TFTC hole protector, $45 ???

[Taxman]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

This seems a bit steep for a hole protector. I have got most others for no
more than $20 maybe $25. Is this the best price everyone knows? I do like
the Cliffy, great product and covers the wear nice, but $45 for a piece of
metal seems a bit much.

- Dave

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

wasn't there a TAF a couple months ago that had like 40 games on it,
and it STILL had some wear on the chair hole.....
I know this sounds extreme, but what about mortising the protector into
the playfield??? or would that just cause the new lip to wear.....

 

[BLACKTIGER]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

when I get my TAF I


> will be ordering a protector even if the game does not need one. -->


There is no such TAf if it had been operated. Cliffy protectors are
super
mixture of a great craftsmanship, sorely needed product professionally
built
and a genuinely nice and caring guy all wrapped into 1.

Adi


I can hope right :+)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I can speak to the time and expense involved in the prototyping of each
of his protectors. I provided the initial templates for the JP
protectors, and have tested two separate versions of three prototypes.
I know another collector has visited Cliffy with his JP as well, to
test fit protectors, and give Cliffy some more measurements. All told,
this has been going, off and on, for two months! I now have a total of
6 hand-crafted prototypes at my house, and have probably spent 10 hours
on removing parts, testing protectors, taking pictures, and describing
my findings back to Cliffy.

I can only imagine the amount of time Cliffy has spent trying to make
sense of my pictures, templates and descriptions, actually cutting,
bending and sanding by hand each prototype, going to the post office to
mail me the new sets, e-mailing me questions to clarify what needs to
be done to fit them.... and so on!

Once they are done, then HE gets to take the risk that they will sell,
so that he can recoup at least some of his development time. At $40,
he's not making much per protector. If you include the sunk cost I
described above, he could make more per hour working at a McDonalds...

Thank you, Cliffy, for helping out our hobby!

Gerry Manis.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

No, it's $40 and if you understood the labor involved you wouldn't be
nearly as critical. I make every one of these by hand. The really huge
protectors like TFTC, GNR, MB etc also force me to waste a LOT of metal
in their making.

Taxman wrote:
> This seems a bit steep for a hole protector. I have got most others for no
> more than $20 maybe $25. Is this the best price everyone knows? I do like
> the Cliffy, great product and covers the wear nice, but $45 for a piece of
> metal seems a bit much.
>
> - Dave
>
>
>

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Do you need it ? If so $45 is a lot cheaper than a new playfield and
swapping all the parts. LTG

"Taxman" <NOSPAMdavid.tkacs@snet.net> wrote in message
news:ActGe.900$gQ5.141@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> This seems a bit steep for a hole protector. I have got most others for
no
> more than $20 maybe $25. Is this the best price everyone knows? I do
like
> the Cliffy, great product and covers the wear nice, but $45 for a piece of
> metal seems a bit much.
>
> - Dave
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hey Dave Cliffy's Right, I had a customers Addams Family that had a
Really large area of wear around the Electric chair. The first one I
bought was not big enough and I had a deadline- so made my own , It was
a PITA and took a while to make just the diagram and holes so I knew
when I cut it it would line up and it has to be cut and bent in a
certain way that you have to use a large piece of metal, Gladly pay the
40.00 if I had to do it again. Besides Cliffy Is a great guy and his
products are an asset to the hobby.
Rob

Cliffy wrote:
> No, it's $40 and if you understood the labor involved you wouldn't be
> nearly as critical. I make every one of these by hand. The really huge
> protectors like TFTC, GNR, MB etc also force me to waste a LOT of metal
> in their making.
>
> Taxman wrote:
> > This seems a bit steep for a hole protector. I have got most others for no
> > more than $20 maybe $25. Is this the best price everyone knows? I do like
> > the Cliffy, great product and covers the wear nice, but $45 for a piece of
> > metal seems a bit much.
> >
> > - Dave
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Cliffy - CARGPB2
> A passion for pinball!
> http://www.passionforpinball.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Make one yourself then... Not like Cliffy is getting rich of them.

John!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I have to disagree with you. When I look at Cliffy's protectors,
knowing that they are made by hand, I often wonder how he can sell them
so cheap. I have to believe that bigger protectors take more time and
use more material. I think there is a lot more service to the hobby
than profit in his pricing structure.

