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help with a p-4 system---from the experts

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September 9, 2003 10:57:18 PM

OK GUYS I NEED A LITTLE HELP HERE FROM THE EXPERTS
GOT TWO SYSTEM, BOTH ATHLON, THE BOY BLEW UP HIS MOTHER BOARD AND PROCESSOR SO I GAVE HIM ONE OUT OF MINE. NOW DOWN TO ONE SYSTEM ( NOT ACCEPTABLE ) I WAS GONNA GET A P-4 IN JAN. OR FEB. SO I THINK ILL JUST GET ONE NOW. QUESTION 2.4 OR 2.8, LEANING TOWARD 2.4 AS EVERYONE IS BRAGIN ON IT. MOTHERBOARD IS7 SEEMS TO BE MOST POPULAR. GIVE ME YOUR OPINIONS PLEASE-----I NEED USB-2 AND GOOD SOUND ON BOARD PLUS LAN. AS FOR AS I CAN SEE THE IS7 HAS THAT AT 109.OO DOLLARS. FROM THE WAY I AM READING IT , IT ALSO HAS PAT????
WANT TO O.C. A LITTLE, WOULD THE 2.4 BE BETTER FOR THAT, 2.8 IS 100.00 DOLLARS MORE, BUT I AM TIGHT AND YOU ALL SAID THE 2.4 CAN GO TO 3 GIGS??????.
450 POWER SUPPLY
2-512 3500 HYPER X
ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE APPRECIATED, AND THANK YOU A BUNCH
THE MAN OF STEEL SAID THAT

More about : system experts

September 9, 2003 11:00:14 PM

PS---IS THIS BOARD IS7 POST TO BE COMPATABLE TO NEXT PROCESSOR???????
THANKS AGAIN
THE MAN OF STEEL SAID THAT
September 9, 2003 11:11:55 PM

Capslock? Hmm...learn to use the keyboard before builting a computer...

Th 2.4c or 2.6c would be the best choices for overclocking...both will probably hit 3ghz on stock cooling and voltage with a good quality memory...i recomend Kingston, geil or ocz memory as corsair seems to have more trouble with the 875/65 chipset than other brands do...




Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
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September 9, 2003 11:29:32 PM

Sorry bout the caps , yes i am new to this, thats why i asked the experts like you. Like your advice about the 2.4, dont know if 2.6 comes with 800 fsb, whatcha think about the board, seems like thats the most popular one sold for 865 on new egg. I got kingstone 3500 hyper x.
man of steel said that
September 9, 2003 11:37:03 PM

pIII if your still out there can the 2.4 be o.c. through the bios, by multipliers
September 9, 2003 11:44:27 PM

there is a version of the 2.6 with 800mhz fsb...

And no you must O/C via bus speed...

Yes the IS7 is a nice board


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
September 10, 2003 12:10:09 AM

My toy P4 2.4C OC to 3.0 with stock Hsf. HyperX PC 3500 2 x 512. Psu 430 IS7 Mobo.
September 10, 2003 12:10:39 AM

FOUND THE 2.66 AT 800 FSB, DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER THEN THE 2.4---37.00 MORE
THANK YOU AGAIN
September 10, 2003 12:14:07 AM

2.66? it should be 2.6 if its 2.66 then its probably a 533mhz fsb unit...

capslock?


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
September 10, 2003 12:16:03 AM

P4 2.4C 2.6C 2.8C 3.0c 3.2C all have 800 Fsb.
September 10, 2003 12:18:22 AM

accidently hit caps lock again, your right its a 2.6, not 2.66.
September 10, 2003 12:21:14 AM

You don't have the money for 2.6C than buy the 2.4C
September 10, 2003 12:22:08 AM

How long do you plan on keeping this new puter?
September 10, 2003 12:23:39 AM

Are they all the same core and just clocked more??????
thank you for replying---been wanting a p-4 system for awhile and now seems to be my time. I am new at this but my youngest boy is in networking and basiclly does the brain work when building ( I am old man so forgive my mistakes please )
September 10, 2003 12:31:31 AM

Ha ha, good question, every time a new one comes out i want it, but till next year at least. I am replaceing the mainboard on one) give to son ) so only additional cost would be processor----2500 Barton 90.00 dollars, 2.4 171.00 dollars, but i have heard so many good things bout the 800 fsb p4s----2.6 0nly 37.oo dollars more.
Thanks for your replys, a lot
September 10, 2003 1:00:43 AM

yes same core...but clocked more...


