TECH: JM hand won't move (almost) at all!

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi,

I just got me a Johnny Mnemonic. Not surprisingly, the hand mechanics
has it's problems: it won't move (almost) at all. I tried to google this
but didn't find any similar occurences, so please bear with me. And if
this post looks long and boring, it's only because I try to give as much
details as possible.

At startup, the hand moves appr. 1/4 inches to the right and immediately
back, repeating this a few times. At Y axis it won't even budge from
it's position, which appears to be as close to the player as possible.

The error messages say "hand mechanism Y - no progress" and "hand
mechanism Y home sw. error". It might have said the same for X before
but having closed both the switches a few times this is all there's
left. The switches seem to work fine in the switch test. In solenoid
test "x motor direction" the hand behaves just like at startup. "y motor
direction" rotates the Y motor a bit (less than in X's case) and then
stops. "x motor enable" produces a sound that I wasn't able to locate
(something happens somewhere), as does "y motor enable", too.

I measured the voltages from the motors' poles and they show about +21V,
which drops to about +19V for a short short while when the hand tries to
move.

The hand test fails, apparently. This time the hand won't move in either
direction at all. The DMD just says "x: home (x) pos ( )( ) -64" and "y:
home ( ) pos (x)(x) 280". I tried to simulate the situation with
VPinMame and there I can't go below zero at X axis in the hand test. (At
Y axis I probably could, if only I knew which buttons to use)

The previous owner had always had it broken, he didn't know much about
pinball aside playing. Should I take the whole assembly apart, or do
some additional voltage measurements (which kind?), or something else?

Thanks a bunch in advance,

--Jarkko
(please remove .nospamplease and .invalid if you reply by email)

 

[Adi]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Here: http://www.marvin3m.com/wpc/index3.htm#odd
Scroll down and find JM glove problems. Clay does a great job explaining
what needs to be done and what's going on. Also, don't overlook being it a
mechanical problem. Look up Wms bulletins as well.
Good luck.

Adi
www.txpinball.com





"Jarkko Kuoppamäki" <jkuoppam@cc.nospamplease.hut.fi.invalid> wrote in
message news:F1UDe.6986$OT1.971@reader1.news.jippii.net...
> Hi,
>
> I just got me a Johnny Mnemonic. Not surprisingly, the hand mechanics
> has it's problems: it won't move (almost) at all. I tried to google this
> but didn't find any similar occurences, so please bear with me. And if
> this post looks long and boring, it's only because I try to give as much
> details as possible.
>
> At startup, the hand moves appr. 1/4 inches to the right and immediately
> back, repeating this a few times. At Y axis it won't even budge from
> it's position, which appears to be as close to the player as possible.
>
> The error messages say "hand mechanism Y - no progress" and "hand
> mechanism Y home sw. error". It might have said the same for X before
> but having closed both the switches a few times this is all there's
> left. The switches seem to work fine in the switch test. In solenoid
> test "x motor direction" the hand behaves just like at startup. "y motor
> direction" rotates the Y motor a bit (less than in X's case) and then
> stops. "x motor enable" produces a sound that I wasn't able to locate
> (something happens somewhere), as does "y motor enable", too.
>
> I measured the voltages from the motors' poles and they show about +21V,
> which drops to about +19V for a short short while when the hand tries to
> move.
>
> The hand test fails, apparently. This time the hand won't move in either
> direction at all. The DMD just says "x: home (x) pos ( )( ) -64" and "y:
> home ( ) pos (x)(x) 280". I tried to simulate the situation with
> VPinMame and there I can't go below zero at X axis in the hand test. (At
> Y axis I probably could, if only I knew which buttons to use)
>
> The previous owner had always had it broken, he didn't know much about
> pinball aside playing. Should I take the whole assembly apart, or do
> some additional voltage measurements (which kind?), or something else?
>
> Thanks a bunch in advance,
>
> --Jarkko
> (please remove .nospamplease and .invalid if you reply by email)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

You should not be able to manually move the hand assembly in any direction.
If you can move the hand in the X direction then it's likely you have a worn
X-nut. This is mounted to the rear of the moveable part of the hand carriage
and is driven by the X worm shaft. Depending on the amount of wear it's quite
possible the hand will not move out of the X "home" position.

I think the X-nut is no longer available; you may be able to remove the nut
from its mounting clip, turn it a half-turn, and re-assemble to get some
additional life from it.

Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

In article <F1UDe.6986$OT1.971@reader1.news.jippii.net>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jarkko_Kuoppam=E4ki?=

<jkuoppam@cc.nospamplease.hut.fi.invalid> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I just got me a Johnny Mnemonic. Not surprisingly, the hand mechanics
>has it's problems: it won't move (almost) at all. I tried to google this
>but didn't find any similar occurences, so please bear with me. And if
>this post looks long and boring, it's only because I try to give as much
>details as possible.
>
>
>--Jarkko
>(please remove .nospamplease and .invalid if you reply by email)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

A very common problem in this game is cracked solder joints developing on
the motor directional control PCB mounted underneath the playfield. Remove
this PCB and inspect- I'll bet you'll find at least a few cracked joints. A
reflow of solder on all the pins on one we recently restored cured all the
problems with the glove...

Hope that helps!

Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com

We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!



"Jarkko Kuoppamäki" <jkuoppam@cc.nospamplease.hut.fi.invalid> wrote in
message news:F1UDe.6986$OT1.971@reader1.news.jippii.net...
> Hi,
>
> I just got me a Johnny Mnemonic. Not surprisingly, the hand mechanics
> has it's problems: it won't move (almost) at all. I tried to google this
> but didn't find any similar occurences, so please bear with me. And if
> this post looks long and boring, it's only because I try to give as much
> details as possible.
>
> At startup, the hand moves appr. 1/4 inches to the right and immediately
> back, repeating this a few times. At Y axis it won't even budge from
> it's position, which appears to be as close to the player as possible.
>
> The error messages say "hand mechanism Y - no progress" and "hand
> mechanism Y home sw. error". It might have said the same for X before
> but having closed both the switches a few times this is all there's
> left. The switches seem to work fine in the switch test. In solenoid
> test "x motor direction" the hand behaves just like at startup. "y motor
> direction" rotates the Y motor a bit (less than in X's case) and then
> stops. "x motor enable" produces a sound that I wasn't able to locate
> (something happens somewhere), as does "y motor enable", too.
>
> I measured the voltages from the motors' poles and they show about +21V,
> which drops to about +19V for a short short while when the hand tries to
> move.
>
> The hand test fails, apparently. This time the hand won't move in either
> direction at all. The DMD just says "x: home (x) pos ( )( ) -64" and "y:
> home ( ) pos (x)(x) 280". I tried to simulate the situation with
> VPinMame and there I can't go below zero at X axis in the hand test. (At
> Y axis I probably could, if only I knew which buttons to use)
>
> The previous owner had always had it broken, he didn't know much about
> pinball aside playing. Should I take the whole assembly apart, or do
> some additional voltage measurements (which kind?), or something else?
>
> Thanks a bunch in advance,
>
> --Jarkko
> (please remove .nospamplease and .invalid if you reply by email)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

adi@txpinball.com wrote:

> Here: http://www.marvin3m.com/wpc/index3.htm#odd
> Scroll down and find JM glove problems. Clay does a great job explaining
> what needs to be done and what's going on.

Thanks Adi. I've read Clay's manuals numerous times but had never
noticed there were game specific issues explained as well. This should
keep me busy for a while (bought the pin the last day before vacation
I'm still on... fingers itching already).

One more thing though: Am I allowed to move the hand by (my own) hand or
should I leave it as it is - makes it easier the re-test the X switch?
What about the propellers that activate the optos - if they block the
opto there no way I can test the optos (right?)

> Also, don't overlook being it a
> mechanical problem. Look up Wms bulletins as well.
> Good luck.

I've read and printed the manual and know about the two bulletins. I'll
recheck those once again.

Thanks,

--Jarkko

 

[Adi]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

You can do all that and test the optos in the diagnostics with the test
glove entry. It's a pretty cool device, one of my favorite pinball toy
gimmicks. Post back if you encounter a problem. Best of luck.

