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Good Surround System + Outside Speakers

Last response: in Home Audio
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July 16, 2011 3:45:48 PM

I'm looking for a good new surround sound system (5.1, preferably). I'd like a few HDMI inputs/outputs. However, my main concern is that I have two speakers outside that I would like to run through the system too. Currently I have a two channel system, that can power two speakers inside and the two outside, and turn each set off or on independently. The main reason I want to get a new system is because these speakers are huge and old... I'm talking a couple decades old :p  If I could get a 5.1 system that could also have a separate stereo output for those outside speakers, that would be great! Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

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July 18, 2011 4:37:47 AM

it sounds to me as if you would need something with dual-zone capability , the receivers that offer dual zone carry a hefty price tag . my personal preference would be to re purpose the old receiver for running outside speakers and get a new 5.1 or 7.1 or what ever , but if you want an all in one package the people at crutchfield are good at helping you figure out what you want. i would go for yamaha myself . stay away from onkyo though, they aren't the company they once were , read reveiws on amazon if you want the details oh pioneer has some issue with the hdmi portion on a few of there models too
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July 22, 2011 3:33:56 AM

^+1 to this guy.

I agree onkyo used to be good, but have degraded, they are "Okay" but they are nothing more now. Yamaha is good however.

If you want your setup, I recommend getting a 7.1 amp, and then using the extra rear channels as your outside speakers of a different zone and use the standard 5.1 for your movies. Many amps do this and you can get them at a reasonable price.

Please though...please...don't get a crap brand, get a good brand, you'll regret it if you go to a crap brand.
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July 22, 2011 1:39:15 PM

I ended up going with a Pioneer amp and Sony speakers, unfortunately right before you guys responded :p  hopefully it isnt too bad...
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July 22, 2011 2:44:37 PM

Pioneer=Thumbs Up
Sony=Thumbs Down

However it all matters how it sounds to you, if it sounds good then don't worry about it.
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July 22, 2011 2:53:04 PM

Oh I thought Pioneer wasn't that great haha... And from what I've heard most of Sony's stuff isn't necessarily bad, just overpriced; the speakers I got were regularly $500 or so but on sale for $200, making them one of the cheaper options. I was more concerned with the quality of the amp. Unless Sony is even worse than I've heard?
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July 22, 2011 3:07:47 PM

Sony makes great TV's, great cameras and etc...however amps/speakers are really not their thing...they should leave it to audio companies for that.

And yes, pioneer makes great stuff, they used to make the best and highest end TV's around, like at the level of Mitsubishi , but they stopped. And they make really good receivers and amps, especially their elite series receivers are excellent.
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July 23, 2011 5:15:01 AM

of all sony's receivers that have the lowest distortion numbers..
what is wrong with them?

their parametric equalizer doesnt go low enough because your speakers are tuned for 40hz or 80hz ?
they dont have the big name auto calibration like mcacc or audyssey?
maybe their timing alignment still doesnt work?

i've never seen a sony amp that struggles or has problems except for the junk that you pretty much know is junk the moment you hear it.

my cousin has (or had) a sony tower system with 5.1 surround sound.
he got it back in the 1990's
that thing has lasted like 20 years.

i had a sony bookshelf system (a very expensive one from the 1990's)
i ran that amp like an idiot.
connecting all sorts of extra speakers.
probably ran the thing down to 2 ohm a bunch of times.
and even then.. the amp lasted for a few years.
but
that was after the fact that i had already been using it correctly for about 4 years.

i bet there are countless number of teenagers that have used a sony to hookup a speaker to each channel.. run a stereo signal in a virtual surround mode to get the back speakers working.. and then have a room full of speakers.

back then kids had a technics running stereo with a subwoofer.
or
a sony receiver with a 3-way speaker on each channel.. or even some subs in a bandpass box.


am i being a fanboy.. no, i am not trying to be.
but
i am quite tempted to be one.


