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Everywhere I go…TOM Sucks.

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October 6, 2003 10:42:32 PM

Just about every forum I visit almost all who have read the Athlon vs. Emergency Edition P4 states that TOM is unreliable bias Intel loving review site who definitely got paid by Intel to skew the results…

Now, before you flame, I don’t believe in it… but word is spreading fast and you know how damaging that could be. There is nothing worse or better (depending on how you look at it) than word of mouth.

Oh, this isn’t just coming from AMD zealots, but ATI, nVidia and even Intel zealots… all in all it appears like hardware enthusiast in general and no one specifically.

Anyway, what even makes TOM look even worse is that they admitted their mistake and pulled out OC non-existent emergency edition processors from the bechies? Oh, people have notice that their writers are even posting in the forum to further defend themselves by discrediting AMD in the process.

Wasn’t Omid posting in the CPU section, does he post in any other section?

Anyways don’t kill the messenger.

Have fun.

-pied

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by pied_piper2004 on 10/06/03 06:46 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

More about : gotom sucks

October 7, 2003 12:04:06 AM

Yes poopy it is such a conspiracy, i think you should buy an amd cpu before the little green men get you.


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy
October 7, 2003 12:07:22 AM

I think you're both, the messenger and the speaker for them.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 7, 2003 12:35:12 AM

Nah, just messenger... I am just saying what is going on out there... it's a perception, not the truth...

But once people have made their minds up, can you fight it?

I’m curious, how do the people (from other message board) perceive Tom’s hardware…

Is Tom bias towards Intel? Are they credible? What happens when a lot of people just stop believing Tom's analysis thinking they have sold out or it's bias in one way or another?

Kinda like the Inquirer, most people don’t take them seriously, is Tom going down the same path?

Who knows, but many people are saying that Tom has sold out.

Too bad for Tom, their reputation is on the line
October 7, 2003 12:48:55 AM

Well, what can you do. THG won't sacrifice integrity for mass dumbasses that do their purchasing from Dell's adds on Extreme Graphics system. They can go blame all they want. They have no substantial facts to prove anything. Not when last year AMD "was leaps and bounds ahead" and Intel was "a nose ahead" (when the latter was dominating like there's no tommorow), according to THG.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 7, 2003 1:03:27 AM

But what is key here is the particular article that TOM insisted (or got forced/bought) to include an OC Emergency Edition P4 to confuse people who quickly browse benchies, That has changed a lot of opinions about TOM and people feel that they were completely bias in that review (Again true or false?) People don’t seem to care.

They are quickly labeling TOM bias and leaving their credibility to rot, you know the path traveled by the Inquirer

Do you think you defending TOM will change people’s minds?

Personally I don’t think you care about Tom’s analysis anyways, just as long as you’re accepted in their community. This might explain you’re constant swing vote.

-pied
October 7, 2003 1:52:41 AM

Define that last sentence.

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 7, 2003 2:00:59 AM

Quote:
This is not poopy..lol

Ok poopster, i just want ya to know that no matter what your name is i'll always want ya, now come here big boy...


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy
October 7, 2003 2:08:20 AM

You made it clear in the other thread you wanted women!

So, that's it? That's how it ends? *cries*

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 7, 2003 2:28:47 AM

I think the fact that you keep slipping in "Emergency Edition" speaks volumes about how objective <i>you</i> are.
October 7, 2003 2:44:54 AM

Make no mistake, I prefer AMD... I own one, but this isn't about that, read again.
October 7, 2003 3:15:09 AM

My objections are nice and simple:

It reflects poorly on T0M's to compare products that aren't publicly available (P4 EE) to products that are (Athlon FX).

If an article is about speculating what will be the top product in N months, that's different. Don't confuse the two.

Please, T0M's, don't ignore the existence of 64-bit versions of linux and the importance of (easily ported) scientific applications in the marketplace.

And please... never, ever say in the present tense "Product X wins the performance crown" when I can't buy it off pricewatch right now.

My lesson learned (er... reminded): don't trust just one source for your information.
October 7, 2003 3:58:58 AM

First off, WHAT THE FVCK is "T0M's"?! Since when did he become a l337 jackass?
Now then, it was available to him, and get it through yer head- generally hardware sites have products <i>before</i> the actual consumer. This is how the whole thing goes u know- u check out product x and say hmm, that looks sweet, now I know what to buy in 2 weeks (that is when it comes out in 2 weeks). The Emergency Edition(messenger boy, that's my new favorite name for the P4 :lol:  ) will come out, and it will be a player too, so this way we know what to blow our cash on.
And before I hear a word about how I'm pro-Intel, realize that I'm gonna be buying a dual hammer system within the next few months :wink: .