Adi
www.txpinball.com


"Jarkko Kuoppamäki" <jkuoppam@cc.nospamplease.hut.fi.invalid> wrote in
message news:dpUDe.6993$A%1.105@reader1.news.jippii.net...
> adi@txpinball.com wrote:
>
> > Here: http://www.marvin3m.com/wpc/index3.htm#odd
> > Scroll down and find JM glove problems. Clay does a great job explaining
> > what needs to be done and what's going on.
>
> Thanks Adi. I've read Clay's manuals numerous times but had never
> noticed there were game specific issues explained as well. This should
> keep me busy for a while (bought the pin the last day before vacation
> I'm still on... fingers itching already).
>
> One more thing though: Am I allowed to move the hand by (my own) hand or
> should I leave it as it is - makes it easier the re-test the X switch?
> What about the propellers that activate the optos - if they block the
> opto there no way I can test the optos (right?)
>
> > Also, don't overlook being it a
> > mechanical problem. Look up Wms bulletins as well.
> > Good luck.
>
> I've read and printed the manual and know about the two bulletins. I'll
> recheck those once again.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Jarkko

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi,

I spun the threaded rods by hand, as suggested on Clay's site. This way
I was able to successfully finish the hand self test. However, at
startup the hand tends to move to the left and towards the player, as
much as possible and the hand gets stuck again. Any suggestions what is
causing this?

Ray Johnson appeared to have had similar problems last year:
http://tinyurl.com/bwevq . I did try to reflow the solder on the
inductor coils in the center of the motor driver board (under the pf).
This did the trick for Ray but not for me. There isn't any visible
cracks or bad traces on the board. And both the relays click when I run
'X' and 'Y Motor Direction' in the solenoid test.

--Jarkko


Jarkko Kuoppamäki wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just got me a Johnny Mnemonic. Not surprisingly, the hand mechanics
> has it's problems: it won't move (almost) at all. I tried to google this
> but didn't find any similar occurences, so please bear with me. And if
> this post looks long and boring, it's only because I try to give as much
> details as possible.
>
> At startup, the hand moves appr. 1/4 inches to the right and immediately
> back, repeating this a few times. At Y axis it won't even budge from
> it's position, which appears to be as close to the player as possible.
>
> The error messages say "hand mechanism Y - no progress" and "hand
> mechanism Y home sw. error". It might have said the same for X before
> but having closed both the switches a few times this is all there's
> left. The switches seem to work fine in the switch test. In solenoid
> test "x motor direction" the hand behaves just like at startup. "y motor
> direction" rotates the Y motor a bit (less than in X's case) and then
> stops. "x motor enable" produces a sound that I wasn't able to locate
> (something happens somewhere), as does "y motor enable", too.
>
> I measured the voltages from the motors' poles and they show about +21V,
> which drops to about +19V for a short short while when the hand tries to
> move.
>
> The hand test fails, apparently. This time the hand won't move in either
> direction at all. The DMD just says "x: home (x) pos ( )( ) -64" and "y:
> home ( ) pos (x)(x) 280". I tried to simulate the situation with
> VPinMame and there I can't go below zero at X axis in the hand test. (At
> Y axis I probably could, if only I knew which buttons to use)
>
> The previous owner had always had it broken, he didn't know much about
> pinball aside playing. Should I take the whole assembly apart, or do
> some additional voltage measurements (which kind?), or something else?
>
> Thanks a bunch in advance,
>
> --Jarkko
> (please remove .nospamplease and .invalid if you reply by email)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

sounds like your magnet/glove switch isn't being made.


Jarkko Kuoppamäki wrote:
> I think I've solved the moving problem in my Johnny Mnemonic now, but
> catching the ball with the magnet fails almost every time. It succeeded
> once, carrying the ball to the matrix, so the magnet must be ok (right?).
> Other than that, when the VUK throws the ball up, the magnet catches the
> ball for only half a second and then loses a grip. After a 4-5 retries it
> always burns the F104 fuse.
>
> Now I've read the manual addendum 2 in http://www.pinball.com/tech/hand.htm
> which addresses this case and recommends dressing the wires. But which wires
> does it mean: the black and the white wire coming from the magnet, the two
> wires coming from the hand switch that are already dressed in black or the
> whi-vio and grn-ora wires coming from the Y home switch? All these go
> through the spiral plastic wire guide in the back of the hand, as they
> should
>
> The weird thing for me is that in the hand test, I can move the hand in
> every direction for as long as I like, or I can do the solenoid test for
> either the VUK or the hand magnet, and none of these burns the fuse. But if
> I try the auto-run test for the hand (which feeds the VUK, throws the ball
> up, should catch the ball, carry it to the matrix), catching the ball fails
> 95% and eventually blows the fuse. If there's a short somewhere, shouldn't
> it short while moving the hand.
>
> Oh, and according to the switch edges test, the hand switch works fine. For
> how long should the hand magnet solenoid test hold the ball, by the way?
>
> Any help is appreciated,
>
> --Jarkko
> (please remove .nospamplease and .invalid if you reply by email)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

could be the transistor shorted to ground as well.
I know the glove switches are bit problematic. And if it grabs the
ball for a half sec, and holds it, then drops it, seems like somewhere
there's a switch that's not telling the CPU where the ball is at.
I think the ball needs to be completely centered in the magnet when the
switch is made.
No rolling it around. Could also be that the switch is gummed up
somewhere and that it takes a while to warm up and make contact. Also,
be sure that the switch (opto or otherwise) is functioning properly on
the VUK.

