Tom's Hardware: Topic THG Apologizes and removes the 3.4, 3.6 EE
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<A HREF="http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-22.html" target="_new">http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-22.html</A>
Alright you desperate mongrels trying to outwit THG. They just apologized and even explained themselves. Takes a BIG, and I mean BIG man to apologize in this industry.
So Crash and many others will like here what I say: Shut the flak up about this issue and go suck on other websites' nuts all you want, but leave THG outta this one!
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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> 
Yeah I kinda see your point.
What I do respect is that THG apologized. Think of nVidia's continued lying and wrongdoing and compare that to THG quickly apologizing. Takes a lot to do that. I admire them for that and definitely it makes me feel people continue to bash against THG for bias with no background.
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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A>
I guarantee you they are, I checked many, and they are off!
You must have your IE cache omitting to refresh.
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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A>
God damn the fagboy fanboys are everywhere. *spud pulls out can of fagboy fanboy killer* psst psst holy shite im all light headed!!!
-Jeremy
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7013108" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1311896" target="_new">Busting More Sh@t Up!!!</A>
For myself, I simply tuned any part of the chart that didn't have the top CPUs from each company. Having seen reviews containing just what you stated I will say that they looked "cleaner," but they do require you already having an idea in your head about how the other CPUs score. I dunno, may THG thought there was enough hype to bring more casual readers in that would need the extra stuff.
Edit: er, "tuned out" that is. Of course, perhaps like any good instrument, THG needs a bit of tuning every now and then. 
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by bandikoot on 09/25/03 01:36 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
I don't get the whole Ferrari and Corvette comparasion, since it doesn't apply.
If a Ferrari was only $100-150 more, why not get it for the performance? It's about speed and performance right?
If the Corvette was, say, $5000 less, then you'd have a reason, but it's not, in this case.
If AMD is $150 less than an intel CPU, that's not too bad. But when you have to add extra for mobo and RAM, it makes that $150 a moot point, does it not? With the A64-FX being over $700USD and the P4EE being approx. $750-800USD, what's the difference? With a P4EE, anyone with an existing 800FSB mobo and DDR400, saves money by not needing them, while the A64-FX needs a new mobo ($120-250) and registered ECC RAM (???). You're now paying <i>more</i> for the so-called Corvette than the Ferrari, aren't you?
Price/performance went out the window this go round. Like it or not, AMD and intel will be priced pretty damn close to each other, or AMD will not gain the needed profit margin it needs.
Just my opinions...
How many watts does it take to get the center of CPU core?
Okay...I don't get that either, but my point wasn't just memory, but the whole CPU price/performance issue.
If the A64-FX cost $799 (according to THG) and the P4EE cost $849 (THG), then the price/performance issue wouldn't be there, would it? Especially with mobo and RAM costs considered. BUT...since the P4EE is supposedly able to run on exisiting 800FSB mobos, most P4 800FSB owners won't need to buy a new mobo and RAM to use it, while A64-FX owners are straddled with the costs. That makes the price/performance issue go against the whole "AMD is a better price/performance solution".
Again, as for the RAM pricing in the review, that's strange. If the A3200+ and P4 used the same type of RAM, that shouldn't be different. The A64-FX, I can see, since it is registered RAM, but not the other two. Maybe THG can shed more light on the RAM types used on each system during testing.
How many watts does it take to get the center of CPU core?
Firstly, we are not desperate mongrels trying to 'outwit' THG. It was borderline deceit and simply did NOT make much sense.
The unbiased were correct about this.
I didn't see to much opposition from my posts on the subject besides the usual from the usual fanboys and their lackeys.
And even the mob intel mentality around here can't stop the truth.
In coolsquirles thread I even posted something about admitting wrong restored your honor and credibility...
<b>CONGRATS THG!</b>
I'm really glad to see this. I defended Toms during the recent Omar/HardOCP/AMDZone conflict all over the web and I don't want to see them destroy their rep over something so blatantly deceitful.
See, the good guys DO win sometimes!
Everybody who was brave enough to promote the issue deserves a pat on the back!
This admittance is hopefully a new era for THG of watching that kind of funny business.
Congrats again everyone! 
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eden is my intel/ati superboy
Respekt!! Kudos to THG for fixing this, it's good to see that they respond to the people who actually read their material. I must honestly say, that I prefer reports on CURRENT situation (ie: only post what us AMD/Intel Fanbooi's can get our paws on).
btw: Could you guys perhaps do an article on 'Extreme Systems' perhaps have systems that you guys would consider VERY GOOD systems. Perhaps some water cooled for the fans, and then some conventional ones thnx
Haha futuremark goons are coming over. Man this place is starting to go down hill.
