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OMG!!! In desperate need of help!!

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September 7, 2003 5:53:15 AM

I wanted to test some fans to see which one was the quietest and I forgot that I had taken off the heatsink of my Athlon XP 1700+!!! The PC started booting but then it beeped and I heard a very faint crackle and smelled something. I managed to turn off the computer and now when I turn on the computer all that happens is that the red hard drive LED turns on brightly at first and then dim but the green Power On LED does not turn on. I removed the processor and turned on the computer and it does the same thing so I am thinking that one of these two things happened:
A) I fried the CPU and it isnt being detected.
B) I fried the CPU and the motherboard.

To help me figure out what happened, can someone please tell me how the Soyo Dragon Plus responds when it does not have a CPU? If someone has a Soyo Dragon Plus, please remove the processor from your computer and turn it on. Tell me what happens. Does only the red hard drive LED turn on?

Thanks in advance and I really need your help this time because that is my only computer and I need to fix it before I go to college in 2 weeks.

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September 7, 2003 6:42:40 AM

That's a standard response for no CPU. You fried your CPU, and probably nothing else.

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September 7, 2003 6:56:00 AM

The motherboard actually has 2 regulators. They are TO220 Packaged transistors mounted on small Heatsinks located not too far from the processor. When you turn your computer on, both of these should be warm when you touch them. IF they are not, then your motherboard popped. Sometimes the CPU is actually able to survive. But as cheap as the components are these days, you will be better off replacing both of them, jsut to be safe. Why? Because if you plug in your new CPU and it does happen to be fried, then it can take out your new motherboard as well.

If you have Basic VOM {Voltage Ohmeter} you could test out the motherboard's regulators using reference ground & check the potentical differences between the base, emmitter, & collector. THis would tell you for sure.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by UFO_WARVIPER on 09/07/03 03:01 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
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September 7, 2003 6:59:21 AM

I can tell you your cpu is certainly dead. <A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20010917/index.html" target="_new">http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20010917/index.html&lt;/A>
Not to fear <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=1..." target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=1...;/A> and here. <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=1..." target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=1...;/A>

These specs are here so I don't have to repeat them. P4 2.4c @ 3.0 ASUS P4P800 dx Geil pc4000 2.5,3,3,6 250FSB 1:1 Radeon 9500 non-pro 2 Maxtor 60gig 7200rpm 8mb cach in raid 0 SB Audigy 2
September 7, 2003 7:01:08 AM

Wow in the time it took me to post my message. Two other people beat me to it. Took me awhile to get my links working right.

These specs are here so I don't have to repeat them. P4 2.4c @ 3.0 ASUS P4P800 dx Geil pc4000 2.5,3,3,6 250FSB 1:1 Radeon 9500 non-pro 2 Maxtor 60gig 7200rpm 8mb cach in raid 0 SB Audigy 2
September 7, 2003 8:49:31 AM

I looked around the CPU socket but all I see are the tiny resistors and some cylinders which I think are capacitors. What do the regulators look like. I saw some electronic components that are square and have 3 leads coming out of them, but there are about 6 of them and dont know which ones you were referring to. Also I have a digital multimeter. What are the potential differences supposed to be?

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September 7, 2003 9:00:15 AM

I dont know if this info will help you determine whether the motherboard is fried also, but here it goes:

-The CPU gets very hot when I turn on the power even though it doesnt work. This means that the motherboard is providing current so this may be a clue that it still works.
-The northbridge (the chip with the passive heatsink) get warm after a minute or so of being on.
-The +5V indicator LED on the motherboard is turned on.
-The motherboard gives a few very faint clicks (not beeps) through the PC speaker.
-The CPU HSF connecter still gives current to the fan, so current is flowing.
-Nothing appears to be physically wrong with the motherboard. No smoke marks. No darkening. No broken resistors, etc.

