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Newb needs help please!!

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October 28, 2003 3:19:18 AM

I hope this isn't too much, and I thank you for your help before I even get into this. I am going to build my first pc, and have read many guides and think I can handle it(plus you save lots of money right?). I have a little over a grand and I want to make a system that can efficiently download all types of files(like movies music games software), but I also want to be able to play the hottest games out at the moment. I'm not a harcore gamer and don't need the ati 9800 pro. I am encouraging all types of oppinions, rants, raves, and advice on what I should get, why, and why not. Honestly I don't know what most this [-peep-] means, I have been trying to figure it out as much as possible the last two weeks, but I definately need some pro advice before I drop a thousand dollars on something that could possibly not work.

this is what I have in mind so far

intel p4 800 fsb------170 bucks

512M ddr 400 ram(samsung?)----80 bucks

80 gig 7200 rpm 8Mb buffer(i've heard seagate is quiet)--80

nec dvd +/- R 4x-----110 bucks

intel or gigabyte MB---100 bucks

either antec quiet case or X-dreamer case with fan controller and temp display---100 bucks
will the antec with only two fans cool down this system?

NEC AccuSync 90 for a monitor-200 bucks
or a ghetto 19 inch for 150

ati 9500 pro, 9600 pro, fx 5200, fx 5600---depending on my cash I have left, from 100-200 bucks

this router so I can share my parents cable connection
http://3btech.net/siss2porcads.html

I know this is alot to ask, but I am a poor college student who can't afford to upgrade this for quite a while, and I can't afford to buy something that will break or not work. I can put the beast together if I figure out what to buy. Thanks!!!!!!

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a b à CPUs
October 28, 2003 4:42:37 AM

The 9500 Pro uses a far more powerful chip than the 9600 Pro, but at far lower clock rate. It hold only a slight edge. But the 9600 Pro uses far less power and produces far less heat, something to consider in a quiet system.

You should be able to get a P4 2.6C for around that price, get an 865 or 875 chipset board for best results, and use 2 256MB DIMMs to take adavantage of Dual Channel technology, which doubles the bandwidth of the memory.

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
October 28, 2003 8:49:23 AM

For "downloading all types of files" ou really don't need anything remotely high end; gaming on the other hand, could use a more powerfull system.

A few general thoughts; don't skimp on your monitor. You'll be looking at it all the time, and a good monitor is a much better investment than a system that is a few percent faster. Though I don't know either of your choices here, its good to see you seem to have gotten that priority right by choosing a branded 19" monitor.

Your second (or even first) priority should be stability, so also make sure you get a quality PSU and decent branded memory. Don't save a few bucks by going with no name products for either one of them.

As for your other components; I heard the same about seagate; but I couldnt find on in stock at my store, so I went with Maxtor, and I must say my new 80 GB Maxtor is also a pleasant surprise as its pretty much dead quiet. Only time I hear it, is when its spinning up. Can't hear the disk activity, got to look at the LED :) 

For your videocard, I would pick a 9500 pro if you can still find one. Its an awesome card for a bargain price. I would not recommend a FX5200; a GF4 would be faster on directX 8 for less money, and the FX5200 would be too slow to run upcoming DirectX 9 titles with all bells and whistles on anyway. The FX5600 (now replaced by the 5700 I think) could be worth looking at though.

Finally, you could save a few bucks by going for an AMD Athlon XP 2600+. Gaming performance would be roughly equal to a P4 2.6 for ~$100 less. Downside is, you won't be able to upgrade a socket A board much further (beyond 3200+), whereas a 865/875 board should take prescotts to ~3.6 GHz if intel gets its act together.

good luck whatever you end up buying !


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
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October 28, 2003 3:39:13 PM

bump this thread for more oppinions, thanks for the input so far peeps
October 28, 2003 4:34:56 PM

Motherboard - Asus P4P800 (Non-VM, Non Deluxe) - 108.00
Processor - Intel 2.4C 800 MHZ FSB - 172.00
Ram1 - Corsair CMX256A-3200C2 - 60.00
Ram2 - Corsair CMX256A-3200C2 - 60.00
Video Card - ATI 9500 128mb 8xAGP - 134.00
Hard Disk - Western Digital WD800JB 80GB 8MB 7200RPM - 82.00
Speakers - Juster 5d-107 7Pcs - 34.00
Case - Raidmax Model 208 10 Bay 350W PS - 43.00
CD-RW - Lite-On 52x24x52x - 40.00
Floppy - Teac 1.44 Floppy Drive - 12.00
Sound - Creative Audigy2 Non-Platinum - 70.00
KB/M - Logitech Optical Desktop KB/M - 28.00
Total - $843.00 Inc/S&H

Toss a decent 19" monitor in there and you have a pretty steady system that will be upgradeable for quite a while. (Most of these prices are lower now, but I'm to lazy to goto price watch and look them up.)

