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cdpage   10-02-2003 at 07:05:53 AM

ok I understand x86, somewhat, but can some one give me a run down of the differances of what other CPU types are out there. and why we are so stuck on the x86 platform.

I only know of x86's and i guess AI64 (what is AI?)

are there other types of Processors?

What is the Power chip? is the G5 an AI64 or some other form of 64bit, and is the G4(or any Mac) an x86? or some other 32bit.(or is it only now that IBM is producing them?) if not what is/was it.

also what are the Sun Micro Systems chips? i belive they too have AI 64 but are I'm not too sure.

some clerification on this would be great.
go in to as much detail as you like, i understand the most of the jargin, just can't seem to use it.



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infiltrator   10-02-2003 at 11:36:51 AM
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OK, from what I understand, there are a few chip vendors for x86 : AMD, Intel, VIA, and maybe 1 or 2 more. These all make IBM Compatible chipsets (if you can call it that).

Apple have their own chip(Power Chip), and so does Sun (RISC based?).

AMD have released their Opterons (mainly for servers), AMD FX51 (Extreme Gamer/ Poweruser edition) and AMD Athlon 64. Intel are going a new chip in end November(Codename Prescott).

If you are looking for a Gaming type PC, you will prolly look in getting an AMD or Intel. Sun and Apple are more expensive, and are normally used for Servers (Sun) and graphics (Apple). Although I know Sun are heading for the desktop market now too.

Dunno what AI64 is, but I know between AMD and Intel, you will find that both impliment 64bit computing in a differet way, and they have different optimisations (like SSE2 and hyperthreading in Intel and Hypertransport in AMD)

Hope this helps. I may be wrong with a few facts, but I'm sure others will help ;)

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cdpage   10-02-2003 at 08:56:40 PM
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wasn't exactly the responce i was looking for. but thanks you.

I know all that realy. infact i think that some of apples chips are RISC as well. some off the G4s are i am pretty sure anyhow.

I guess im looking for more of a detailed reponse looking to where the chips come from and how they work comparitivly.
x86s are 286, 386, 486, then i guess the petium 1 was the first 586? does this continue upwords? or does it stop at x86? and all these P4's are variations of the x86? or are the like 7, 8, 986?

also these x86's come as a short form from a bigger number that is the accual chip, but i forget that too.

and i think that 64 bit can be in the form of an x86-64 too...but i can be totaly worng there.




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Zoron   10-02-2003 at 09:49:24 PM
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All of Apple's PowerPC processors are RISC-based. I'm not sure about their earlier processors. x86 processors are what we consider 'IBM compatible' CPUs. Basically, if it runs Windows natively, it's probably a x86-based CPU.

Since the first Pentium, CPU manufacturers have gotten away from using the x86 numbering convention (although I think IBM put out chips that were called 5x86 and 6x86... not sure though). Remember though... all PCs considered to be 'IBM compatible' are based on the x86 architecture. Pentium, PII, III, IV and AMD K5, K6, K6-2, K6-3, Athlon/Duron... all of them based on the same architecture... they just don't have 'x86' in the name anymore.

I forgot to mention... Sun's CPUs are also RISC-based.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Zoron on 10/02/03 03:54 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

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pIII_Man   10-02-2003 at 10:08:04 PM
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Just about all intel cpus (even the oldies) run some variation of x86. A 386 could theortetically run any code that an athlon xp or p4 could run. After the 386 there was no (or at least not much) tweaking to the instruction set, just cpu enhancments (mmx, 3dnow ect.). All modern cpus also have an x87 unit, basically this allows them to run math based operations, early cpus, 286, 388... could use an optional math co-processor (also called a copro mpu or fpu) the copro would really increase math aplications' performance.

Here is a little intel cpu run down....

Pentium 586
pentium pro and pentium mmx 586.5 (they kinda fall inbetween)
pII/piii 686
P4 (all flavors) 786

The IA64 is the instruction set that i beleive the iatanium uses.

The biger numbers, are 80X86/80X87

example: a 80386 = a intel 386
a 80387 = the coprossesor for a 386
it is really the model number of the cpu.


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy

Reply to pIII_Man
Zoron   10-02-2003 at 10:52:30 PM
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Then there were the 'DX' processors... 386DX and 486DX... these also had the 'math coprocessor' built-in... making a separate co-processor unnecessary.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>

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pIII_Man   10-03-2003 at 02:39:30 AM
- 0 +

did the 386dx have an intigrated math copro? I think not

I beleive the 486 did.


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy

Reply to pIII_Man
Zoron   10-03-2003 at 03:50:02 AM
- 0 +

I was sure that both did... it's been so long that I really don't know for sure. If not, then what was the difference between 386SX and DX?

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>

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Spitfire_x86   10-03-2003 at 04:21:51 AM
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386's definately didn't have integrated math co-processor. 386SX was a 16 bit CPU and DX was 32 bit.