The awkward thing is that when the CPU got fried, I did not see any smoke come out, and the core did not burn like in the THG tests shown in the link that siranthony provided. The CPU looks physically good. No darkening or black smoke marks.
The only thing that made me realize that the CPU was fried was that I heard a small crackle or pop.

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September 7, 2003 10:32:07 AM

I'm just curious. Why would leaving the heat sink off of the CPU damage the mother board? And how could the CPU possibly survive when the MB is dead?

These specs are here so I don't have to repeat them. P4 2.4c @ 3.0 ASUS P4P800 dx Geil pc4000 2.5,3,3,6 250FSB 1:1 Radeon 9500 non-pro 2 Maxtor 60gig 7200rpm 8mb cach in raid 0 SB Audigy 2
September 7, 2003 1:54:15 PM

maybe the cpu slot in the mobois also burned.
September 7, 2003 3:02:12 PM

Nothing like the smell of fried Cpu first thing in the morning.
September 7, 2003 3:04:16 PM

Do you have any Cyrix chips to go along with the fried Cpu?
September 7, 2003 4:23:10 PM

My guess is you just fried the cpu

I think that pop you heard was one (or many) of the cpu's traces bursting...i think your quick shut off stoped anything worse from happening...i would say your board is fine...

If the cpu is still getting hot then its getting power...same with the NB...

Like crashman said running any board without a cpu will basically yeild a power on...fans spinning...and maybe some hard drive access...

BTW....i would not turn on that system again with that cpu...as your cpu may have an internal short...running it may put a lot of stress on your mobo


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
September 8, 2003 6:33:59 AM

Here's what happened:

I went back to the store where I bought the Dragon Plus motherboard and since I had bought a 2-year extended warranty, they replaced the motherboard with an Asus A7V8X (w/FireWire, GB Lan, USB2, Raid). Apparently the Dragon Plus was also fried because they tested it and said it did not power on. Do you think I got a good replacement motherboard?

Also, since my CPU was fried, I had to buy an Athlon XP 2500+ Barton core processor ($99.99). And then I also got the Thermaltake Volcano 11+ but it is freaking noisy, even noisier than my Thermaltake Volcano 6cu+. If i lower the fan speed to the middle or lowest speed, my CPU temps start going up so I have to leave it at high.

My current idle CPU temp is 56C and my system temp. is 42C. I think these are a bit too high. My old Palomino 1700+ was running at 46C idle, system was 37C.

Also since I only have DDR266 memory, I am only able to run my board at 133x13.5 which gives me around 1800Mhz.

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September 8, 2003 7:18:30 AM

Sounds like you got a better mother board. The dragon+ can only take a 2100+ max. You proboby got a 333mghz board. All you have to do is upgrade your ram and you have a much better system. The 2500+ is also a very good overclocker. Your CPU temps are too high. Check to see that it is installed properly and put some arctic silver heat sink compound on it.

These specs are here so I don't have to repeat them. P4 2.4c @ 3.0 ASUS P4P800 dx Geil pc4000 2.5,3,3,6 250FSB 1:1 Radeon 9500 non-pro 2 Maxtor 60gig 7200rpm 8mb cach in raid 0 SB Audigy 2
September 8, 2003 7:30:12 AM

I had already put some arctic silver III on the heatsink and cpu core. How much Arctic Silver III is enough? I put a thin layer on the CPU core and a thin layer on the heatsink.
I'll take off the Heatsink and reapply the Arctic Silver 3 tomorrow and see what happens.

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September 8, 2003 9:11:03 AM

You only need a thin layer on the core of the CPU. remember the stuff is only supposed to fill in the microscopic gaps between the core and the HS. So the thinner the better - almost see-thru thin is what you should aim for.

Your temps do sound quite high, for a stock-speed Barton 2500+. If you run the PC with the side of the case off, and a large house fan blowing at the mobo, what are your temps like then (if they are substantially lower, you must have bad airflow in your case)

---
The end is nigh.. (For this post at least) :smile:
September 8, 2003 2:20:23 PM

Also (according to AS's website) AS3 takes a long time to set and during that time temps will go down. Of course I don't know how much of a difference this could really make.... :\

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
September 8, 2003 7:25:29 PM

not much you eternal poster you...