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 7, 2003 4:14:01 AM

That's all fine and dandy, but why OC a non-existent CPU again? Then blend it in for a couple days in the benchies? Just playing devils advocate here.

Is a 3.8 EE coming too? That's what they showed, didn't they? The 3.8 one is weeks away right? It was relevant, right? - Have you heard rumors that there MIGHT NOT be an Emergency Edition after all, at least not in any quantity. They just might release the next speed bump, and that's all till presshot.
October 7, 2003 5:23:00 AM

I stated this before, but Anandtech did use O/C'd A64 (not the FX) in their benchmarks, but no one has bitched about that. What is the difference???

Okay, the P4EE isn't available to everyone, yet, but THG has one, so they used it to compare. Isn't that what benchmarking is all about? And they O/C'd it from 3.2 to 3.6. So what? I could tell the difference...and the non-O/C'd P4EE did very well, so again....who cares if he O/C'd the P4EE?

If you make the comparasion that the P4EE was O/C'd and the A64-FX wasn't...fine. Maybe the A64-FX couldn't O/C very well.

Also, rumors are just that, rumors. If the P4EE doesn't come out, I really don't give a rat's ass, since I wasn't planning on buying one...same goes for the A64-FX.


How many watts does it take to get the center of CPU core?
a b à CPUs
October 7, 2003 6:59:27 AM

The problem is that Tom's writers tell the truth, they don't sugar coat it. Read the "about us" for THG to find out how Tom himself stuck it to Intel a few times, faced retaliation by Intel, and is therefor more likely to support a slight bias in favor of AMD than Intel.

In other words, people are stupid. You see stupid people spewing lies because they live in their own little world, where AMD is a competitave company.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
October 7, 2003 8:47:35 AM

Why is it when anyone flames INTEL under a new name.. u jump in and think its me

i dont even post here that much anymore after that NAZI fredi banned me for free speech

are u obsessed with me or something... and i the ultimate enemy against the company u would die for INTEL?

do u have a girlfriend? NO? figures
October 7, 2003 11:04:26 AM

Ah, classic wit from our forum icon.

It was wrong to assume it was poopy when it most definitely was not.
Check your facts before accusing someone.

Its nice to finally see a coherant force against the pathetic intel crowd around these parts when I'm busy with RL.
I've taken the intel community to school many times at THGC and I will do it again.

-----
eden is my intel/ati superboy
October 7, 2003 1:31:45 PM

...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!!! wooooo!

(Thanks fer the laugh)

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 7, 2003 1:33:06 PM

Considering Fredi is from Germany, you're being more racist than anything there. If I were you I would watch out what you say before he reads this.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 7, 2003 1:36:19 PM

Your argument is extremely flawed. You should then come up with an explanation why THG reviewed nothing but paper-launched AMDs the entire last year. The 2600+, the 2800+, and likely the 3000+, all a bunch of paper fanboy-magnets. It tooks almost 3 months before the 2800+ existed, yet during that time it was dubbed the winner against the 2.8GHZ P4!

That's the market.

And let's not forget how people attacked THG last year for their ultimate AMD bias. Most people, when you mention Frank and Bert, will think BIAS FOR AMD. Heck, bbaeyens' satire website on THg was to make fun of how they write, and it talked about the Barton.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 7, 2003 1:46:21 PM

Of course i am, you are the love of my life man, i really wana stick it to ya in your tight "socket a"


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy
October 7, 2003 5:58:18 PM

Personally I think THG deserved to lose some credibility for this article, and some other's recently too, because honestly it was awful and the graph "mistake" with the OC'd CPU's just made it worse.
October 7, 2003 7:46:55 PM

Your posts have similar effect, retard.

-----
1700+, Epox 8RDA, 512MB DDR266 DualDDR, Radeon 9800 Pro, Audigy, Logitech Z560s, MX500, Maxtor 80gig 8mb cache
October 7, 2003 7:48:55 PM

Wow its getting hot here, i should change my username before i get lynched


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy
October 7, 2003 7:53:06 PM

*spud bangs head into kinny's crotch* uuuuuuuuh uuuuuuuuuuuuh uuuuuuuuuuuuuh kinny's my friend uuuuuuuuuuuuuuh miss powanda i messy in my shorts again. *spud bites kinny's cock off* uuuuuuuuuuuuh *spud runs off*

~Jeremy
Unofficial Intel PR Spokesman.(nVidia fill in rep for CoolSquirtle)

:evil:  <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up In My Buddies Face!!!</A> :evil: 
October 7, 2003 8:31:10 PM

<i>right</i>

*whistles and walks away*


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy
October 7, 2003 10:51:26 PM

*ground shakes, the fires of hell go out and all freezes over*
Flame stands up for Eden in this one
:eek: 

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 7, 2003 10:54:47 PM

j00 can't pwn ][ntel cause ][ntel pwns j00!!!!