when the days of crutchfield came out.. the vast majority of sony receivers all had high harmonic distortion.
but
they still carried a top-notch sound field assortment.
hard to compete with the digital cinema sound and how it can fill a soundstage.
absolutely nothing like the most generic 'jazz' or 'stadium' sound fields that were nothing more than 'how much echo do you want?'


people who were not wise enough to go grab a different receiver because the one they had sounded like trash.. they got what was coming to them.
it was companies like NAD and ADCOM that were trying to absorb all of the broken audio enthusiasts as they came crying and saying 'my receiver is junk'
and then they wouldnt get much of an improvement other than what is considered a standard today.. but with a huge price tag for getting the audio quality early.


if sony thinks they are going to pull themselves out of the home theater business, i will have to have a talk with them and light a fire up under their butt.
i havent heard any of their new speakers.. but they have never really been any good with their speakers.
most people already know.. it doesnt generally matter how long the speakers last, because 90% of them last.
and they all break when too much power is driven into them.



look at the biggest picture.
a 'brand name' is what they are because of their reputation.
but
an amplifier is what it is because of the parts used.
it will come down to a time when more than one brand name uses the same parts.
i am thinking that time is about now, and i really dont think it would be fair to start saying one brand name is better than another because of the audio quality.
the industry must have a low limit to push the industry onto people and promote it.
they have already made the effort to get people buying surround sound systems.
now there is nothing left to do but make them sound better and better.


it isnt fair to sony receivers to give them a bad name because of all the lower quality stuff they did about the time when crutchfield came out.
because sony was already there providing for people before the 2000 decade.
denon was there for people too.
pioneer wasnt.
onkyo wasnt.
marantz wasnt (though i see a few of their products showing up.. proving they did exist at the time)

sony has the money to spend on the receivers.. because they are involved in many things.
the sony movie industry.. the playstation industry.. their television industry.. the walkman and discman industry.
only now that people have a system 'setup' are they going out there to help improve the audio industry based on distortion and clarity.
lot of walkmans and discmans.. and a lot of sony bookshelf systems.


telling people to 'stay away' or otherwise tell them to look no further isnt the right way of doing it.
those pieces of advice are about 10 years too late.
if you fell victim to a problem within those 10 years.. you should have been paying attention to what you bought.
the same complaint happens here today.
people coming to the forum that are too lazy to read an operating manual.
people coming to the forum that cant figure out how to plug in a cord.
if you are that careless.. might as well not spend the money building something of high quality when you are not going to appreciate it.
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July 23, 2011 6:49:45 AM

^Distortion numbers?
You do realize your speakers and environment will produce distortion far far before your receiver will. And even then, sony's ratings are at 0.08% just like the other 99% of the market amps are. The only amps I can think of with a lower distortion are possibly goldmund amps which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Im not judging based on distortion numbers, there are plenty of other factors determining its quality and worthiness.

Just because you had good luck with a sony lasting long and well doesn't mean its good. I got my hands on a sony and realized what crap it was when I tried to power my towers with it...it tried so hard that I could hear it farting.

If a sony says it can output 100watts per channel...what they really mean is about 5-10watts...and I'm not kidding.
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July 23, 2011 8:49:09 AM

not kidding?
well now you are an idiot.

compare a 1% harmonic distortion with a 0.08% and if you cant hear the difference your speakers are not FCC approved.
or your hearing is remarkably bad.

a typical room causes sonic distortion.. not harmonic distortion.
and either one can be put to rest by actually using the room to an advantage.

to say what you did is hate speech, whether you realize it or not.


you said you arent using distortion to judge quality and worthiness.
i find that to be hypocritical because all of the sony receivers have quite the same features.
those that dont have the automatic calibration have the parametric equalizer.
and they all have the digital cinema sound.


any distortion the room causes does not over-power the existance in harmonic distortion.
when it is low, you can hear it.. doesnt matter if you are in a 10x12 room or a 100x200 warehouse.

you express you dont know of the difference.
i would highly suggest you get some better speakers.
junk can make it hard to tell.

these can help you tell the difference:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+Extra+Bass+Over-the-... xb500&cp=1&lp=1

and these can help you tell the difference too:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber...