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
September 8, 2003 7:46:06 PM

I'm sorry to hear that both your CPU & mobo both went out. The Asus A7N8X with the NForce2 chipset seems to be a pretty popular pick around here. If your like me & perfer that Dual Bios feature for extra security about BIOS flashes & BIOS viruses, then Gigabyte's crop of boards are also a good pick. I wish the would benchmark the New Via KT600 chipset against the NForce2 to see if its faster or not. If nothing more, it would be good to see if its a better value bang/for/buck wise. Maybe Tom's will have a "Battle of the Titans" article or something of that nature in the next update to the motherboard section.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!
September 8, 2003 10:26:19 PM

Have to correct you here :)  I got the A7 V 8X, not the A7 N 8X. The one i got has the Via KT400 chipset.

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September 8, 2003 10:32:48 PM

I removed the heatsink and cleaned it and also cleaned the CPU. Then I took a small bead of AS3 and spread it on the core, removing some every now and then, until I got the thinnest layer of AS3 I could get without seeing any purpleish color of the core. I could see some purple but I know there was some AS3 over it.

I also removed the fan grill that the Heatsink fan had and put everything back together.
Now my temps at idle at full fan speed (4900-5000rpm) are:
- 46C CPU temp.
- 35C motherboard temp.

I got these temps from the AsusProbe program.
IMPORTANT: I noticed that after I updated the Bios to the latest one, not only did windows recognize the CPU as an Athlon XP 2500+, but it also reported lower temperatures in the Bios. So maybe not even these temps are correct. I probably need to get an actual external thermometer.

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September 9, 2003 7:47:38 AM

Your temps are fine now. A little high but if your not going to overclock it's fine. Check to see if your new board allows you to up the voltage on your memory. If it does you might be able to overclock your ram so you don't have to buy more.

These specs are here so I don't have to repeat them. P4 2.4c @ 3.0 ASUS P4P800 dx Geil pc4000 2.5,3,3,6 250FSB 1:1 Radeon 9500 non-pro 2 Maxtor 60gig 7200rpm 8mb cach in raid 0 SB Audigy 2
September 9, 2003 9:23:43 AM

The ass-us probe is shiitty. What does the bios say? Also what is your room temp?
September 9, 2003 4:31:16 PM

Yeha, that Asus Probe software hasn't really impressed me. :\ I don't trust it much.

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
September 9, 2003 11:08:56 PM

Seems like the Asus probe temp. readings are the same or very close to the readings in the bios. This is probably because the same temp. sensor diodes are used in both the BIOS and by the Asus Probe. Should I just get an actual thermometer that is attached to the CPU with an LCD display?

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September 9, 2003 11:13:37 PM

My current temps at Idle (only running WinAmp and a few browser windows) are:
- 27C room temp.
- 37C motherboard temp.
- 47C CPU temp.

This is at Max CPU fan speed (4800-5000rpm, 48 dbA, 75.7cfm). If I lower my CPU fan to its lowest setting (1300-1500rpm, 17dbA, 20.55cfm) the CPU temp goes up to 56-57 idle.

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September 10, 2003 6:16:47 PM

Quote:
Seems like the Asus probe temp. readings are the same or very close to the readings in the bios. This is probably because the same temp. sensor diodes are used in both the BIOS and by the Asus Probe. Should I just get an actual thermometer that is attached to the CPU with an LCD display?

They are the same diodes used to measure the temp. It's just that the Asus Probe software isn't exactly the best written software. It's prone to having problems and often somehow manages to report the temps wrong. **shrug** Don't ask me how. Same hardware, just different software.

Anywho, don't worry about the temps so much. Worry about the stability. Worry about the noise if that bothers you. If the stability and noise are peachy-keen though, then don't bother worrying about the temps. :) 

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
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