Ok, u must have some kind of mental disorder. The facts presented in defense are perfectly sound and prove the point. But apparently one can't argue with you stupid puppies cause ya just don't get it.
Let's start with the basics and maybe you can work your way up from there to become a real boy one day (that includes getting rid of yer ePenis and growing a real one....with pubic hair!!!!!)
1+1 = ?
2+2 = ?
Next:
Given P and Q, and that P is false, then the statment is ?
Given P or Q, and that Q is false and the statement is true, then P is ?

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
October 7, 2003 10:58:22 PM

>Nah, just messenger... I am just saying what is going on
>out there... it's a perception, not the truth...

As a long time reader (from day one really), but someone who has turned his back on THG over a year ago after the the "3.2 GHz P4" engineering sample fiasco, and as the author of the Toms hardware tribe spoof, I think I could play spokesman for those that ignore THG..

I spend most time now on other forums (ars technica, aces and rwt mostly) and this is what the 'consensus' is: THG is mostly clueless and its conclusions carry about as much weight as a helium balloon. THG is sometimes accused of intel bias, but that is really not a consensus. Personally, I dont think so. Their only bias is pagehits, they will do anything for pagehits. Its their business after all. therefore they will when possible make controvertial articles (like that pseudo time warped overclocking article, the athlon meltdown video, etc). Not necessarely pro intel or pro AMD, but just controversial either way.

Other things that are being ridiculed (and rightfully so, IMHO) are the complete lack of analysis. No more searching for explanations WHY a cpu or other product exibists a certain performance profile, no investigation in benchmarks (just use Q3, Sysmark and 3DS), but don't ever investigate what these benchmarks measure, or what happens when you change workloads. No original non-mainstream benches (like anand forum server test, or most of Aces' tests) either.Every other cpu review is just a copy paste job, often with the word for word identical (and nonsensical) paragraphs like the eternal 'archiving is a very practical application'. Conclusion and comments often are in direct conflict witht the numbers, the charts are as long as roll of toiletpaper, the colour schemes make it hard if not impossbile to quickly get a feel for the results (red=new... geez). the editorials bare as much relevance to the IT industry as Jerry Springer to my personal life. Omid is not only clueless (I could copy/paste a few blunders from emails from him if you like), he is simply immature, and even less credible as Van Smith.

Anyway, if you want to know more about how I feel about THG, may I suggest you (re)read this:
<A HREF="http://home.planetinternet.be/~bbaeyen2/thb/" target="_new">http://home.planetinternet.be/~bbaeyen2/thb/&lt;/A>
Have a look at the disclaimer for some background, and in the guestbook to see I'm not exactly alone in my thinking.

Eden, the word is yours now..

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
October 8, 2003 12:04:47 AM

That link/satire is the funniest thing I ever read in my life... some of those comments are truly scary.

-pied

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by pied_piper2004 on 10/07/03 10:52 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 8, 2003 12:06:34 AM

This post is mental. You reduce it to name calling. This makes you better?
October 8, 2003 12:11:18 AM

I'm trying to prove a point that we can't argue with half the idiots because they do not listen to reason.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 8, 2003 12:26:41 AM

Well try having a point first, name calling will get you no where.
October 8, 2003 12:38:22 AM

WTF is <i>your</i> point?

Honestly what are you trying to prove, that tomshardware sux? Then just fvcking leave! You don't have to be here. Most people here are level headed enough to realise that no matter what, everyone is entitled to mistakes, THGC screwed up, wheather or not they truly mixed results with a future article we won't know, but after all of the good articals they have written they are entitled to a screw up.

Anyone who says that tomshadrware is bias against amd has not been with THG long enough. Tom's reports the truth, just because you dont like it or cannot live with it, that does not mean you have to come here acting like a dick. Toms has flamed intel in the past, has flamed amd, and has done quite a bit to show Nvidias "enhancments."

