JP owners: Cliffy needs your help!

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi, all.

I'm working with Cliffy to create hole protectors for JP. The samples
he has sent me are getting very close! There remains one issue, which
I hope the group can help with.

There are two scoops on the middle left of the playfield on JP. They
are called the Control Room and the Bunker. Under the playfield, these
two scoops are connected, so that if the pinball goes in the Control
Room scoop (right side), it rolls left, and is ejected from the Bunker
scoop (left side). These two holes get the most damage on the game,
due to their close proximity to the flippers.

When I test fitted the Bunker protector, I was surprised to find that
the pinball won't fit down the hole! At first, Cliffy and I thought
that my scoop had been damaged, and bent down. This turns out not to
be the case, as it looks like the scoops are designed at two different
heights.

After looking at the problem further, I found that the problem wasn't
the height of the scoop, but rather how the Bunker scoop is mounted in
the hole. At least on my game, the Bunker scoop is mounted such that
the metal of the scoop isn't touching the back of the hole. The entire
assembly is rotated slightly, so that the entire two scoop assembly is
mounted at a slight angle from what the holes would suggest.

....After that long-winded explaination, if you're still with me, I'd
like a few JP owners to check two things for me (and Cliffy), and post
your results here:

1) Is there a slight difference in the height of your two scoops? It
looks like the Bunker scoop is about a 1/16th of an inch shorter than
the Control Room on mine.

2) If you look close, is the entire assembly mounted at an angle to
the holes? Is the Bunker scoop correctly pushed all the way back in
it's hole, or like mine is it mounted slightly forward?

It's somewhat trivial to remove the assembly (3 wood screws), patch the
existing wood screw holes, and re-mount the assembly in the correct
spot for me, but if ALL JPs have the same problem, it might affect the
viability of completing the project. (I hope it's just mine!)

Thanks,

Gerry Manis
15 answers Last reply
More about owners cliffy help
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Hi there
    1. Yes
    2. It's mounted forward.
    Kind regards from Switzerland
    Swisssstephan
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Gery, I'll take a look at this tonight. 90% sure that mine is just
    like you describe yours, though.

    JP *needs* these protectors.

    Cliffy, make the PF overlap extra wide, mines got 1/2" damage on the
    right hand side of the holes!
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I had alot of trouble with my protectors also on this game. You're probably
    going to have to bend the scoop up somewhat . . . to make room . . .


    --
    Kerry Stair

    Mantis Amusements "Its all about Pinball"


    "Gerry Manis" <gerrymanis@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1121964379.410404.209570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > Hi, all.
    >
    > I'm working with Cliffy to create hole protectors for JP. The samples
    > he has sent me are getting very close! There remains one issue, which
    > I hope the group can help with.
    >
    > There are two scoops on the middle left of the playfield on JP. They
    > are called the Control Room and the Bunker. Under the playfield, these
    > two scoops are connected, so that if the pinball goes in the Control
    > Room scoop (right side), it rolls left, and is ejected from the Bunker
    > scoop (left side). These two holes get the most damage on the game,
    > due to their close proximity to the flippers.
    >
    > When I test fitted the Bunker protector, I was surprised to find that
    > the pinball won't fit down the hole! At first, Cliffy and I thought
    > that my scoop had been damaged, and bent down. This turns out not to
    > be the case, as it looks like the scoops are designed at two different
    > heights.
    >
    > After looking at the problem further, I found that the problem wasn't
    > the height of the scoop, but rather how the Bunker scoop is mounted in
    > the hole. At least on my game, the Bunker scoop is mounted such that
    > the metal of the scoop isn't touching the back of the hole. The entire
    > assembly is rotated slightly, so that the entire two scoop assembly is
    > mounted at a slight angle from what the holes would suggest.
    >
    > ...After that long-winded explaination, if you're still with me, I'd
    > like a few JP owners to check two things for me (and Cliffy), and post
    > your results here:
    >
    > 1) Is there a slight difference in the height of your two scoops? It
    > looks like the Bunker scoop is about a 1/16th of an inch shorter than
    > the Control Room on mine.
    >
    > 2) If you look close, is the entire assembly mounted at an angle to
    > the holes? Is the Bunker scoop correctly pushed all the way back in
    > it's hole, or like mine is it mounted slightly forward?
    >
    > It's somewhat trivial to remove the assembly (3 wood screws), patch the
    > existing wood screw holes, and re-mount the assembly in the correct
    > spot for me, but if ALL JPs have the same problem, it might affect the
    > viability of completing the project. (I hope it's just mine!)
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Gerry Manis
    >
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Yes on both acccounts: it is shorter (i think it is more than 1/16"),
    and it is mounted forward

    Bill Dritz wrote:
    > Gery, I'll take a look at this tonight. 90% sure that mine is just
    > like you describe yours, though.
    >
    > JP *needs* these protectors.
    >
    > Cliffy, make the PF overlap extra wide, mines got 1/2" damage on the
    > right hand side of the holes!
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Yeah mine are the same.
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Mine's mounted straight, but slightly forward from the wood holes. The
    bunker has the scoop with the reinforced side, the control room is just
    a scoop and it eventually gets bent back over time. I believe after 11
    years owning this game that the control room was intended and actually
    was the same height as the bunker at manufacture.
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    That's a good point, about the control room scoop perhaps bending up
    over time...

