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I'm getting tired

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October 9, 2003 2:12:12 PM

I'm getting tired of all these "best performance" arguments. Who,(besides a limited scientific/server/computer graphics etc.) would need all that power? I'm still using an athlon 650 slot A with a geforce 3 ti200 and 512 sdram. Only now do I feel the need to upgarde, and only because of new games coming out in the near future. I'm planing on spending ~$800 with ~$200 on case + PSU. Anybody who has enough money to buy(waste) one of the new P4:EE or AMD FX for <i><b> home </b> </i> use, should visit a shrink to cure him of his 'hey look at me I'm really cool cause I have a big processor and it's prolly a chick magnet too' syndrome.

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>

More about : tired

October 9, 2003 3:42:24 PM

Summary:

Blah blah, i'm willing to play games at 20-30fps, blah blah you're stupid because you aren't, blah blah I use my computer in a way thats differnt from you so you're wrong blah blah. Whatever wanker, Piss off.

Shadus
October 9, 2003 3:54:19 PM

That's, perhaps, a little harsh... although I personally can notice a huge difference between my older XP2000+, 512Mb DDR, Geforce2 Ultra system and my newer Oced 2.2Ghz DDR400, Geforce 4Ti4600 system in any game newer than a couple of years old.

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<font color=red>The preceding text is assembled from information stored in an unreliable organic storage medium. As such it may be innacurate, incomplete, or completely wrong</font color=red> :wink:
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October 9, 2003 3:56:47 PM

Prolly, I'm in a craptacular mood today though so fsck em. I would hope you would notice a big difference between a gf2 and a gf4/4600! The ddr400 prolly helps but thats a hella big graphics card upgrade.

Shadus
October 9, 2003 4:26:50 PM

Oh yeah.. But <i>if</i> I'd never upgraded I prolly wouldn't know any different....

e.g. when I used to play doom on a 386SX 16Mhz, I believed that ~15FPS was perfectly playable, but having now gotten used to >60FPS in most things, there's no way I'd want to go back.. They say that 30FPS is the 'golden number' but I find even that sort of level <i>slightly</i> unresponsive these days.

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<font color=red>The preceding text is assembled from information stored in an unreliable organic storage medium. As such it may be innacurate, incomplete, or completely wrong</font color=red> :wink:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
October 9, 2003 4:30:45 PM

You know, you are basically right. Few people would be best served with a >$800 cpu, and in most cases the real world difference between a P4EE/AFX and a lowly 2.4 GHz P4 or 2500+ Barton would be insignificant, and barely noticeable without benchmarking tools. So why do people care anyway ? Probably because if some cherry picked 4GHz/4000+ cpu available for >$4000 in quantities not exceeding a few dozen per quarter beats the other cherrypicked 4GHz/4000+ cpu, they can make generalization like 'P4 beats Athlon' (or vice versa), and since they own a P4 (or Athlon), surely that applies to them as well. Dunno.. maybe its comparable to the automotive world, I got a BMW and BMW beats Mercedes in Formula 1, so I've got a better car or something. (Nevermind the fact my BMW is only a lowly and bog standard 320D Turbo diesel, and my neighbour has a Mercedes ML420 with a fat V8 and full option).

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
October 9, 2003 4:34:19 PM

Only ppl who will buy those high end stuff are rich guys who don't care about money. As far I am concerned just get whatever you think is best for you money instead or stay with what you have of complaining about it to others what system to get!!! Just discuss CPU instead of trying to kill each other or critizing every single post!!!
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by unseen on 10/09/03 12:36 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 9, 2003 4:42:12 PM

I would certainly never buy the absolute top-end stuff.. My current CPU only cost me about £40 when I bought it (xp1700+) I bought it because I knew I'd be able to overclock the hell out of it :smile: Wheee! cheap <i>and</i> near top-end performance.... (196x11.5 = ~2250Mhz)

That said though, I don't skimp on stuff like RAM, cos I know I want stuff that won't limit my Ocing. (e.g. I've got Corsair Twin 3200LL stuff at the mo)

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<font color=red>The preceding text is assembled from information stored in an unreliable organic storage medium. As such it may be innacurate, incomplete, or completely wrong</font color=red> :wink:
October 9, 2003 5:51:23 PM

Quote:
Summary:

Blah blah, i'm willing to play games at 20-30fps, blah blah you're stupid because you aren't, blah blah I use my computer in a way thats differnt from you so you're wrong blah blah. Whatever wanker, Piss off.

