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Bob Roberts Williams Lithium Battery Replacment.

Last response: in Video Games
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Anonymous
July 21, 2005 1:44:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

geez...stuff like this makes you think you're not cut out for working
on pins. :( 

I just installed 2 of the "hacks" on a TM BOP and a BK2K. Neither
Work.

My batteries died recently and I had seen the replacment fix on
therealbobroberts.com and figured..well every 5+ years is better than
every year, so..I tried it. twice.

Neither works. both games power up and still work fine. Nothing has
exploded. but neither saves settings after being powered off and
coming back up. I followed the directions very closely both times.

I have a couple questions I guess. Did I do something wrong that I
pull 3.3ish volts when replacing 4.5 in AA batteries? Is there
anything I can test to verify that this is at least TRYING to work the
way it should?

Thanks in advance.

Allroy (the dumb)
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 3:02:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

In the last 10 years or so I have had several boards come into the shop
with lithium batteries attached. Not the button type, but the
cylindrical type that is very similar to the white Ni-cad. A few had
the blocking diode reversed, which is bad.

Double check your work as this proceedure should function.

Mario
Pinthetic
Related resources
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 3:08:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

What is shown in the pictures looks like
a video game board. WPC games have a much
different design, and uses the battery for
more than memory retention. I'd suggest you
contact the person that engineered this conversion
to see how it suits your application(s).

Lithium batteries are dangerous when installed
improperly. If the installation tries to "charge"
them, and especially when a large one is installed,
there is a greater risk of fire. (They can explode.)

Just because someone else has done something doesn't
always mean it is safe to do so, either....!

Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
=========

Allroy1975_@_yahoo.com wrote:
> See www.therealbobroberts.com Williams Battery Conversion:
> http://www.homearcade.org/BBBB/wmsbatt.html
>
> That's what I've done. I've looked around on the group and people kept
> suggesting it. It can't be too dangerous.
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 3:21:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I have no idea what you have done, but the only
games I know of with lithium batteries are GTB
system 3 games and Pinball 2000 games.

Dangerous to use in anything else.

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************






"Allroy1975_@_yahoo.com" <mathewtdavis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1121921078.071522.69870@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> geez...stuff like this makes you think you're not cut out for working
> on pins. :( 
>
> I just installed 2 of the "hacks" on a TM BOP and a BK2K. Neither
> Work.
>
> My batteries died recently and I had seen the replacment fix on
> therealbobroberts.com and figured..well every 5+ years is better than
> every year, so..I tried it. twice.
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 7:01:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It's not like some bonehead did it. It's freakin Bob Roberts! He
states all these things, how cautious he was when first installing it.
how if done wrong it can explode.

Mario, I'll double check my work (again ;) 

where is the power supposed to go? like is there a chip I can check to
see if it's getting the power? I guess it'd be different on each
board. I have schematics for the BOP but not the BK2K. Guess I should
buy a manual for that one too.

Thanks
Allroy
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 7:10:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Makes no difference. I have no idea who Bob Roberts
is, nor am I trying to discredit him in any way. If
it works for him, again, maybe you should contact him.

It can explode or catch fire if the blocking diode has
a problem, still...

Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
==============================

Allroy1975_@_yahoo.com wrote:
> It's not like some bonehead did it. It's freakin Bob Roberts! He
> states all these things, how cautious he was when first installing it.
> how if done wrong it can explode.
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 9:46:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Fred Kemper wrote:
> Makes no difference. I have no idea who Bob Roberts
> is, nor am I trying to discredit him in any way. If
> it works for him, again, maybe you should contact him.

Glad I'm not the only one who has absolutely no idea who he is!

Looks like that would be OK for a sys-7 or earlier type board. sys9
and 11 would be debateable in my mind (less in common with the vid
boards), while WPC would definitely be out as they have a much higher
draw when off.
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 9:49:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Allroy1975_@_yahoo.com wrote:
> geez...stuff like this makes you think you're not cut out for working
> on pins. :( 
>
> I just installed 2 of the "hacks" on a TM BOP and a BK2K. Neither
> Work.
>
> My batteries died recently and I had seen the replacment fix on
> therealbobroberts.com and figured..well every 5+ years is better than
> every year, so..I tried it. twice.
>
> Neither works. both games power up and still work fine. Nothing has
> exploded. but neither saves settings after being powered off and
> coming back up. I followed the directions very closely both times.
>
> I have a couple questions I guess. Did I do something wrong that I
> pull 3.3ish volts when replacing 4.5 in AA batteries? Is there
> anything I can test to verify that this is at least TRYING to work the
> way it should?

Well, no... You're typically going to have about a .6V voltage drop
across a common 1N4xxx diode.

So if you start with a 3.3V lithium battery, and chop .6V off of it,
then you're only feeding in 2.7V. That's a far cry from the +5V that
most logic chips want for +Vcc, which would explain why they're not
holding settings.
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 1:22:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

TheKorn@TheKorn.net wrote:
> Allroy1975_@_yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>geez...stuff like this makes you think you're not cut out for working
>>on pins. :( 
>>
>>I just installed 2 of the "hacks" on a TM BOP and a BK2K. Neither
>>Work.
>>
>>My batteries died recently and I had seen the replacment fix on
>>therealbobroberts.com and figured..well every 5+ years is better than
>>every year, so..I tried it. twice.
>>
>>Neither works. both games power up and still work fine. Nothing has
>>exploded. but neither saves settings after being powered off and
>>coming back up. I followed the directions very closely both times.
>>
>>I have a couple questions I guess. Did I do something wrong that I
>>pull 3.3ish volts when replacing 4.5 in AA batteries? Is there
>>anything I can test to verify that this is at least TRYING to work the
>>way it should?
>
>
> Well, no... You're typically going to have about a .6V voltage drop
> across a common 1N4xxx diode.
>
> So if you start with a 3.3V lithium battery, and chop .6V off of it,
> then you're only feeding in 2.7V. That's a far cry from the +5V that
> most logic chips want for +Vcc, which would explain why they're not
> holding settings.
>

Actually, Static RAM doesn't require Vcc levels when in standby (under
battery back-up). Typically, a 6264 SRAM will retain memory down to +2v
with the current draw running in microamps from the battery. A 3.3v
lithium will have no problem retaining memory for any Williams system up
until WPC. WPC CPU boards draw more current because the ASIC is CMOS
(along with the SRAM) and the real time clock and clock timing logic
needs to run off the battery.

Typically, I would use a 3.6v lithium and low power schottky diode which
has a forward voltage drop of 0.2-0.3v to deliver to the standby voltage.

I haven't been following this thread but if the memory is not being
retained with 2.7v at the SRAM, then the memory is likely faulty.


Clive
---
Board repairs, EPROMs, servicing...

The Coin-Op Cauldron
405 Wild Wing Way
Easley, SC 29642
(864)238-1707
http://www.coinopcauldron.com
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 3:12:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Allroy1975_@_yahoo.com <mathewtdavis@gmail.com> wrote:
: geez...stuff like this makes you think you're not cut out for working
: on pins. :( 
:
: I just installed 2 of the "hacks" on a TM BOP and a BK2K. Neither
: Work.

That battery replacement is for williams video games, not pinball machines.

--
Mark Spaeth mspaeth@mtl.mit.edu
50 Vassar St., #38.265 mspaeth@mit.edu
Cambridge, MA 02139
(617) 452-2354 http://rgvac.978.org/~mspaeth
!