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New Oem rules only applies to multi packs not single oem v..

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Anonymous
September 3, 2005 3:37:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"OEM system builder software packs are intended for PC and
server manufacturers or assemblers ONLY. They are not intended
for distribution to end users. Unless the end user is actually
assembling his/her own PC, in which case, that end user is considered
a system builder as well."



From reading the above provided by another mvp. This only applies to
packs. Packs is more than one. This rule only applies if you get
the multiple oem disk not a single oem disk.


I have rebuilt a Compaq system-so that make me a system builder.


Greg Ro
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 4:00:46 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

See the following:

"OEM versions are intended for system builders only and
cannot be transferred to another PC once it is installed.
Purchasers of this software are required to comply with
the terms of the System Builder License, including responsibility
for providing all end-user support."

Ref: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1683...

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"GregRo" wrote:

| "OEM system builder software packs are intended for PC and
| server manufacturers or assemblers ONLY. They are not intended
| for distribution to end users. Unless the end user is actually
| assembling his/her own PC, in which case, that end user is considered
| a system builder as well."
|
|
|
| From reading the above provided by another mvp. This only applies to
| packs. Packs is more than one. This rule only applies if you get
| the multiple oem disk not a single oem disk.
|
|
| I have rebuilt a Compaq system-so that make me a system builder.
|
|
| Greg Ro
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 5:26:11 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
> See the following:
>
> "OEM versions are intended for system builders only and
> cannot be transferred to another PC once it is installed.
> Purchasers of this software are required to comply with
> the terms of the System Builder License, including responsibility
> for providing all end-user support."
>
> Ref: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1683...

And when a computer is upgraded to the point when it becomes "another
computer" is totally undefined in any actual agreement!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
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Anonymous
September 3, 2005 5:26:12 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

*Grin*

This is one of the few times I agree with your Kurt.

At what point have you stopped upgrading ONE computer, and moved to having
another computer?

Matt Gibson - GSEC

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:%23YNXWyKsFHA.260@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
>> See the following:
>>
>> "OEM versions are intended for system builders only and
>> cannot be transferred to another PC once it is installed.
>> Purchasers of this software are required to comply with
>> the terms of the System Builder License, including responsibility
>> for providing all end-user support."
>>
>> Ref: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1683...
>
> And when a computer is upgraded to the point when it becomes "another
> computer" is totally undefined in any actual agreement!
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 5:26:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

When you replace the motherboard with a totally different motherboard.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User


"Matt Gibson" wrote:

> At what point have you stopped upgrading ONE computer, and moved to having
> another computer?
>
> Matt Gibson - GSEC
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 5:26:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:

> When you replace the motherboard with a totally different motherboard.
>

Let's stop beating around the bush on this. Bruce Chambers
has spoken and I respect his opinion and interpretation far
more. The problem with these forums today is that there is
a dearth of experience and understanding. Where are all of
the old-time MCSE's and MCP's? It was a gross error on MS's
part when it pushed MVP's above them.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 5:26:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Carey,

Does MS have a document where it states that?

So, just because my motherboard has died, and I can no longer find the same
motherboard, I can no longer legally use the OEM copy of windows?

Matt Gibson - GSEC

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <mrxp2004@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:A98F3C13-1310-4DC1-A186-DA1735E2B804@microsoft.com...
> When you replace the motherboard with a totally different motherboard.
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows XP - Shell/User
>
>
> "Matt Gibson" wrote:
>
>> At what point have you stopped upgrading ONE computer, and moved to
>> having
>> another computer?
>>
>> Matt Gibson - GSEC
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 5:46:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Matt Gibson wrote:
> *Grin*
>
> This is one of the few times I agree with your Kurt.
>
> At what point have you stopped upgrading ONE computer, and moved to
> having another computer?
>
> Matt Gibson - GSEC

Personally, I define my computer as my computer, and it never becomes
another computer, no matter what components I change.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 6:41:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

It's not a matter of interpretation, its a matter of fact.

My information is factual based on information
obtained from the Microsoft System Builder web site.
They have a newsgroup dedicated to OEM questions,
moderated by Microsoft employees knowledgeable with
OEM licensing and rules.

I am a registered System Builder and understand the rules,
the System Builder and OEM licensing agreements. If a
questions arises concerning the agreements, I ask the
Microsoft employee OEM professionals for advice.

Anyone else "interpreting" the agreements are doing so
at there own risk of being incorrect and disseminating
misinformation.

If you have a further questions, please consult the
OEM System Builders web site (registration required).
http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid...

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"GHalleck" wrote:

| Let's stop beating around the bush on this. Bruce Chambers
| has spoken and I respect his opinion and interpretation far
| more. The problem with these forums today is that there is
| a dearth of experience and understanding. Where are all of
| the old-time MCSE's and MCP's? It was a gross error on MS's
| part when it pushed MVP's above them.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 7:11:55 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

If you installed the "generic" OEM Microsoft Windows XP version,
and your motherboard died, you can replace the motherboard,
and activate Windows XP via the phone method to obtain a new
activation code at no charge.

If you have a "branded" manufacturer's motherboard running
a "branded" (i.e. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc) version of Windows XP,
then, unfortunately, your "branded" OEM license is no longer
valid and you'll have to acquire a new Windows XP license.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Matt Gibson" wrote:

| Does MS have a document where it states that?
|
| So, just because my motherboard has died, and I can no longer find the same
| motherboard, I can no longer legally use the OEM copy of windows?
|
| Matt Gibson - GSEC
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 7:55:40 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

*nod*

That's a big difference in my mind.

Matt Gibson - GSEC

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:o l3q%23OMsFHA.1864@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> If you installed the "generic" OEM Microsoft Windows XP version,
> and your motherboard died, you can replace the motherboard,
> and activate Windows XP via the phone method to obtain a new
> activation code at no charge.
>
> If you have a "branded" manufacturer's motherboard running
> a "branded" (i.e. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc) version of Windows XP,
> then, unfortunately, your "branded" OEM license is no longer
> valid and you'll have to acquire a new Windows XP license.
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows XP - Shell/User
> Microsoft Newsgroups
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Matt Gibson" wrote:
>
> | Does MS have a document where it states that?
> |
> | So, just because my motherboard has died, and I can no longer find the
> same
> | motherboard, I can no longer legally use the OEM copy of windows?
> |
> | Matt Gibson - GSEC
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 8:02:44 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

This is one of the many times I agree with you Kurt ;-)))

Personally, I define my computer as my computer, and it never becomes
> another computer, no matter what components I change.