**ROFL** Crude, but thoroughly enjoyable. :)  More to the point though it's also completely correct. We each of us use our computers in different ways. Just because someone's needs aren't the same as my needs doesn't mean that they're wrong for their choice or that I'm wrong for mine. If people could just get that through their thick skulls. **sigh**

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
October 9, 2003 6:12:04 PM

I dunno, they all seem to think its an ego thing (getting hardware) and I suppose if you have a geeky enough circle of friends it is to some degree... I know! Everytime I see a post talking about hardware ego issues, I'll make a post about "Hardware Envy" suppose it kinda works like penis envy...

Shadus
October 9, 2003 7:27:39 PM

You know what the weird thing is?

I don't even <i>want</i> any shiny new Opteron or P4EE.

My last upgrade is keeping me quite happy on the performance. My next planned upgrade is noise. (As in big CPU heatsink with a low RPM 92mm or 120mm fan and possibly a fanless heatsink for my video card.) And I don't want that to brag. I want that so that I can enjoy some silence. (Or to enjoy some music without having to crank up the volume.)

And I'm not even sure if anyone else around here is really suffering from "hardware envy" either. I mean just because we talk about recent events we're envious? It just doesn't click with me. We talk about recent events because they're <i>recent events</i>. You know?

Like Roy was bitten by the tiger... <i>because it's a tiger!</i> **ROFL** I mean really? What do people expect?

<font color=green>Person A: Hey, did you see that review on the Athlon 64?</font color=green>
<font color=blue>Person B: Yeah. It was okay... but did you read that review of the 486 SX vs. DX? That math-co is da bomb!</font color=blue>

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
October 9, 2003 7:39:24 PM

No, no, wasn't talking bout you or the vast majority of people on the board... was more in reference to comments like this...

> Anybody who has enough money to buy(waste) one
> of the new P4:EE or AMD FX for home use, should
> visit a shrink to cure him of his 'hey look at
> me I'm really cool cause I have a big processor
> and it's prolly a chick magnet too' syndrome.

THAT is the kinda comment I think deserves a nice long post about having peni... processor envy :) 

I fully agree, as much as I generally buy top end when I buy, if I purchased right now, I don't know that i'd go for a ee or fx. More than likely i'd aim for a 64 or a 3.0c as both are pretty affordable and perform damn well.

My pc is silent, what I really want is a quiet hub now... I'm using a cast off MRXI-48 from an isp, lets just say the fans aint quiet.

Shadus
October 9, 2003 8:14:47 PM

What I meant was that the CPU is prolly the least important component. I can fully agree with someone who buys a Radeon 9800, even though I would not buy it myself. With a 9800 <i> ANY </i> proc. above 1.5 Mhz would give you >60 FPS on the highest settings for any game I can think of.

Noise is also very important. I'm gonna spend a lot more for silent cooling than on the actuall proc. A mb with all the correct features is also a lot more important.

I started this post after an acquaintance bought a new P4 2.8c on a sh!te mb with a 5200fx. Then I came here and most of the posts are all about how one or the other company is awesome because you get 600 fps instead of 550 in quake3. I get 100+ FPS in quake and it's more than enough for me. I realise that a 650 athlon is prolly a bit slow for newer games, but more importantly a GF3 is slow and so is sdram. Plus my K7M is sometimes not as stable as I would like it to be.

ALL i'm saying is <i>any new </i>CPU is more than sufficient for <i> home </i>use.

p.s. For those of you not clear on the issue: CPU performance does not in any way corelate with penis size.

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
October 9, 2003 8:31:57 PM

I tend to agree with you, I'm still using a 1.2Ghz w/ a quadro dcc (aka gf3) and 1GB ddr. I fall under the category of scientific and graphics and programming purposes, but strictly speaking for games, jah, it runs everything fine. I mean I can run Halo fine too. So then that means ur sys won't make halo very playable, but up until then it ran fine. I can see where ur coming from.

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
October 9, 2003 8:41:17 PM

My main reason for upgrading is that I'm tired of playing the newest games 0n 800x600 with 30~40 FPS. I want 1280x1024 with AA and AF and 60~80 FPS-----> I need a good video card, not a top-notch CPU.

