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Eriond   08-29-2003 at 10:09:30 PM

Shuttle AN35 (nf 400 ultra)
ATI Radeon 9500
1 gig Corsair XMS 333 ram
2500 barton

i boot the computer with just the above in

with 300 watt Enlight (came with case 7237)
computer boots/posts/works with all equipment

with 300 watt Antec (came with the lanboy case)
external power header attached to vid card
power blinks on, heat sink spins up power drops after 1/2 second and the computer will not even attempt to restart until the power is disconnected and plugged back in (same thing repeats)

external power header not attached to the vid card
system boots, but hi/low beeping (vid card not attached) repeats and no official boot, system will let me shut down and restart, same results

with 300 watt Allied PS (rma exchange at Newegg)
external power header attached to vid card
power blinks on, heat sink spins up power drops after 1/2 second and the computer will not even attempt to restart until the power is disconnected and plugged back in (same thing repeats)

external power header not attached to the vid card
system boots, but hi/low beeping (vid card not attached) repeats and no official boot, system will let me shut down and restart, same results

with 400 watt Manhattan PS (mom/pop shop)
external power header attached to vid card
power blinks on, heat sink spins up power drops after 1/2 second and the computer will not even attempt to restart until the power is disconnected and plugged back in (same thing repeats)

external power header not attached to the vid card
system boots, but hi/low beeping (vid card not attached) repeats and no official boot, system will let me shut down and restart, same results

Is Enlight a super PS or is something fishy going on here?

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4ryan6   08-29-2003 at 10:43:53 PM
- 0 +

I think you can safely rule out the P/S as being the problem. When you mounted the M/B did you make absolutely sure you only had mounting studs at the mounting holes on the M/B, and if the backplate came with the studs premounted you removed the unnecessary ones? It sounds to me like a shorted out M/B.

<b><font color=purple>Details, Details, Its all in the Details, If you need help, Don't leave out the Details.</font color=purple></b>

Reply to 4ryan6
Eriond   08-29-2003 at 10:48:41 PM
- 0 +

Well, I had to take the motherboard out everytime I replaced the power supply b/c of a tight fit. I don't think I repeatedly grounded the mobo with every ps other than the first?

Reply to Eriond
4ryan6   08-29-2003 at 11:51:59 PM
- 0 +

If you're positive the M/Bs not shorted, then either you have a bad M/B, CPU, or RAM, P/S wise the second change out eliminated that as a possibility.

<b><font color=purple>Details, Details, Its all in the Details, If you need help, Don't leave out the Details.</font color=purple></b>

Reply to 4ryan6
Crashman   08-30-2003 at 01:07:55 AM
- 0 +

Did you use the same case every time, even with the first power supply?

There's a possibility you have always had an intermittant ground, because there was just a hairs width at one time separating the offending mount durring one attempt, so that one attempt worked.

Also, you have to have the power button attached, and use it, to get the thing to power up. Just plugging it in only spins the fans for a couple seconds without turning the system on.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Reply to Crashman
pIII_Man   08-30-2003 at 01:32:03 AM
- 0 +

could it be that you arn't giving your system enough juice?

Normally 350watts is the recomended minimum...probably the mom and pop psu was way overrated...

I beleive enlight uses fortron powersupplies? if this is the case that powersupply was putting out way over 300 watts (more like 350-380)


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:

Reply to pIII_Man
Eriond   08-30-2003 at 05:43:27 AM
- 0 +

Yes, I used the same case every time.
this is the exact order (the power/reset are attached to the mobo)
Enlight = work
Antec = no work
Allied = no work
Manhatten = no work
Enlight (again, same PS) = work

I currently have the computer running with the enlight (everything is hooked up and windows is running). I would simply like to know why Enlight PS is the only one that works?

Thanks

Reply to Eriond
neveroldmilk   08-30-2003 at 06:18:19 AM
- 0 +

It may be a compatible problem.So u know it is hard to say what the problem really is.Then i guess the electric current`s supply is the key,that is to say some PS can give enough for the mobo,but some not.