your relativity about 5-10 watts is using the voltage from the wall.. not the voltage from the power supply inside of the amplifier.

since you dont have the voltage from the power supply inside the amp.. you are MISSING a variable in the equation.
you cant solve the 'watts = voltage x amperage' without knowing the voltage or amperage from the power supply.

my 100 watts per channel can provide enough bass from two twelve inch speakers that i can feel the bass on my chest and the hair on my arms.
the two speakers are connected to the front outputs on the receiver.


i think you are seriuosly missing out.. or you are simply bullying something that doesnt deserve it.
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July 23, 2011 3:32:19 PM

i would have to say that sony av equipment is crap well there av receivers and car stereo equipment . i used a friends sony receiver to power my speakers for a while after mine failed and i was waiting for my new receiver to show up, it was a step down from my rummage sale optimus receiver which i think was produced by pioneer at the time. funny thing is that my optimus was rated 70 wpc and the sony i am talking about was rated 100 wpc .my opinion is that sony is cheap consumer grade crap with a high price tag

playstation is still my preferred game system , very happy they kept same controller design.
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July 23, 2011 11:46:36 PM

i dont think ya'll are watching a brand name close enough.

when you see a company that is doing something besides one industry.. and you see there are problems with their current products.. why would you stop looking?
is it because you need something right then and there?
sure, if you dont have time to waste and there isnt anything available.. you gotta grab something.
but
that is not how coupon users go about with their spending habits.

white westinghouse tried to do the same thing.
whenever there was a product on the shelf that appeared to be junk.. if you went back EVER to look, the product would be different.

my mother realized the same thing.
if she went to the store looking at cleaning supplies.. if she knew the store didnt have anything that worked really good.. she would still look.
and sometimes the store would have some 'new product' that she brought home to try.
this lead to her finding something that finally worked.
and what a joy it must have been to be able to go to the store and pass up all those other products.. only to grab the one single product that had any worth.

not the same beast with audio receivers.
it cant be.
everything needs to work to get the consumers more involved with what they used to have and how better it can be.
the times of movies and video games with superb audio are among us.
no different than switching from a stereo speaker system to a surround speaker system... audio quality improvements are expected to impact the industry in the same way.
it really is supposed to work like glue or a spider web.
if you come into contact with it.. it is hard to leave.


and let us think about this..

how does the poor play with the same quality as the rich?
they trust a brand name to give more quality for a much lesser price.. and they hide it in the middle of all the other crap junk they have been selling.

when you look at one.. go back and look at another one and it is still the same crap, but a different season or year..
and you go back some more to find something 'new' that has different specifications that dont match the rest of what has usually been there..
chances are.. the company was saving money by building something junk.. and all of that money they saved up has gone towards the 'new' product you are looking at.

the world will never keep the mid-range products seperate from the high-range products.
sometimes the high-range product is junk, to save money and put the extra quality into the mid-range product.
that is how the poor laugh at the rich.
because the rich person goes in with an inflated ego and thinks 'you get what you pay for'
you cant go into a store with that mentality and expect to get the best product for your money.
one must learn why it is bad or why it is good.
seriously..
people with lots of extra money dont seem to care.
if it is much more expensive.. they think it is a key indication of quality.
sometimes the thing breaks real easy and the rich person gets all angry and tries to sue the company.
but
what they dont realize is what i already said above.
all the company has to reply to the judge with is 'there is a product we sell for half the price that is twice the quality.. simply because the buyer did not browse our products does not entitle them to sue'
and it breaks down to the company giving to the poor to mid-range class of folks who couldnt afford the higher price tag.

cant sell only the best of the best to the rich for your whole life.. that is inhumane treatment.
sometimes people refuse to take a higher paying job because they are more happy with their lower paying job.
and to punish them for that is unjustified.

back in the 1990's
there were lots of generic brand names that would come out with a 'bang for your buck' product that could rival a much higher price tag in a side by side comparison.

you have to be an active and conscious shopper to find these hidden gems.
and like i said.. they used to hide the quality in the generic brand names.
i dont know how they plan on doing it today or in the future.