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cdpage   10-03-2003 at 07:05:54 AM
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Great thanks, thats more like what i was looking for.

still a little lost on the AI64 instruction set though. and still don't know what 'AI' means...if it means anything at all

But as for understanding where were at with the 386/7 sets i think i have a better understanding now.

now since the 386SX was a 16 bit. and the 3 or 486DX was 32bit are there x86's that are 64bit? and what is there instruction set.



I might keep this post going for a while. to not only answer some of my questions but hopefull other peoples to.

if not, hopefully it'll help refreash some minds here about how similar and disimalar these CPUs are.


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spud   10-03-2003 at 03:41:45 PM
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You switched the letters around it make more sense.

-Jeremy
Unofficial Intel PR Spokesman.

:evil: <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq¬found=1&code=1" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up In My Buddies Face!!!</A> :evil:

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slvr_phoenix   10-03-2003 at 05:01:33 PM
- 0 +

Quote :

still a little lost on the AI64 instruction set though. and still don't know what 'AI' means...if it means anything at all


I think that you're a bit confused here. IA64 (AKA Itanium) is Intel's 64-bit architecture. (Guess what the IA stands for... Intel Architecture...) Just as IA32 is Intel's internal name for x86, which covers all of the Pentiums, Celerons, and Xeons.

And AMD's name for their new 64-bit extensions to x86 (AKA x86-64) is internally named AMD64.

Just so you know though, while the names like IA64 and AMD64 are more or less just marketing buzzwords, there is a <i>huge</i> massive difference between Intel's IA64 and AMD's AMD64. AMD just extended x86 from 32 to 64 bits. Intel didn't even consider x86 (or even RISC) when they designed IA64. They went with EPIC instead.

But anywho, I hope that helps explain things a little more. :)

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>

Reply to slvr_phoenix
cdpage   10-03-2003 at 06:54:38 PM
- 0 +

perfectly... up untill EPIC.



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spud   10-03-2003 at 06:56:22 PM
- 0 +

Ill explain everything monday tuesday'ish I promise.

~Jeremy
Unofficial Intel PR Spokesman.(nVidia fill in rep for CoolSquirtle)


:evil: <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq¬found=1&code=1" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up In My Buddies Face!!!</A> :evil:

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slvr_phoenix   10-03-2003 at 07:01:58 PM
- 0 +

Just think of it as another basis for computing like RISC and x86. I'm sure that Intel has tons of information on EPIC. It's a long and complicated explanation to really understand it. 'Tis funky stuff.

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>

Reply to slvr_phoenix
spud   10-03-2003 at 07:03:33 PM
- 0 +

Hence what I am up to, everyone will understand I promise.

~Jeremy
Unofficial Intel PR Spokesman.(nVidia fill in rep for CoolSquirtle)

:evil: <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq¬found=1&code=1" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up In My Buddies Face!!!</A> :evil:

Reply to spud
shadus   10-03-2003 at 08:04:09 PM
- 0 +

Here's what you want to know I think...

16 Bit x86 Family:
Intel: 8086, 8088, 80186, 80286

32 Bit x86 Family:
Intel: i386xx, i486xx, Pentium, Celeron, Pentium2, Pentium3, Pentium4, Xeon, Pentium5
Cyrix+Via/IBM: 486, 5x86, 6x86, Cyrix3
AMD: 386, AM486, AM5x86, K5, K6, K6-2, K6-3, K7/Athlon, Athlon XP, Athlon MP

64Bit x86 Family:
AMD - A64

32Bit Other Family:
Motorola 68k: 680##
PowerPC: 60# Series, x704, 740, 750, 74##
Sparc: Micro, Weitek, Micro2, Hyper, Super, Super2, Thunder
MIPS: R2000, R3000
ARM: 610, 710, 810, 940, 1020, StrongARM 110, StrongARM 1100
RISC: 7000

64Bit Family:
PowerPC: 620, 630, RS64
Sparc: Micro3, Ultra, Ultra2, Ultra3, Ultra4, Ultra5
Alpha: 21064, 21066, 21164, 21264
Intel: Itanium/IA-64, Itanium-2
MIPS: R4000, R5000, R6000, R7000, R8000, R10000, R12000
RISC: 8000

Mind most of these numbers are series of chips... and I'm literally missing thousands of chips here... especially in the 16bit other and what would need to go as 8bit other. IBM makes power pc and amd is way late in the game as far as 64bit chips go... they're just the first x86-64 chip. I'm not postive what the transmeta chips are, we're having an arguement about them at the office here now... some are saying 32, some 64, and a couple are saying 128/256... i'm saying who gives a sh!t.

RISC- Reduced Instruction Set Computer (ARM, MIPS, PowerPC, etc)
ARM- Advanced RISC Machine
MIPS- Microprocessor without Interlocked Pipeline Stages
CISC- Complex Instruction Set Computer (x86 chips qualify generally)

Shadus<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by shadus on 10/03/03 02:22 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

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