Reply to neveroldmilk
Eriond   08-31-2003 at 04:29:43 AM
- 0 +

I've never heard of this before...

Reply to Eriond
neveroldmilk   08-31-2003 at 04:57:31 AM
- 0 +

Difficult to understand?Right,i have never thought it like this before i saw it happened.

Reply to neveroldmilk
pIII_Man   08-31-2003 at 07:48:23 AM
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if the powersupply is giving shitty current (mixed with some AC) then the computer may be unstable

if the voltage is fluctuating...then the computer may be unstable...

it has nothing to do with compatability...


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:

Reply to pIII_Man
neveroldmilk   08-31-2003 at 09:09:57 AM
- 0 +

Just might be!U know 5.0V is ok,and 5.1V is ok too.But sometimes mobo feels 5.0V is not good enough ,and wont start!Right? :smile:

Reply to neveroldmilk
Flinx   08-31-2003 at 01:03:19 PM
- 0 +

Could it be how much power is put out on each rail of the power supply? (3V, 5V, 12V)
<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=361277#361277" target="_new"> Why ur video won't run </A>


The loving are the daring!

Reply to Flinx
Eriond   08-31-2003 at 02:19:59 PM
- 0 +

Interesting, so Antec case PSs don't give stable (or advertised) current?

Reply to Eriond
neveroldmilk   08-31-2003 at 03:13:11 PM
- 0 +

Good but not enough,just may be!

Reply to neveroldmilk
pIII_Man   08-31-2003 at 08:33:29 PM
- 0 +

well 300 watts is not enough for most systems....it is normally recomended to use 350 at a bare minimum....

so you are stretching all powersupplies very far...


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:

Reply to pIII_Man
pIII_Man   08-31-2003 at 08:40:26 PM
- 0 +

true...but ultimatly this will cause the powersupply's voltage to fluctuate...and possibly fail :frown:


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:

Reply to pIII_Man
Flinx   08-31-2003 at 08:58:38 PM
- 0 +

Oh I agree about the 350 Watts minimum. I'm just thinking why one will work an the others won't.

The anandtech article on PSU's describes how the various PSU's put out different amounts of power on the different rails.

The loving are the daring!

Reply to Flinx
pIII_Man   08-31-2003 at 09:12:58 PM
- 0 +

i beleive enlight uses powerman powersupplies....which are made by fortron...

a 300 watt fortron will stably put out over 350 watts...


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:

Reply to pIII_Man
Eriond   08-31-2003 at 11:59:03 PM
- 0 +

But that's it, the 400 watt PS couldn't do it but the 300 watt could? That doesn't make sense?

Reply to Eriond
Eriond   09-01-2003 at 12:02:24 AM
- 0 +

I'm requiring an excess amount of watts from my Enermax and it's the only one able to sustain that? But my test was with only the cpu/motherboard/vid card? That surely cannot be 300 watts can it?

Reply to Eriond
Flinx   09-01-2003 at 12:42:38 AM
- 0 +

<A HREF="http://www4.tomshardware.com/howto/20021021/powersupplies-02.html" target="_new">Toms </A>

Quote :


IDE Hard Drive (RAID group) 0.80 A 2.00 A 4 112.00
Processor AMD Athlon XP 2100+, 1.75 V 7.49 A 1 89.88
RAM Module (128 MByte DDR-DIMM) 2.00 A 3 30.00
AGP Graphics Card (Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti 4600) 6.00 A 2.00 A 1 29.80
Motherboard with on-board devices 3.00 A 2.00 A 0.30 A 1 23.50
DVD-ROM 1.20 A 1.10 A 1 19.20
CD-RW 1.20 A 0.80 A 1 15.60
IEEE 1394 1.60 A 1 8.00
USB Devices 0.50 A 2 5.00
PCI Sound 0.50 A 0.50 A 1 4.15
Floppy 0.80 A 1 4.00
PCI-LAN 0.40 A 0.4 0A 1 3.32
System Fan 0.25 A 1 3.00
Processor Fan 0.25 A 1 3.00
PCI Modem 0.50 A 1 2.50
Keyboard 0.25 A 1 1.25
Mouse 0.25 A 1 1.25
Total Power Required 355.45 W


You had what plugged in for your test?