allowing people to talk bad about a brand name time and time again.. only to then be releasing something of much better quality than what they are talking about..
it would be up to the person to BE THEMSELVES and stop listening to crumb advice.


long forum replies full of information are quite difficult to do when there is no real truth to what they are saying.
that is why i tease all of the short replies.

more people showing pictures of what is wrong..
and
more people showing pictures of what is right..
should lead to a boost in the economic metabolism of the readers.

this already happens basically.
people put up articles with pictures.
but
there is no chance to reply to the person or ask questions.
and that is how you know you are being mistreated or lied to when you cant take the information in the article and learn something from it.


the whole I FOUND A GOOD ONE
is what many people come to this forum asking about.
the lazyness from those people who dont get out there and do it themselves.
they come here and ask 'what is the best _____ for $100'
that gives people who work from home a chance to steer them in the wrong direction.
or
the person working from home downright lies to them and says nothing is available.


it isnt uncommon for a company to take your money for being stupid.
i think it is more often allowed when a company does it.. compared to a small business or single individual to do it.
because the small business or single individual is putting that money into their pocket, instead of taking that extra money and giving it back to the customers.

that is called 'judgement evasion'
because many people are not using their own judgement.

**edit**

it might seem harsh to you..
but
it was harsh for me also.

the only time i can think of when people would not run out and buy something from the first store they went to is for CRT televisions.
and
we have to thank best buy and circuit city for bringing the style of shopping back to us.
people would try both stores.. and any smaller locally owned stores.. before they made a decision.
the real picky people would wait if there wasnt anything for sale that they wanted.

i would like to believe people are now doing this with new vehicles.
they see what is out there available.. and if it 'doesnt hit the spot'
they wait and see what comes out next year, or three years down the road.

if you were happy with your old purchase.. you should be able to hold onto it while you are waiting for something new that 'hits the spot'
and
if you were happy with your old purchase when you first got it.. and now you absolutely hate it.. you should really consider your methods of choosing what you buy, so you dont make the same mistake again.
that means learning what you hate about the purchase and try your best to avoid those things with the new product.



it does suprise me to hear the sony sounded worse than the optimus receiver.
but
i would be a hypocrite to say optimus never ever made a good receiver.
and i know first-hand.. sony make a bunch of receivers that would output mp3 audio quality.

people do get confused and careless.
simply look at the millions of people who use mp3's for their music..!
some are better than others..
but
many of these people dont have speakers that easily reveal the differences.
and
some people say to themselves 'if everybody else is doing it.. it cant be that bad'

i have heard it myself..!
i go from an mp3 version to my retail CD and the difference isnt big enough.
just start comparing the lower sample rates with the higher sample rates and you will see some improvement.

you could do this already if you dont feel like waiting.
go to youtube and find any music video that allows you to switch from 480p to 720p
because the difference between 320p and 480p is too easy.
the 480p to 720p is much more realistic and better for practice.
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July 23, 2011 11:57:34 PM

*ahem* I think we are getting a bit off topic...
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July 23, 2011 11:57:56 PM

Best answer selected by rjkucia.
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July 24, 2011 1:16:32 AM

i find it hard to be off topic when the answer has already been posted.

nothing to change except the difference between 'multi-room' and 'dual-zone'

multi-room doesnt mean the amp will play both rooms at the same time.
and
the 2nd room might actually be preamp outputs, not amplified outputs.

dual-zone is basically another amplifier inside the receiver.. and that is what brings the price tag up.
but
smaller things, like the ability to play the same audio in both rooms.. or the ability to choose a different source for each room.
these features are subjective to what you need and want.


it will boil down to whether you want to play the same audio source both inside and outside.. or if you want the ability to play seperate sources.

you might get by with one of the 'multi-room' choices if the receiver lets you choose a seperate source for the other room.
although that might be 'dual-zone'
it doesnt necessarily mean there isnt a 'dual-zone' feature, but with preamp outputs that require an amp.
you said you already have an amp that could be used for the outside speakers.

finding an amp with the 'multi-room' and seperate source for each room, but with preamp outputs.. that could save you some money.

i would expect the savings to be $200 - $400 area.