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
October 9, 2003 8:42:12 PM

Quote:
No, no, wasn't talking bout you or the vast majority of people on the board... was more in reference to comments like this...

...

THAT is the kinda comment I think deserves a nice long post about having peni... processor envy :) 

Ja, I know. I was just ranting because you got me to thinking about it. It wasn't aimed at you. Sorry for the implication.

Quote:
My pc is silent, what I really want is a quiet hub now... I'm using a cast off MRXI-48 from an isp, lets just say the fans aint quiet.

It's funny just how much noise a simple fan can make. :\ I swear, if I had the money I'd start up a company devoted to making silent PC components and experimenting with higher-cost materials like using ruby for ball bearings. I really think that there'd be a nice little niche market out there for <i>quality</i> fans and professional case mods.

Like for example, the other day I'm looking at my Antec Sonata and thinking to myself how cool it'd be to have a Sonata case with an RF-shielded window on the side panel with some tasteful lights in the case. Why? To show off the fanless P4 heatsink cooling a 3GHz P4 that's made possible by the vent cut into the front door and top external 3.5" bay to feed the 'front' 120mm fan that's blowing this intake air straight across the CPU's heatsink where the exhaust 120mm and power supply fans suck it away. And of course you'd have to paint the front panel up really nice like the rest of the case and maybe put a logo or to there to show off. :) 

But imagine how cool it'd be to have a place to buy nice well-modded nice looking cases running with super-quiet fans and well designed airflow channels that allow for large fanless heatsinks. (Maybe even provides specially made large fanless heatsinks.)

<i>I'd</i> pay for that kind of quality. I'd love to see a company provide fanless graphics card solutions (other than Sapphire's very limited selection) with a waranty and everything. I'd love to run a business that's designed around providing solutions like that as well as researching other improvements. Heck, I've had two ideas for some really cool new cases that I wish I could see built one day.

I guess I'm just not much of a processor guy. Heh heh.

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
October 9, 2003 8:47:31 PM

I'd pay for that kind of quality too.

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
October 9, 2003 8:47:32 PM

Quote:
ALL i'm saying is any new CPU is more than sufficient for home use.

And all that I'm saying is that:
1) Not everyone's use is your idealistic view of 'home use'.
2) Just because we like talking about the newest stuff or even owning the newest stuff doesn't mean that we're saying "look at me I'm really cool cause I have a big processor and it's prolly a chick magnet too". It just means that we like talking about the industry and some of us can actually afford the stuff <i>and</i> will no doubt find an enjoyable use for it.

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>
October 9, 2003 9:01:23 PM

What do mean 'idealistic'. How do you use your home computer? And anyway, professionals have a reason to buy a super CPU. The vast mojority of people are <i> not </i> professionals. Certainly no fanboy is a professional

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
October 9, 2003 9:07:11 PM

I upgraded to an XP2100+ last December, I had been using a PII300 for almost four years beforehand.

If you a PC for anything else apart from web browsing etc., then the extra speed does make a difference. Things like rendering, compiling, file compression/optimisation etc. are extremely CPU intensive and a computer can never be fast enough for these things (especially when you are in a hurry).

Some things are silly, like buying a '5 year computer' when a '4 year computer' costs half as much. However, if you have the money...

(that said, anyone who pays £400 for a 3.2C when a 2.8C only costs £180 is insane...)

"Some mice have two buttons. Macintosh has one. So it's extremely difficult to push the wrong button." - Apple ad. circa 1984.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by captainnemo on 10/09/03 05:14 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 9, 2003 9:21:28 PM

Quote:
that said, anyone who pays £400 for a 3.2C when a 2.8C only costs £180 is insane

exactly



<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
October 9, 2003 9:32:40 PM

I'd find joy in owning a Rolex or a sports car, but that does not mean I need them. Recent events in technology are interesting because I have a passion for the subject, but heated arguments about the speed of CPU's are largely irrelevant. It's like an argument about which watch is better: Patek Phillipe or Rolex.

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
October 9, 2003 10:29:47 PM

Ooo oooo, I know the answer to that! It's the plastic watch I bought off the 50 cent vending machines!!!