The loving are the daring!

Reply to Flinx
Eriond   09-01-2003 at 12:48:31 AM
- 0 +

All I wanted was for the things to turn on. The only things I had plugged in were the 9500 Radeon Video card, Shuttle AN35 Ultra 400 mobo, Barton 2500+ with fan

All the power supplies would turn on if I didn't have the external header on the video card plugged in, but they all gave the message your video card needs the power connected.

Only the enlight would start with the video card plugged in. The others would provide a second or so worth of power and then turn off, the only way to get them to try to start again was by unplugging the power.

Reply to Eriond
Flinx   09-01-2003 at 12:54:32 AM
- 0 +

if one 128MB Dim used 30Watts then 1GB uses?
I thought it was about 8Watts for 128 of SDRAM.
Is it 30W for 128 DDR? Seems a bit much.
Yep it is <A HREF="http://www.overclockers.com/articles696/" target="_new"> memory power </A>

Hmmmm, can anyone explain why Toms used 30W for 128MB of DDR?


Eriond, the point I'm trying to make here is that the power supplies put out different amounts of power on their respective power rails. If you've got the wrong proportion the power supply total Watts are not going to help.

The loving are the daring!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Flinx on 08/31/03 07:07 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

Reply to Flinx
pIII_Man   09-01-2003 at 02:07:30 AM
- 0 +

dont beleive everything you read...if all psus put out what they stated enermax and antec would not be in buisness cause they charge too much...

Fact of the matter is that 90% of powersupplies are over rated....and the fact that your 400 watt psu was a no name brand makes me very suspicious of its quality...


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:

Reply to pIII_Man
slvr_phoenix   09-02-2003 at 05:08:56 PM
- 0 +

Quote :

with 300 watt Antec (came with the lanboy case)


Sorry, but the Antec Lanboy case comes with a SmartBlue 350W power supply, not a 300W power supply. So that right there is suspicious.

Besides, it's pretty common knowledge that the Antec <b>Smart</b>power supplies aren't all that much better quality than generics. It's the Antec <b>True</b>power supplies that rock.

<font color=blue>If you look <font color=purple>The Devil</font color=purple><font color=red>®</font color=red> straight in the eye and only see yourself then you must be standing in front of a mirror.</font color=blue>

Reply to slvr_phoenix
Eriond   09-02-2003 at 06:19:12 PM
- 0 +

So the other power supplies were all just crappy ones?

Reply to Eriond
slvr_phoenix   09-02-2003 at 08:04:21 PM
- 0 +

Well the Enlight power supply actually doesn't look half bad according to the specs on their website.

The supposed Antec power supply that you have I'm still not sure if it is even an Antec power supply because if it is the stock Antec supply comes with the Lanboy then it should be 350W, not 300W. But even still, as said, Antec's Smarts are their cheap line and really aren't always so dependable. It's Antec's Trues that are high quality and worth their weight in gold.

The Allied power supply is probably like most Allied power supplies, cheap but good so long as you don't press it too close to it's actual limits. Better than most generics, but still nothing stunning.

And Manhattan? I've never even heard of them before. I'd say probably as generic and corner-cutting as most out there, trying to sell based on theoretical high wattages that in reality it would fail on (or worse, puff up in smoke) long before it actually reached them.

So I'd have to say that <i>all</i> of the supplies that you listed were nothing special and your system would have likely put each of them pretty close to (or past) their limits.

<font color=blue>If you look <font color=purple>The Devil</font color=purple><font color=red>®</font color=red> straight in the eye and only see yourself then you must be standing in front of a mirror.</font color=blue>

Reply to slvr_phoenix
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