**edit**

just read the operation manual online to see if you can select a different source for the other room.
that way you dont get stuck with the same thing you have now.
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July 24, 2011 3:17:38 AM

anwaypasible said:
not kidding?
well now you are an idiot.

compare a 1% harmonic distortion with a 0.08% and if you cant hear the difference your speakers are not FCC approved.
or your hearing is remarkably bad.

a typical room causes sonic distortion.. not harmonic distortion.
and either one can be put to rest by actually using the room to an advantage.

to say what you did is hate speech, whether you realize it or not.


you said you arent using distortion to judge quality and worthiness.
i find that to be hypocritical because all of the sony receivers have quite the same features.
those that dont have the automatic calibration have the parametric equalizer.
and they all have the digital cinema sound.


any distortion the room causes does not over-power the existance in harmonic distortion.
when it is low, you can hear it.. doesnt matter if you are in a 10x12 room or a 100x200 warehouse.

you express you dont know of the difference.
i would highly suggest you get some better speakers.
junk can make it hard to tell.

these can help you tell the difference:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+Extra+Bass+Over-the-... xb500&cp=1&lp=1

and these can help you tell the difference too:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber...


your relativity about 5-10 watts is using the voltage from the wall.. not the voltage from the power supply inside of the amplifier.

since you dont have the voltage from the power supply inside the amp.. you are MISSING a variable in the equation.
you cant solve the 'watts = voltage x amperage' without knowing the voltage or amperage from the power supply.

my 100 watts per channel can provide enough bass from two twelve inch speakers that i can feel the bass on my chest and the hair on my arms.
the two speakers are connected to the front outputs on the receiver.


i think you are seriuosly missing out.. or you are simply bullying something that doesnt deserve it.


Quote:

not kidding?
well now you are an idiot.


First off, lets get something straight here, have I ever disrespected you?...didn't think so, I never insulted you. So why the need for insults? If you think I'm wrong (Even though I'm about disprove you), please retaliate with a respectful post, we are both trying to help people on the forum and both have knowledge so I'd appreciate if you were a bit more respectful. And as you can see, I'm not even retaliating with insults.

Apology accepted...I forgive you. :) 

Quote:

o say what you did is hate speech, whether you realize it or not.


Actually...whether I realize or not isn't important, nowhere did I use hate speech.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hate+Speech

Dictionary.com begs to disagree with you. I put down (not even attacked) a group (sony) based on thier amps...not thier race, religion, sexual orientation or gender. Unless ofcourse you can find a correlation of amplifiers to race/religion/sexualorientation/and gender. Perhaps you taking about male and female adapters and converters LOL (Just kidding).

Listen dude, I appreciate your help to me and to other people, and I accept that you seem to know a lot about electronics and audio. However lets examine some facts here.

I made a bold statement (Sony Receivers are Bad mostly). I didn't say all, but most of them are. And I'll back my statement up with facts...

Lets take a look at sony's most expensive receiver:

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product...

This receiver claims to output 770watts of power. 770 ÷ 7 = 110

So basically, this receiver *Claims* to output 110 watts per channel.

Now listen, I couldn't find, maybe I missed it, but I couldn't find the specifications for this amplifiers frequency range (most likley 20hz-20,000hz, but lets me tell you something.

If you can make this amp deliver 110watts of power at at any frequency of 70hz or below (where most bass is) without melting into the liquid state of whatever material it is made of...then...buddy...you can give me your paypal account cause I will transfer 1000bucks to you. Infact, if you can even make that receiver deliver half of its rating...just 55watts at 50hz...ill still give you 1000bucks. I'll even answer this for ya, you won't even be able to get close, the amp won't even be able to melt, because it probably has safety system that will shut it down anyway.