Anyway, a question. Looks like my integrated graphics, sound and ethernet
was fried in a surge and I have to replace my motherboard. I recently
downloaded Microsoft Antispyware and did the validate your copy of Windows
thing. Will changing my motherboard affect my copy of XP Pro ???

Thanks!!!

MAK.


"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:%23t9fx9KsFHA.1032@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Matt Gibson wrote:
> > *Grin*
> >
> > This is one of the few times I agree with your Kurt.
> >
> > At what point have you stopped upgrading ONE computer, and moved to
> > having another computer?
> >
> > Matt Gibson - GSEC
>
> Personally, I define my computer as my computer, and it never becomes
> another computer, no matter what components I change.
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 8:02:45 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

If you installed the "generic" OEM Microsoft Windows XP version,
and your motherboard died, you can replace the motherboard,
and activate Windows XP via the phone method to obtain a new
activation code at no charge.

If you have a "branded" manufacturer's motherboard running
a "branded" (i.e. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc) version of Windows XP,
then, unfortunately, your "branded" OEM license is no longer
valid and you'll have to acquire a new Windows XP license.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"webejammin" wrote:

| Anyway, a question. Looks like my integrated graphics, sound and ethernet
| was fried in a surge and I have to replace my motherboard. I recently
| downloaded Microsoft Antispyware and did the validate your copy of Windows
| thing. Will changing my motherboard affect my copy of XP Pro ???
|
| Thanks!!!
|
| MAK.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 8:24:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

It's a Gateway, so I presume a "branded" motherboard. So exactly what does
this mean? I no longer will be able to receive Windows Updates, etc. Do I
have to acquire a new Windows XP license. Does acquiring a new license mean
purchasing one? I would appreciate if you would elaborate and explain my
options.

Many Thanks!!!

MAK.


"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23RZHtPMsFHA.3352@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> If you installed the "generic" OEM Microsoft Windows XP version,
> and your motherboard died, you can replace the motherboard,
> and activate Windows XP via the phone method to obtain a new
> activation code at no charge.
>
> If you have a "branded" manufacturer's motherboard running
> a "branded" (i.e. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc) version of Windows XP,
> then, unfortunately, your "branded" OEM license is no longer
> valid and you'll have to acquire a new Windows XP license.
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows XP - Shell/User
> Microsoft Newsgroups
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
>
> "webejammin" wrote:
>
> | Anyway, a question. Looks like my integrated graphics, sound and
ethernet
> | was fried in a surge and I have to replace my motherboard. I recently
> | downloaded Microsoft Antispyware and did the validate your copy of
Windows
> | thing. Will changing my motherboard affect my copy of XP Pro ???
> |
> | Thanks!!!
> |
> | MAK.
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 8:24:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

If you have a Gateway PC that came preinstalled with a Gateway Windows XP
operating system, and your motherboard died, your Gateway Windows XP license
will only remain valid if you installed a Gateway motherboard replacement.

If you were to install a different motherboard, then the license effectively dies
with the Gateway motherboard and you'll have to purchase a new, conventional
version of Windows XP and proceed with a "repair install".

Example:

Microsoft Windows XP HOME Edition With Service Pack 2 - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1683...

Changing a Motherboard or Moving a Hard Drive with XP Installed
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/moving_xp.html

How to Perform a Windows XP Repair Install
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"webejammin" wrote:

| It's a Gateway, so I presume a "branded" motherboard. So exactly what does
| this mean? I no longer will be able to receive Windows Updates, etc. Do I
| have to acquire a new Windows XP license. Does acquiring a new license mean
| purchasing one? I would appreciate if you would elaborate and explain my
| options.
|
| Many Thanks!!!
|
| MAK.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 8:54:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:
> It's not a matter of interpretation, its a matter of fact.
>
> My information is factual based on information
> obtained from the Microsoft System Builder web site.
> They have a newsgroup dedicated to OEM questions,
> moderated by Microsoft employees knowledgeable with
> OEM licensing and rules.
>
> I am a registered System Builder and understand the rules,
> the System Builder and OEM licensing agreements. If a
> questions arises concerning the agreements, I ask the
> Microsoft employee OEM professionals for advice.
>
> Anyone else "interpreting" the agreements are doing so
> at there own risk of being incorrect and disseminating
> misinformation.
>
> If you have a further questions, please consult the
> OEM System Builders web site (registration required).
> http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid...

Did non-registered System Builders EVER agree to be held to what that
site says?

If not, then you're interpreting for System Builders that they must
follow rules they never agreed is disseminating misinformation.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 8:54:15 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Many Thanks for the advice... I intended to call Gateway for the
replacement, but had looked else where, the difference in cost is nominal
and certainly not worth the hassle of using another board.

MAK.


"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:eu5HxZMsFHA.2588@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> If you have a Gateway PC that came preinstalled with a Gateway Windows XP
> operating system, and your motherboard died, your Gateway Windows XP
license
> will only remain valid if you installed a Gateway motherboard replacement.
>
> If you were to install a different motherboard, then the license
effectively dies
> with the Gateway motherboard and you'll have to purchase a new,
conventional
> version of Windows XP and proceed with a "repair install".
>
> Example:
>
> Microsoft Windows XP HOME Edition With Service Pack 2 - OEM
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1683...
>
> Changing a Motherboard or Moving a Hard Drive with XP Installed
> http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/moving_xp.html
>
> How to Perform a Windows XP Repair Install
> http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows XP - Shell/User
> Microsoft Newsgroups
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
>
> "webejammin" wrote:
>
> | It's a Gateway, so I presume a "branded" motherboard. So exactly what
does
> | this mean? I no longer will be able to receive Windows Updates, etc. Do
I
> | have to acquire a new Windows XP license. Does acquiring a new license
mean
> | purchasing one? I would appreciate if you would elaborate and explain my
> | options.
> |
> | Many Thanks!!!
> |
> | MAK.
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 9:11:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

webejammin wrote:
> It's a Gateway, so I presume a "branded" motherboard.

Yes.

> So exactly what
> does this mean?