    Thanks to all that have replied. It sounds like for most of us, the
    scoop will need to be relocated in order for the Cliffy style
    protectors to be used. One last question to the group:

    Would you be willing to:

    1) Remove the scoop from the bottom of your playfield (held in by 3
    wood screws),
    2) Fill in the middle and left screw holes (as you face the tilted-up
    playfield),
    3) Temporarily re-install the scoop, with just the right screw, and
    rotate the scoop back as far as it can go in the Bunker hole,
    4) Mark the location where the other two screw holes should go,
    5) Remove the scoop again,
    6) CAREFULLY drill pilot holes (don't go through the top!) where your
    two marks are, and
    7) Re-install the scoop, one last time, in the new location,

    ....if it meant getting Cliffy-style protectors for this machine? I'd
    gladly do it to my machine, but I don't think Cliffy is going to be
    sold on finishing this project on just my word ;)

    Thanks again,

    Gerry Manis.
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Gerry I'd rather see folks willing to bend the scoop upwards a tad
    rather than have them move the scoops back. I think DE designed the
    scoops position for a reason and I would hate to disturb that.
    Bendingthe scoop up would be minimal as my protectors are only .23"
    thick. Yes, only 23 thousandths of an inch. You could it up that much
    and not even notice it.

    Gerry Manis wrote:
    > That's a good point, about the control room scoop perhaps bending up
    > over time...
    >
    > Thanks to all that have replied. It sounds like for most of us, the
    > scoop will need to be relocated in order for the Cliffy style
    > protectors to be used. One last question to the group:
    >
    > Would you be willing to:
    >
    > 1) Remove the scoop from the bottom of your playfield (held in by 3
    > wood screws),
    > 2) Fill in the middle and left screw holes (as you face the tilted-up
    > playfield),
    > 3) Temporarily re-install the scoop, with just the right screw, and
    > rotate the scoop back as far as it can go in the Bunker hole,
    > 4) Mark the location where the other two screw holes should go,
    > 5) Remove the scoop again,
    > 6) CAREFULLY drill pilot holes (don't go through the top!) where your
    > two marks are, and
    > 7) Re-install the scoop, one last time, in the new location,
    >
    > ...if it meant getting Cliffy-style protectors for this machine? I'd
    > gladly do it to my machine, but I don't think Cliffy is going to be
    > sold on finishing this project on just my word ;)
    >
    > Thanks again,
    >
    > Gerry Manis.
    >

    --
    Cliffy - CARGPB2
    A passion for pinball!
    http://www.passionforpinball.com
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    re-mounting a scoop assy shouldn't be a problem. i am not completely
    sold on 1/2" protectors, might be too much, not going to look right.

    Gerry Manis wrote:
    > That's a good point, about the control room scoop perhaps bending up
    > over time...
    >
    > Thanks to all that have replied. It sounds like for most of us, the
    > scoop will need to be relocated in order for the Cliffy style
    > protectors to be used. One last question to the group:
    >
    > Would you be willing to:
    >
    > 1) Remove the scoop from the bottom of your playfield (held in by 3
    > wood screws),
    > 2) Fill in the middle and left screw holes (as you face the tilted-up
    > playfield),
    > 3) Temporarily re-install the scoop, with just the right screw, and
    > rotate the scoop back as far as it can go in the Bunker hole,
    > 4) Mark the location where the other two screw holes should go,
    > 5) Remove the scoop again,
    > 6) CAREFULLY drill pilot holes (don't go through the top!) where your
    > two marks are, and
    > 7) Re-install the scoop, one last time, in the new location,
    >
    > ...if it meant getting Cliffy-style protectors for this machine? I'd
    > gladly do it to my machine, but I don't think Cliffy is going to be
    > sold on finishing this project on just my word ;)
    >
    > Thanks again,
    >
    > Gerry Manis.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Mine is also:

    1) Yes, shorter by about 1/16th of an inch
    2) Yes, mounted slightly forward

    I agree with Bill. If possible, please make the PF overlap extra wide to
    cover the damage to the control room and bunker holes.
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    1) I won't make them at all if they won't let the balls go in the holes
    2) ain't you guys afraid 1/2" would look a little ugly? :)


    Drone wrote:
    > Mine is also:
    >
    > 1) Yes, shorter by about 1/16th of an inch
    > 2) Yes, mounted slightly forward
    >
    > I agree with Bill. If possible, please make the PF overlap extra wide to
    > cover the damage to the control room and bunker holes.

    --
    Cliffy - CARGPB2
    A passion for pinball!
    http://www.passionforpinball.com
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Cliffy wrote:
    > 1) I won't make them at all if they won't let the balls go in the holes
    > 2) ain't you guys afraid 1/2" would look a little ugly? :)

    Just be sure you don't make them overlap too much into the pops/orbit
    shot.

    That's already a tough shot and I'd rather look at the damage than
    reduce my chances of making it even more.
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Hi, Cliffy.

    It's going to be difficult to bend that particular scoop, since it has
    a support on the side of it. Also, the problem isn't the HEIGHT of the
    scoop, its the DEPTH of the hole. The ball is caught by the back of
    the scoop, not the top!

    Thanks again for your help, JP owners definitely need these.

    Gerry Manis.
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Two JPs, both of which confirm what is said above. To me, the only
    solution would seem to be to move the scoop, but that may affect
    gameplay. The scoop currently kicks out nicely onto the flipper and my
    concern is that moving it in the way suggested may have the ball kicked
    out onto the slingshot - and with my luck, probably off the slingshot
    and straight down the right outlane :) . Only way to find out is to
    try it - any volunteers?
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I would do either, although bending the scoop would have a wider appeal
    as it doesn't involve drilling. Same with the PF overlap. I probably
    have more damage than other folks, but at the end of the day, I'll take
    whatever you throw my way :)

    Jim
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