If you think that sony can output its rated power at low-frequencies, than companies that make real-amps...not *** like sony, which cost 10x as much would all be out of business, because people who need real amps...not toys...would buy from sony. However people who use real amps for some reason buy expensive high end equipment such as denon, marantz, harmon kardon, and personal favorite...McIntosh...because those amps can actually power A FRIGGEN SPEAKER THAT IS LARGER THEN A SHOE!
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July 24, 2011 5:33:29 AM

blackhawk1928 said:
Quote:

First off, lets get something straight here, have I ever disrespected you?...didn't think so, I never insulted you. So why the need for insults? If you think I'm wrong (Even though I'm about disprove you), please retaliate with a respectful post, we are both trying to help people on the forum and both have knowledge so I'd appreciate if you were a bit more respectful. And as you can see, I'm not even retaliating with insults.

Apology accepted...I forgive you. :) 
Quote:


have you disrespected or insulted me..
quite frankly, yes you have.
to say that i have repeated myself numerous times with advice that contradicts what you are saying, while i have the facts here in front of me.. that is the abuse, and it is the hate speech.

blackhawk1928 said:
Quote:

Actually...whether I realize or not isn't important, nowhere did I use hate speech.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hate+Speech

Dictionary.com begs to disagree with you. I put down (not even attacked) a group (sony) based on thier amps...not thier race, religion, sexual orientation or gender. Unless ofcourse you can find a correlation of amplifiers to race/religion/sexualorientation/and gender. Perhaps you taking about male and female adapters and converters LOL (Just kidding).

Listen dude, I appreciate your help to me and to other people, and I accept that you seem to know a lot about electronics and audio. However lets examine some facts here.

I made a bold statement (Sony Receivers are Bad mostly). I didn't say all, but most of them are. And I'll back my statement up with facts...

Quote:



you dont need to be mistaken.
the whole 'sony is bad' is not what i couldnt handle.
it was when you said the harmonic distortion cannot be heard.
since you purposefully ignored my point.. you continue on your rant on an abusive route.

you spread a lie.
and i cannot sit back and allow you to continue with those lies.
all of the terms of how you chose to respond to me are none of which i care.

the important part is that you said yourself that you dont care to realize the error of your mistake, and that you continue to whine and pout about the power output of the sony receiver - despite my efforts to inform you and others otherwise.

not only are you trying to prove my time wasteful..
you are also trying to alter my character and reputation.
i wont stand for the nonsense when it can easily be proven without my demonstration.

dont try to change the fact that i have 150 watt RMS woofers connected to a 100 watt amplifier.
these speakers can rattle a loose window with the sony receiver.
no need to pout and cry about your attempt being different, BECAUSE i told you and others how to evade such a problem.
you have to use an equalizer at the preamp level that connects between the source and the receiver.
this could be a soundcard.. because many people have soundcards, especially if you are on a computer in my presence.

using the equalizer on the receiver will not go deep enough or loud enough.. even with the bass at +10
but if you leave it at +10 and use an outside equalizer.. the bass will go up without complaint.
you cant expect the amplifier to naturally boost the bass.
it isnt natural of the pieces that are used and connected together to create the amplifier.

and to tell me you cant hear the difference between one harmonic distortion and the other.. that doesnt make your situation factual or evidence.
my receiver has different harmonic distortion percentages for stereo and surround sound.
the moment i put the system into surround sound.. i can hear the difference.
and the change is 0.09% to 0.7%
the gap is smaller than the 0.08% to 1% that i previously mentioned.


hate speech is, outside the law, any communication that disparages a person or a group on the basis of some characteristic.

the person is ME.. not sony.
how did you disparage me?

disparage:
1. To speak of in a slighting or disrespectful way; belittle.
2. To reduce in esteem or rank.

i have said, time and time again, the facts that you are here trying to conflict with.
and then you say you dont care if you realize those facts or not.

there is no sympathy for you.
however, i will not lie to myself and pretend as if i dont see how your words are disrespectful and/or insulting.

you seem to think i care about what you say about sony.
and that is not something i cannot handle with a simple reply.
but
i cannot allow you to spread harmful information about the harmonic distortion numbers.
that is all people have when it comes to looking for a receiver and viewing the specifications on paper.
here you are trying to take that information away.