I agree with the above poster who commented on the monitor selection, a good monitor will last you two or three pc upgrade cycles. I don't hesitate to spend money on a monitor it's the only good 'investment' purchase you can make really on a pc.

Edit: If you get a dvd make SURE you get a really good one. Or wait a year or so and get it when you have more money. I like the sony DRU510A drives personally. They do both +/- R/RW... and do them well.

Shadus<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by shadus on 10/28/03 01:36 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 28, 2003 5:15:04 PM

do I really need a sound card? won't 6 channel motherboard sound be good enough? also how much are cables to hook the pc sound up to my home stereo speakers and stereo reciever.

also does anybody know how much a cable from my pc to my t.v. will cost?
October 28, 2003 7:11:24 PM

You definetly don't want to use your tv as a monitor. If you mean for playing dvd and such, the cable isn't expensive but you will need a vid card with tv-out. (try one of the all in wonders or a 4800 vivo)

As far as the sound goes, I've never been a big fan of onboard sound... various reasons but in the end quality and performance are the biggest two and depending on chipset they vary on both.

Shadus<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by shadus on 10/28/03 04:12 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 28, 2003 8:50:55 PM

well here's what I got. Newegg was having a sale, so I jumped on alot of stuff real quick.

nec nd-1300a 4x dvd+/-R -111
2.6 gig p4 800Mhz 478p/512k ht rt -175
CORSAIR MEMORY 256MB PC3200 -92
Kb and mouse logitech cordless mx duo-75
hd 80GB WD 7200rpm 8mb wd800jb-73.50
cdrw/dvd combo drive lite on -56
antec sonata piano black quiet mid tower case with antec power supply-108
MB asus p4s800 sis 648fx-79
ati radeon 9600 pro ez 128Mb ddr agp 8x tv out/dvi
with a software dvd playback player + s video cable($6)
upgraded to the retail box -$12
all together it was about 150
same monitor i mentioned above for 201

please tell me if something is not compatible or if I made a bad decision, cause I can still call and change the order if I need to

thanks for everyone's help
October 28, 2003 11:55:02 PM

bump this post

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ubiquity on 10/29/03 02:06 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 29, 2003 5:08:27 AM

bump
October 29, 2003 9:37:35 AM

Quote:
ati radeon 9600 pro ez 128Mb ddr agp 8x tv out/dvi


NO! NEVER! The EZ versions are clocked very low, far from what standard 9600 pro. Memory is set ONLY to 200DDR = 400Mhz! The performance hit is very high and not worth.

My advice: Take the Sapphire 9600 Pro Lite version or even the bulk one (free shipping). Lite version is boxed but without bundles (software), but is a really 9600 Pro. Bulk the is no package nor bundles. And the difference from EZ are only a few bucks.


Still looking for a <b>good online retailer</b> in Spain :frown:
October 29, 2003 2:41:39 PM

thank you very much sir, that's the kind of stuff I need to know.

<----calls to cancel order immediately
October 29, 2003 3:29:05 PM

I'm not sure about your selection of a mobo with a SiS chipset. To my knowledge the P4S800 mobo only supports single-channel memory which <i>will</i> painfully bottleneck your 800MHz FSB P4 as it's the most bandwidth-intensive of all P4s. I'd <i>highly</i> suggest getting a mobo with an 865PE chipset instead. (Such as the Asus P4P800.) This has dual-channel memory and will let your P4 run at it's optimum performance. However you'll need two sticks of RAM to run dual-channel.

If you don't mind using the P4S800 though then other than the already mentioned video card thing it looks fine to me. :) 

I have two side notes that might make your Sonata case experience easier though.

1) The Sonata is in my opinion a great case, but one of it's flaws is that it only <i>just</i> fits an ATX mobo. Motherboards with connectors that extend sideways instead of upwards from the mobo (such as what looks like a floppy port on the p4s800 that you chose) will make it difficult (not impossible, just difficult) to connect to because in the Sonata that port will be pressed up annoyingly close to the hard drive bays. Just something to keep in mind as you assemble the system. So you may want to plug that cable in <i>before</i> you mount the mobo to the case while you can still easily get to it.