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
September 10, 2003 1:44:54 AM

Thank you again Mr. pIII_Man and Hardware Boss, i would assume that the 2.6 just comes with a bigger heat sink and fan so now will make my choice, will be trying the abit board ( never had one ) and if i have trouble o.c.will ask about in o.c. section. Wish i knew half as much as you guys, gonna retire in a bit and plane on playin with computor a lot more. Thanks a bunch
Man of steel said that ( old high ironworker ) real kinda high
September 10, 2003 2:24:09 AM

Abit makes fine boards...

Actually i think the heatsinks are the same size and model...


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
September 10, 2003 2:55:19 AM

Since you have HyperX PC 3500 if you buy 2.4C IS7 mobo send me PM and I'll show you what I did to OC mine.
September 10, 2003 5:02:51 PM

what`s that , did you say Corsair are having trouble with 865/76 chipsets......!could you go on... !
September 10, 2003 5:39:30 PM

Quote:
as corsair seems to have more trouble with the 875/65 chipset than other brands do...

I haven't had any trouble running my 2x512MB Corsair 3200 XMS on my 865. It's rock solid stable at stock. I haven't tried OCing yet though. (Having just gotten off of a Celeron 500 I've been more than happy with the performance of my 2.6C at stock.)

And be very careful about Geil. They're notorious for being as good as they are bad as well as for 'accidentally' mislabelling parts or putting them in the wrong packaging. And as cool as the concept for their Golden Dragon line is (and as cool as it looks) I've heard of a lot of problems with it.

OCZ in general has been rather hit and miss too.

Corsair and Kingston are both names that I'd trust in general. But then you get to the whole DC PC3200+ on an 865/875 at low latencies thing. I don't think I've heard of <i>any</i> company coming out of that mess completely unscathed though.

Besides, thanks to good prediction and prefetching the P4s aren't as affected by latency as Athlons are. P4s are far more concerned with bandwidth. So aiming for super-low latencies on a P4 isn't so important anyway.

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
September 10, 2003 6:15:33 PM

My 2cents

Buy a 2.4c 800mhz bus cpu they hit 3.0 easy.
I had used Abit boards since the p4 came out and loved them.
Bought and had to RMA 2 875 chipset boards, then went Asus.

I would go with the Asus P4C-800 Deluxe more money but I have to say I love the board. Since you saved money getting a 2.4 spend it on the mobo.

The Rig
2.4c @ 3.0
OCZ pc3500
Asus P4C800-E
4 Maxtor 250gig serial ata drives
Enermax 465watt
Viewsonic 17" tft
ATI 9800Pro @ stock
September 10, 2003 6:43:05 PM

Quote:
Buy a 2.4c 800mhz bus cpu they hit 3.0 easy.

I have to agree if OCing is intended. Though the 2.6C is certainly no slouch either. :) 

Once you get to the 2.8C though OCing gets harder.

Quote:
I would go with the Asus P4C-800 Deluxe

Is there any significant difference between that and the P4P800 Deluxe?

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
September 10, 2003 8:06:06 PM

That was not me who said that. Wrong guy.
September 10, 2003 8:09:11 PM

2.4C and 2.6C both great Cpu for OCing. Love my IS7.
September 10, 2003 8:49:11 PM

The Low latency ram not effecting bandwith much is new for me...but does make sense...i though the p4 really like LL AND high bandwith ram...

And i did not say ALL corsair ram is not going to run...i am just observing that on these forums i have yet to hear of a hyper x module not working...but always seem to hear about the corsairs having problems with these chipsets...it baffels me as they use the same winbound chips (diffrent pcbs however)...but it is just my observation...corsair still is a fine company (intel is to blame for not releasing this as a ddr II chipset)

Geil and ocz...they are shaping up...and both have lifetime warantee so i dont see much of a risk.


Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
September 11, 2003 12:40:43 AM

HardwareBoss
i just got home from work and read the forum. Might take you up on that offer.
2 questions
1--- does the is7 have any problem with sound as i dont have a sound card.
2--- does it have pat ( think they call it turbo )
thank you , much appreciatted
also thanks to every one else, thinking about all the boards but the is7 is sooooo cheap, also seen where toms rated the msi pe neo2-fisher high , but dont know about overclock ability
September 11, 2003 3:55:50 AM

I'm using the onboard sound card. That comes with IS7. I bought IS7 for the price. Upgrading 1-1.5Yrs.
September 11, 2003 3:08:25 PM

Quote:
The Low latency ram not effecting bandwith much is new for me...but does make sense...i though the p4 really like LL AND high bandwith ram...

The research that I did anyway indicated strongly that the P4 isn't very concerned with latency timings. Bandwidth was much more of a concern. Sure, latency matters slightly, but not much and especially not compared to the cost associated with extreme low latency RAM.

And it makes sense when you think about it. The P4 is much better at prefetching, so the latency improvements of expensive RAM are hardly worth the money because most of the time the data is being requested before it's actually needed, thus negating the impact of latency. That explains why Intel was able to use Rambus memory so well. The latency involved with RDRAM was awful compared to DDR SDRAM, yet the P4s loved their RDRAM because of it's high bandwidth.

Which is totally opposite of AMD. Athlons don't prefetch as well so they spend more time waiting (and thus doing nothing) for the data to stream in from actual fetches. So any change in latency there can make a big impact.

But so many people had it stuck in their minds that latency was the end-all because of the Athlon benchmarks that proved it and because the Athlon benchmarks came first. Hardly anyone even thought to research if it affected the P4 differently than the Athlon. Everyone just assumed that it affected both systems the same.

But it doesn't. Which is why AMD gains so much by putting an ondie memory controller on an Athlon. It makes up for the bad prefetching. Where as Intel has very little to gain from an ondie memory controller because their prefetching makes it unnecessary. Not entirely useless, but certainly much less useful.

Quote:
And i did not say ALL corsair ram is not going to run...i am just observing that on these forums i have yet to hear of a hyper x module not working...but always seem to hear about the corsairs having problems with these chipsets...

In my research I haven't found a single low-latency memory manu that hasn't had problems with the 867/875, <i>especially</i> when PAT is enabled. Nor has any high latency memory been able to OC the timings any better. And the funny thing is that low latency settings without PAT seem to be better than the slightly higher timings with PAT, so go figure the usefulness there...

But the <i>biggest</i> amount of problems relating to Corsair were that their 3200LLs were targetted at the nForce2 chipset. Being Corsair, the SPD was naturally set to the lowest possible setting. The HyperX 3200s however weren't <i>quite</i> as tight with the timings, presumably because that meant more stability for customers with crappy mobos.

So when super-low latency from <i>any</i> vendor had a problem on the 865/875, who do you think had more complaints? The company with the SPD set more aggressively or the company with the SPD that had a bit more padding?

Corsair realized this problem and eventually changed the timings in the SPD of the 3200LLs. (Which is why for a good period of time there the advertised timings of the Corsair 3200LLs were so confusing. There were two different series of 3200LLs. One was from before the 865/875 when the nForce2 could handle the most aggressive timings ever, and one was from after the 865/875 with slightly looser timings.)

Corsair however recommended the 3500LL over the 3200LL because the SPD for the 3500LL was set to the same safer timings that the 3200LL was later changed too. Basically the 3500LL was Corsair's first memory actually targetted at the 865/875. The SPD-changed 3200LL that worked infinitely better on the 867/875 was only offered later.

And the 3200C2 however also worked just fine at SPD for the 865/875s because it's timings weren't as aggressive, even if it was also technically CAS2. It also uses the same memory modules as well. And it was a <i>lot</i> cheaper than the 3500LL. Which is why Corsair suggested the 3500LL, because it was the same chips but sold for a lot more, so they were making a lot more money off of a 3500LL sale than a 3200C2 sale. No one at Corsair actually admits this though. They'll claim something lame like "the 3500LL has more overclocking headroom" so it's better. Even though they suggested 3500LL to people running at stock. But this is why people like me went with and suggested the 3200C2, because it works great on the 865/875 and was an excellent lower-cost performance solution for people who weren't looking to OC.

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
September 11, 2003 7:25:38 PM

You just love to write :smile:

I agree with everything stated...

I guess i am no good at starting debates

Proud owner of DOS 3.3 :smile:
September 11, 2003 8:25:14 PM

Where does he get the time to write all that?
!