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Everywhere I go…TOM Sucks. - Page 3

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October 9, 2003 3:36:57 AM

Can't wait to see UFO's reaction to this one.

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 9, 2003 3:37:50 AM

Leave 'im bey, we'll go catchum Kinney-boy and t'other fools 'round the heouse!

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 9, 2003 3:43:15 AM

Well.. I was talking to flamey, I just dont like you.

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1700+, Epox 8RDA, 512MB DDR266 DualDDR, Radeon 9800 Pro, Audigy, Logitech Z560s, MX500, Maxtor 80gig 8mb cache
October 9, 2003 3:50:07 AM

Then you're gonna start not liking Flamey if you go on.

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 9, 2003 4:00:01 AM

What do you mean noone? you just did!
October 9, 2003 4:02:12 AM

Truth or page hits, which one benefits them most?

It seems like you’re in a little world.
October 9, 2003 4:02:19 AM

Kinney I am going to have to ask you to refrain from speaking any longer you suffer from verbal diarrhea and it hinders all of our post experiences when you post.

thx so much for you cooperation.

~Jeremy
Unofficial Intel and nVidia PR Spokesman.



:evil:  <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up In My Buddies Face!!!</A> :evil: 
October 9, 2003 4:08:13 AM

Did you also see the pricing *cough* mistakes? Looks to make AMD look more expensive then what it actually is... compared to Intel of course.

Blunder after blunder after blunder

Man I wish my clients were as understanding as you guy’s with all the blundering in the analysis. In my case data integrity is our life source, 1 mistake on a report and we would die a quick death.
October 9, 2003 4:58:20 AM

Nice response, I too hate hypocrisy (something my parents were very good at; do what I say, not as I do damn you...) I can say that I've owned many more AMD systems than Intel systems for the main fact that I've always been tight on money and AMD usually has the best bang for the buck, and even though i'm a power user at times, I don't think under normal operations I could possibly tell the difference between a say barton 2500 and a 3200, even though there is a $300 price difference, my *ePenis* is just fine the size it is, so having the leading edge stuff doesn't make my man hood suffer, therefore arguements against just who is the fastest doesn't have any relevence to me until a couple months later when i'm in the market for last years performance kings at a killer price. I love AMD from a competition standpoint. If AMD didn't/doesn't make it, we would all be paying $500 bucks for pentium pros because they would have no reason to release their chips as fast as they are now. And every 3 months they would release a .1ghz faster processor and charge 300 extra bucks for it; oh wait that happened for a long time a few years back. I used to be a crazy nvidia graphics fan, but once they made it to the top they seemed to turn into every other company at the top, where money from their name was enough to sell products and they seemed to cut all money for their R & D because their latest line of products don't match up the competition, so I switched over and my most expensive graphics card purchase ever was a 9700pro, which I couldn't be happier with. ATI has earned my support. But Nvidia is still very important because competition is the only thing that gives us consumers an advantage. I still wish cyrix was in the mix, I actually owned one of their 586's (i think that was the name). Just think of the pricing war if all 3 were major players....aww consumer paradise.

As for the last article THG produced about the current cpu leader etc, it was one opinion and everyone should consider it and then find more opinions to base their purchasing on. Not everything has to be a blaintent pro amd or pro intel conclusion, they run some tests and state a current winner based on alot of information, thats what they (THG) have always done, sometimes their conclusions are based on hypothetical situations because product *A* doesn't yet exist at that speed etc, but that doesn't make the information invalid, just maybe the conclusions.

ps, to prove my original point of hand picked products, WHERE THE HELL ARE THE Q17'S? It was recommended by THG, yet you can't buy one, because they aren't even sold, not the model they reviewed anyway. This is definitly NOT THG's fault, its just annoying because I wanted one :) . This seems to also be true for RAM modules, reviewers get sent the best and consumers are left with bad odds of getting what was glorified in the reviews. I just wonder how often this happens with CPU's, getting unlocked versions ect, so compairing overclocing in a benchmark might be semi irrelevent considering you the cpu you would be buying won't be unlocked, is a possible problem. Saying an intel chip can overclock to 3.8ghz or back when the 3200 was being overclocked to what 3.0gigz and winning in benchmarks over the 3.06ht chip.....just take it for what it is, information, not handed down by God, just information which might be useful or might not. Conclusions show amd the leader or show intel is the leader for things that you can't currently buy, so who cares, wait until they come out, read reviews at other sites which seem to not be quite as biased towards invisible products and figure out for yourself who is the leader.

<font color=purple>A7n8xDX2.0|B2500+@200x11=3200+(2.2ghz)(1.775v)Corsair512twinxpc3200llpt(2-2-2-6)R9700P(stock)160Gx2WD7200RPM 8MB HD|Enermax460W|T:43C@N,50C@FL,MB 28C|3DMark2001 17087|3DMark2003 5134</font color=purple>
October 10, 2003 4:50:10 AM

Well said dinkster9,
I think you summed it up very well..
Nice post.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
October 10, 2003 9:15:03 AM

>And let's not forget how people attacked THG last year for
>their ultimate AMD bias. Most people, when you mention
>Frank and Bert, will think BIAS FOR AMD. Heck, bbaeyens'
>satire website on THg was to make fun of how they write,
>and it talked about the Barton.