Your present install is tied to info stored in your BIOS, and once
change Mobos, you will almost definitely need to activate your copy, and
be forced to activate by phone. More than likely before that happens,
you will need to perform a reinstall of some kind. Hopefully you got a
reinstall disk from Gateway, not a recovery image.

As for phone activation, you'll need to come up with a confincing story
about why you need to activate. The best one is that you slipstreamed
SP2 into your reinstall disk and that triggered activation.

> I no longer will be able to receive Windows Updates,
> etc.

Now we get into validation. I'm not certain how that will react. I
have the feeling that it will fail.

If it does, you can spend time and energy looking to get MS to fix it,
or you can ignore it, and directly download updates from MS, turn on
autoupdate, or disable the WGA ActiveX component.

> Do I have to acquire a new Windows XP license.

MS's answer is yes. Reality's answer is maybe.

> Does acquiring a
> new license mean purchasing one?

Hell yeah!

> I would appreciate if you would
> elaborate and explain my options.


If all you got is a recovery image, then you may have to buy a new copy
of XP, if you cannot find a friend that has a generic OEM Install CD
that you can make a copy of, and use your Product Key.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 9:42:47 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Really, what a crock of cr*p... Being in the islands the electricity comes
and goes like the rising and setting sun. UPS fails for some unknown reason
and my motherboard gets fried and now my *legitimate* copy of Window XP
might be like my motherboard. Anyhow, will follow Carey's advice and see how
Gateway deals with it. Otherwise, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

As we say in the islands... Tank's Mon (Kurt)

MAK.


"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:o X%23rQwMsFHA.3668@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> webejammin wrote:
> > It's a Gateway, so I presume a "branded" motherboard.
>
> Yes.
>
> > So exactly what
> > does this mean?
>
> Your present install is tied to info stored in your BIOS, and once
> change Mobos, you will almost definitely need to activate your copy, and
> be forced to activate by phone. More than likely before that happens,
> you will need to perform a reinstall of some kind. Hopefully you got a
> reinstall disk from Gateway, not a recovery image.
>
> As for phone activation, you'll need to come up with a confincing story
> about why you need to activate. The best one is that you slipstreamed
> SP2 into your reinstall disk and that triggered activation.
>
> > I no longer will be able to receive Windows Updates,
> > etc.
>
> Now we get into validation. I'm not certain how that will react. I
> have the feeling that it will fail.
>
> If it does, you can spend time and energy looking to get MS to fix it,
> or you can ignore it, and directly download updates from MS, turn on
> autoupdate, or disable the WGA ActiveX component.
>
> > Do I have to acquire a new Windows XP license.
>
> MS's answer is yes. Reality's answer is maybe.
>
> > Does acquiring a
> > new license mean purchasing one?
>
> Hell yeah!
>
> > I would appreciate if you would
> > elaborate and explain my options.
>
>
> If all you got is a recovery image, then you may have to buy a new copy
> of XP, if you cannot find a friend that has a generic OEM Install CD
> that you can make a copy of, and use your Product Key.
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 9:46:26 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <OJzBK3KsFHA.3424@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>,
mattg@blueedgetech.ca says...
> At what point have you stopped upgrading ONE computer, and moved to having
> another computer?

According to the OEM System builders site, and not the EULA, the
motherboard is defined as the "Computer" for determination of Upgrade.
The System Builder state permits changing a defective board with the
same or a different one if the same is not available.

As Kurt has been kind enough to point out - this is not in the EULA and
is not presented to the end-user.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 9:46:27 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Totally irrelevant. Would you expect Dell to support a customer who removes
a Dell motherboard and installs some other motherboard, then calls Dell for
support assistance related to a motherboard issue? That is exactly why OEM
licenses are a one-shot deal!

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Leythos" wrote:

> In article <OJzBK3KsFHA.3424@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>,
> mattg@blueedgetech.ca says...
> > At what point have you stopped upgrading ONE computer, and moved to having
> > another computer?
>
> According to the OEM System builders site, and not the EULA, the
> motherboard is defined as the "Computer" for determination of Upgrade.
> The System Builder state permits changing a defective board with the
> same or a different one if the same is not available.
>
> As Kurt has been kind enough to point out - this is not in the EULA and
> is not presented to the end-user.
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 2:17:03 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:

> It's not a matter of interpretation, its a matter of fact.
>
> My information is factual based on information
> obtained from the Microsoft System Builder web site.
> They have a newsgroup dedicated to OEM questions,
> moderated by Microsoft employees knowledgeable with
> OEM licensing and rules.
>
> I am a registered System Builder and understand the rules,
> the System Builder and OEM licensing agreements. If a
> questions arises concerning the agreements, I ask the
> Microsoft employee OEM professionals for advice.
>
> Anyone else "interpreting" the agreements are doing so
> at there own risk of being incorrect and disseminating
> misinformation.
>
> If you have a further questions, please consult the
> OEM System Builders web site (registration required).
> http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid...
>

Carey, I think I am significantly older than you and have been
a system builder far longer than you. You are entitled to your
own interpretation just as the next person. The problem you have
is that your ego is insufficient to accept the notion that you
wish to deal with the absolute. I warrant my products and if I
need to replace the motherboard
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 2:34:09 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:

> It's not a matter of interpretation, its a matter of fact.
>
> My information is factual based on information
> obtained from the Microsoft System Builder web site.
> They have a newsgroup dedicated to OEM questions,
> moderated by Microsoft employees knowledgeable with
> OEM licensing and rules.
>
> I am a registered System Builder and understand the rules,
> the System Builder and OEM licensing agreements. If a
> questions arises concerning the agreements, I ask the
> Microsoft employee OEM professionals for advice.

<<snipped>>

There are many of us who have contributed to these Microsoft
forums and know the regular participants. I have known of Bruce
Chambers longer than you. And his experience is respected. This
may be something you might never learn to earn.

Everything is open to interpretation. You really think that a
Microsoft employee has the education and training to understand
legalese? Right...you can defer to a Microsoft employee; me, I
ask my attorney and these agreements are written by attorneys
for other attorneys and not we engineer-MBA types, or whatever.
There are facts and they don't mean damn until someone decides
to have it arbitrated in a court of [civil] law.

