That's "no valid" for me. At least, that's what <b>you</b> request from others when they say something, proof and facts ... you should maybe follow your advice too!

Btw, from my very first reply to you, you called me an AMD fanboy. Call me a Cyrix fanboy too for all I care! But using that logic, I guess that this surely makes you an Intel fanboy.

Quote:
And I won't even waste my time trying to prove you I contribute ...

Where did I say that you don't? I saw something that annoyed me in your last few posts and I said it. There is no reason getting so emotional about this!!!!
August 20, 2003 9:58:58 PM

Quote:
I guess that this surely makes you an Intel fanboy.

Naw, it wouldn't.
I've commented lately a lot about AMD, good stuff, and own an AMD, proudly.

Quote:
making statements like Prescott is going to be a hell of a processor

That's because it WILL. It's a logical processor evolution. There is no IPC stripped, it's not a new core, it's like a clock speed boost, natural and proven to work right. (under regular silicon conditions)
Prescott will have added cache, will boast an expanded Trace Cache (although how effective it will be is questionable due to limited per-clock dispatching), will have an even better HT (which I already like a lot), will have PNI for better multimedia and finally an increased clock. Just where do you see it flipping out, and my comment being invalid?
A64 has a damn powerful weapon, the ODMC, but what else? SS2? It only brings it to compete, but does not arm it any further. You just gave the disadvantaged warrior the same blade as the enemy, doesn't make you stronger than him if you don't have something else to back that weapon up. If they add more SSE2 registers, expand the instruction set, then yeah, I'd say A64 has a lot to give.
But as of now, its advancements are relatively not as interesting. (cache is likely not gonna yeild a lot of performance as well, consider Barton's effect of cache doubling) I sure hope AMD can add some components, but no roadmap has revealed that yet. It's all about the transition now.

BTW saying Prescott'll be a hell of processor does not mean its heat output will be as well man. I am speaking technically-wise on the core design itself.

Quote:
A64 is going to be a flop

Considering Opteron at 2GHZ is not enough, and that a few weeks ago 2GHZ was the projected speed, you've not made a case to accuse me of being wrong for my statement.
Heck, why did you not jump at the respected Crashman, who also said back then AMD will fall soon?

Quote:
There is no way Intel is having heat issues with Prescott

Again back then, it was like the Prescott compatibility issue, all rumors. Then, you combine the facts of what a process transition does and the advancements Intel had introduced to 0.09m, it's of no surprise to myself that we would doubt this. So it's real now, I was wrong, sue me!

Quote:
It's 100000% sure that AMD is going to run into a lot of trouble with the 0.09m conversion and so on.

I don't need proof on that one, I am projecting, and with certainty. I still believe it will, and trust me, it is likely. I finally had another person who agreed, in another thread here.

Quote:
At least, that's what you request from others when they say something

You have partially a point, because most often those people are those who made the thread, so they should at least back what they're trying to say. The rest is commentary which some like me will do, ya know.
Quote:
you called me an AMD fanboy.

In almost every thing I said, you always jumped at me and defended AMD so much. Don't you get it already? I've nothing against them, I support both AMD and Intel equally. What, you want me to say "GO AMD, GO PR THE LIVING HELL OUT OF US" when they had released all those crap processors recently? Or how they gave this blind PR of 3400+ given to a way too low clock speed?

Quote:
There is no reason getting so emotional about this!!!!

I'm not, I haven't insulted you or anything. I am agressive by nature when I argument and I like seeing how some are quick to judge me, so I give them back what they deserve, an agressive debate.


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August 21, 2003 12:22:09 AM

Conclusion:

Until Intel reduces the heat disipation I will not be able to buy their product. My AMD 1 Ghz Tbird dissipates enough heat to make my room an oven. And it's only <b>54.5W</b>.

Hopefully by the time they're at 4Ghz they'll have sorted through this.

______________________________________________
<A HREF="http://www.teenirc.net/chat/tomshardware.html" target="_new">http://www.teenirc.net/chat/tomshardware.html&lt;/A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by dhlucke on 08/20/03 05:26 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 21, 2003 12:30:08 AM

Power output doesn't necessarily equal heat output. Tbirds had a bad core arrangement, had an exposed core, no dissipation area really.
Palominos made it much better, and Tbreds run very cool, yet they are now at 70W and higher.

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August 21, 2003 1:05:11 AM

Actually wouldn't power output exactly equal heat dissipation?

Think about it. You have a device that consumes x amount of power. The device does no mechanical work. All the energy consumed must be converted to heat.

The temps of Tbreds may be lower but if they consume more power then they also dissipate more heat.

<b>56K, slow and steady does not win the race on internet!</b>
August 21, 2003 1:57:11 AM

Logically yes, but Tbirds were extremely hot, at 70W, yet Bartons at the same power consumption would generally run cooler.

I have little chemistry knowledge so I can't fend for my knowledge, on this one.

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August 21, 2003 2:36:49 AM

Probably due to HSF improvements. IIRC AMD requires a heatsink with a copper base for T-Bred's.
August 21, 2003 3:02:38 AM

Only the new ones I believe.
Also this further shows you can counter the power output problems. P4's have excellent and efficient heatsinks, so I would not worry too much about Prescott's temps yet.

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August 21, 2003 3:15:12 AM

Quote:
Logically yes, but Tbirds were extremely hot, at 70W, yet Bartons at the same power consumption would generally run cooler

I don't know about that. According to <A HREF="http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm" target="_new">this chart</A> a Barton XP3200+ normally would dissipate about 60 watts. The Thunderbird that is closest to this level would be the 1.3 at 61 watts.

I dont think Barton XP3200+ would run cooler than a Tbird 1.3 (not that I have an XP3200+ to test).