Hu ? Did you actually read it ? Did it show any pro AMD or intel bias ? I mocked a lot of things, but no AMD bias.. go read the disclaimer

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
October 10, 2003 10:17:09 PM

Point being you mocked them at the time, when they were only using such kind of comments in AMD's favor. You surely remember whenever Intel was winning, it'd be a hair micron ahead, but when AMD was, it was leaps and bounds of elephant feet. My only thing to draw from it was back then the comments were a tad pro-AMD (although it didn't make the benchmarks biased or the article itself), and you had your satire up at that time.

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol:  <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 10/10/03 06:21 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 10, 2003 11:27:59 PM

You believe they were a little pro AMD = bias (you just admitted it). Now why don't you believe they could be a little pro Intel now? After all, through your eyes they are bias, just not when it concern the other side.

This is not a cheap shot, but you have to admit that that article (FX vs. OC P4EE) was a little skewed…

-Inaccurate price list for components
-OC paper launch processor compared with an available stock clock processor
-Any 1 positive mentioned 3 negative follow it
-Crowning a non extent processor victorious
-Bench numbers not consistent with other benchies from more reputable hardware analysis sites
-Omid bashing AMD in the forums
-so on and so on

I don’t think they are biased, but they are poor at analysis… I work in a research company, and we would be ashamed if we produced report like they do.

I do however like the community here; the people are growing on me.

Chow – pied
October 11, 2003 2:27:32 AM

Quote:
You believe they were a little pro AMD = bias (you just admitted it). Now why don't you believe they could be a little pro Intel now? After all, through your eyes they are bias, just not when it concern the other side.

Make no mistake when I said: I believe their <i>comments</i> were biased, but the article in itself was not. (then again not many of us remember these old articles in detail!)
When the Pentium 4 came out, it was of course defeated like an ant. AMD had all the praises. Yet Tom was very open minded and even admitted he liked the P4. Despite all of this, the core was special. This is what I like about THG's articles, they won't deride the product entirely. They delivered the truth, in the recent article, ACCORDING TO THEIR RESULTS. Whether accurate to other sites or not (remember, IMO they simply benchmarked conservatively, and in a previous post here I explained how this can translate into a positive thing!), you also have to admit, your researches require an analysis ON THEM based on WHAT THEY RETURN. This is why I can't say THG was biased in this article. Fact is, the P4 EE came out late, but did they screw the date for posting the article and make pages dedicated to it? Nope. They spent a month worth making sure AMD's new processor (yet they didn't do this much fanfare for Opteron!) was explained thoroughly (although not explicitly like Ars would go in), and at least it provided the remaining pieces to complete what we already knew about it. It was a long read, but I liked it. I'd only hope you all could try to look at their side. Working for a month non-stop, making sure you deliver the most info. The only thing that ever ruined all of this was the P4 EE's launch, made by bullyish tactics by Intel, which destroyed what could have been an all-out AMD fanfest. Think about that road that could've been travelled!

Quote:
Inaccurate price list for components

I admit there was something WEIRD about the prices. I could've sworn they tried to take Canadian pricing, but even then it was lower than the crap conversion rate we have!
My guess is they used some bad conversion rate issue. I noticed also you once questioned the DDR400 price. Remember man, they stated that they ran into some bank or slot troubles and had to use 2*256MB or more, rather than a full stick which, as we know by laws of volume, costs less. That easily accounts for the extra price. So I think that is settled.
Quote:
OC paper launch processor compared with an available stock clock processor

Ahh, that I can't concede and won't ever. Remember how THG reviewed MANY paper-launched AMDs. Heck even Tbreds were not available before a little while. They OCed it against the P4 and couldn't do much with it (Tbred A fiasco) So IMO, whatever the reason THG used the extra P4s in ther, doesn't the least bit bother or affect my opinion on their article. Anyone dumb enough to skim through without even noticing or knowing the P4EE 3.2GHZ is the real CPU, deserves what he got. Confusion...
Quote:
Any 1 positive mentioned 3 negative follow it

As I recall THG praised AMD in almost every comment no?
Besides, unless they changed them, my best guess why they were so pro-AMD, was because they never switched and reanalyzed their comments to favor the matches where the P4EE won, so that made it look like they only reviewed the A64 FX against the 3.2GHZ. Only a guess though. It's logical when you look at the comparisons they did, which didn't reflect at all the new P4EE's existence, which was not even mentioned in the comments IIRC.
Quote:
Crowning a non extent processor victorious

Don't blame them, they crowned the AXP2800+ when it wasn't out before 2-3 months! They also did that with the XP2600+, but that processor deserved every bit of praise. It was the demonstration of just what AMD can do with their fabs if they worked hard. Lo and behold, within 3 months of the Tbred A catastrophe, a new model comes out completely cooler, faster, and able to OC damn well. Tbred B was a shiny processor. Ah if only they could clock it so high really.