You are the same as "anyone else 'interpreting' the agreements..."
and you provide, at your "...own risk of being incorrect and
disseminating misinformation."
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 2:43:23 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Carey Frisch [MVP] wrote:

> Totally irrelevant. Would you expect Dell to support a customer who removes
> a Dell motherboard and installs some other motherboard, then calls Dell for
> support assistance related to a motherboard issue? That is exactly why OEM
> licenses are a one-shot deal!
>

Correct...answer is totally irrelevant. Who wrote anything about
the example Dell replacing a Dell motherboard with anything else
but a Dell motherboard? Does Dell really replace a Dell motherboard
on a warranty repair job with anything else but a Dell motherboard?
And, isn't it antitrust for Microsoft to prevent Dell from honoring
its warranties and guarantees by replacing a motherboard with another
of its own? The statement: "OEM license are a one-shot deal" cannot
be sustained when the OEM, whomever it might be, is involved.
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 3:21:44 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <A98F3C13-1310-4DC1-A186-DA1735E2B804@microsoft.com>,
Carey Frisch [MVP] favored us with...
> When you replace the motherboard with a totally different motherboard.

That just happened, seven months after I got my computer, because the
old one fried. So I now have a different computer? Doesn't make sense
to me.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"And if you're afraid of butter, which many people are nowa-
days, (long pause) you just put in cream." --Julia Child
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 3:50:42 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <Ol3q#OMsFHA.1864@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>,
cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com says...
> If you installed the "generic" OEM Microsoft Windows XP version,
> and your motherboard died, you can replace the motherboard,
> and activate Windows XP via the phone method to obtain a new
> activation code at no charge.
>
> If you have a "branded" manufacturer's motherboard running
> a "branded" (i.e. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc) version of Windows XP,
> then, unfortunately, your "branded" OEM license is no longer
> valid and you'll have to acquire a new Windows XP license.

The second is NOT true - you may, at the vendors discretion, be issued a
new activation or new media for installation. The branded system can be
a different motherboard that is also branded or the same motherboard
that is also branded. It's completely up to the Vendor.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
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Anonymous
September 4, 2005 3:50:43 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Not true from major OEM's....Dell, HP, Compaq, etc.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User


"Leythos" wrote:

> In article <Ol3q#OMsFHA.1864@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>,
> cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com says...
> > If you installed the "generic" OEM Microsoft Windows XP version,
> > and your motherboard died, you can replace the motherboard,
> > and activate Windows XP via the phone method to obtain a new
> > activation code at no charge.
> >
> > If you have a "branded" manufacturer's motherboard running
> > a "branded" (i.e. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc) version of Windows XP,
> > then, unfortunately, your "branded" OEM license is no longer
> > valid and you'll have to acquire a new Windows XP license.
>
> The second is NOT true - you may, at the vendors discretion, be issued a
> new activation or new media for installation. The branded system can be
> a different motherboard that is also branded or the same motherboard
> that is also branded. It's completely up to the Vendor.
>
> --
>
> spam999free@rrohio.com
> remove 999 in order to email me
>
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 3:52:42 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <B1BA69CF-9145-4B4A-B6EB-21EA9E8DD1D4@microsoft.com>,
mrxp2004@nospamyahoo.com says...
> Totally irrelevant. Would you expect Dell to support a customer who removes
> a Dell motherboard and installs some other motherboard, then calls Dell for
> support assistance related to a motherboard issue? That is exactly why OEM
> licenses are a one-shot deal!

Look Carey - you don't listen.

The replacement of a Defective motherboard in a Dell computer may be
replaced with the same Dell board or, at the vendors discretion, they
may install a new/different motherboard from their choice of
motherboards.

If the end users does this without the vendors permission, then the end
user has violated their system warranty - which no one would expect the
vendor to continue to support - which would then have nothing to do with
Windows OS of any sort.

--

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Anonymous
September 4, 2005 4:12:46 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

So there can be no misunderstanding of the System Builders Site
information, I have copied and posted the info here:


Q. Microsoft recently made some changes to the OEM system builder
license and packaging. Can you provide a summary of these changes and
when they are effective?

A. We realize that software licensing is not an easy subject to
understand. That's why, at the request of system builders, we have made
some important changes to our OEM system builder licensing and
packaging. These changes are designed to give you greater flexibility in
acquiring and distributing Microsoft® Windows® XP and Microsoft Office
2003 software. The changes are summarized as follows:

Beginning in August 2005, new 1-packs will be available for Windows XP
and Microsoft Office 2003 (instead of the previous 3-pack minimums). The
1-pack will come in a padded envelope for North America locations and a
box similar to the 3-pack box for locations outside of North America.

In August 2005, there will be a new simplified license for OEM system
builder software and hardware. This license eliminates the previous non-
peripheral hardware language for Microsoft Windows XP, and requires that
Microsoft Office 2003 be preinstalled if the license pack is opened.

Also beginning in August 2005 there will be a new system builder-
specific Certificate of Authenticity (COA) label to help differentiate
system builder software from direct OEM products, as well as to curb
piracy and counterfeiting.

===========

Q. Can a PC with OEM Windows XP have its motherboard upgraded and keep
the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?

A. Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license
for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An upgrade of
the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal computer" to
which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be transferred
from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for
reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and
the license of new operating system software is required. If the
motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT need to
acquire a new operating system license for the PC.

The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the end-user
license agreement (EULA) and the support of the software covered by that
EULA. The EULA is a set of usage rights granted to the end-user by the
PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software as
installed on for that particular PC. The System Builder is required to
support the software on that original PC. Understanding that end users,
over time, upgrade their PC with different components, Microsoft needed
to have one base component "left standing" that would still define that
original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the "heart
and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other
than defect) a new PC is essentially created. The original System
Builder, therefore, can not be expected to support this new PC that they
in effect, did not manufacture.

===========

Q. My customer bought a new PC and wants to move their OEM software from
the old PC to the new one. Can't they do whatever they want with the
software?

A. The OEM software is licensed with the computer system on which it was
originally installed and is tied to that original machine. OEM licenses
are single-use licenses that cannot be installed on more than one
computer system even if the original machine is no longer in use. The
end user license agreement (EULA) accepted by the customer before they
use the software, states that the license may not be shared, transferred
to or used concurrently on different computers. The System Builder is
required to provide end-user support for the Windows license. A System
Builder can not support a license that has been moved from a PC they
manufactured to one that they did not =3F this is a fundamental reason why
OEM System Builder licenses can't be transferred.