by ethics, hate speech is ANY speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display.
by etiquette, hate speech is found by disparage or intimidation with any of the above methods used.


fantastic job embarassing yourself with the whole 'did i disrespect you or insult you? no!' remark.

you even claim to not know your reply is withholding, bullying, defaming, trivializing, harassing, blocking, insulting, countering, diverting, lying, berating, taunting, and yelling.

you said.. 'why the need for insults'
and to that i say..
obviously my previous efforts are of no use to you, because those efforts contain the answers i have repeated.
i was kind enough to provide you some products that could help you better your view on the matter we are discussing.
but instead of trying for truth, you chose to yell at me and complain.



it just might prove these are the last things i have to say to you:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g95/anwaypasible/nove...
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g95/anwaypasible/nove...
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g95/anwaypasible/nove...


**edit**

you do need to realize those high-end companies have increased slew rates and lower abilities to recreate AIR in the sound.
you also need to realize those companies dont sell products very often.
they mark up the price high enough to keep their advertisements and websites running, and if somebody puts in an order.. the amp is either sent out because it is still fresh, or a new one is built.
these companies are not respectful.
they hold close to bankruptcy and are blessed with any money made under a different company (and possibly a completely different industry)

people can spend $1,000 - $2,000 and build an amplifier themselves that would carry a price tag of something close to $10,000
see.. they are selling the amps for about 10x more than they cost to build.
they are not all that better.
they include what the consumer-level amps dont include.. and they generally take out much of what makes the consumer-level amps good.

slew rate and harmonic distortion has been seperated for more than two decades.
you get one or the other.
it would be about time the slew rate comes together with the harmonic distortion.
and it would also be about friggin time the new playstation and xbox are released.

my onboard soundcard has better slew rate than the x-fi elite pro.
but
the x-fi elite pro has a harmonic distortion much lower than the onboard soundcard could ever dream of.
the soundcard has Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise at 1kHz (20kHz Low-pass filter) = 0.0008%
but the slew rate is not allowing the audio to be released from the amp circuit.

those super expensive amps are popular because the audio details pour out of the amps like a bucket pouring out water.
that doesnt mean their signal to noise ratio is higher.. you will pay more for that.
and it doesnt mean their harmonic distortion is lower.. you couldnt pay for that if you tried.

i dont think there are any toys.. different styles for different tastes.
and
if your taste is not in the lower priced category, you'll be forced to pay more.

i dont see your logic as justified.
everything isnt going to fall onto your lap already calibrated and perfected.
that is the single thing they are charging the most amount of money for.

i remember i had a kicker 600 watt amplifier that was decent.
then i hooked up an epicenter to the thing and it drove the input voltage from 2 volts up to 7 volts.
that amp went NUTS with three or four times more output.
my poor subwoofers couldnt do anything but slap slap slap or sound about the same.
i wouldnt be surpised if some of the receivers could benefit from a line-driver on the preamp inputs.
maybe the amplifier didnt actually put out what it was claiming.. but did you try to increase the input voltage to raise the output?
maybe then the wattage would be real.. and maybe it would have been stable with no harm of breaking.

to put those facts back out there..
simply because the amplifer specifications says 100 watts per channel.
that doesnt mean the amp is going to put out 100 watts when you plug it in, connect your speakers, and turn it on.
it should mean the amplifier will be stable when you overdrive the preamp inputs with higher voltage.



i see you are mad..
but
based on your decisive actions, i cannot assume human error was not at fault.
line-drivers exist.. and if you didnt use one = human error.
if you did use one, you should have used it with a limiter to make certain you didnt go over the limit.


i have shared a lot more than my time with this forum.
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July 25, 2011 2:54:14 AM

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have you disrespected or insulted me..
quite frankly, yes you have.
to say that i have repeated myself numerous times with advice that contradicts what you are saying, while i have the facts here in front of me.. that is the abuse, and it is the hate speech.