Hand made custom parts constructed of quality materials do not come
usually come that cheap in any business or hobby. I know that I could
not make the parts the Cliffy does regardless of the time available.
Perhaps you could, and that is always an alternative. If it is not,
then you have to decide how important covering the damage and
protecting the playfield is to you.

Each person has their own price point and knows what they feel is fair
for their products, but I have personally never thought of Cliffy's
prices as being high relative to the effort expended and the value
received.

Ron


Taxman wrote:
> This seems a bit steep for a hole protector. I have got most others for no
> more than $20 maybe $25. Is this the best price everyone knows? I do like
> the Cliffy, great product and covers the wear nice, but $45 for a piece of
> metal seems a bit much.
>
> - Dave

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Agreed! It's a hell of allot cheaper than spending the 30+ hours
pulling/installing the pf not to mention the $200+ getting the hole
fixed and cleared by one of the pro's out there. Not to mention all of
those priceless ramps that he protects.

Cliffy does great work on all of his protectors, they fit like a glove
and for the price you can't beat them.

Steve

 

[BLACKTIGER]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I thought that the price was a lot when I bought it for my TFTC but
when I received the protector, installed it and played the first game,
I knew it was money WELL spent. Heck about a month later I ordered
another for my BSD. On top of that Cliffy even remembered me and asked
how I liked the protector. Now granted my street name is unique and
thats maybe how he remembered but hey he did and when I get my TAF I
will be ordering a protector even if the game does not need one. Who
wants to look at a chewed up hole, when you can look at a beautifuly
crafted hole protector?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thats what I would be afraid of. Plus the fact that now you've made it
irreversible.

seymour-shabow@excite.com wrote:
> wasn't there a TAF a couple months ago that had like 40 games on it,
> and it STILL had some wear on the chair hole.....
> I know this sounds extreme, but what about mortising the protector into
> the playfield??? or would that just cause the new lip to wear.....
>

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

> but $45 for a piece of
> metal seems a bit much.

It is a bit much, if it were JUST a piece of metal. Cliffy's protectors are
hand made. I would pay more than $45 for my Cliffy's any day. Thanks for
protecting our pins Cliffy!

Skeets

 

[Dan]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I don't get it. People will spend thousands od dollars on games yet
complain about and item that costs $45 without really understanding the
time and effort it takes to make them. I am very glad that Cliffy
provides these and I get them for all my games and the ones I sell. In
the long run it's better than an insurance policy. Thanks for all the
great work Cliffy!!

Dan Heatherly

 

[Adi]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

when I get my TAF I
> will be ordering a protector even if the game does not need one. -->
There is no such TAf if it had been operated. Cliffy protectors are super
mixture of a great craftsmanship, sorely needed product professionally built
and a genuinely nice and caring guy all wrapped into 1.

Adi
www.txpinball.com


"BlackTiger" <caligallagher@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1122661117.382641.70960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I thought that the price was a lot when I bought it for my TFTC but
> when I received the protector, installed it and played the first game,
> I knew it was money WELL spent. Heck about a month later I ordered
> another for my BSD. On top of that Cliffy even remembered me and asked
> how I liked the protector. Now granted my street name is unique and
> thats maybe how he remembered but hey he did and when I get my TAF I
> will be ordering a protector even if the game does not need one. Who
> wants to look at a chewed up hole, when you can look at a beautifuly
> crafted hole protector?
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I used my game to assist Cliffy on making the TFTC hole protector and it
took a little time working from Maryland to California.
They are quality items and you generally pay for quality.
They are also in my TAF, MB, and BSD.
All play well and look great in the game.
He's also a class act.
Hope you got some rides on your bike lately.
JMO
--
Kevin in MD.