===========

Q. If my customer asks me to upgrade his PC with new hardware
components, when does a new operating system need to be acquired? When
would the PC be considered to be "new"?

A. Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
on your customer's computer and the end user customer may maintain the
license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software, with
the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An
upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal
computer" to which Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be
transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or
replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been
created and the license of new operating system software is required. If
the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT need to
acquire a new operating system license for the PC.

===========

Q. What do I do if a customer returns a computer system that I sold them
but they have activated the OEM System Builder Windows XP Professional
software?

A. In this situation, we recommend:
If the returned PC can be re-sold to another end user without any
changes to the hardware components, you may re-sell the PC to another
end user. You will need to remove the activated software and install it
again as the "new" end user must see and accept the End User License
Agreement as well as experience Windows Welcome. The end user should not
have any problems using the same Product Key to activate the software
again because the computer system configuration hasn't changed.
If significant changes have occurred to the computer system's hardware
components you should remove the activated software, and re-install it.
The "new" end user must see and accept the End User License Agreement
and this way they can experience Windows Welcome. You will also need to
inform the "new" end user that the Windows XP software program was
activated by the original purchaser. Microsoft also recommends that you
inform the end user to use the telephone call center activation method
rather than the Internet method so that they may talk to the customer
service agent and explain what happened. The call center personnel have
been notified that this may happen and can re-activate the software
using the new PC hardware configuration data.

--

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Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:25:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <A9CE2A18-F1A5-46BC-AD71-55A8512CDC05@microsoft.com>,
mrxp2004@nospamyahoo.com says...
> Not true from major OEM's....Dell, HP, Compaq, etc.

I've had Dell replace motherboard with newer units because of Defect
without any issues.

--

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Anonymous
September 4, 2005 12:49:09 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:11:55 -0500, "Carey Frisch [MVP]"
<cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote:

>If you installed the "generic" OEM Microsoft Windows XP version,
>and your motherboard died, you can replace the motherboard,
>and activate Windows XP via the phone method to obtain a new
>activation code at no charge.
>
>If you have a "branded" manufacturer's motherboard running
>a "branded" (i.e. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc) version of Windows XP,
>then, unfortunately, your "branded" OEM license is no longer
>valid and you'll have to acquire a new Windows XP license.

You know, Carey, the US Constitution has a clause which DENIES
Congress the right to make laws which "grandfather" things, so I see
such a "license change" as being completely unconstitutional according
to the US Constitution. Microsoft must honor ALL licenses it sells or
HAS sold in the past, either DIRECTLY, as in the case of so-called
"generic OEM" copies of XP, or INDIRECTLY, as in the case of OEM
copies distributed by large system builders.

I mean, Microsoft just can't go and change an agreement ALREADY in
effect, and replace it with a DIFFERENT one. This makes no sense to
me as a normal human being. IF such is the case, SOMEONE needs to SUE
the pants off of Microsoft. THIS IS JUST NOT RIGHT and EQUITABLE,
especially since WE have KEPT our side of the agreement. Microsoft
can't go and SNATCH our operating systems away from us whenever it
decides it wants to (unless, of course, WE break the agreement FIRST.)

I was taught as a boy to HONOR my agreements, and KEEP MY WORD.
Was Bill Gates and Co.? Were YOU, Carey? If so, HOW in God's Name
can YOU go along with such a massive theft by Microsoft? As long as
YOU agree with this atrocity, YOU are JUST AS GUILTY as Microsoft.

MICROSOFT THE INDIAN-GIVER!! Woo Hoo!!

I mean, it bothered me A LITTLE when Microsoft broke its OEM
agreement, and started denying Internet activation for OEM software,
but when Microsoft starts messing with our SACRED agreements IN TOTO,
ITS TIME TO GET MAD AS HELL!!!

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
If you must reply via email, remove the obvious
from my email address before sending.
=======================================================
September 4, 2005 3:18:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:eu5HxZMsFHA.2588@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> If you have a Gateway PC that came preinstalled with a Gateway Windows XP
> operating system, and your motherboard died, your Gateway Windows XP
> license
> will only remain valid if you installed a Gateway motherboard replacement.
>
> If you were to install a different motherboard, then the license
> effectively dies
> with the Gateway motherboard and you'll have to purchase a new,
> conventional
> version of Windows XP and proceed with a "repair install".

IMHO the whole concept of OEM has changed so much as to make the whole deal
irrelevant.
e.g. :
Q. Can a PC with OEM Windows XP have its motherboard upgraded and keep
the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?

A. Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license
for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An upgrade of
the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal computer" to
which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be transferred
from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for
reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and
the license of new operating system software is required.


### Who was the rocket scientist that decided the "motherboard" was the
"PC" ?

If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT need to
acquire a new operating system license for the PC.

### OK, looks like "every" motherboard replacement will be because of a
"defect" :-)
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 3:18:23 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Sunny wrote:
> "Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:eu5HxZMsFHA.2588@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> If you have a Gateway PC that came preinstalled with a Gateway
>> Windows XP operating system, and your motherboard died, your Gateway
>> Windows XP license
>> will only remain valid if you installed a Gateway motherboard
>> replacement. If you were to install a different motherboard, then the
>> license
>> effectively dies
>> with the Gateway motherboard and you'll have to purchase a new,
>> conventional
>> version of Windows XP and proceed with a "repair install".
>
> IMHO the whole concept of OEM has changed so much as to make the
> whole deal irrelevant.
> e.g. :
> Q. Can a PC with OEM Windows XP have its motherboard upgraded and keep
> the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?
>
> A. Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware
> components on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain
> the license
> for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
> exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An upgrade
> of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal
> computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be
> transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or
> replaced for
> reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and
> the license of new operating system software is required.
>
>
> ### Who was the rocket scientist that decided the "motherboard" was
> the "PC" ?
>
> If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT
> need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC.
>
> ### OK, looks like "every" motherboard replacement will be because
> of a "defect" :-)

Yes, my old motherboard is defective in comparison to my new one.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
September 4, 2005 4:05:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

This makes me feel that if a person purchased a preinstalled
system he/she would be a fool.
I can see some big changes on the horizon with peoples choice of
operating system and general office applications.
I am on a fixed income and there is no way that I can afford
MSOffice and it is really _iffy_ for the next Windows to be
within my current budget.
$15 verses $550 is quickly becoming a _nobrainer_.
At one time you were even trying Fedora.