Quote:
Bench numbers not consistent with other benchies from more reputable hardware analysis sites

I explained above the internal exploration of their side of things and why I think their results were different. IN ADDITION, the fact they ADDED so many benchmarks, (they had the most!), they only gave us all a wider perspective. Granted, more games should've been used, but other sites proved that very well. THG axed more on home multimedia use and indeed in such aspects, most of the time the P4 won. Was it biased against the FX? Doubtful. It was a good purpose as well, because it showed us just how far it's gotten in the multimedia sector and if there is a chance for it to dominate. You'd wish so, but alas, the FX really needs clock speed now more than anything.
Quote:
but they are poor at analysis

Relatively speaking, yes, I agree. However that happens with the CPU editors, Mr. Volkel and Topelt. If Tom was speaking, you'd get a very professional outlook. Likely no one'd try to debate his comments. THG has great reviewers of other types of articles. Why, the most recent GFX article on the XT, was most excellent. It's unanimous, Lars no longer demonstrated the supposed nVidia bias he had, and made sure so many new games were benched to show where the ATis stand against their poor competitors. David Stellmack is another author on THG worthy of respect. He definitely has great writing. Read his ATi Mojo Day article from last year to see why I like this writer who has talent.
Quote:
I do however like the community here; the people are growing on me.

Hehe that is a bit surprising considering your time here so far was spent mostly on fighting! :smile:

Glad to hear that, and if you think this is already growing, then when you venture one day into the OTHERS forum, boy will you become crack addicted. This place is my sanctuary to say the least, and I hold it dearly and do not intend to leave any soon. The OTHERS forum is a hilarious relaxation site and we all love it. Most of us grew on it and simply hold it as our little corner. So get ready bud, yer about to be sucked in!

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 11, 2003 2:36:00 AM

Man, did u see Anandtech's FX benchies. I gotta say it looks tasty now....real tasty

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 11, 2003 2:43:20 AM

To add to my last comments, people who plan to stay here for a good while should consider adding their pics to the THGC Album. Either click on my sig or the link on the top of the Forum page. Everyone gets their own page, ask us anything and we'll add to it. The rules are on the webpage. We got 56 members so far, and it's going along damn well!

So I hope I'll see you and many other newcomers or fellow residents, on the album. A big thanks to Scamtron who made sure my project worked and turned into a true site of great yet simplistic design.

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 11, 2003 2:45:46 AM

I saw it, no, it's nothing really, relatively.

Yes, it's MUCH better, but really, is it even close to being a recommended card?
You read Anandtech's comments, they had so much bugs, visual problems like no AA, and many games displayed lots of performance problems STILL. It's a dead architecture filled with problematic gaps. Especially when AA and Aniso is turned on.

It's a great driver update, but no, it does not look tasty at all. It'd be a cold day in hell before I recommend any FX anymore, until they prove they can tie ATi everywhere. ATi's drivers which now feature an anti-crash feature (yay for you! :tongue: ) called VPU Recover, have been proven to be the most stable and most performing. Now if they could get their FireGL act together...

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 11, 2003 3:03:20 AM

Err I meant the AMD A64-FX.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 11, 2003 3:10:49 AM

Woops!

Damn AMD, following the new FX trend. Off to the trash XP goes!

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 11, 2003 4:57:22 AM

Windows FX? :eek: 
O hell no!!

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 11, 2003 5:07:31 AM

I just thought of that possibility for the Windows Longhorn commercial name....

Almost inevitable...

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<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>This just in, over 56 no-lifers have their pics up on THGC's Photo Album! </b></font color=blue></A> :lol: 
October 11, 2003 5:11:35 PM

Gaaah! That'd sound so bad!

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 12, 2003 12:06:34 AM

Is it just me that finds the fact they used PCI SATA adapter in RAID 0 mode, straining the PCI bus a couse to poor performance?

long time ago me 2 was a regular visitor both to the site and forums, AKA "LoveGuRu".
me 2 thinks THG sucks and ppl here are waaaay 2 serious of their opinions, good thing we dont have to peace talk with you being representative of nation @ war..

The bench for itself is rediculos, this is a new CPU article and not an OC article as HW sites sometimes do.
eludes me the reson of this poorly built article, dont they have an editor?

btw, TOM is directly responsible for every thing that comes out of THG, i would expect nothing less then taking full resposability for his emloyees actions as would i in this scanario.

damn ppl your posts are so long and tedious and repititive..

*Roar* i think im gona catch me a nooner (sleep) after reading this thread..

2004 guy, your opinions are fairly unbaised and respectable.
!