<b>56K, slow and steady does not win the race on internet!</b>
August 21, 2003 3:57:34 AM

I agree. I would like to see this so called "official" document that the Inquirer has. Oh wait, I forgot, we probably can't see it since the Inquirer is under an NDA :wink: .

Everytime the Inq mentions something "official", they never have links to back it up. I have stopped paying attention to their articles.



- - -
"... In the semiconductor industry, it's good to be paranoid ..." - [Andy Grove]</font color=green>
August 21, 2003 3:57:38 AM

Wow ... it looks like I am not the only person who thinks you sometimes post hypocritical or contradictory material. Your posts just ooze uncertainty, I mean, one day you love AMD, next day you don't, then you do again...

I mean, take the "AMD shares" post for example. You change your mind so quickly it's unbelievable. And you like to jmup to so many conclusions without stopping to think. The reason the shares went up is due to the snowball effect of traders buying stock after hearing of some random tech analyst buying AMD stock. That's all there is to it. Yet you jumped to all sorts of conclusions.

On the other hand...

Quote:

Power output doesn't necessarily equal heat output. Tbirds had a bad core arrangement, had an exposed core, no dissipation area really.
Palominos made it much better, and Tbreds run very cool, yet they are now at 70W and higher.

This is one of the smartest things I've ever seen you post. Amazing that you actually posting something that I did several times now. In fact, back when you deemed my the "preacher" I used to say that pwoer output and heat output are two different things. For example, current Northwoods output more heat than current Bartons, BUT, they run at about the same temperature, becuase of the great heat management of the P4.

- - -
"... In the semiconductor industry, it's good to be paranoid ..." - [Andy Grove]</font color=green>
August 21, 2003 4:02:09 AM

Look. Let me make this perfectly clear.

Heat. It has to go somewhere.

Is there a difference between power output and heat displacement and what is it for the prescott?

Heat Management? What does that mean? Just because a HSF is good at getting the heat away from the core does not mean that the heat just dissapeared after that.

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August 21, 2003 4:58:50 AM

Quote:
one day you love AMD, next day you don't,


I.......<i>love</i>...AMD?

Can you ever speak to a mirror sometimes?

Quote:
You change your mind so quickly it's unbelievable

You did not even read right if that's how you see it.
I said I slowly changed my mind given that now there is more evidence that AMD is responding and improving.
Quote:
The reason the shares went up is due to the snowball effect of traders buying stock after hearing of some random tech analyst buying AMD stock

Isn't that what I also thought?
Quote:
Yet you jumped to all sorts of conclusions

WHICH? I agreed to the fact that the good news spurs stock purchasing, where the heck did you pick up on me saying otherwise?

I just can't understand how people read posts lately, seriously. And worse is you're the one to talk, you've so little experience in this forum as is! You jump in and when you see something, you use it without any other evidence!
Mind you I won't get troubled up over you, you're just trying to judge, judge and judge.

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August 21, 2003 5:01:31 AM

BTW Dark, how DO you feel about nVidia lately, if I may ask?

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August 21, 2003 5:34:49 AM

ROFL... this reminds me of the "other" forum lmao

<font color=orange><b>
sex is bad, bad is sin, sin is forgiven so sex is in
August 21, 2003 8:58:24 AM

Quote:
What exactly do you mean, mr. RCJ?

double negative.. like sayin i cant not do that.. if you think about cant and not are both negative terms... by using them both together in a sentence the sentence then becomes positive ie "i cant not.." becomes "i will.."
its like maths 2 negatives become a positive. pedantic i know but i was in a funny mood yesterday and its bad grammer. sorry for the late reply tho been busy... :evil: 
August 21, 2003 9:00:28 AM

I was beginning to think that this is just like old times....all the good ole' flame wars!

Ahhhh....so good to see things returning to "NORMAL"!!!

ROFLMAO!!!!

<font color=blue> Ok, so you have to put your "2 cents" in, but its value is only "A penny's worth". Who gets that extra penny? </font color=blue>
August 21, 2003 12:39:13 PM

Bah, Flamewars of the deep were filled with insults and absolute trash.

I wouldn't call this a flamewar at all.

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August 21, 2003 10:28:39 PM

what about the ones in the other forum eh eh eh????

<font color=orange><b>
sex is bad, bad is sin, sin is forgiven so sex is in
August 21, 2003 10:29:21 PM

btw... whats crash's email?

<font color=orange><b>
sex is bad, bad is sin, sin is forgiven so sex is in
August 21, 2003 11:50:31 PM

Your right this is not a flame war. It is more like trash talking, 2v1 I might add. Oh well, we all can't get along all the time.

<font color=blue>"You know, that my backstab attack does double the damage. I can make an off button for him." </font color=blue> :cool:
August 22, 2003 12:30:20 AM

this is the 1st time i saw you here in graphics forums.

<font color=blue>
My computer is <b>sooo fast</b>,
It finished <b>SETI</b> in <b>10 seconds.</b>
<font color=blue>
August 22, 2003 12:32:02 AM

what's up with the flame wars, i'm barely gone for two days!

<font color=blue>
My computer is <b>sooo fast</b>,
It finished <b>SETI</b> in <b>10 seconds.</b>
<font color=blue>
August 22, 2003 12:36:21 AM

no, you still haven't! i'm in the cpu forum right now

<font color=orange><b>
sex is bad, bad is sin, sin is forgiven so sex is in
August 22, 2003 2:22:23 AM

Ahh the OTHER, plenty of fun...

The real flame war will happen soon, and a hint to which one?
The target is in the kind of war we're doing. :wink:

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August 22, 2003 3:43:36 AM

WHO????

LMAO

<font color=orange><b>
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!