The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
a b à CPUs
October 10, 2003 5:07:15 AM

I need every ounce of power I can get, my 2.4B is running nearly as good as possible, and is still far to slow for my home use.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
October 10, 2003 6:10:56 AM

far to slow for your home use? i am running the same thing...what is it that you are doing that you feel its not fast enough?

i'd say the only thing i'd like to see is photoshop open faster. but that will be the case even if a had a P6 8.9Ghz :p 

photoshop sucks - apoptygma berzerk

ASUS P4S8X - P4 2.4B - 2 x 512M DDR333 - ATI 9500 Pro(Sapphire) - WD 80G HD (8M Buffer) - SAMSUNG SV0844D 8G HD - LG 16X DVD - Yamaha F1 CDRW - Iomega Zip 250 int.
October 10, 2003 11:39:05 AM

Do you complain about your telly picture? That's only being refreshed 25 times a second. A film runs at 24 fps. Why would you want 60-300fps? Your eye (and brain) can't process that quickly.

Speed is nice, having spare cash is nicer!

There are lies, damn lies and statistics - Mark Twain.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
October 10, 2003 12:04:30 PM

>that said, anyone who pays £400 for a 3.2C when a 2.8C only
>costs £180 is insane...

Not necessarely, it depends. Some people don't like to (or are even able to) upgrade components, they buy a complete PC and will never even open the case, and once it is too slow, they will sell it and buy a new one. For those people, it may make sense to buy one of the fastest cpu's out there to future proof it as much as possible.

Also, $600 may be a lot, especially when compared to a only slightly slower $260 cpu, but if you buy a compete new setup like with a 2 huge TFT's, a $500 video card, a high end speaker setup, etc, those $240 are just a drop on a hot plate.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
October 10, 2003 12:18:48 PM

>they buy a complete PC and will never even open the case, and once it is too slow, they will sell it and buy a new one
Also stupid. A computer is not an appliance.

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
October 10, 2003 12:20:56 PM

Quote:
Do you complain about your telly picture? That's only being refreshed 25 times a second. A film runs at 24 fps. Why would you want 60-300fps? Your eye (and brain) can't process that quickly

I'm a Hardcore gamer. I am controlling the image on the screen. <i>That</i> is the difference. I <i>do</i> notice the difference, because It simply does not seem as responsive. Sure, It still <i>looks</i> smooth if you're just watching, but it doesn't <i>feel</i> that smooth.

---
<font color=red>The preceding text is assembled from information stored in an unreliable organic storage medium. As such it may be innacurate, incomplete, or completely wrong</font color=red> :wink:
October 10, 2003 12:21:01 PM

Thanks. I didn't know that.

That would explain why people want a high average frame rate then...

Okay, I stand corrected. (Well, actually, I'm sitting down, does that count?) ;) 

Andy

There are lies, damn lies and statistics - Mark Twain.
October 10, 2003 12:25:02 PM

Without taking overclocking in to account, anybody who wants to encode DivX movies will know where there money has gone when they get over 25fps during the encoding process. OK home use to most people will be a bit of gaming and scanning / web browsing etc... but there are many people who do intensive tasks like image rendering and film encoding for who CPU speed is the ultimate power requirement in their PC and simply put more cash equals faster process time - just look at Toms benchmarks with things like MP3 encoding and File compression. This proves that even everyday "home user" tasks are greatly improved with a faster CPU and there are a great many people who have large amounts of disposable income that would allow them to buy the top of the line chips.

Plus several people are missing the point when talking about Home use tasks - the issue is not whether or not my CPU can do X or Y but that I might be the sort of person who wants it done now and not next week - and crucially who is prepared to pay for it.

I used to be able to encode a Div X film over night (about 8 hours @ 7 fps) but now I can do the same job in half that time with my 2500+ and 512 MB Corsair memory. If I had infinite cash I would buy a P4EE and half the time again - that doesn't make me stupid - just a person who doesn't want to compromise on my PC performance.

I think you'll find that most people who moan about CPU performance not being relevant are those that are stuck with an old crappy machine and no cash or those who have not seen just how much faster new CPUs are. I see old P3 and P2 machines that are stil great for office use but you just try converting a wave file to MP3 format on a P4 3.0GHz and then try it on your old machine and then say that new CPUs are still not worth the cash.

Bottom line: horses for courses: just use what is best for you and don't complain when other people want to use something different.