Once again...just because I respectfully disagree doesn't mean I am disrespecting you.

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you dont need to be mistaken.
the whole 'sony is bad' is not what i couldnt handle.
it was when you said the harmonic distortion cannot be heard.
since you purposefully ignored my point.. you continue on your rant on an abusive route.


I never said distortion numbers do not matter. I simply said you will hear distortion of your environment will be heard often times before your amplifiers distortion up to a certain point. Depending on the quality of your equipment, source and amplifier, sometimes amplifier distortion differences will make a huge impact on sound-quality while other times it wont't. IF you have bad speakers and a bad source, the distortion on the amp will not bottleneck you anyway.

My apologies if I stated my post wrong, they do matter so long as THD IS your bottleneck meaning speakers are good and source is good.

However you Lied when you said that "it was when you said the harmonic distortion cannot be heard."

Once again...apology accepted...? Yes...

Quote:

not only are you trying to prove my time wasteful..
you are also trying to alter my character and reputation.
i wont stand for the nonsense when it can easily be proven without my demonstration.


Man...if you read your posts and mine, you are disrespectful and ignorant...I'm not trying to alter your reputation and MAYBE if you didn't write full fledged essays for a point that can be expressed in a paragraph you wouldn't be wasting your time...

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dont try to change the fact that i have 150 watt RMS woofers connected to a 100 watt amplifier.
these speakers can rattle a loose window with the sony receiver.
no need to pout and cry about your attempt being different, BECAUSE i told you and others how to evade such a problem.
you have to use an equalizer at the preamp level that connects between the source and the receiver.
this could be a soundcard.. because many people have soundcards, especially if you are on a computer in my presence.


I'm not trying to change the fact of your sony receiver...however don't try to change mine. I've tried multiple sony receivers and they simply can't stand up to their ratings, and I did controlled experiments with it. I don't care about your 150watt woofers running on a 100watt amp...are they distorted?...how do you know? And you don't need to supply 100watts to a woofer for it to rattle a window out. It depends on the woofers sensitivity/efficiency. You might be actually supplying only 20watts to your woofer when its rattling. Also, are you playing on full volume? You need to know your measurements such as the power going to your woofers before argueing your point.

Quote:

hate speech is, outside the law, any communication that disparages a person or a group on the basis of some characteristic.

the person is ME.. not sony.
how did you disparage me?

disparage:
1. To speak of in a slighting or disrespectful way; belittle.
2. To reduce in esteem or rank.


ONce again, learn the definition of hate speech, I said no hate speech and I didn't disparage anybody. If anybody is disparaging anyone, its you. Now you're being a prick.

Quote:

however, i will not lie to myself and pretend as if i dont see how your words are disrespectful and/or insulting.


You are just being a drama queen with a big ego and oversensitive. Calm down :) 

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you chose to yell at me and complain.


I didn't yell or complain...not to mention that text can't yell...you're just hilarious.

Quote:

i see you are mad..


Yeah sure...im just fuming in flames on my computer...
You are the one ranting lol
Get a life
Also good job as starting a forum fight...Mr. Instigator...starting with your insults. I tried my best being respectful to you and still have not insulted you (maybe I have NOW, because of retaliation, but I didn't start it)...but you persist...

I still have respect for you, but you really pushing it. I don't even know why I'm being nice to ya, perhaps because you are helpful and knowledgeable, but you've shown a bad side of yourself...please hide it :) 

I'm hoping a moderator can lock this please.
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July 25, 2011 10:19:31 AM

you are speaking from a timing that is one step too late.
could be a chemical imbalance of you.
or
perhaps it is your imagination and creativity that has brought you down this road.
i cannot say you didnt choose what you chose.
and for that, is trouble.

you express yourself as very young.
dont think i will treat you innocently.. unless maybe if you are 6 or 7 years old.

i hope you get some counseling, but i will not be the one to provide that for you.
i'm putting you on my ignore list now, so please dont bother yourself (or myself) trying to communicate with me.
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July 25, 2011 5:00:12 PM

This topic has been closed by Tecmo34
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