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d84060fb3e44a0b989e62@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
So there can be no misunderstanding of the System Builders Site
information, I have copied and posted the info here:


Q. Microsoft recently made some changes to the OEM system builder
license and packaging. Can you provide a summary of these changes and
when they are effective?

A. We realize that software licensing is not an easy subject to
understand. That's why, at the request of system builders, we have made
some important changes to our OEM system builder licensing and
packaging. These changes are designed to give you greater flexibility in
acquiring and distributing Microsoft® Windows® XP and Microsoft Office
2003 software. The changes are summarized as follows:

Beginning in August 2005, new 1-packs will be available for Windows XP
and Microsoft Office 2003 (instead of the previous 3-pack minimums). The
1-pack will come in a padded envelope for North America locations and a
box similar to the 3-pack box for locations outside of North America.

In August 2005, there will be a new simplified license for OEM system
builder software and hardware. This license eliminates the previous non-
peripheral hardware language for Microsoft Windows XP, and requires that
Microsoft Office 2003 be preinstalled if the license pack is opened.

Also beginning in August 2005 there will be a new system builder-
specific Certificate of Authenticity (COA) label to help differentiate
system builder software from direct OEM products, as well as to curb
piracy and counterfeiting.

===========

Q. Can a PC with OEM Windows XP have its motherboard upgraded and keep
the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?

A. Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license
for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An upgrade of
the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal computer" to
which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be transferred
from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for
reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and
the license of new operating system software is required. If the
motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT need to
acquire a new operating system license for the PC.

The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the end-user
license agreement (EULA) and the support of the software covered by that
EULA. The EULA is a set of usage rights granted to the end-user by the
PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software as
installed on for that particular PC. The System Builder is required to
support the software on that original PC. Understanding that end users,
over time, upgrade their PC with different components, Microsoft needed
to have one base component "left standing" that would still define that
original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the "heart
and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other
than defect) a new PC is essentially created. The original System
Builder, therefore, can not be expected to support this new PC that they
in effect, did not manufacture.

===========

Q. My customer bought a new PC and wants to move their OEM software from
the old PC to the new one. Can't they do whatever they want with the
software?

A. The OEM software is licensed with the computer system on which it was
originally installed and is tied to that original machine. OEM licenses
are single-use licenses that cannot be installed on more than one
computer system even if the original machine is no longer in use. The
end user license agreement (EULA) accepted by the customer before they
use the software, states that the license may not be shared, transferred
to or used concurrently on different computers. The System Builder is
required to provide end-user support for the Windows license. A System
Builder can not support a license that has been moved from a PC they
manufactured to one that they did not =3F this is a fundamental reason why
OEM System Builder licenses can't be transferred.

===========

Q. If my customer asks me to upgrade his PC with new hardware
components, when does a new operating system need to be acquired? When
would the PC be considered to be "new"?

A. Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
on your customer's computer and the end user customer may maintain the
license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software, with
the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An
upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal
computer" to which Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be
transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or
replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been
created and the license of new operating system software is required. If
the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT need to
acquire a new operating system license for the PC.

===========

Q. What do I do if a customer returns a computer system that I sold them
but they have activated the OEM System Builder Windows XP Professional
software?

A. In this situation, we recommend:
If the returned PC can be re-sold to another end user without any
changes to the hardware components, you may re-sell the PC to another
end user. You will need to remove the activated software and install it
again as the "new" end user must see and accept the End User License
Agreement as well as experience Windows Welcome. The end user should not
have any problems using the same Product Key to activate the software
again because the computer system configuration hasn't changed.
If significant changes have occurred to the computer system's hardware
components you should remove the activated software, and re-install it.
The "new" end user must see and accept the End User License Agreement
and this way they can experience Windows Welcome. You will also need to
inform the "new" end user that the Windows XP software program was
activated by the original purchaser. Microsoft also recommends that you
inform the end user to use the telephone call center activation method
rather than the Internet method so that they may talk to the customer
service agent and explain what happened. The call center personnel have
been notified that this may happen and can re-activate the software
using the new PC hardware configuration data.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 5:00:47 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Donald L McDaniel wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:11:55 -0500, "Carey Frisch [MVP]"
> <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you installed the "generic" OEM Microsoft Windows XP version,
>> and your motherboard died, you can replace the motherboard,
>> and activate Windows XP via the phone method to obtain a new
>> activation code at no charge.
>>
>> If you have a "branded" manufacturer's motherboard running
>> a "branded" (i.e. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc) version of Windows XP,
>> then, unfortunately, your "branded" OEM license is no longer
>> valid and you'll have to acquire a new Windows XP license.
>
> You know, Carey, the US Constitution has a clause which DENIES
> Congress the right to make laws which "grandfather" things, so I see
> such a "license change" as being completely unconstitutional according
> to the US Constitution. Microsoft must honor ALL licenses it sells or
> HAS sold in the past, either DIRECTLY, as in the case of so-called
> "generic OEM" copies of XP, or INDIRECTLY, as in the case of OEM
> copies distributed by large system builders.
>
> I mean, Microsoft just can't go and change an agreement ALREADY in
> effect, and replace it with a DIFFERENT one. This makes no sense to
> me as a normal human being. IF such is the case, SOMEONE needs to SUE
> the pants off of Microsoft. THIS IS JUST NOT RIGHT and EQUITABLE,
> especially since WE have KEPT our side of the agreement. Microsoft
> can't go and SNATCH our operating systems away from us whenever it
> decides it wants to (unless, of course, WE break the agreement FIRST.)
>
> I was taught as a boy to HONOR my agreements, and KEEP MY WORD.
> Was Bill Gates and Co.? Were YOU, Carey? If so, HOW in God's Name
> can YOU go along with such a massive theft by Microsoft? As long as
> YOU agree with this atrocity, YOU are JUST AS GUILTY as Microsoft.
>
> MICROSOFT THE INDIAN-GIVER!! Woo Hoo!!
>
> I mean, it bothered me A LITTLE when Microsoft broke its OEM
> agreement, and started denying Internet activation for OEM software,
> but when Microsoft starts messing with our SACRED agreements IN TOTO,
> ITS TIME TO GET MAD AS HELL!!!