4.77MHz to 4.0GHz in 10 years. Imagine the space year 2020 :) 
October 10, 2003 12:25:09 PM

You still don't need 100+ FPS. 60~90 FPS is more than enough for smoothness. A good mouse is more important than 250 FPS instead of 200

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
October 10, 2003 12:27:40 PM

>Also stupid. A computer is not an appliance.

Maybe not to you and me, but how many companies do you know that actually go through the hassle of upgrading cpu or motherboards on their desktops ? Pretty much every company will simply replace old PC's with new one's, because its cheaper than the time lost installing, troubleshooting, etc.

The same applies to a lot of individuals that just need their pc to get their work done, but don't have time, knowledge or desire to fiddle with it. When your car suffers some major break down, or just doesnt satisfy you any longer, do you put on your overall and start working on it, or do you sell it and a buy a new one ? In africa or Cuba they would call that stupid as well, they will just weld a new oilpan if they have to. It all boils down to how much your time is worth I guess.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
October 10, 2003 12:40:20 PM

The individuals that need to get their work done do not need an uber-fast computer. Any person that buys a top of the line computer and does not even bother about 'twiddiling' with it is throwing away money. Businesses are especially guilty. My university recently bought new Dell P4's for secretaries. You don't need new P4's to run office.

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
October 10, 2003 12:43:43 PM

I agree. Besides, anything above ~80 or so is a waste, as usually that's around the refresh rate of the monitor you're looking at.
I'm just saying that although 30FPS is quite playable, I can notice a difference between that and 60FPS personally..

Besides... Having high-end stuff gives me a bigger e-penis :wink:

---
<font color=red>The preceding text is assembled from information stored in an unreliable organic storage medium. As such it may be innacurate, incomplete, or completely wrong</font color=red> :wink:
October 10, 2003 12:56:00 PM

> ANY proc. above 1.5 Mhz would give you >60 FPS on
> the highest settings for any game I can think of.

Hmm... no. Starwars galaxies will max a 2ghz + 9700pro out. (I would say a 9800 pro, but I've not had the opportunity to test one of those in a system that was slower than 2.6ghz.)

Besides, 60 isn't optimal since dips will lower that under 30. A more realistic number is around 120, but by preference and appearance about 2x Refresh rate or any number over 200 seems like a better place to be.

> ALL i'm saying is any new CPU is more than
> sufficient for home use.

All I'm saying is, for *YOUR* use, not everyone has same needs as you.

Shadus<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by shadus on 10/10/03 09:14 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 10, 2003 12:58:07 PM

> I need a good video card, not a top-notch CPU.

Dead wrong. You need components of equal quality, having one out of line with the other is ignorant and a waste of time it bottlenecks the system... if you are going to 'waste' money buying a 9800 you damn well should 'waste' some more getting a processor to match it as best you can.

Shadus
October 10, 2003 1:00:02 PM

As would I, there is no good reason your computer shouldn't become more of an object of art and less of a lump of metal on the desktop.

Shadus
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
October 10, 2003 1:01:30 PM

>The individuals that need to get their work done do not
>need an uber-fast computer.

Hu ? why is that ? I know plenty of individuals or professionals that can use (or need) that kind of power, but don't even know how to add a harddisk. Those people include graphical artists (running PS, 3DS,..), scientists and researchers running matlab or coding mathematical simulations in fortran, engineers designing optical sensors, etc, etc. For them, a PC is just a tool, an appliance if you like, but they won't be happy with a duron or celeron.

> My university recently bought new Dell P4's for
>secretaries. You don't need new P4's to run office.

That only proves my point. Why do they buy P4's and not celerons ? Because they do not want to upgrade those machines any earlier than needed, and saving a few $$$ on a cheaper cpu will cost them more in the long run. Happens all the time. At my previous job, we all moved from P2-400's to 2.8 GHz P4s. When those P2's where purchased they where complete overkill for 99% of their users, but they lasted many years. Now, those P4s where complete overkill, even for me, but theyshould last another year or 3-5. Since rolling out and supporting new pc's is fricking expensive as is supporting mulitple versions when you are talking about several hundred desktops, a few dozen dollar for a slower cpu is a bad economy...

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
October 10, 2003 1:08:44 PM

God I hate that illrelevent and WRONG piece of bullsh!t info.

Read any of the dozen posts in the last few months regarding refresh rates, frame rates, and such before pulling utter bullsh!t out of thin air.

Shadus<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by shadus on 10/10/03 09:12 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 10, 2003 1:10:20 PM

> Also stupid. A computer is not an appliance.