-Jeremy
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7013108" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1311896" target="_new">Busting More Sh@t Up!!!</A>
Ok to all you asking this ridiculous "Where is the PC1600" thing.
First of all, AMD has always supported 100MHZ FSB, and since the FX has an INTEGRATED MEMORY CONTROLLER which doesn't use an FSB, THG actually gave a great example of where the sweet spot for the Athlons are!
For Christ's sake we have 400MT P4 benchmarks everywhere, but little low-bandwidth tests from AMD. It's a great example to show how the memory controller works on the K8, and where it is best coupled. Since it is Dual Channel, you can see just how much a K8 jumps from 3.2 to 6.4. In some cases it is drastic. Overall the memory performance by doubling the bandwidth offers up to 20% in most cases, while the P4 would be extremely flexible. But to answer you about the P4, well it's simple: P4 mobos don't always support past FSBs, or often that's the chipset. A Canterwood chipset has no way to run 400MT. At least from what I know. So using PC1600 is ridiculous because the FSB is also not toned down.
Needless to say the focus was on the K8 and to prove where the memory controller falls and where it rises. Dual Channel finally makes a big difference on Athlons, thanks to the ODMC.
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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 09/25/03 01:13 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
You seriously have to be kidding me.
You've probably never heard of the P4 2.4GHZ C, or the 2.6GHZ C?
I didn't know you left mid-end away.
You come in, chime your AMD bells, then go away, what a great way to make credibility here ain't it.
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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A>
I personally still don't think they actually did anything wrong in including the Oced benchies, except (if their statement is accurate) perhaps printing spoilers about an upcoming article. They didn't mislabel them, or make <i>any</i> fraudulent claims about them.
If people are too stupid to read what's in front of their eyes, then that's entirely their own problem.
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<font color=red>The preceding text is assembled from information stored in an unreliable organic storage medium. As such it may be innacurate, incomplete, or completely wrong</font color=red> 
No pattern, it's just that the A64-FX uses register DDR memory, which doesn't have the fastest timing around.
The A64 is a single channel DDR mobo, which will affect the speed compared to dual channel DDR mobos.
I don't see what was wrong with the tests, since THG put it clearly in their testing specs.
Motherboard
Intel 875
(Socket 748) Asus P4C800-E Deluxe Rev: 1.02
Bios: 1011 BETA 006
4 x 256 MB CL 2.0-2-2-5 (200 MHz)
4 x 256 MB CL 2.0-2-2-5 (133 MHz)
Nvidia nForce
(Socket 462) 2 Ultra Asus A7N8X Rev: 2.00
Bios: 1006
2 x 512 MB CL 2.0-3-3-6 (200 MHz)
2 x 512 MB CL 2.0-2-2-5 (166 MHz)
2 x 512 MB CL 2.0-2-2-5 (133 MHz)
Nvidia nForce 3 150
(Socket 940) Asus SK8N Rev: 1.03
Bios: 1003 BETA 002
2 x 512 MB CL 2.5-3-3-6 (200 MHz)
VIA K8T800
(Socket 940) MSI K8T Master 1-FAR (MS-9130)
Bios: 1.0Bd Rev: 1
2 x 512 MB CL 2.5-3-3-7 (200 MHz)
VIA K8T800
(Socket 754) MSI 8KT Neo (MS-6702)
Bios: 1.0 Rev: 1.0
2 x 512 MB CL2.0-4-4-8 (200 MHz)
You can say it was crippled, but when you use what is available for the present mobo, it's not crippled, it's what's available at the time. Maybe THG will retest with newer, better latency RAM?
How many watts does it take to get the center of CPU core?
I totally agree and share your sentiment Omid, this is my point all around.
No one seems to even respect THG for having gone the extra mile in such a long and in-depth article, covering MUCH MORE benchmarks than usual. They even improved the benchmark statistics by uncovering the strings and settings used. They reported the bugs, as an analyst's report would. They wrote a lot and yet people will see through, as if they never gave it a chance and a read.
Sometimes maybe stopping writing because no one can appreciate hard work anymore, is the solution. Kinda like how Tom stopped. It'd be sad as heck, but that's what the majority wants, no? The majority of course, being those who can't try to look further but criticize hard work.
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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A>
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