PSML! Actually, MS is loosening up its interpretation of OEM System
Builder Licensing, though now, through no agreement by End Users, MS is
interpreting that all End Users that build their own computers into
System Builders.

As usual, MS is making their "licensing," and its interpretations
thereof so complicated, ambiguous, and arbitrary, that no average
consumer could possibly understand or legally held to any of it, no
matter what is agreed to.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 8:43:59 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <#KiPwpWsFHA.4044@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, bbunny@bqik.net
says...
> This makes me feel that if a person purchased a preinstalled
> system he/she would be a fool.

Why, as long as the license transfers with the box (and it clearly
does), the computer is good for anyone that buys it.

> I can see some big changes on the horizon with peoples choice of
> operating system and general office applications.
> I am on a fixed income and there is no way that I can afford
> MSOffice and it is really _iffy_ for the next Windows to be
> within my current budget.
> $15 verses $550 is quickly becoming a _nobrainer_.

Why, if you buy a used computer that was properly sold to you - meaning
the OEM licenses were included as they are permitted, then you have a
fully licensed computer for what ever cost you paid.

Where you run into problems is when the seller is not turning over the
licenses or some other licensing violation.

> At one time you were even trying Fedora.

As an I.T. Solutions provider I have to be knowledgeable on much, and
Linux is one of those great things that we can include in solutions or
as the solution base. Linux is not free, unless you don't value official
support, don't value your time, don't value the cost of the
learning/change curve for users and administrators.

While you can download and install Fedora and Open Office, if you want
support, other than vial forums and Usenet, you need to purchase Support
from the vendors - and it puts the cost close to Microsoft support
options too.

--

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Anonymous
September 5, 2005 2:00:11 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 08:49:09 -0700 in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, Donald L McDaniel favored us
with...
> You know, Carey, the US Constitution has a clause which DENIES
> Congress the right to make laws which "grandfather" things

Which clause would that be, please? If you're thinking of "ex post
facto law", then it doesn't mean what you think. I almost said it
means the opposite of what you think, but that's not quite true;
however, it's much closer to the opposite than to what you said.

I know the Constitution fairly well, and I don't know of any clause
that could have the interpretation you gave. Which clause are you
thinking of?

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"And if you're afraid of butter, which many people are nowa-
days, (long pause) you just put in cream." --Julia Child
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 4:42:04 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Frank wrote:
>
> This makes me feel that if a person purchased a preinstalled
> system he/she would be a fool.
> I can see some big changes on the horizon with peoples choice of
> operating system and general office applications.
> I am on a fixed income and there is no way that I can afford
> MSOffice and it is really _iffy_ for the next Windows to be
> within my current budget.

I've never been able to afford to buy a brand new car. Does that mean
the folks that make new cars have to build one that I can afford?


> $15 verses $550 is quickly becoming a _nobrainer_.
> At one time you were even trying Fedora.
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 6:17:58 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <MPG.1d8572e0ae304d679896f0@news.individual.net>,
the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm says...
> You also talk about the cost of Fedora. OTOH, there is a cost to
> Microsoft's never-ending stream of "free" updates. The IT department
> of even a medium-sized business, like my college, has to dedicate
> full-time people just to dealing with those updates, problems
> downloading them, and problems that occur after they've been loaded.

We probably support as many as a campus and don't have "full time"
people doing updates. In most cases we have a majority of machines set
to auto-update and make firewall excepts as MS rolls out new update
download sites (I wish they would stick with one group of servers for
that).

We've had few problems with updates to 2000/XP workstations, servers are
another thing.

> For myself, I see which way the wind is blowing. Microsoft clearly
> has an agenda to squeeze legitimate users harder and harder in the
> name of combating piracy. (Must ... resist ... analogy ... to ...
> Patriot ... Act.) Since Day 1, software I buy has been mine to move
> to a new computer when I trash the old one; now Microsoft has
> declared war on that long-standing practice. I am accelerating my
> cutover to open-source alternatives.

But, if you don't buy OEM you can uninstall and reinstall as often as
you want - only the OEM versions are limited. In the old days you didn't
buy OEM, you bought retail from vendors, even with a system, so we're
not talking the same thing here.

If I purchase Retail MS Office 2003 Prof, I can install a copy on my
Workstation and another on my Laptop and be properly licensed with the
one license. In OEM I'm not entitled to make the second install and that
license is tied to the first machine it's installed on. If I have Retail
I can uninstall and move as often as I want.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 1:35:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 22:00:11 -0400, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 08:49:09 -0700 in
>microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, Donald L McDaniel favored us
>with...
>> You know, Carey, the US Constitution has a clause which DENIES
>> Congress the right to make laws which "grandfather" things
>
>Which clause would that be, please? If you're thinking of "ex post
>facto law", then it doesn't mean what you think. I almost said it
>means the opposite of what you think, but that's not quite true;
>however, it's much closer to the opposite than to what you said.
>
>I know the Constitution fairly well, and I don't know of any clause
>that could have the interpretation you gave. Which clause are you
>thinking of?

Maybe I was mistaken about this. However, this STILL leaves Microsoft
as an agreement-breaker. The fact is, I made an agreement with
Microsoft when I purchased my Generic OEM copies of XP. They have NO
RIGHT (or at least, no NATURAL human right) to go and CHANGE the
agreement AFTER is has gone into effect (which it did the FIRST time I
pressed "F8" after beginning the installation from that disc.)

This agreement entitled me, as long as I kept the conditions of the
EULA, to the ability to ACTIVATE my OS EITHER via the Internet, OR via
toll-free telephone number. Microsoft's change of this clause AFTER
the original clause has gone into effect has BROKEN their original
agreement with me.

ANY clause in the EULA which purports to give Microsoft the right to
CHANGE their previous agreement with me after the agreement goes into
effect is NULL AND VOID, since such agreements are UNENFORCEABLE in a
court in the United States. However, Microsoft is STILL BOUND by the
ORIGINAL agreement we entered into when I pressed "F8" for the first
time

Microsoft supposedly made an agreement with me. This argreement is
for EVER, as long as I keep the conditions of the agreement.