So shut your mouth


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy
October 8, 2003 12:59:07 AM

WOW you are thickheaded. What the hell could I be implying by saying one can't reason with logic with you?
Amazing, just amazing.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 8, 2003 1:07:29 AM

I don't get it either.

<i>Tom's sucks! Tom's is so Intel biased! I'm never coming here again!</i>

When then why in the blue hell do you feel the need to drag your ass back here and respond? If you're going to leave, LEAVE! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Those of us that come here will continue to come here with or without your constant bitching.

I mean really... if it is so damn bad, why do you keep coming back for more? Tom's is certainly not the only publication out there stating that the AMD64 is a little disappointing. The FX is a damn good chip, but unfortunately expensive right now.

I didn't hear ANY of you shedding tears when Intel was called out over the whole 1.13GHz scandal. You were strangely silent when Tom's blasted Intel for it's decision to use Rambus initially. Your hearts weren't bleeding when Tom's included overclocked AMD CPUs (that weren't available at the time either) in some of their benchmarks. So what is the deal here, folks?

Get over yourselves. If you want to dry-hump AMD CPUs, go do it over on the AMD forums... they love that sort of thing. If you want objective opinion, come here. If you just want to bitch, go find your own bandwidth and quit wasting mine.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
October 8, 2003 1:30:32 AM

Holy crap!

Flame!
Ok, well, I'll make this one pass, I can flame you later anyways :wink: ...

*Jumps in the ring, gropes Flamey for good luck :lol:  and shouts* : You go man! You showed that Kinney how to stand up!

*slight shudder at the odd twist followed by a still feeling of goodness and satisfaction*

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 8, 2003 1:41:13 AM

Actually on this post I'll grant you a point. (aside from the comments against Omid)

Aside from the hilarious satire, your points are valid and I do also feel that. It doesn't sway me against THG, though. I am still trusting their figures, and as a conscious buyer I know that I should look everywhere not just one place to find out if my purchase is worthy, as well as the fact that a site doesn't influence everything I do with their words.
THG has some benches of their own and that's that, just like Anandtech. THG is often conservative as well, which is a good ideal scenario because many systems perform less than the sites' results who often employ the best hardware settings, and it also allows you to picture a worst case result. This is actually a good thing(although bad for conclusions if not all hardware tested is conservative), since you really could at that point picture either a realistic situation on your PC, or even get better results, thereby making your system "better tuned".
I see it optimistically, indeed.



--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 8, 2003 1:59:03 AM

Ahhh Spuddy. You can always count on him to drop in for a quick shag. :smile:

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 8, 2003 2:14:31 AM

I said right from the beginning I don’t think this site is bias, (although I think the EE vs. Athlon wasn’t just)

Look at yourselves! I simply just bring up the issue that a lot of people outside your little realm believe that Tom is bias (which is wrong IMHO) you guy's jump the gun right away and act like 7 year old school girls...

Read again, post number 1...

Man oh man, YOUR pathetic.
October 8, 2003 2:55:54 AM

If you see yourself as a pointer to the tech community outside of THG, see our comments and arguments as if they were with them.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 8, 2003 3:00:25 AM

Your post is excellent and you have excellent points. Never thought of the page hit angle, I know it wasn’t conspiracy, I just don’t buy that crap. But Lets see if the numbskulls could actually comprehend you points and not reduce this perfectly good discussion to name calling or saying kidish things like "Don't let the door hit yer ass on the way out”... truly laughable.

They said they aren’t bias, but who are they defending? Their community, Tom, Intel and/or all of the above? Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

But one thing is for sure, in a classic sense, they are defensive when you bring up Intel, Tom are their community.

-pied


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by pied_piper2004 on 10/07/03 11:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 8, 2003 3:01:32 AM

Good point, but in this case, I'm just the messenger.
October 8, 2003 3:10:21 AM

They are synonomous in the analogy.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 8, 2003 3:18:14 AM

Really, I don't think so. Not my belief, I like TOM as, if not more (minus the latest Athlon report) then most other hardware enthusiast site I visit. ACE is getting my respect though, but not quite up to Toms. The word is still out there. speaking of which, have you seen the reactions out there? What I want to know, can it actually damage TOM and their credibility?
October 8, 2003 3:22:03 AM

It's best you refer to Tom's as THG, as you are always saying TOM and that can almost be considered a direct attack at the founder. Tom himself is not in this. Best keep his respect where it is.

Tom wrote one of the best Pentium 4 core architecture articles out there, as well as the GF3's, IMO.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
!