"Gerry Manis" <gerrymanis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122667028.298285.146310@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I can speak to the time and expense involved in the prototyping of each
> of his protectors. I provided the initial templates for the JP
> protectors, and have tested two separate versions of three prototypes.
> I know another collector has visited Cliffy with his JP as well, to
> test fit protectors, and give Cliffy some more measurements. All told,
> this has been going, off and on, for two months! I now have a total of
> 6 hand-crafted prototypes at my house, and have probably spent 10 hours
> on removing parts, testing protectors, taking pictures, and describing
> my findings back to Cliffy.
>
> I can only imagine the amount of time Cliffy has spent trying to make
> sense of my pictures, templates and descriptions, actually cutting,
> bending and sanding by hand each prototype, going to the post office to
> mail me the new sets, e-mailing me questions to clarify what needs to
> be done to fit them.... and so on!
>
> Once they are done, then HE gets to take the risk that they will sell,
> so that he can recoup at least some of his development time. At $40,
> he's not making much per protector. If you include the sunk cost I
> described above, he could make more per hour working at a McDonalds...
>
> Thank you, Cliffy, for helping out our hobby!
>
> Gerry Manis.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"Cliffy protectors are super
mixture of a great craftsmanship, sorely needed product professionally
built
and a genuinely nice and caring guy all wrapped into 1."


THIS SAYS IT ALL..

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I agree, they ARE cheap.

another thing is that Cliffy is the greatest to deal with. I had a bit
more wear on my AFM and he custom made mine with a 16th of an inch wider
"lip" on it. it looks great. greatly appreciated. Matt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I'm humbled yet again Thanks for all the support, guys. Knowing I've
contributed in even such a small way to keeping games playable makes me
feel good about what I do

Cliffy
A passion for pinball!
www.passionforpinball.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It's only too expensive if no one is buying them.

I'm sure Cliffy charges what it is worth for him to make them. If
there are buyers, then he has a fair price. If there were not enough
buyers, he would then possibly decide to drop the price at a loss or
not make them.

>From the buyer's point of view, however, it shouldn't be about how much
work went into making it. I'm not going to spend extra money on
something out of sympathy for the manufacturer, no matter how "nice"
the guy is. If I want/need the product, it's for me alone to decide if
it's worth it to me.

I've been struggling with a decision to spend $25 on a repro plastic
that's smaller than a deck of cards. Materials to make my own would
cost me less than $10, but I know I wouldn't be as satisfied with the
craftsmanship because of inexperience. Eventually, I'll probably buy
it because I know I couldn't make one any better.

Mark

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

moviereviews4fun@yahoo.com wrote:
<snip>
> From the buyer's point of view, however, it shouldn't be about how much
> work went into making it. I'm not going to spend extra money on
> something out of sympathy for the manufacturer, no matter how "nice"
> the guy is. If I want/need the product, it's for me alone to decide if
> it's worth it to me.
<snip>
>
> Mark

I've never asked for sympathy. Never. I merely explained the cost
factors because the guy asked. However, it's ludicrous to suggest that
people don't consider the workmanship of any product. Of course they do
and so do you. Do you buy things based on price alone ro do you weigh
quality, availability and other factors? But you're right. Don't like
'em? Don't buy 'em! Thanks for your opinions

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Cliffy wrote:
>
> I've never asked for sympathy. Never. <

My comments about sympathy were not directed at you, Cliffy. They were
directed at a general attitude I see a lot on these forums that if the
seller is a "great guy" the seller can sell whatever he wants (license
or no) for whatever price he wants, and his supporters will call it
fair. My point was simply that a sale is not complete until the BUYER
decides it's worth the money. That was what I was trying to say about
the plastic part I've been considering for $25. For a long time, I
didn't think it was worth it. The guy who made it is probably a great
guy, and I'm sure he is a good guy to deal with, but I still have to
decide if it's worth $25 to ME.

Your protectors are fairly priced because they fill a need within the
pinball community, your reputation is outstanding, and people are
willing to pay your prices.

Mark

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>I was not insulting the workmanship at all.

Just the price he charges.

>I just thought $20 for one that protects my $2,500 TAF is great,
>while $45 (where I priced it) for a TFTC that cost me $1,100 seemed a bit
>lopsided ( Less then 1% value of the game vs. more than 4%). But I guess I
>am thinking value of the game rather than work into each piece.

That's the thing, Cliffy isn't jacking up the price on popular games.
THAT is the part you should be amazed about. If he charged $50 for
every protector he made, would you complain then?

>This is actually a credit to you. Most places will hike a price because
>they know the end game is worth more. Like anything for a MM is inflated
>because they know you will pay for it.

So, why are we making comments about the TFTC? It might be double the
cost of other protectors, but you can be sure that this "piece of
metel" is priced the way it is for a reason.

Kirb

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Cheap!. Worth double that


>>Taxman wrote:
>>
>>>This seems a bit steep for a hole protector.