Translation: I don't use my computer like this, so it's obviously wrong. Anything that varies from what I do couldn't potentially be correct for the person doing it.

Shadus<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by shadus on 10/10/03 09:12 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 10, 2003 1:12:48 PM

At the very beginning of this thread I excluded PROFESSIONALS so don't bring that in. Your PII at 350 Mhz would have lasted as long. and it's way cheaper(and better) to buy two mid-range comps. than one really expensive comp.
A 2.6 Mhz P4 (800) would last just as long as a 2.8 mhz CPU (800) and you could get three of them for the price of 3.2 Mhz.

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
October 10, 2003 1:16:32 PM

My, didn't somebody get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Saying things like that "God I hate that illrelevent and WRONG piece of bullsh!t info." makes you sound childish. I made a mistake and I've owned up to it. There is no reason for you to do a post like that.

Try and think before you start typing (and, yes, I am guilty of this too), it often helps avoid an unpleasant flame war.

Andy

There are lies, damn lies and statistics - Mark Twain.
October 10, 2003 1:19:16 PM

Stop putting words in my mouth. <b>Most</b> people don't buy uber-fast chips for any reason other than showing-off at the next LAN-party. Just like sports cars. I have nothing against this, but heated arguments and fanboy fanatisicm is ,I repeat, irrelevant.

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
October 10, 2003 1:30:21 PM

>At the very beginning of this thread I excluded
>PROFESSIONALS so don't bring that in.

Hmm, I thought you brought it up with the example of your secretaries getting P4's. Also, what is a pro and what is a home user ? A friend of mine is an architect, has 2 or 3 computers used both for home entertainment (gaming, kids, internet) and work (CAD). He is the type of customer that could buy a AFX or P4EE from Dell without worrying much about the price tag, and he sure as hell will never upgrade a cpu. He'll just move the PC to his wife and get himself a new one.

> Your PII at 350 Mhz would have lasted as long. and it's
>way cheaper(and better) to buy two mid-range comps. than
>one really expensive comp.

In a professional environment, I disagree. You have no idea how expensive it is to roll out new machines. The cost of the hardware is almost trivial compared to the cost of validating those machines, testing them, installing them, downtime of the users and/or nightwork for the technicians, reinstalling all the software, support calls from users complaining they forgot to install a certain app, or one or another device/program doesnt work on their new computer, etc, etc,. In many business situations the cost of the hardware is only a very small percentage of the cost of the software running on it, and the cost of the professional working on the machine, and the cost of the technician/support engineer support the machine. PC's are very cheap tools. At home, you could consider them expensive toys, and that changes the entire equation.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
October 10, 2003 1:30:54 PM

Frankly, Yes, Yes I did. All this week. I honestly don't care how it sounds, I'm tired of seeing that fscking arguement come up EVERY FSCKING TIME someone mentions wanting a high framerate. If you don't actually know what you are talking about learn something about it before you start telling people how it is... especially when anyone with half a brain who has played a computer game at ~30fps and ~60fps can tell you there is a massive difference.

Shadus
October 10, 2003 1:35:32 PM

Point taken. But try not to get on your high horse next time. ;) 

Andy

There are lies, damn lies and statistics - Mark Twain.
October 10, 2003 1:36:20 PM

Secretaries are not professionals. And I meant mostly home use.

<font color=blue>
A woman driving is like a <font color=yellow> star </font color=yellow>in the sky, you can see her, but she can't see you.
</font color=blue>
October 10, 2003 1:40:59 PM

Getting back to the original post, I agree with snorkius. I generally run a generation behind the most current most powerful systems. Okay, so I've just upgraded to a GeForce FX, but it is an FX5600, not the most powerful (is that the FX5900?), purely becuase I don't need that power.

In a few years (2-3 at least) I'll be looking to get a new computer, probably one of the medium speed AMD64 chips and maybe 2-4Gig of memory. (I do lots of Monte carlo calculations at home that need memory, and some of my games need that too). But as for getting the fastest rig around, I'll pass. I got burned on that when I got my K6-233 system, so I won;t be doing that in a hurry. (Mind you, that system is just going to be given to my parents, so you could say it was a good investment...)

Andy

There are lies, damn lies and statistics - Mark Twain.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Shielder on 10/10/03 09:44 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
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