2) Also the Sonata case instructions might be wrong for connecting the front-pannel audio connector. (Some of the instruction books are right and some aren't from what I can gather.) There is however a correction in a FAQ on Antec's website in case your instructions are wrong and that correction explains things just fine. :) 

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October 29, 2003 3:46:43 PM

I forgot to mention that I have 2x 256 of ram, so as soon as the mobo gets here I will return it and order the other one. thank you! Video card is being taken care of asap.
October 29, 2003 9:50:29 PM

I went ahead and cancled the ez radi 9600 pro, and ordered a regular 9500 pro from somewhere else. As for the mother board, I have to wait till it gets here and then just return to shipper. To replace the motherboard I ordered this mobo---MB E7205 P4G8X DELUXE/GD ASUS RTL (Qty=1,Price=79.99)
it has dual channel and I hope it doesn't suck cause I really don't want to change it, but if I have to I will. Please let me know if that one sucks as well, and if it does which one should I get for around 80 bucks?
October 30, 2003 3:11:15 AM

bump, I really need to know if I dicked it up again.

so please give me some peace of mind

ty
October 30, 2003 4:47:31 PM

Any ideas or oppinions about the new motherboard, is it ok or what?
October 30, 2003 5:56:02 PM

Your new mobo selection is even worse. :( 
The E7205 chipset on it only supports up to a 533MHz FSB which means that your new P4C with an 800MHz FSB won't work in it. Plus the E7205 chipset only runs up to PC2100 RAM.

A limit of 80 bucks is pretty harsh. I'd say try the MSI Neo2-LS, the ABit IS7-E, or maybe even the Asus P4P800S (my preference on the suggestion is in that order) for around $90. It's really hard to find a good i865PE motherboard for so cheap.

Otherwise maybe you could try to catch a hold of a refurbished motherboard. Some people have good luck with them. Some don't. It's kind of a gamble as far as I can tell.

<pre><b><font color=red>I've always wondered why people liken the taste of blood to copper.
It tastes much more like iron to me.
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October 30, 2003 6:35:25 PM

damn that blows

I am currently in debt on my parents credit card versus how much cash I have handed them. I can probably get a small loan of say 50 bucks though. What is the best mobo I can get for 120-130 roughly? I need on board sound, the router capabilities built in, dual channel memory, and 2.6c 800fsb compatibilities.
October 30, 2003 7:07:37 PM

I could be wrong, but I think that all of the ones that I suggested before supported 800MHz FSB, dual-channel DDR400, had onboard 5.1 (6 channel) sound (not sure of quality though) and had 10/100Mb ethernet onboard.

For a hundred bucks (give or take) though you could go with a fully-fledged uncut Asus P4P800 or ABit IS7 motherboard. Both are pretty highly recommended around here.

Given your case (so to speak) I'd personally recommend the Asus P4P800 over the ABit IS7 because those sideways-extending IDE ports on the ABit IS7 will be a little harder to work with in the Sonata case than the ones that face straight up on the Asus P4P800. And the Asus P4P800 has a nicely sized fanless heatsink which means no northbridge fan noise. And I know that the Sonata can cool that well. :) 

<pre><b><font color=red>I've always wondered why people liken the taste of blood to copper.
It tastes much more like iron to me.
<- :evil:  - :evil:  - :evil:  - :evil:  - :evil:  -></font color=red></b></pre><p>
October 30, 2003 7:14:22 PM

<-----orders p4p800
October 30, 2003 7:17:37 PM

ok before I order it this is the one, correct?

http://secure.newegg.com/app/specification.asp?item=13-...


and this mother board will let me connect the audio to my home reciever and speakers with the correct cable?
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ubiquity on 10/30/03 04:20 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 30, 2003 7:32:44 PM

Quote:
ok before I order it this is the one, correct?

http://secure.newegg.com/app/specification.asp?item=13-...

Yep. That be the one. :) 

Quote:
and this mother board will let me connect the audio to my home reciever and speakers with the correct cable?

Yep.

<pre><b><font color=red>I've always wondered why people liken the taste of blood to copper.
It tastes much more like iron to me.
<- :evil:  - :evil:  - :evil:  - :evil:  - :evil:  -></font color=red></b></pre><p>
October 30, 2003 7:37:46 PM

I pledge allegiance to thee. lmao.

Ok last question I promise, are the cheap sound cards for 20-30 bucks going to beat the onboard sound, or is there really no difference. If it's worth it, is this the one to get for 30 bucks?

Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live! Dolby Digital 5.1 Sound Card MODEL SB0226 - OEM
October 30, 2003 7:43:15 PM

Quote:
I pledge allegiance to thee. lmao.

Just glad to be of help. I must have researched parts for months before I bought mine last July. :)  I know how frustrating it can be.

Quote:
Ok last question I promise, are the cheap sound cards for 20-30 bucks going to beat the onboard sound, or is there really no difference. If it's worth it, is this the one to get for 30 bucks?

No way. I'd imagine that the sound on the P4P800 is just like the sound on the P4P800 Deluxe (which I have in my system) and it rocks. Frankly, I haven't heard a sound card yet that can beat it. Onboard features are getting pretty kick-arse these days if you know how to shop. :)  So no dinky 30 buck sound card will beat it. Don't waste the money. :) 

And enjoy. :) 

<pre><b><font color=red>I've always wondered why people liken the taste of blood to copper.
It tastes much more like iron to me.
<- :evil:  - :evil:  - :evil:  - :evil:  - :evil:  -></font color=red></b></pre><p>
!