Come on, Microsoft, get RIGHT with God, the law, and me. Honor your
ORIGINAL agreement with me, as I have honored it with you.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
If you must reply via email, remove the obvious
from my email address before sending.
=======================================================
September 5, 2005 2:44:10 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

If only it were so. And, do not forget the element of greed, which has
played a huge part in their methodology.


| Come on, Microsoft, get RIGHT with God, the law, and me. Honor your
| ORIGINAL agreement with me, as I have honored it with you.
|
| Donald L McDaniel
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 9:00:25 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Plato" <|@|.|> wrote in message
news:431bda49$1$219$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> Frank wrote:
>>
>> This makes me feel that if a person purchased a preinstalled
>> system he/she would be a fool.
>> I can see some big changes on the horizon with peoples choice of
>> operating system and general office applications.
>> I am on a fixed income and there is no way that I can afford
>> MSOffice and it is really _iffy_ for the next Windows to be
>> within my current budget.
>
> I've never been able to afford to buy a brand new car. Does that mean
> the folks that make new cars have to build one that I can afford?
>
>
>> $15 verses $550 is quickly becoming a _nobrainer_.
>> At one time you were even trying Fedora.
>
>

If it's in their business interest to do so, they will. Again far too much
talking with Socrates, Mr. Plato.

- Winux P
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 9:00:26 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:00:25 +1000, "Winux P" <winuxp@msnews.grp>
wrote:

>
>"Plato" <|@|.|> wrote in message
>news:431bda49$1$219$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>> Frank wrote:
>>>
>>> This makes me feel that if a person purchased a preinstalled
>>> system he/she would be a fool.
>>> I can see some big changes on the horizon with peoples choice of
>>> operating system and general office applications.
>>> I am on a fixed income and there is no way that I can afford
>>> MSOffice and it is really _iffy_ for the next Windows to be
>>> within my current budget.
>>
>> I've never been able to afford to buy a brand new car. Does that mean
>> the folks that make new cars have to build one that I can afford?
>>
>>
>>> $15 verses $550 is quickly becoming a _nobrainer_.
>>> At one time you were even trying Fedora.
>>
>>
>
>If it's in their business interest to do so, they will. Again far too much
>talking with Socrates, Mr. Plato.
>
>- Winux P
>
>

Yeh, well, apparently Microsoft doesn't think it IS in their business
interest to produce a product which every man or woman on the street
can afford.

Just remember, dude: MICROSOFT decides what's in their business
interest and what isn't, not YOU or the general public.

They have that right as citizens of the United States, which does not
decide who can make decisions for himself, as many Socialist
countries, including the EU, try to do. Are you a Socialist,. or a US
citizen?. If you are NOT a US Citizen, you have NO VOICE in the
making of US law or custom, and have NO voice in the way we do
business. If a Socialist US citizen, you better get BUSY, since
Socialists have VERY LITTLE say here. Not enough numbers to affect
the outcome of our elections.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
If you must reply via email, remove the obvious
from my email address before sending.
=======================================================
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 4:46:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Donald L McDaniel wrote:
>
> Maybe I was mistaken about this. However, this STILL leaves Microsoft
> as an agreement-breaker. The fact is, I made an agreement with
> Microsoft when I purchased my Generic OEM copies of XP. They have NO
> RIGHT (or at least, no NATURAL human right) to go and CHANGE the
> agreement AFTER is has gone into effect (which it did the FIRST time I
> pressed "F8" after beginning the installation from that disc.)

Sadly, "agreements" are changed all the time. For example. When signing
up to go to Virginia Tech it was noted that my 2 years of high school
Spanish were enough and I wouldn't have to take a foreign language in
college. The summer before my Senior year VaTech changed the requirement
and said I had to take a year of College Spanish or other foreign
language in order to graduate. This was NOT fair at all, but I had to
deal with it to graduate.

It was a good real life lesson in the way the world works, I guess.


--
http://www.bootdisk.com/
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 12:20:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On 7 Sep 2005 00:46:01 -0500, Plato <|@|.|> wrote:

>Donald L McDaniel wrote:
>>
>> Maybe I was mistaken about this. However, this STILL leaves Microsoft
>> as an agreement-breaker. The fact is, I made an agreement with
>> Microsoft when I purchased my Generic OEM copies of XP. They have NO
>> RIGHT (or at least, no NATURAL human right) to go and CHANGE the
>> agreement AFTER is has gone into effect (which it did the FIRST time I
>> pressed "F8" after beginning the installation from that disc.)
>
>Sadly, "agreements" are changed all the time. For example. When signing
>up to go to Virginia Tech it was noted that my 2 years of high school
>Spanish were enough and I wouldn't have to take a foreign language in
>college. The summer before my Senior year VaTech changed the requirement
>and said I had to take a year of College Spanish or other foreign
>language in order to graduate. This was NOT fair at all, but I had to
>deal with it to graduate.
>
>It was a good real life lesson in the way the world works, I guess.

Plato, if you can't see the difference between a school changing its
admission policies and Microsoft refusing to honor contracts it made
with its paying customers, I really feel sorry for you.

Now, if you had been PROMISED IN WRITING that your Spanish would be
enough, and you would not have to take a foreign language (almost
always a requirement to graduate in the vast majority of colleges and
universities of all kinds), and you had already paid for your tuition,
then I could see that there might be a resemblence between the two
(but not much--if I'm not mistaken, most schools reserve the right to
change graduation requirements at any time.)

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread.
If you must reply via email, remove the obvious
from my email address before sending.
=======================================================
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 4:25:53 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On 7 Sep 2005 00:46:01 -0500 in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,
Plato favored us with...
> When signing
> up to go to Virginia Tech it was noted that my 2 years of high school
> Spanish were enough and I wouldn't have to take a foreign language in
> college. The summer before my Senior year VaTech changed the requirement
> and said I had to take a year of College Spanish or other foreign
> language in order to graduate.

I'm not saying it didn't happen the way you say, but it sounds
unusual.

Normally colleges change programs, particularly graduation
requirements, a certain number of years ahead so that students
already enrolled can graduate according to their original
requirements.

It it possible that maybe you didn't understand, that you thought the
requirement was effective for everyone but in fact it was effective
only for entering freshmen or maybe sophomores? As I say, I wasn't
there so I don't know your specific case, but that's the usual thing.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"And if you're afraid of butter, which many people are nowa-
days, (long pause) you just put in cream." --Julia Child
!