If a fuse is blowing, I might suspect that a transistor is shorted to
ground on the power driver board. But Lloyd and the other gurus here
on RGP should be able to help diagnose a problem like that.

Be sure to report your findings/solutions!!

Jer

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I think I've solved the moving problem in my Johnny Mnemonic now, but
catching the ball with the magnet fails almost every time. It succeeded
once, carrying the ball to the matrix, so the magnet must be ok (right?).
Other than that, when the VUK throws the ball up, the magnet catches the
ball for only half a second and then loses a grip. After a 4-5 retries it
always burns the F104 fuse.

Now I've read the manual addendum 2 in http://www.pinball.com/tech/hand.htm
which addresses this case and recommends dressing the wires. But which wires
does it mean: the black and the white wire coming from the magnet, the two
wires coming from the hand switch that are already dressed in black or the
whi-vio and grn-ora wires coming from the Y home switch? All these go
through the spiral plastic wire guide in the back of the hand, as they
should

The weird thing for me is that in the hand test, I can move the hand in
every direction for as long as I like, or I can do the solenoid test for
either the VUK or the hand magnet, and none of these burns the fuse. But if
I try the auto-run test for the hand (which feeds the VUK, throws the ball
up, should catch the ball, carry it to the matrix), catching the ball fails
95% and eventually blows the fuse. If there's a short somewhere, shouldn't
it short while moving the hand.

Oh, and according to the switch edges test, the hand switch works fine. For
how long should the hand magnet solenoid test hold the ball, by the way?

Any help is appreciated,

--Jarkko
(please remove .nospamplease and .invalid if you reply by email)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

<mrjmross@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124281784.098576.157880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> sounds like your magnet/glove switch isn't being made.

Thanks for a suggestion, but in the switch edges test the hand switch seems
to me working fine: if I put the ball inside the magnet and roll it around,
the switch stays closed all the time. I guess if it was intermittent or
aligned poorly this would be the case. Right?

And it probably wouldn't explain the blowing fuse, either.

--Jarkko

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

There may be an intermittent short on the black/white wires to the
magnet. The motion across the back eventually can cut through the
insulation. You can move it all day without blowing the fuse because
the magnet isn't active. I took some of that ribbed plastic housing
that they use to detail cars and enclosed the wires in the smallest
size of that. It actually looked much cooler and it protected the
wiring.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:10:48 +0300, "Jarkko Kuoppamäki"
<jkuoppam@cc.nospamplease.hut.fi.invalid> wrote:

>I think I've solved the moving problem in my Johnny Mnemonic now, but
>catching the ball with the magnet fails almost every time. It succeeded
>once, carrying the ball to the matrix, so the magnet must be ok (right?).
>Other than that, when the VUK throws the ball up, the magnet catches the
>ball for only half a second and then loses a grip. After a 4-5 retries it
>always burns the F104 fuse.
>
>Now I've read the manual addendum 2 in http://www.pinball.com/tech/hand.htm
>which addresses this case and recommends dressing the wires. But which wires
>does it mean: the black and the white wire coming from the magnet, the two
>wires coming from the hand switch that are already dressed in black or the
>whi-vio and grn-ora wires coming from the Y home switch? All these go
>through the spiral plastic wire guide in the back of the hand, as they
>should
>
>The weird thing for me is that in the hand test, I can move the hand in
>every direction for as long as I like, or I can do the solenoid test for
>either the VUK or the hand magnet, and none of these burns the fuse. But if
>I try the auto-run test for the hand (which feeds the VUK, throws the ball
>up, should catch the ball, carry it to the matrix), catching the ball fails
>95% and eventually blows the fuse. If there's a short somewhere, shouldn't
>it short while moving the hand.
>
>Oh, and according to the switch edges test, the hand switch works fine. For
>how long should the hand magnet solenoid test hold the ball, by the way?
>
>Any help is appreciated,
>
>--Jarkko
>(please remove .nospamplease and .invalid if you reply by email)
>